How do please everyone for Halo 4 & 5

Games Other Halo
1

The Halo community is split between two group of players. Halo2/3 players and REACH/Halo 4 players.

Halo 2/3 and REACH/Halo 4 are very very different games, and the community and developers seem to be split on this.

A easy way to fix this is have 2 Matchmaking Systems (Ranked and Social).

Ranked can be Halo 3 format:

  1. No Loadouts
  2. No AA (Equipment Only (AA are all Equipment)
  3. No Ordnance Drops
  4. Weapons on Map
  5. No flinching system (bring back descoping)(Thanks Zytrox, forgot this)

Social can be Halo 4 format:

  1. Loadouts
  2. AA
  3. Ordnance Drops

I think these 2 list would please everyone. Both list could be still ranked, but separated.

343 did try make an effort to bring back Old School Halo with HALO CEA, but it was too late.

But if changes were implemented to Halo 4 if possible, the game maybe saved. It is annoying the Halo 4 ranking system is not displayed in game. But as long as it works and games are competitive. Then this should be OK.

If it is too late for Halo 4, for any of the above Matchmaking updates, then 343 seriously need to look at Matchmaking for Halo 5.

Well that is my opinion on how I would fix this game, what are thoughts, do you have a better idea.

2

I don’t think it’s that simple. For example, I’ve seen quite a few people here who enjoy Halo 3 and Halo 4, yet loathe Reach. Heck, I’m one of 'em.

Also, Reach’s TU debacle clearly demonstrates that splitting the entire game in half doesn’t work. It keeps the community divided, and inevitably causes problems when popular lists are only available to one side. We also know from the Vanilla/TU/Annie split that splitting the entire game in thirds doesn’t work. :\

IMO 343i needs to identify not just what certain groups of people enjoy, but also the extent to which certain groups of people would be willing to compromise. There seem to be quite a few features that are utterly hated by one “side”, and wouldn’t really be missed even by the side that likes them. 343i needs to take this into account and try to adjust gameplay across the board.

3

Make perks work with the core gameplay.

I have a lot more ideas but too tired and too little time.

4

-No flinching system (bring back descoping)
-Ranks in-game with separate playlists ala social and ranked
-remove sprint, in cuts game flow by have the factor of weapon raise time
-remove sniper bloom, though visual it’s a minor annoyance
-make a CLASSIC playlist or Halo 3 CLASSIC choice of a gametype within the CLASSIC
-relax on the lighting bloom lens flares
-remove generic kill medals, return sniper medal as HEADSHOT
-remove auto flag pickup and add flag dropping

Off the top of my head, that’s the list of things I’d want done.

5

> Also, Reach’s TU debacle clearly demonstrates that splitting the entire game in half doesn’t work. It keeps the community divided, and inevitably causes problems when popular lists are only available to one side. We also know from the Vanilla/TU/Annie split that splitting the entire game in thirds doesn’t work. :\

The REACH TU was a failure, because how it was implemented.
In my oppionion, only 4 things were needed to FIX REACH.

  1. Armor Lock (TU did fix this)
  2. Bloom (The 85% Bloom was massive improvement)
  3. Banshee flips use boost power (This was not implemented)
  4. Guass Hog overheats after 3 quick shots boost (This was not implemented)

These 4 changes would had fixed most major problems with the game.
The REACH TU, split the community because it was introduced nearly 2 years after game launch. If it was 2 months after launch, it would had been accepted much better and Vanila REACH Play List would not had been needed.

Also, I believe that 343 stuffed up with Halo CEA, because like ODST, it should had come with 2 disc. A campaign disc and a Halo REACH Multi-Player disc with all maps (same as the Halo 3 Mythic disc that came with ODST).

This would had been great, and everyone would of had all maps.

Hopefully 343 will get it right for Halo 5.

6

Personally, I’m okay with armour abilities (except Jetpack and Camo). Loadout would be fine, if the dmr wasn’t so cheap. Finally, snipers should go back to descope, while other guns should stay on flinch.

7

From what I’ve seen so called “community” is devided into 2 major groups: these who likes to picking on some small stuff, while remembering “good ol’ days” when they were young and had time to play Halo 2/3 all day long and these who likes playing online shooters (and Halo 4 seems to be their favorite). Of course there are some people in between as well.

As DavidJCobb mentioned, there should be compromise. If you want to make “classic + competitive” playlist in Halo 5, I can guarantee that it’s population will be no bigger than Team Throwdown or Anniversary Slayer, even though there were hundreds of thousand people playing Halo 3… in 2009.

And what about those people, who feels themselves “competitive” but acutally likes new rules?

8

> > Also, Reach’s TU debacle clearly demonstrates that splitting the entire game in half doesn’t work. It keeps the community divided, and inevitably causes problems when popular lists are only available to one side. We also know from the Vanilla/TU/Annie split that splitting the entire game in thirds doesn’t work. :
>
> The REACH TU was a failure, because how it was implemented.
> <mark>In my oppionion, only 4 things</mark> were needed to FIX REACH.
> 1. Armor Lock (TU did fix this)
> 2. Bloom (The 85% Bloom was massive improvement)
> 3. Banshee flips use boost power (This was not implemented)
> 4. Guass Hog overheats after 3 quick shots boost (This was not implemented)
>
> These 4 changes would had fixed most major problems with the game.
> The REACH TU, split the community because it was introduced nearly 2 years after game launch. If it was 2 months after launch, it would had been accepted much better and Vanila REACH Play List would not had been needed.
>
> Also, I believe that 343 stuffed up with Halo CEA, because like ODST, it should had come with 2 disc. A campaign disc and a Halo REACH Multi-Player disc with all maps (same as the Halo 3 Mythic disc that came with ODST).
>
> This would had been great, and everyone would of had all maps.
>
> Hopefully 343 will get it right for Halo 5.

Personally, i could add about another 40 things to that list with the first one being Jetpack, Rev aim assist, etc, but the fact of the matter is as someone stated before, they waited about 12-18months to bring out an update which is far too long in todays market there are so many games out, that it’l be lucky to retain a solid population for 6 months, these game mechanics are designed to fit in with everything else, they remove one and the whole game balance is out the window. For example, Jet pack is the worst ever game breaking mechanic ever to be put into a first person shooter, it rendered rockets and grenades useless, allowed kill ones to be exploited, gave height advantage and null and voided any sort of cover on the map when your one shot however it was required to balance the god awful over powered vehicles.

Armour lock was meant to be anti vehicular in BTB and it generally worked well in place of you lack of jump height to get over the noob in a ghost the whole game however, in team slayer or any other CQC game type it was game breaking…especially if you had 2 or more, cos they would just double team-spray-pummel-greande armour lock kill.

But once again i also refer to todays current target market, having been console and pc gaming for almost 25 years, these games have gotten so much easier and not FPS, everything from Mortal Kombat to even COD is getting easier, competitive gaming makes up the minority in this game, it always has and it always will.

Especially when the hungry Microsoft is trying to capitalise on halo’s previous successes and benefit from it the way COD has.

9

343i should make the game that they want to make.

As someone pointed out, everyone wants what they want.

Even those that hate Halo 4 have different cures for Halo 5.

I think that they will make Halo 5 better than this game. Then again, I rather enjoy Halo 4.

Social and Competitive playlists, with CSR in-game in the Competitive, would be nice.

I have no problem with sprint, AA, Ordinance drops, and hope that it remains.

10

Thanks MArk,

I know REACH requires more than 4 fixes, but these are the main things I find broken with the game.

If these were fixed, I would had been happy with the overall game.

But to be truthful I would had preferred an improved Halo 3.

11

> Thanks MArk,
>
> I know REACH requires more than 4 fixes, but these are the main things I find broken with the game.
>
> If these were fixed, I would had been happy with the overall game.
>
> But to be truthful I would had preferred an improved Halo 3.

I think that ultimately, no game is perfect.

And there comes a time where a developer turns their attention to the next game as the next expression of their creativity.

For 343i, I am looking forward to see their next game.

12

> 343i should make the game that they want to make.
>
> As someone pointed out, everyone wants what they want.
>
> Even those that hate Halo 4 have different cures for Halo 5.
>
> I think that they will make Halo 5 better than this game. Then again, I rather enjoy Halo 4.
>
> Social and Competitive playlists, with CSR in-game in the Competitive, would be nice.
>
> I have no problem with sprint, AA, Ordinance drops, and hope that it remains.

I liked REACH, I like Halo 4.

But Halo needs to go back to its roots, where it was strongest, and that is Halo 3.

13

I disagree. Kind of. I think seperate playlists will seperate the community which is not great, and that is what happened in Reach (Along with its horrible ranking system (yes it is worse than 4’s which I don’t like, but it is ok)) and killed it for myself and many of my friends.

I don’t think it is the core gameplay which needs to change, but the format. CSR is a good start, but general ranking improvements need to be made. All game modes should have a social rank which is what we have now (But maybe more Halo Reach style, using rank names rather than numbers) and a pro rank which is like Halo 3, so you can lose it and it makes that number valuable.

The second is like Halo 4’s CSR BUT we cannot see it in game. This is a problem, although it could lead to boosting etc, it is necessary. It made Halo 3 better as people see those who are better. I am not going to go into detail, I am sure 343i have got numbers and more feedback to see how they could improve and what is actually possible for Halo 5.

The biggest thing I feel, is other modes. SOPs is fantastic, 100% the best addition. However, it isn’t a fun repeatable experience to get away from War Games. In my opinion. Firefight or/and Invasion should make a return, they were great, I loved Invasion and personally, I don’t class it as MP like the other game modes, it was more fun and less intense.

Other than those, I think there are more noticeable changes that are needed. My biggest problem is there is no UNSC air vehicle… Falcon or Hornet will do. They improved the Custom Games as there were many fun games to be made and the use of air vehicles with passenger seats was fun.

That is my two cents. But then again, from the rumours around Halo 5 won’t be a problem, the console it will be on will be. X720 is looking to be very bad from the rumours (which I hope are not true) such as always-online and the kinect has to always be on. Screw both of those, and if even one is true I won’t be getting the console or Halo 5 and 6. Good job I will be able to watch walkthroughs online though to get the story.

14

While I think a classic experience is sorely needed in matchmaking, I’m not on board with the idea of reverting a large portion of the online experience to legacy settings in order to effectively give players an expansion of prior games.

The problems with this game are not exclusively due to the fact that 343 changed the formula and evolved the series. The problems legacy fans and advanced players are finding with Halo 4 are due to short-sighted design and a shoring of the game’s depth. While gamers may protest change, they will not fight it if it’s well-conceived.

Halo 4 is more accessible, but in making it more accessible, it is less interesting, a shallower experience, which affects legacy fans and advanced players more than new players.

Accessibility is not mutually exclusive with gameplay depth. Balance, fairness, intuitive mechanics, and depth of gameplay were always Halo’s biggest assets and the reason player retention was so high. Going back to prior games, if we understand why those games worked in the first place, we then can innovate future Halos in a way that serves players of all skill levels.

Halo 4 doesn’t do that. It not only has neglected the competitive playership, but the advanced playership, which are not the same.

The way we fix this game is not by splitting playerships. Balance, fairness, intuitive mechanics, and depth of gameplay, these things are good for everyone. The way we fix this game is by focusing on these things. By doing so, we ensure the game’s appeal lasts, and we retain players as they advance.

15

Good on ya… I think your approach is certainly one of the better, more thorough ones I’ve seen on this forum. If they implemented it I would be happy, I think.

However I say Halo 5 needs 3 categories: Social, Objective, and Slayer.

Social is just the fun stuff - action sack, griffball, etc. It doesn’t need to be ranked, or if it is ranked it should be silly.

It should include objective and slayer playlists and they can include the full sandbox of ordinance/loadouts/etc.

Maybe 343could incorporate Customs into the mix… this would be a great place for it…

Objective is your KOTH, Dominion, CTF, etc. Ranked would be great. Ordinance shouldn’t exist but I like the loadouts here… they’re very handy for certain gametypes. For instance I think Mobility is essential…

Slayer is what most of us play here, and it should be ranked regardless of what components it contains. I for one would like the loadouts to stay because I don’t consider them a problem… If you want ordinance to disappear then I’ll concede that in the name of compromise :slight_smile:

I think 343 has a boatload of lessons learned from ALL the Halo games, and I can’t wait to see what they come up with. Until then there’s plenty in Halo 4 to keep me happy.

16

Trying to please everyone is the first step towards failure.

343i should listen to feedback, but not try and please everyone and their little brother. It’s impossible and will end with an over ambitious and poorly created game.

What they should do is creating a quality game. Which I feel they did just that with Halo 4.

17

No game will ever please everyone. Its impossible. The more playlists you set up w/ unique playstyles, the more spread out and divided this community will be.

The only thing you need to do is make a game that is both balanced AND fun by making the default style a good mix between the two and then have some complimentary playlists that lean more towards one side or the other. Halo 1, 2, and 3 did this well while Reach (pre-TU) and Halo 4 are leaning more towards the fun side.

I don’t want to go straight back to the Halo 2/3 formula that we’ve known for almost a decade now, but I don’t like the new formula either. I want it to be Halo 2/3 at its core with elements of the new formula mixed in. I like things like assassinations, PODs, and waypoints over power weapons. I hate things like armor abilities, armor mods, flinch, and even sprint at some points as well.

The casual fan base will play the game as long as it is fun, but the competitive player will only play the game if it is balanced and fair. Finding a middle ground is this franchise’s only hope for the future b/c things just aren’t looking good right now at all.

18

> No game will ever please everyone. Its impossible. The more playlists you set up w/ unique playstyles, the more spread out and divided this community will be.
>
> The only thing you need to do is make a game that is both balanced AND fun by making the default style a good mix between the two and then have some complimentary playlists that lean more towards one side or the other. Halo 1, 2, and 3 did this well while Reach (pre-TU) and Halo 4 are leaning more towards the fun side.
>
> I don’t want to go straight back to the Halo 2/3 formula that we’ve known for almost a decade now, but I don’t like the new formula either. I want it to be Halo 2/3 at its core with elements of the new formula mixed in. I like things like assassinations, PODs, and waypoints over power weapons. I hate things like armor abilities, armor mods, flinch, and even sprint at some points as well.
>
> The casual fan base will play the game as long as it is fun, but the competitive player will only play the game if it is balanced and fair. Finding a middle ground is this franchise’s only hope for the future b/c things just aren’t looking good right now at all.

This^ except I’m okay with armour abilites, only Jetpack and Camo suck.

19

There is NO WAY of pleasing the ENTIRE community.

And that’s the simple truth, and once people understand that they might grow a bit more…forgiving.

Even if you’d go back to H2/H3 styled multiplayer what do you want exactly?
Exactly like H2? Sure would please a part of me (best Halo game period), but it would piss off those who like the relatively small tweaks in H3 better. Chose H3 styled multi and you piss off the H2 loving part.
Try to find a middle road and you’ll piss off everybody.
And that’s not even mentioning those who consider CE to be the best will be pissed off, or any of the fans of the other games.

Besides: you can’t remake that feeling anyways (nostalgia issues), nor would you be able to make the game play exactly the same. Those games played as they did because they worked “perfectly” with the rules and laws that were attributed to them (weapons, maps, gameplay etc etc)…change a little thing and it wouldn’t feel the same anyways, and people will complain AGAIN.

That’s not me saying 343i should pay no respect to the past of Halo in H5, quite the contrary. I think it would be best if we’d get more features, so that every side of the community would at least get a bit of what they want (even if they don’t get served exactly the game of their dreams).

Split multi up in playlists without AA’s and Loadouts and playlists with the new gameplay.
Bring back Spartan Ops, AND Firefight as a means to give the SO maps a replay value.
etc etc etc.

Still: in the end, you won’t get exactly what you want. I like H4, a lot of people here don’t. What will happen if you cater to the latter group only? Those who like H4 will complain and grow vocal.
Really, its a circle were in and it just keeps on repeating itself.

Just accept the game isn’t exactly your thing, but that the next time around, it might be your turn to get served again…

20

I agree with the OP it would only take a few changes.

Reach started the problem, but the best solution for the majority of the players.

  1. AAs should be removed, bring back equipment to pickup (1-2 per map, everyone shouldn’t get one.)
  2. Weapons and Power-ups Spawn on Map with some form of timed system
  3. Remove Sprint, bump up default speed. Sprint hurts a game more than anything that doesn’t have faster kill times.
  4. Reduce the smart Motion Tracker, is should only be a PING not an arrow, etc to show exactly what level the person is on. (Because they’d never make a game with it turned off which is sad)
  5. Have a BETA a year before launch, I don’t care if I even have to pay for it. (gives the competitive community a chance to look at and suggest ideas for their playlist. Pushing the competitive players away is bad for any game)