How many AI can be on your screen at once?

Has the number of AI that can be on your screen been released yet? Just wondering, because I just had the thought of their being massive battles between ally AI and enemy AI in Halo:4.

Just imagine, an epic cut-scene, like this one in reach: It’s just too epic!

And then… ‘bang’. You’re back into Master Chiefs POV and you charge into war with all of your allies, crushing, (or at least attempting to crush), everything that stands against humanity.

Just a thought.

If you say that there is a certain amount of AI on screen at once, please provide the source which you found it. Thank you.

That’s a pre-rendered cut scene, not actual gameplay. The two are not equivalent to each other, so the numbers of what could be seen all at once would vary. I could be wrong that it isn’t pre-rendered though.

> That’s a pre-rendered cut scene, not actual gameplay. The two are not equivalent to each other, so the numbers of what could be seen all at once would vary. I could be wrong that it isn’t pre-rendered though.

Oh yeah, I know! I was just suggesting or rather, day dreaming about how cool it would be to see a cut-scene like that, then having the massive battle with however many AI there are on screen, from your POV, (the actual gameplay).

Maybe for next gen consoles (or ones after that) could have that many AI without the frame rate chugging badly.

Though the programming of any kind of AI uses math and science beyond my mind. Sure it’s easy to judge stupid AI but it’s nowhere near a cake walk me thinks.

Remember in a reach vidoc, they said it could have you, 5 Spartans, a dozen Marines against 30ish covenant(which never happened). That would be cool.

A few wouldn’t heart. Maybe while the troops of the Infinity are fighting the Covenant, chief will show up and the marines and or SIV’s will be like, “Where the hell did the SII come from?”, then chief will say who he is and you can just imagine what will be going on over the com with Cortana and what not.

> Maybe for next gen consoles (or ones after that) could have that many AI without the frame rate chugging badly.
>
> Though the programming of any kind of AI uses math and science beyond my mind. Sure it’s easy to judge stupid AI but it’s nowhere near a cake walk me thinks.

Agree with everything you said.

That pre-rendered scene was supposed to be gameplay, originally Bungie planned for us to drive and take part of an epic battle with at least 2 scarabs and lots of other vehicles. Sadly, they got greedy or ran out of time, and instead gave us a few seconds long cut scene saying “well, this is how this map was supposed to play”, and the start singing “trolololol”.

I sure Hope 343i has learnt from Bungies mistakes, Halo is not known for covert operations, sniping or even slow-mo scenes. Halo is known for big, epic battles and a struggle against an over-whelming enemy!

> That’s a pre-rendered cut scene, not actual gameplay. The two are not equivalent to each other, so the numbers of what could be seen all at once would vary. I could be wrong that it isn’t pre-rendered though.

Interesting. I wonder why the frame rate drops if its pre rendered.

Each Halo of the trilogy has featured at least 1 large, naturally occurring or convenient AI collection. The Great Journey Johnson clones and The Covenant marine island don’t count since they’re less practical.

CE: AotCR Twin Bridges, 3 other megabattles

H2: Great Journey Elite Army, Outskirts 28 Ultra Elite IWHBYD fight

My highest numbers in H2:

-20 Spec Ops Elites, 20 Councilors, Johnson, Keyes, Tartarus (Great Journey)
-62 Councilors, Rtas Vadum, 2 Spec Ops Elites, Johnson, Scarab Johnson, 2 marines, 4 Hunters, Keyes, Tartarus (Great Journey)

Done on H2 Vista, there was no lag at all, only particle loss. On the other hand, I’ve only played H2 Vista on lowest settings so that might explain it’s absence.

H3: The Storm AA Gun Megabattle, The Covenant Hornet Army, Sierra 117 dam battle

My highest numbers in H3:

-56 Covies (The Storm): additional 4 warehouse Brutes
-28 Hornets (The Covenant)
-40 AI (The Covenant): 19 Brutes, 3 Grunts, 14 marines, Arbiter, 7 Elites, 2 Hornet pilots
-33 Grunts (Sierra 117)

In H3, there was only lag with the first 2 which made me suspect scripting is the reason why such a large AI collection is not feasible by default.

Imo, such large AI numbers should at least be encouraged if they aren’t naturally occurring or convenient.

In H3, I had to go through a hell lot of work to get AI. It wasn’t as simple as it was in CE or H2. The one with the marines vs. Brutes cost me my sanity and took me days to successfully complete.

> Each Halo of the trilogy has featured at least 1 large, naturally occurring or convenient AI collection. The Great Journey Johnson clones and The Covenant marine island don’t count since they’re less practical.
>
> CE: AotCR Twin Bridges, 3 other megabattles
>
> H2: Great Journey Elite Army, Outskirts 28 Ultra Elite IWHBYD fight
>
> My highest numbers in H2:
>
> -20 Spec Ops Elites, 20 Councilors, Johnson, Keyes, Tartarus (Great Journey)
> -62 Councilors, Rtas Vadum, 2 Spec Ops Elites, Johnson, Scarab Johnson, 2 marines, 4 Hunters, Keyes, Tartarus (Great Journey)
>
> Done on H2 Vista, there was no lag at all, only particle loss. On the other hand, I’ve only played H2 Vista on lowest settings so that might explain it’s absence.
>
> H3: The Storm AA Gun Megabattle, The Covenant Hornet Army, Sierra 117 dam battle
>
> My highest numbers in H3:
>
> -56 Covies (The Storm): additional 4 warehouse Brutes
> -28 Hornets (The Covenant)
> -40 AI (The Covenant): 19 Brutes, 3 Grunts, 14 marines, Arbiter, 7 Elites, 2 Hornet pilots
> -33 Grunts (Sierra 117)
>
> In H3, there was only lag with the first 2 which made me suspect scripting is the reason why such a large AI collection is not feasible by default.
>
>
>
> Imo, such large AI numbers should at least be encouraged if they aren’t naturally occurring or convenient.
>
> In H3, I had to go through a hell lot of work to get AI. It wasn’t as simple as it was in CE or H2. The one with the marines vs. Brutes cost me my sanity and took me days to successfully complete.

Glad you have videos of your hard work. Interesting dynamic. I’m curious why we didn’t have such interactions of that scale? Clearly the hardware could run it.

> That’s a pre-rendered cut scene, not actual gameplay. The two are not equivalent to each other, so the numbers of what could be seen all at once would vary. I could be wrong that it isn’t pre-rendered though.

I’m afraid you’re wrong. It’s rendered in real time using the game engine as are all the cut scenes. If it were pre-rendered then the frame rate wouldn’t dip and it would look a lot better than it does.

Pre-rendered means that it isn’t in real time and it is just a video playing. Real time means it is using the game engine to render and compile what’s on the screen. Halo Reach NEVER uses pre-rendered scenes apart from the intro credits.

The only thing I would mention is that in cut scene there is no AI in motion. All of the characters have predefined behavioural patterns which are drawn out by an artist/cinematic developer. That is why every cut scene is identical.

Graphically, it’s rendered in real-time. It is not comparable to in-game however because there are no AI calculations taking place. If every single one of those characters had AI enabled the game would probably crash. THAT is why we need to wait for next gen.

People prefer pretty graphics over things like more AI on screen, so don’t expect much.

If there is one thing I’ve always hoped for is that Halo would actually make an outdoor map that is not in a canyon, but actually wide open and maybe block it off with minefields like the ones on Sandtrap. A campaign mission where you actually don’t feel constricted to go down one path would be amazing. New Alexandria from Reach was a great example, but you couldn’t walk on the ground floor.

> If there is one thing I’ve always hoped for is that Halo would actually make an outdoor map that is not in a canyon, but actually wide open and maybe block it off with minefields like the ones on Sandtrap. A campaign mission where you actually don’t feel constricted to go down one path would be amazing. New Alexandria from Reach was a great example, but you couldn’t walk on the ground floor.

Battlefield: Halo, you mean? Lol yeah I wouldn’t mine a huge map with 64-128 players battling it out with vehicles and control points etc. It would be a nice alternative game mode to have alongside all the close combat stuff. It might happen on the nextbox but even then… I realistically don’t see it happening.

> > If there is one thing I’ve always hoped for is that Halo would actually make an outdoor map that is not in a canyon, but actually wide open and maybe block it off with minefields like the ones on Sandtrap. A campaign mission where you actually don’t feel constricted to go down one path would be amazing. New Alexandria from Reach was a great example, but you couldn’t walk on the ground floor.
>
> Battlefield: Halo, you mean? Lol yeah I wouldn’t mine a huge map with 64-128 players battling it out with vehicles and control points etc. It would be a nice alternative game mode to have alongside all the close combat stuff. It might happen on the nextbox but even then… I realistically don’t see it happening.

I actually meant for Campaign. Where you could see a scarab fighting of a pelican in the distance and you can actually choose to approach and fight it and even kill it if you can. If they make something that doesn’t feel confined around certain barrier/path, it would be amazing.

Ah I see. It’s a good concept. When it’s executed it usually turns out terrible though. Far Cry 2 is an example of open sandbox that went bad. The second you start opening things out to a sandbox environment the cinematic effect starts to decline. Halo has a good balance of cinematic and sandbox experiences. Perhaps it would work if you had a defined linear path but you could choose to stray from it to engage “distant” fights. Later however, you would then return to the pre-defined path so that the story could chug along.

Are you perhaps referring to Halo 3 where you take on 2 scarabs? Instead of it being “You have to kill them”, have it so they are in the distance fighting and you can choose to help out? You could even have consequences depending if you helped out or not… I don’t want it to go down Mass Effect route though. A consequence like if you help them out, you risk your current squad dying and the current mission becoming more difficult. If you help them out though later in the story a group of ODSTs come and help you making THAT mission easier? I’m thinking aloud of course.

9001+

Oh, and speaking of awesome computers, did you know that in an indev video of Notch’s new game 0x10c, the frames per second count got up to over 1000. Notch’s computer must run on redstone or something.