This question is for all those who say “Halo need to evolve” “Halo needs to replicate the success of other shooters” and so on.
How many more games does 343i need to release, adopting this form of “evolution,” before you guys see what sensible people have been saying.
Halo 4: added elements from Cod, the most popular shooter at the time. How did that work?
Halo 5: adopted the advance mobility phase that was popular at the time. That didn’t have Halo 3 numbers. Xbox most played games proved that much.
MCC on PC: Spoon feeding content like most games do today in an attempt to retain player counts. Stream shows a peak of 990 thousand and average 12.5 thousand on weekends.
How many more Halo games must release and try to fit in and not replicate the same success, before you realize that this isn’t working?
Now don’t misunderstand, this not for those who wants a finished product. Who wants Halo to launch with all expected content.
This post is for those who think Halo needs to take w/e is working the most popular shooters and make some hybrid mess of a game.
When it comes to Halo 5 its a great game just not a good Halo game. It should have been an IP of its own. That way it would not have been tied to what we expect from Halo.
We have no data to prove that a Halo game leaning more towards classic gameplay would fail in today’s market, in fact we have the opposite when you look at the amount of people who bought MCC on pc. 343i has not attempted to make a more classic experience so for those who say it wouldn’t work, where is your proof?
For those who like sprint, Halo Online proved that it works as long as we have options to cut it off to enjoy a more classic experience. So catering to both basically.
But I really want to hear from these people that’s been saying the same thing since Halo 4, that has proven to fail time and time again.
Its just the case of Balance between the Old and the new. God help the person making the decisions trying to balance the scales because with any community almost the littlest of things can shoot the developer in the foot before the product is out for sale.
> 2533274902469708;1:
> This question is for all those who say “Halo need to evolve” “Halo needs to replicate the success of other shooters” and so on.
>
> How many more games does 343i need to release, adopting this form of “evolution,” before you guys see what sensible people have been saying.
> Halo 4: added elements from Cod, the most popular shooter at the time. How did that work?
> Halo 5: adopted the advance mobility phase that was popular at the time. That didn’t have Halo 3 numbers. Xbox most played games proved that much.
> MCC on PC: Spoon feeding content like most games do today in an attempt to retain player counts. Stream shows a peak of 990 thousand and average 12.5 thousand on weekends.
>
> How many more Halo games must release and try to fit in and not replicate the same success, before you realize that this isn’t working?
>
> Now don’t misunderstand, this not for those who wants a finished product. Who wants Halo to launch with all expected content.
> This post is for those who think Halo needs to take w/e is working the most popular shooters and make some hybrid mess of a game.
>
> When it comes to Halo 5 its a great game just not a good Halo game. It should have been an IP of its own. That way it would not have been tied to what we expect from Halo.
>
> We have no data to prove that a Halo game leaning more towards classic gameplay would fail in today’s market, in fact we have the opposite when you look at the amount of people who bought MCC on pc. 343i has not attempted to make a more classic experience so for those who say it wouldn’t work, where is your proof?
>
> For those who like sprint, Halo Online proved that it works as long as we have options to cut it off to enjoy a more classic experience. So catering to both basically.
>
> But I really want to hear from these people that’s been saying the same thing since Halo 4, that has proven to fail time and time again.
They gotta balance the old and the new. I agree halo 4 and halo 5 went a little too far, but some things like sprint and clamber are pretty much necessary for games these days
While I agree with the general sentiment, I don’t see how taking a more ‘classic halo’ approach to MCC would make it better? Bungie would have just sold like, a mappack, maybe two, and called it a day and you think that’d be doing better on steam than 343 actually providing stuff?
You also cite MCC as an example of classic formula working, but also point on how its failed at retention. Hyping up a big nastalgia sale fest is easy. Halo 4 and 5 still sold very well, but all 343 released have suffered from retention, including MCC which is literally just ‘bungie+’ in terms of experience.
> 2533274964189700;4:
> While I agree with the general sentiment, I don’t see how taking a more ‘classic halo’ approach to MCC would make it better? Bungie would have just sold like, a mappack, maybe two, and called it a day and you think that’d be doing better on steam than 343 actually providing stuff?
>
> You also cite MCC as an example of classic formula working, but also point on how its failed at retention. Hyping up a big nastalgia sale fest is easy. Halo 4 and 5 still sold very well, but all 343 released have suffered from retention, including MCC which is literally just ‘bungie+’ in terms of experience.
A more classic approach to MCC would have been to release the game complete and finished on launch, not spoon feed us the games.
Yes providing map packs and slight weapon tuning would do wonders for the game, look at CS:Go, as of me replying to you it has 398,000 players. And that game gets maps. Of course new firefight maps like we got with Reach during anniversary and so on would do great for the game.
Once again the data is there you just need look at it, and see whats happening and of course take player feedback into consideration. Like for example 343i could have released a spin off with more classic gameplay and see how the community fairs with it. But they haven’t even done that much. I like Halo wars but instead of doing Halo wars 2 we could have had this spin off, to see if classic Halo is truly dead. Im all for saying “343i tried it and the game’s population dropped. Roll in the sprint ADS and w/e else” but until we have this data shown, then imma always say “343i didnt try so we can’t say that it wont work.”
> 2535447175857524;3:
> > 2533274902469708;1:
> >
>
> They gotta balance the old and the new. I agree halo 4 and halo 5 went a little too far, but some things like sprint and clamber are pretty much necessary for games these days
I don’t think it is necessary because mixing things up, makes you stand out amongst the crowd. Halo always had unique ways for us to traverse the map and clamber wasn’t a requirement, we had that meaty jump and crouch jumping. Then we had grenade jumps as well. When it comes to sprint in Halo, I don’t like it but I think Halo Reach and Halo Online did it the best with options to not have it and it didn’t effect gameplay as heavy as it does in 4 and 5. Halo’s 4 and 5 have heavier bullet magnetism, which isn’t healthy for shooters in my opinion.
But we will never know if a new Halo would succeed without it because 343i is too afraid I guess. With 3 failures under their belt, why not try. I will acknowledge that these 3 games sold well but did not settle well with the fans.
In short I just want data proving that Halo would not survive in current day without current mechanics vs evolving what Halo 3 and reach did right and giving us a complete experience on launch. If 343i could show me that it would fail then i’ll be first in line to buy w/e they release.
Ironically, Halo 4 is doing really well after the fact. Its community that kept playing didn’t stop until 2019, and now it’s playlists on MCC are full of players who don’t afk, grief or quit, and I cannot say that about the other titles.
Also, it was the most fun Halo since Halo 2.
> 2533274807881644;7:
> Ironically, Halo 4 is doing really well after the fact. Its community that kept playing didn’t stop until 2019, and now it’s playlists on MCC are full of players who don’t afk, grief or quit, and I cannot say that about the other titles.
>
> Also, it was the most fun Halo since Halo 2.
Are we playing the same game? On certain weekends I couldn’t find a H4 game for the death of me. At the end I got fed up and just uninstalled its multiplayer. Not a huge lost in my books frankly speaking, but I highly doubt there is a H4 community on MCC! It’s basically the H3/Reach collection with some H2 sprinkled on top. Finding a game on HCE and four is basically impossible for me!
> 2533274795098161;8:
> > 2533274807881644;7:
> > Ironically, Halo 4 is doing really well after the fact. Its community that kept playing didn’t stop until 2019, and now it’s playlists on MCC are full of players who don’t afk, grief or quit, and I cannot say that about the other titles.
> >
> > Also, it was the most fun Halo since Halo 2.
>
> Are we playing the same game? On certain weekends I couldn’t find a H4 game for the death of me. At the end I got fed up and just uninstalled its multiplayer. Not a huge lost in my books frankly speaking, but I highly doubt there is a H4 community on MCC! It’s basically the H3/Reach collection with some H2 sprinkled on top. Finding a game on HCE and four is basically impossible for me!
That sounds like an experience outlier to the norm
> 2533274902469708;5:
> > 2533274964189700;4:
> > While I agree with the general sentiment, I don’t see how taking a more ‘classic halo’ approach to MCC would make it better? Bungie would have just sold like, a mappack, maybe two, and called it a day and you think that’d be doing better on steam than 343 actually providing stuff?
> >
> > You also cite MCC as an example of classic formula working, but also point on how its failed at retention. Hyping up a big nastalgia sale fest is easy. Halo 4 and 5 still sold very well, but all 343 released have suffered from retention, including MCC which is literally just ‘bungie+’ in terms of experience.
>
> A more classic approach to MCC would have been to release the game complete and finished on launch, not spoon feed us the games.
> Yes providing map packs and slight weapon tuning would do wonders for the game, look at CS:Go, as of me replying to you it has 398,000 players. And that game gets maps. Of course new firefight maps like we got with Reach during anniversary and so on would do great for the game.
>
> Once again the data is there you just need look at it, and see whats happening and of course take player feedback into consideration. Like for example 343i could have released a spin off with more classic gameplay and see how the community fairs with it. But they haven’t even done that much. I like Halo wars but instead of doing Halo wars 2 we could have had this spin off, to see if classic Halo is truly dead. Im all for saying “343i tried it and the game’s population dropped. Roll in the sprint ADS and w/e else” but until we have this data shown, then imma always say “343i didnt try so we can’t say that it wont work.”
To be fair MCC when it originally came out on Xbox back in 2014 had all 4 mainline Halo games at launch along with every single one of their multiplayers and maps. Granted we all know that MCC back then launched with terribly broken netcode, which was due to several factors, but the game still launched with everything that they wanted MCC to have at the time. They later added ODST for free to make up for the horrible launch and later added Reach for a 10 dollar add on. In terms of the PC version launching with a staggered release of the games, that was in direct response to wanting to make sure a repeat of the original MCC launch never happened again.
Tweaking the guns in MCC could lead to honestly more backlash rather than less. The big draw of MCC is that you can play all of these classic Halo games pretty much identically to how they were when the originally released. Doing something like nerfing the BR in Halo 2, for example, would do nothing but anger the fan base that just wants to play classic Halo 2.
You are right that 343 has never tried to make a purely classic style Halo game to see how it would perform. But it’s also really tricky to say whether such a game would be successful in 2021. It’s hard to justify spending tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to create a video game that may or may not be successful. Microsoft and 343 definitely have people that are always researching what the best place to take Halo is, and I guess there conclusion at least right now is Halo Infinite rather than a completely classic style Halo game. Who knows maybe all the research is wrong as a classic Halo game would sell millions, but it’s definitely a hard question to answer. I do agree with your statement that we will never know for sure unless 343 actually makes one, but either way 343 is stuck in what feels like a lose-lose situation.
> 2533274902469708;1:
> Halo 4: added elements from Cod, the most popular shooter at the time. How did that work?
The decline didn’t start with Halo 4. I’ll agree that there needs to be a balance for old and new fans, but Bungie started the divide with Halo Reach, it had CoD elements too, I wonder why you have not mentioned Halo Reach. I’m no defender of 343i’s mistakes… But the rot (for want of a better word) set in with Bungie at the helm. 343i inherited a franchise in transition imo.
Halo Reach was terrible at times. Sure we had the choice of loadouts where we could choose sprint, armour lock etc. But not choosing it did not mean it did not affect or impact my experience. The player with armour lock still slowed down the gameplay, the player with sprint had their bonus etc. Being able to choose does not equal better in all scenarios. 343i always had a very hard job.
Halo Reach is the reason imho.
> 2533274795098161;8:
> > 2533274807881644;7:
> > Ironically, Halo 4 is doing really well after the fact. Its community that kept playing didn’t stop until 2019, and now it’s playlists on MCC are full of players who don’t afk, grief or quit, and I cannot say that about the other titles.
> >
> > Also, it was the most fun Halo since Halo 2.
>
> Are we playing the same game? On certain weekends I couldn’t find a H4 game for the death of me. At the end I got fed up and just uninstalled its multiplayer. Not a huge lost in my books frankly speaking, but I highly doubt there is a H4 community on MCC! It’s basically the H3/Reach collection with some H2 sprinkled on top. Finding a game on HCE and four is basically impossible for me!
I haven’t had any issues. As a matter a fact I feel like I’m getting to many.
I think you need a good balance. It’s fine in my opinion to adopt things from other games if they add to your game rather than change it too drastically.
I’m confused by your MCC comment of “spoon feeding content”. They work on new content and then release it when ready. I consider this to be a good thing. What would you rather have them do?
> 2533274964189700;4:
> While I agree with the general sentiment, I don’t see how taking a more ‘classic halo’ approach to MCC would make it better? Bungie would have just sold like, a mappack, maybe two, and called it a day and you think that’d be doing better on steam than 343 actually providing stuff?
>
> You also cite MCC as an example of classic formula working, but also point on how its failed at retention. Hyping up a big nastalgia sale fest is easy. Halo 4 and 5 still sold very well, but all 343 released have suffered from retention, including MCC which is literally just ‘bungie+’ in terms of experience.
I think every game except for maybe a Warzone or Fortnite are suffering from retention issues. I hate generalizations, but a lot of people just seem to be in a grass is always greener attitude - always looking to the next big game, complaining when it doesn’t live up to their hyped up standards, and then 3-5 years down the line saying it wasn’t so bad, why don’t they make games like that anymore or go back to that style.
I am not saying OP is like this, I am just saying I feel like this is a general public, casual gamer issue these days.