Since this game mainly revolves around abilities instead of army compositions I am curious to hear your oppinions on it.
I, myself prefer wars 1, where at least the abilities were balanced to be just as important as armies. In wars 2 each leader has so many abilities and some leaders have a lot of offensive ones as well (unlike wars 1’s leaders having only one offensive power (except anders OFC) and Couvenant having their powers as they did.
I know it’s all how you use them along with your army but notice how I said along with. Being that armies are secondary to abilities. For example, you roll up to an enemy base, see his army and leader power it out of existence pretty much (even if they tried to move assume you surround them or something). Then you turret drop to keep line of sight then they leader ability your army to half strength in seconds (again, even accounting for movement). Then you activate some other ability to work on their base… See what I mean? Abilities, abilities, abilities… armies matter less now like it or not.
Again, what do you guys think?
> 2533274820642782;1:
> Since this game mainly revolves around abilities instead of army compositions I am curious to hear your oppinions on it.
>
> I, myself prefer wars 1, where at least the abilities were balanced to be just as important as armies. In wars 2 each leader has so many abilities and some leaders have a lot of offensive ones as well (unlike wars 1’s leaders having only one offensive power (except anders OFC) and Couvenant having their powers as they did.
>
> I know it’s all how you use them along with your army but notice how I said along with. Being that armies are secondary to abilities. For example, you roll up to an enemy base, see his army and leader power it out of existence pretty much (even if they tried to move assume you surround them or something). Then you turret drop to keep line of sight then they leader ability your army to half strength in seconds (again, even accounting for movement). Then you activate some other ability to work on their base… See what I mean? Abilities, abilities, abilities… armies matter less now like it or not.
>
> Again, what do you guys think?
Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right in your assessment of the Leader power/Army ratio from Halo Wars 1 to 2. But I wouldn’t say that it’s the worse option, I think in the balance in Halo Wars 1 was about 80% army to 20% leader power where in Halo Wars 2 I feel like it’s 70/30%.
Leader powers are still very situational options but they serve their purpose as means of turning the tide of a battle if not the tide of a whole match (which in my opinion is great).
Halo Wars 2 has a very awesome flow of combat for an RTS in that it has the methodical army/resource management stuff but it also has the mechanics built in to have on-the-fly reactive moves to manipulate the pendulum of momentum.
I personally really enjoy the online because of these dynamics, that said I would totally understand those who desire a more stripped down approach where the composition of the army at your disposal is the only “hand” you play and the timing in which you execute.
> 2533274793189038;2:
> > 2533274820642782;1:
> > Since this game mainly revolves around abilities instead of army compositions I am curious to hear your oppinions on it.
> >
> > I, myself prefer wars 1, where at least the abilities were balanced to be just as important as armies. In wars 2 each leader has so many abilities and some leaders have a lot of offensive ones as well (unlike wars 1’s leaders having only one offensive power (except anders OFC) and Couvenant having their powers as they did.
> >
> > I know it’s all how you use them along with your army but notice how I said along with. Being that armies are secondary to abilities. For example, you roll up to an enemy base, see his army and leader power it out of existence pretty much (even if they tried to move assume you surround them or something). Then you turret drop to keep line of sight then they leader ability your army to half strength in seconds (again, even accounting for movement). Then you activate some other ability to work on their base… See what I mean? Abilities, abilities, abilities… armies matter less now like it or not.
> >
> > Again, what do you guys think?
>
> Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right in your assessment of the Leader power/Army ratio from Halo Wars 1 to 2. But I wouldn’t say that it’s the worse option, I think in the balance in Halo Wars 1 was about 80% army to 20% leader power where in Halo Wars 2 I feel like it’s 70/30%.
>
> Leader powers are still very situational options but they serve their purpose as means of turning the tide of a battle if not the tide of a whole match (which in my opinion is great).
>
> Halo Wars 2 has a very awesome flow of combat for an RTS in that it has the methodical army/resource management stuff but it also has the mechanics built in to have on-the-fly reactive moves to manipulate the pendulum of momentum.
>
> I personally really enjoy the online because of these dynamics, that said I would totally understand those who desire a more stripped down approach where the composition of the army at your disposal is the only “hand” you play and the timing in which you execute.
I’m not advocating a “stripped down approach” I am merely advocating that armies need to be stronger or something to not be able to be taken out with one ability… I mean that seems ludicrous to me. You spend all your resources on your army then it just gets wrecked by an ability that costs a fraction of that and now it takes so long to pump back to where you were then, what a surprise, their ability re-charged.
I don’t know… I agree with most of your points but I still think something needs to be changed…
The only thing I don’t like about them is how you can chain them together with no GCD in between. Late game you can roll up to an enemy base, and chain drop 5 or 6 leader powers at once and completely obliterate it in seconds.
I personally think adding GCD would greatly improve the quality of the game.
> 2533274820642782;3:
> > 2533274793189038;2:
> > > 2533274820642782;1:
> > > Since this game mainly revolves around abilities instead of army compositions I am curious to hear your oppinions on it.
> > >
> > > I, myself prefer wars 1, where at least the abilities were balanced to be just as important as armies. In wars 2 each leader has so many abilities and some leaders have a lot of offensive ones as well (unlike wars 1’s leaders having only one offensive power (except anders OFC) and Couvenant having their powers as they did.
> > >
> > > I know it’s all how you use them along with your army but notice how I said along with. Being that armies are secondary to abilities. For example, you roll up to an enemy base, see his army and leader power it out of existence pretty much (even if they tried to move assume you surround them or something). Then you turret drop to keep line of sight then they leader ability your army to half strength in seconds (again, even accounting for movement). Then you activate some other ability to work on their base… See what I mean? Abilities, abilities, abilities… armies matter less now like it or not.
> > >
> > > Again, what do you guys think?
> >
> > Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right in your assessment of the Leader power/Army ratio from Halo Wars 1 to 2. But I wouldn’t say that it’s the worse option, I think in the balance in Halo Wars 1 was about 80% army to 20% leader power where in Halo Wars 2 I feel like it’s 70/30%.
> >
> > Leader powers are still very situational options but they serve their purpose as means of turning the tide of a battle if not the tide of a whole match (which in my opinion is great).
> >
> > Halo Wars 2 has a very awesome flow of combat for an RTS in that it has the methodical army/resource management stuff but it also has the mechanics built in to have on-the-fly reactive moves to manipulate the pendulum of momentum.
> >
> > I personally really enjoy the online because of these dynamics, that said I would totally understand those who desire a more stripped down approach where the composition of the army at your disposal is the only “hand” you play and the timing in which you execute.
>
> I’m not advocating a “stripped down approach” I am merely advocating that armies need to be stronger or something to not be able to be taken out with one ability… I mean that seems ludicrous to me. You spend all your resources on your army then it just gets wrecked by an ability that costs a fraction of that and now it takes so long to pump back to where you were then, what a surprise, their ability re-charged.
>
> I don’t know… I agree with most of your points but I still think something needs to be changed…
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I get it now.
Also, it seems that maybe we agree on the strengths of the game and on the idea it needs further tweaking on the balance side? But neither of us want a shift in the core Leader Power/Army dynamics?
I think the leader powers are game changers, they can save your army or destroy the enemies. Maybe they need to be a lot weaker to make armies more valuable.
> 2661949065475413;4:
> The only thing I don’t like about them is how you can chain them together with no GCD in between. Late game you can roll up to an enemy base, and chain drop 5 or 6 leader powers at once and completely obliterate it in seconds.
>
> I personally think adding GCD would greatly improve the quality of the game.
If you are banished maybe (with irradiation and glossing beam) but UNSC (turret drop… Most powerful Mac) not gonna cut seconds. Most UNSCs are more time based so they take a bit and you can’t control what they focus on (call in close air support and watch it go for random buildings instead of main as opposed to irradiation damaging main a lot and classing beam being so direct…)
> 2533274820642782;7:
> > 2661949065475413;4:
> > The only thing I don’t like about them is how you can chain them together with no GCD in between. Late game you can roll up to an enemy base, and chain drop 5 or 6 leader powers at once and completely obliterate it in seconds.
> >
> > I personally think adding GCD would greatly improve the quality of the game.
>
> If you are banished maybe (with irradiation and glossing beam) but UNSC (turret drop… Most powerful Mac) not gonna cut seconds. Most UNSCs are more time based so they take a bit and you can’t control what they focus on (call in close air support and watch it go for random buildings instead of main as opposed to irradiation damaging main a lot and classing beam being so direct…)
Well I main kinsano. Late game, resources granted, I can drop inferno, hellbringers, flamehogs, hellfire drop, napalm strike, turret, and then rebuff hellfire on my troops… in what, 10 seconds tops? If there’s no military presence immediately nearby, I can pull it off with a single scout and completely wipe a base in an instant.
And yea, I can see it affecting some leaders more than others, but ultimately I feel it would be a change for improvement.
> 2661949065475413;8:
> > 2533274820642782;7:
> > > 2661949065475413;4:
> > > The only thing I don’t like about them is how you can chain them together with no GCD in between. Late game you can roll up to an enemy base, and chain drop 5 or 6 leader powers at once and completely obliterate it in seconds.
> > >
> > > I personally think adding GCD would greatly improve the quality of the game.
> >
> > If you are banished maybe (with irradiation and glossing beam) but UNSC (turret drop… Most powerful Mac) not gonna cut seconds. Most UNSCs are more time based so they take a bit and you can’t control what they focus on (call in close air support and watch it go for random buildings instead of main as opposed to irradiation damaging main a lot and classing beam being so direct…)
>
> Well I main kinsano. Late game, resources granted, I can drop inferno, hellbringers, flamehogs, hellfire drop, napalm strike, turret, and then rebuff hellfire on my troops… in what, 10 seconds tops? If there’s no military presence immediately nearby, I can pull it off with a single scout and completely wipe a base in an instant.
>
> And yea, I can see it affecting some leaders more than others, but ultimately I feel it would be a change for improvement.
Well that’s a pretty big iff 1.
- What I it’s banished and cloaked + turrets + shield?
Although I agree with your points on your assumptions without that it sort of falls apart (I don’t see a good way to make it possible otherwise).
I also agree that you can wipe it out quickly but in my experience it’s not so simple as you make it out to be. Also turrets are usually too good for me to keep a significant presence there long enough to do enough work without going for turrets first and then that gives them time to get their army there if it wasn’t before
I used to think they were too powerful but then I started using control groups and spreading out instead of the ol’ “all units all units all units…” And now I think they are really just about right.
> 2535441806728301;10:
> I used to think they were too powerful but then I started using control groups and spreading out instead of the ol’ “all units all units all units…” And now I think they are really just about right.
Yeah, I’ve started doing that on the fly too and I think it’s great. Will change the game when everyone gets on board.
The only thing I hate is when ever another unit of that type comes out I have to make the group again (if it is made up of only one unit).
> 2535441806728301;10:
> I used to think they were too powerful but then I started using control groups and spreading out instead of the ol’ “all units all units all units…” And now I think they are really just about right.
Damn, I’ve never used control groups. I think I’m gonna start. Scrolling through my army with the right trigger takes wayyy too damn long and I can’t micro as effectively.
> 2533274794648158;12:
> > 2535441806728301;10:
> > I used to think they were too powerful but then I started using control groups and spreading out instead of the ol’ “all units all units all units…” And now I think they are really just about right.
>
> Damn, I’ve never used control groups. I think I’m gonna start. Scrolling through my army with the right trigger takes wayyy too damn long and I can’t micro as effectively.
Yeah bro. It’s fantastic, especially for scouting
> 2533274820642782;1:
> Since this game mainly revolves around abilities instead of army compositions I am curious to hear your oppinions on it.
>
> I, myself prefer wars 1, where at least the abilities were balanced to be just as important as armies. In wars 2 each leader has so many abilities and some leaders have a lot of offensive ones as well (unlike wars 1’s leaders having only one offensive power (except anders OFC) and Couvenant having their powers as they did.
>
> I know it’s all how you use them along with your army but notice how I said along with. Being that armies are secondary to abilities. For example, you roll up to an enemy base, see his army and leader power it out of existence pretty much (even if they tried to move assume you surround them or something). Then you turret drop to keep line of sight then they leader ability your army to half strength in seconds (again, even accounting for movement). Then you activate some other ability to work on their base… See what I mean? Abilities, abilities, abilities… armies matter less now like it or not.
>
> Again, what do you guys think?
I think they added too many individual leader abilities and didn’t balance most of them
> 2533274830166194;14:
> > 2533274820642782;1:
> > Since this game mainly revolves around abilities instead of army compositions I am curious to hear your oppinions on it.
> >
> > I, myself prefer wars 1, where at least the abilities were balanced to be just as important as armies. In wars 2 each leader has so many abilities and some leaders have a lot of offensive ones as well (unlike wars 1’s leaders having only one offensive power (except anders OFC) and Couvenant having their powers as they did.
> >
> > I know it’s all how you use them along with your army but notice how I said along with. Being that armies are secondary to abilities. For example, you roll up to an enemy base, see his army and leader power it out of existence pretty much (even if they tried to move assume you surround them or something). Then you turret drop to keep line of sight then they leader ability your army to half strength in seconds (again, even accounting for movement). Then you activate some other ability to work on their base… See what I mean? Abilities, abilities, abilities… armies matter less now like it or not.
> >
> > Again, what do you guys think?
>
> I think they added too many individual leader abilities and didn’t balance most of them
Yeah, it is a ton to keep up with. Good point