I was wondering if we have received any canon explanation for how GA-TL1 Longsword can dock inside some of the smaller UNSC ships. While I have no trouble believing that a contingent could fit aboard Carriers, Supercarriers and the various Cruiser classes, I find it hard to believe that Frigates or even Destroyers would be able to do so.
In the Fall of Reach the UNSC Commonwealth, a Paris class Frigate, apparently deployed a squadron of them on Chi Cheti IV. I doubt it could have even stored one.
A Longsword is 75 meters (246 ft) in width, 12.9 meters (42.3 ft) in height and 64.1 meters (210 ft) in length.
A Paris frigate is only 198.68 meters (651.85 ft) in width, 162.08 meters (531.77 ft) in height and 535.05 meters (1,755.4 ft) in length.
While that might make the Paris Frigate seem large, when you really compare the two (especially in terms of hanger size) it is pretty obvious that a fighter of that size cannot dock inside a ship that small. And even if it could store one, there would be barely any room left for Pelicans and other UNSC vehicles in the ship.
What is strange is that none of the various iterations of the Fall of Reach have really touched on this issue…
Has it been canonically explained?
If not, do any of you have some interesting theories on how this inconsistency could be solved?
Maybe they are docked on the top of the hanger as well as the bottom like TIE Fighters in Star Wars? Or maybe some sort of platform that moves down and stores them under the deck?
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> Frigates and Destroyers can’t house Longswords.
Pretty much this. A single C709/C712 is far too large to effectively launch, recover, and maintain from FF’s and DD’s. Their role as escorts, screening CL’s, CA’s, and CV’s from enemy actions, doesn’t necessitate detachments of such large fighter-interceptors to be embarked aboard. That’s what carriers and the enhanced hangar spaces aboard cruisers, such as Pillar of Autumn, are designed for. Carriers can detach a couple sections of fleet defense fighters to protect the battle group’s escorts.
Build enough “baby carriers” and you’re diverting countless resources from building capital ships that can effectively combat the Covenant on their lonesome. Large aviation facilities drastically shoots up labor and manufacturing costs, in addition to the time it takes to build such a large hull. Escorts were designed to be economical and built in large numbers to maintain numerical superiority, at least early in the war, and to replace losses.
That’s why the U.S. Navy isn’t embarking F-35B Lightning IIs, short/vertical take-off-and-landing strike fighters, from the decks of Arleigh Burke and Zumwalt class destroyers. Surface combatants today have drastically different roles than flattops like fleet and helicopter carriers. MH-60 Seahawk helicopters enhance the capability of surface combatants with roles such as sea control (ASW, ASuW, MCM), boarding (VBSS), rescue (Medevac, C/SAR, TRAP, plane guard), logistics (VERTREP), and transport for Marine and SEAL teams. Something like a cruiser, destroyer, or frigate today doesn’t have any substantial capability to operate strike and fleet defense fighters from their limited aviation facilities. The same goes for the future where ships on a much larger scale are required to operate even larger aircraft than ever before.
I can only assume that Longswords were carried and deployed from the Shadow of Intent in regards to Halo 3, but it could be possible that smaller craft such as Frigates and Destoryers could carry Longswords externally and it just hasn’t been talked about yet.
Honestly, 343 should produce a cross-section book of many of the vehicles, like Star Wars did, to give canonical references for fans to look into, so there wouldn’t be cases such as the infinite storage capacity ships like the Frigate seem to have.
> 2707521204561823;7:
> I can only assume that Longswords were carried and deployed from the Show of Intent in regards to Halo 3, but it could be possible that smaller craft such as Frigates and Destoryers could carry Longswords externally and it just hasn’t been talked about yet.
The problem airises here in how do you service and maintain Longswods mounted externally, or on an alien ship that isn’t equipped to handle human tech.
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> > 2707521204561823;7:
> > I can only assume that Longswords were carried and deployed from the Show of Intent in regards to Halo 3, but it could be possible that smaller craft such as Frigates and Destoryers could carry Longswords externally and it just hasn’t been talked about yet.
>
>
> The problem airises here in how do you service and maintain Longswods mounted externally, or on an alien ship that isn’t equipped to handle human tech.
Shadow of Intent is an awfully big carrier and would have likely been more than adequate to service and deploy Navy and Marine squadrons. I’m not going to pretend that UNSC and Covenant carrier operations are exactly alike but I’m sure there are some key similarities. Magazines deep within the ship for aviation ordnance is an obvious one. Fuel, liquid oxygen, hydraulic fluids, and other hazardous elements need to be in protected stores. Then you’ll have to adapt NATOPS to whatever procedures the Covenant naval air component follows to launch, recover, arm, refuel, and handle their aircraft aboard a CAS-class assault carrier. None of this would be too radically different from operating ashore or even on their own carriers. The bulkheads and deck might be painted a little flashier but that’s about it.
It’s not like UNSC combat squadrons wouldn’t be prepared or equipped to operate in austere environments. Carriers are smaller and more dangerous than the environment you’d see back on a land base. It’s pretty much controlled chaos. It’s not ideal in any sense but done safely and properly it’s just as effective.
Air operations are definitely complicated but it’s not like you can’t pick it all up from your master jet base and drop it off wherever you’d like. Whether you’re flying an F4U Corsair off Okinawa or an AV-8B Harrier from Helmand Province, you’ll still get up in the air in one piece. Unlike the muddy air strips the earliest jets took off on in the Korean War, Longswords would be are operating from a well-prepared and maintained platform already capable of operating the very aircraft that once tried to shoot them out of the sky. Most, if not all, UNSC combat aircraft seem to be V/STOL anyways. As they can take-off and land vertically there’s nothing that prohibits them from operating off Covenant ships that exclusively operate vertical lift aircraft.
Also I wrote all this watching Top Gun for the millionth time. Thank you!
> 2533274895630445;10:
> > 2533274819594227;5:
> > Frigates and Destroyers can’t house Longswords.
>
>
> I agree, but apparently they do in the lore.
The example you spoke of, with The Fall of Reach, was the very first piece of Halo canon. Being such an early entry in a universe that had yet to be properly fleshed out at that point meant it would surely run into plenty of conflict in the future. This is definitely the case when Reach came out and added so much to contradict or cause confusion as to what really happened in canon. In any case, as it was an early entry, much of it has either been glossed over or rectified in later editions.
Neither Bungie nor 343 Industries has got it completely right when it comes to things like the military. Commonwealth and her complement of a Longsword squadron is not out of the ordinary in this situation. This seems one of those errors or mysteries that has been avoided because it didn’t seem all that important nor did fans at the time raise concern.
> 2533274895630445;1:
> This might seem like nit-picking but…
>
> I was wondering if we have received any canon explanation for how GA-TL1 Longsword can dock inside some of the smaller UNSC ships. While I have no trouble believing that a contingent could fit aboard Carriers, Supercarriers and the various Cruiser classes, I find it hard to believe that Frigates or even Destroyers would be able to do so.
>
> In the Fall of Reach the UNSC Commonwealth, a Paris class Frigate, apparently deployed a squadron of them on Chi Cheti IV. I doubt it could have even stored one.
>
>
>
> - A Longsword is 75 meters (246 ft) in width, 12.9 meters (42.3 ft) in height and 64.1 meters (210 ft) in length.
>
> - A Paris frigate is only 198.68 meters (651.85 ft) in width, 162.08 meters (531.77 ft) in height and 535.05 meters (1,755.4 ft) in length.
> While that might make the Paris Frigate seem large, when you really compare the two (especially in terms of hanger size) it is pretty obvious that a fighter of that size cannot dock inside a ship that small. And even if it could store one, there would be barely any room left for Pelicans and other UNSC vehicles in the ship.
> What is strange is that none of the various iterations of the Fall of Reach have really touched on this issue…
>
> Has it been canonically explained?
> If not, do any of you have some interesting theories on how this inconsistency could be solved?
> 2533274895630445;1:
> In the Fall of Reach the UNSC Commonwealth, a Paris class Frigate, apparently deployed a squadron of them on Chi Cheti IV. I doubt it could have even stored one.
>
>
> Has it been canonically explained?
> If not, do any of you have some interesting theories on how this inconsistency could be solved?
Can you define “deploy”? I didn’t read Fall of Reach.
I’m going to go on a wing here, so I may be wrong. You assume deploy means that it came from the ship. For all I know the Commonwealth ‘deployed’ them by calling them in for support. Perhaps the squadron followed the Commonwealth as an escort.
> 2533274926304395;13:
> > 2533274895630445;1:
> > In the Fall of Reach the UNSC Commonwealth, a Paris class Frigate, apparently deployed a squadron of them on Chi Cheti IV. I doubt it could have even stored one.
> >
> > Has it been canonically explained?
> > If not, do any of you have some interesting theories on how this inconsistency could be solved?
>
>
> Can you define “deploy”? I didn’t read Fall of Reach.
>
> I’m going to go on a wing here, so I may be wrong. You assume deploy means that it came from the ship. For all I know the Commonwealth ‘deployed’ them by calling them in for support. Perhaps the squadron followed the Commonwealth as an escort.
In the novel the Battle of Chi Cheti is between 1 frigate and a Covenant vessel.
Also I doubt they followed the ship through slipspace. Maybe it could be retconned so that they were deployed from the surface as it is really only said that the Frigate captain told them to launch and sent them out.
Obviously it was meant to mean from the ship, but perhaps the animated Fall of Reach will fix this.
> 2707521204561823;7:
> I can only assume that Longswords were carried and deployed from the Show of Intent in regards to Halo 3, but it could be possible that smaller craft such as Frigates and Destoryers could carry Longswords externally and it just hasn’t been talked about yet.
>
> Honestly, 343 should produce a cross-section book of many of the vehicles, like Star Wars did, to give canonical references for fans to look into, so there wouldn’t be cases such as the infinite storage capacity ships like the Frigate seem to have.
That would be awesome addition, it would make 343i lives easier as well since they’d have a definitive source.
Despite the size difference part of it could come from the facts that A)long swords don’t require a runway and can lift off form their landing zone and also platforms/landing zones are stacked if you ever watch the CE opening where you see PoA readying for battle you see that many platform are stacked with landing both above and below them kind of like angled shelves.
Probably doesn’t solve all the inconsistencys but should help somewhat.
(Why the hangar bay we see at the end of CE with the one remaing platform housing a single lo sword is placed like that seems to be merely game play/cinematic reasonings same goes for why there are individual bays along the sides of the same hangar as its shown longswords font require this kind of storage/landing area.
We know that there is a huge version of the longsword (Halo CE) and there are smaller versions (Halo 3, Reach). It’s possible that the Commonwealth and other frigates carry the smaller version (perhaps with folding wings for storage convenience) and larger ships like POA can carry the larger model.
Was the forward unto dawn the only ship that went to the ark? I know it was the only one that made it back but there could have been other bigger ones.
