How is it not being patient with wanting a delay?

Games Halo Infinite
1

I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.

I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.

This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any other game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.

2

> 2535436507762651;1:
> I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
>
> I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
>
> This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.

The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:

  • **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.

Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.

Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:

  • Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
3

> 2533274874872263;2:
> > 2535436507762651;1:
> > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> >
> > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> >
> > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
>
> The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
>
>
> - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
>
> Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
>
> Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
>
>
> - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.

The Launch is the most important and will have the highest player count at that time, they’re not doing a responsible thing honestly, the logical thing to do is to delay again and launch it when its ready, or even just launch the PVP and launch campaign and forge at the same time when they’re all done. I’m tired of live services and this mantra of “fix it later” in all AAA titles, specially one that hasn’t launched feature complete for an entire decade.

4

> 2535436507762651;3:
> > 2533274874872263;2:
> > > 2535436507762651;1:
> > > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> > >
> > > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> > >
> > > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
> >
> > The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
> >
> >
> > - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
> >
> > Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
> >
> > Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
> >
> >
> > - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
>
> The Launch is the most important and will have the highest player count at that time, they’re not doing a responsible thing honestly, the logical thing to do is to delay again and launch it when its ready, or even just launch the PVP and launch campaign and forge at the same time when they’re all done. I’m tired of live services and this mantra of “fix it later” in all AAA titles, specially one that hasn’t launched feature complete for an entire decade.

The whole point here is they’ve REJECTED ‘fix it later’ and they’ve rejected crunching. The counter example here is Cyberpunk 2077: they released a clearly broken product and nearly broke half their developers in the process.

The key to software and product development is identifying your key, core, nice to have, optional, nonessential features and prioritising them appropriately.

I entirely agree and I’m disappointed too, but likewise I am desperate to play Infinite’s story and Multiplayer and I’d rather do that without the ‘missing’ features (or even worse those features launching and being unusable due to bugs).

5

> 2533274874872263;4:
> > 2535436507762651;3:
> > > 2533274874872263;2:
> > > > 2535436507762651;1:
> > > > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> > > >
> > > > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> > > >
> > > > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
> > >
> > > The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
> > >
> > >
> > > - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
> > >
> > > Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
> > >
> > > Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
> > >
> > >
> > > - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
> >
> > The Launch is the most important and will have the highest player count at that time, they’re not doing a responsible thing honestly, the logical thing to do is to delay again and launch it when its ready, or even just launch the PVP and launch campaign and forge at the same time when they’re all done. I’m tired of live services and this mantra of “fix it later” in all AAA titles, specially one that hasn’t launched feature complete for an entire decade.
>
> The whole point here is they’ve REJECTED ‘fix it later’ and they’ve rejected crunching. The counter example here is Cyberpunk 2077: they released a clearly broken product and nearly broke half their developers in the process.
>
> The key to software and product development is identifying your key, core, nice to have, optional, nonessential features and prioritising them appropriately.
>
> I entirely agree and I’m disappointed too, but likewise I am desperate to play Infinite’s story and Multiplayer and I’d rather do that without the ‘missing’ features (or even worse those features launching and being unusable due to bugs).

They haven’t rejected the fix it later, they’ve instead fully embraced it. The ONLY solution here is to delay for another year, I can wait, i’ve waited much longer for other things. This game has to launch as feature complete as possible, missing two staple and pillar features of the franchise is not the way to launch.

6

> 2533274874872263;2:
> > 2535436507762651;1:
> > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> >
> > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> >
> > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
>
> The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
>
>
> - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
>
> Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
>
> Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
>
>
> - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.

This for the most part.

For me, Co-Op is a nice added layer of frosting on top of the rest of the cake. Forge is the toppings to it. I can still eat the cake without those. Would those be nice to have? Yeah, they would. But their relative importance to me as a player is a lot lower than others.

Just because two toppings of a cake aren’t finished doesn’t mean the cake itself isn’t finished or delicious. They’re added pieces on top of the base. Campaign and Multiplayer are more than enough to satiate me for the time being. So I don’t personally believe the game should be delayed upwards of 6 months, since they’re coming anyhow.

If news comes out that 343 ends up cancelling plans to bring Co-Op or Forge to the game altogether, then I’ll be up in arms. But for as long as it’s coming, I don’t see an issue.

7

> 2533274867279969;6:
> > 2533274874872263;2:
> > > 2535436507762651;1:
> > > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> > >
> > > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> > >
> > > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
> >
> > The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
> >
> >
> > - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
> >
> > Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
> >
> > Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
> >
> >
> > - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
>
> This for the most part.
>
> For me, Co-Op is a nice added layer of frosting on top of the rest of the cake. Forge is the toppings to it. I can still eat the cake without those. Would those be nice to have? Yeah, they would. But their relative importance to me as a player is a lot lower than others.
>
> Just because two toppings of a cake aren’t finished doesn’t mean the cake itself isn’t finished or delicious. They’re added pieces on top of the base. Campaign and Multiplayer are more than enough to satiate me for the time being. So I don’t personally believe the game should be delayed upwards of 6 months, since they’re coming anyhow.
>
> If news comes out that 343 ends up cancelling plans to bring Co-Op or Forge to the game altogether, then I’ll be up in arms. But for as long as it’s coming, I don’t see an issue.

Yea but we weren’t promised a partially complete cake, I’m paying full price I want a fully complete game.

8

> 2535436507762651;7:
> > 2533274867279969;6:
> > > 2533274874872263;2:
> > > > 2535436507762651;1:
> > > > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> > > >
> > > > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> > > >
> > > > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
> > >
> > > The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
> > >
> > >
> > > - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
> > >
> > > Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
> > >
> > > Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
> > >
> > >
> > > - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
> >
> > This for the most part.
> >
> > For me, Co-Op is a nice added layer of frosting on top of the rest of the cake. Forge is the toppings to it. I can still eat the cake without those. Would those be nice to have? Yeah, they would. But their relative importance to me as a player is a lot lower than others.
> >
> > Just because two toppings of a cake aren’t finished doesn’t mean the cake itself isn’t finished or delicious. They’re added pieces on top of the base. Campaign and Multiplayer are more than enough to satiate me for the time being. So I don’t personally believe the game should be delayed upwards of 6 months, since they’re coming anyhow.
> >
> > If news comes out that 343 ends up cancelling plans to bring Co-Op or Forge to the game altogether, then I’ll be up in arms. But for as long as it’s coming, I don’t see an issue.
>
> Yea but we weren’t promised a partially complete cake, I’m paying full price I want a fully complete game.

Then that’s your choice. You can choose not to buy the cake and wait for them to add those finishing touches onto it.

Just saying personally speaking, I’m fine with the prospect of waiting for those features until they’re ready while I enjoy the slice of cake I take.

9

> 2535436507762651;5:
> > 2533274874872263;4:
> > > 2535436507762651;3:
> > > > 2533274874872263;2:
> > > > > 2535436507762651;1:
> > > > > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> > > > >
> > > > > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
> > > >
> > > > The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
> > > >
> > > > Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
> > > >
> > > > Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
> > >
> > > The Launch is the most important and will have the highest player count at that time, they’re not doing a responsible thing honestly, the logical thing to do is to delay again and launch it when its ready, or even just launch the PVP and launch campaign and forge at the same time when they’re all done. I’m tired of live services and this mantra of “fix it later” in all AAA titles, specially one that hasn’t launched feature complete for an entire decade.
> >
> > The whole point here is they’ve REJECTED ‘fix it later’ and they’ve rejected crunching. The counter example here is Cyberpunk 2077: they released a clearly broken product and nearly broke half their developers in the process.
> >
> > The key to software and product development is identifying your key, core, nice to have, optional, nonessential features and prioritising them appropriately.
> >
> > I entirely agree and I’m disappointed too, but likewise I am desperate to play Infinite’s story and Multiplayer and I’d rather do that without the ‘missing’ features (or even worse those features launching and being unusable due to bugs).
>
> They haven’t rejected the fix it later, they’ve instead fully embraced it. The ONLY solution here is to delay for another year, I can wait, i’ve waited much longer for other things. This game has to launch as feature complete as possible, missing two staple and pillar features of the franchise is not the way to launch.

Fix it later sees you release something broken and fix it later. Meanwhile customers have bought something which doesn’t work. Cyberpunk was SUCH an extreme example that storefronts reversed their usual refund policies.

343 are telling people at least 3 months before it goes on sale that it will not have those features and it’s for consumers to decide whether or not they’re willing to buy it.

The new Forge is going to be absolutely incredible but there will be SO many things making its development difficult. They cannot delay the whole game waiting for it.

Campaign Co-op is much more difficult. That said… the issues with saves for multiple people in multiple sessions in a non-linear Campaign are totally new for the series (and depending on implementation potentially gaming, full stop). If Co-op Campaign is the only bit which is broken they can’t delay the whole thing waiting for it

10

> 2533274867279969;8:
> > 2535436507762651;7:
> > > 2533274867279969;6:
> > > > 2533274874872263;2:
> > > > > 2535436507762651;1:
> > > > > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> > > > >
> > > > > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
> > > >
> > > > The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
> > > >
> > > > Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
> > > >
> > > > Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
> > >
> > > This for the most part.
> > >
> > > For me, Co-Op is a nice added layer of frosting on top of the rest of the cake. Forge is the toppings to it. I can still eat the cake without those. Would those be nice to have? Yeah, they would. But their relative importance to me as a player is a lot lower than others.
> > >
> > > Just because two toppings of a cake aren’t finished doesn’t mean the cake itself isn’t finished or delicious. They’re added pieces on top of the base. Campaign and Multiplayer are more than enough to satiate me for the time being. So I don’t personally believe the game should be delayed upwards of 6 months, since they’re coming anyhow.
> > >
> > > If news comes out that 343 ends up cancelling plans to bring Co-Op or Forge to the game altogether, then I’ll be up in arms. But for as long as it’s coming, I don’t see an issue.
> >
> > Yea but we weren’t promised a partially complete cake, I’m paying full price I want a fully complete game.
>
> Then that’s your choice. You can choose not to buy the cake and wait for them to add those finishing touches onto it.
>
> Just saying personally speaking, I’m fine with the prospect of waiting for those features until they’re ready while I enjoy the slice of cake I take.

But for 3-6 months and those could be even longer, many people will have moved on to different games by then, not launching feature complete will damage this game in the long turn much more then you think, and lots more people play coop and benefit from Forge then you realize, its why past games with forge are still so active.

11

> 2533274874872263;9:
> > 2535436507762651;5:
> > > 2533274874872263;4:
> > > > 2535436507762651;3:
> > > > > 2533274874872263;2:
> > > > > > 2535436507762651;1:
> > > > > > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
> > > > >
> > > > > The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
> > > > >
> > > > > Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
> > > >
> > > > The Launch is the most important and will have the highest player count at that time, they’re not doing a responsible thing honestly, the logical thing to do is to delay again and launch it when its ready, or even just launch the PVP and launch campaign and forge at the same time when they’re all done. I’m tired of live services and this mantra of “fix it later” in all AAA titles, specially one that hasn’t launched feature complete for an entire decade.
> > >
> > > The whole point here is they’ve REJECTED ‘fix it later’ and they’ve rejected crunching. The counter example here is Cyberpunk 2077: they released a clearly broken product and nearly broke half their developers in the process.
> > >
> > > The key to software and product development is identifying your key, core, nice to have, optional, nonessential features and prioritising them appropriately.
> > >
> > > I entirely agree and I’m disappointed too, but likewise I am desperate to play Infinite’s story and Multiplayer and I’d rather do that without the ‘missing’ features (or even worse those features launching and being unusable due to bugs).
> >
> > They haven’t rejected the fix it later, they’ve instead fully embraced it. The ONLY solution here is to delay for another year, I can wait, i’ve waited much longer for other things. This game has to launch as feature complete as possible, missing two staple and pillar features of the franchise is not the way to launch.
>
> Fix it later sees you release something broken and fix it later. Meanwhile customers have bought something which doesn’t work. Cyberpunk was SUCH an extreme example that storefronts reversed their usual refund policies.
>
> 343 are telling people at least 3 months before it goes on sale that it will not have those features and it’s for consumers to decide whether or not they’re willing to buy it.
>
> The new Forge is going to be absolutely incredible but there will be SO many things making its development difficult. They cannot delay the whole game waiting for it.
>
> Campaign Co-op is much more difficult. That said… the issues with saves for multiple people in multiple sessions in a non-linear Campaign are totally new for the series (and depending on implementation potentially gaming, full stop). If Co-op Campaign is the only bit which is broken they can’t delay the whole thing waiting for it

What else isn’t complete that they aren’t telling us? I fear its going to launch lack luster and have barley any maps or modes to last even a month, the game isn’t finished till both forge and co-op are in, all because they’ve told us does not magically make this acceptable.

12

> 2535436507762651;11:
> > 2533274874872263;9:
> > > 2535436507762651;5:
> > > > 2533274874872263;4:
> > > > > 2535436507762651;3:
> > > > > > 2533274874872263;2:
> > > > > > > 2535436507762651;1:
> > > > > > > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Launch is the most important and will have the highest player count at that time, they’re not doing a responsible thing honestly, the logical thing to do is to delay again and launch it when its ready, or even just launch the PVP and launch campaign and forge at the same time when they’re all done. I’m tired of live services and this mantra of “fix it later” in all AAA titles, specially one that hasn’t launched feature complete for an entire decade.
> > > >
> > > > The whole point here is they’ve REJECTED ‘fix it later’ and they’ve rejected crunching. The counter example here is Cyberpunk 2077: they released a clearly broken product and nearly broke half their developers in the process.
> > > >
> > > > The key to software and product development is identifying your key, core, nice to have, optional, nonessential features and prioritising them appropriately.
> > > >
> > > > I entirely agree and I’m disappointed too, but likewise I am desperate to play Infinite’s story and Multiplayer and I’d rather do that without the ‘missing’ features (or even worse those features launching and being unusable due to bugs).
> > >
> > > They haven’t rejected the fix it later, they’ve instead fully embraced it. The ONLY solution here is to delay for another year, I can wait, i’ve waited much longer for other things. This game has to launch as feature complete as possible, missing two staple and pillar features of the franchise is not the way to launch.
> >
> > Fix it later sees you release something broken and fix it later. Meanwhile customers have bought something which doesn’t work. Cyberpunk was SUCH an extreme example that storefronts reversed their usual refund policies.
> >
> > 343 are telling people at least 3 months before it goes on sale that it will not have those features and it’s for consumers to decide whether or not they’re willing to buy it.
> >
> > The new Forge is going to be absolutely incredible but there will be SO many things making its development difficult. They cannot delay the whole game waiting for it.
> >
> > Campaign Co-op is much more difficult. That said… the issues with saves for multiple people in multiple sessions in a non-linear Campaign are totally new for the series (and depending on implementation potentially gaming, full stop). If Co-op Campaign is the only bit which is broken they can’t delay the whole thing waiting for it
>
> What else isn’t complete that they aren’t telling us? I fear its going to launch lack luster and have barley any maps or modes to last even a month, the game isn’t finished till both forge and co-op are in, all because they’ve told us does not magically make this acceptable.

I entirely understand the scepticism, but you have to see that argument is based on a total fallacy:

343 have been being open and honest with the community. They just dropped an absolute truth bomb of this news. Do you really think they’ll be holding back other things?

This entire decision is about NOT launching broken things.

So the final question comes down to how much content the game launches with. That? I don’t have an answer to. We won’t know until launch, but I have complete faith in 343 at this point and their honesty gives me more.

13

> 2533274874872263;2:
> > 2535436507762651;1:
> > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> >
> > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> >
> > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
>
> The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
>
>
> - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
>
> Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
>
> Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
>
>
> - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.

No. The responsible thing is to make the game available when it’s ready. There are aspects of the game that are not ready.

This is likely being rushed through because the sooner non-f2p Halo is on gamepass, the sooner they have millions of additional gamepass subscriptions that are unlikely to end.

If that is the case, and I believe it is, then you should oppose it with all your heart.

This doesn’t feel like it’s about us.

14

> 2533274809073993;13:
> > 2533274874872263;2:
> > > 2535436507762651;1:
> > > I keep seeing lots of people that aren’t patient that want to play infinite as soon as possible telling people that want another delay are not patient? I want another delay so the paid portion of this game can launch complete like any game should launch. We don’t even know what WILL launch with the game, instead all we know is the little it isn’t going to come with. Which is just repeating past mistakes, yea this is probably the top suites pressing for this to go out ASAP so they can line their wallets with gamepass moneys.
> > >
> > > I just want whats best for this franchise, imo 343i has not shown any competence or really care for this game for the past decade, yea them bringing MCC to PC and fixing it after 5 years was nice, but is really a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things. I played the infinite flight and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I went in not expecting anything good.
> > >
> > > This game launching without STAPLE features is absolutely unacceptable, this is unacceptable for any game as well. If this launches without co-op or forge it will damage this game in the long term very badly, people usually don’t stay in a game longer then 2 months unless there’s new content or enough to keep them for longer, which we don’t know if the pvp will even have enough maps and modes to hold people over.
> >
> > The crux of this comes down to one question which each player must ask themselves:
> >
> >
> > - **How do you personally rate the relative importance of Campaign Co-Op and Forge as features?**Personally, I rate Forge as a ‘Nice to have, added extra’ rather than core feature. Campaign Co-op I rate more importantly, however if it isn’t going to be ready for a Holiday release, I don’t consider it essential enough to delay the wholw game. That’s where I am.
> >
> > Consider the conversation if they’d gone the other way ‘We’re delaying because these two things won’t be ready’ There’d have been uproar from people who wanted to play the bits which were ready. Releasing without is the correct middle ground to give players the choice. For anyone for whom those two missing things is a dealbreaker can make the decision to either wait on buying for co-op campaign (and either enjoy the F2P MP in the meantime) or wait on playing the game entirely until those features are available.
> >
> > Please remember Infinite has a vast number more technical challenges than any Halo before it:
> >
> >
> > - Entirely new engine built from the ground up (which has actually taken up the vast majority of development time) - Launching cross gen - Launching on PC with all the billions of configurations possible. - COVID throughout the late stages of development (especially testing)343 have done the responsibile thing: they’re refusing to release features which aren’t ready. Yes I agree in an ideal world they would have those features ready or delay til they were, however the business situation here is that Infinite can’t delay just because of non-core features and prioritising the launch going smoothly otherwise is more important.
>
> No. The responsible thing is to make the game available when it’s ready. There are aspects of the game that are not ready.
>
> This is likely being rushed through because the sooner non-f2p Halo is on gamepass, the sooner they have millions of additional gamepass subscriptions that are unlikely to end.
>
> If that is the case, and I believe it is, then you should oppose it with all your heart.
>
> This doesn’t feel like it’s about us.

You’re not addressing the product/software design side of this though. If you don’t consider those items as ‘core’ then they shouldn’t be blockers to release.

Personally I don’t consider them core. I personally don’t use Forge and while I really enjoy Co-op campaign I don’t mind waiting for it.

If you do consider those features to be core then I entirely understand where you’re coming from. That’s the crux of the disagreement.