Excuse my language but this is complete and utter BS with halo 4. Someone please explain to me how the UNSC recovered so quickly from the human-covenant war so quickly they became the main powerhouse of the Galaxy?
-The covenant wrecked the UNSC to the point where Earth was the only known planet left, there may be planets like Harvest that in deep space but have no value.
-An entire continent was glassed as Earth was invaded
-The ENTIRE UNSC Navy had only a handful of ships during the battle of Earth to the point the Navy could only spare three frigates. I highly dbout there was any Valiant or marathon classes left.
-in the mean time, they build the Infinity, the largest, most expensive, most advanced ship in exiestence somehow without the covenant finding Oort cloud? The covenant had more fleets up there a•• more then we know.
-how did they afford a new SPARTAN Program while there LAST bastion is being attacked?
-How they afford GEN 2 power armor where one prob cost 1/2 of entire Navy battle fleet?
-Arguementation isn’t cheap either?
-How the hell did the Navy recover so quickly? They now have carriers and battleships. There’s no way theres that many shipyards that produce huge warships on earth and even if they do, it take years to build vessels like that.
You think with humanity nearly destroyed, they focus on reconstruction and resettling new worlds. How can you possibly afford major reconstruction efforts while having a military force more advanced then the covenant military that had most of there tech based on forunner tech.
am not trying to rant but seriously it doesn’t make any sense, has anyone ever thought of logistics or supplies? How do you construct this powerful battleship while everything is getting destroyed around you?
Without going into details - check how technology progressed and how many tanks, aircraft and battleships were built during and shortly after World War II.
USSR developed tank is-3 during WWII and started it’s mass production. Tank was not successful and was removed from production within 2 years (at 1946), during those 2 years more than 1500 units were built…and that considering that USSR lost ~20 million people.
USA built 4 Iowa class battleships and more than 20 Essex-class aircraft carriers during the war.
This is called “War effort”, you obviously do not care about money, since during such times money is a meaningless paper, it all goes to real values - availability of materials, production and human resources.
While some of the details you mention aren’t exactly true (Shadow of Intent glassed the city of Voi only, not ‘half a continent’ as Hood stated), I completely agree with the essence of your complaint.
Several colonies did survive the war, but a massive number of them were lost, and human casualties were somewhere around 28 billion - we were teetering on the edge of extinction. And you could not be more right about logistics. Every time a colony got glassed, the UEG/UNSC would have lost all the natural resources, commercial products, economic power, taxable income, labor pools and more that attended it. They would have been CONSTANTLY struggling to resource parts and raw materials used in their industries - to reroute shipping routes, to replace grieving employees who leave work after they learned that their families had just been vaporized, and so much more besides.
I get that the breaking of the Covenant would have a destabilizing effect on the client species and that they would all be weaker compared to the Empire, but they still left humanity in tatters, and not a whole lot of what we’ve seen in the post war period has really reflected that at all. We should NOT be the power players we apparently are already.
This whole subject is extremely fuzzy. How did the Soviet Union become a world power after their devastating losses in WWII, while then-superpower Great Britain fell into comparative irrelevance? Economic trends are difficult to predict when you’re considering reality, let alone a theoretical far-future civilisation. Though the whole space colonisation thing probably helped - war aside, it’s difficult to see how such an economy could ever be in recession.
Untrue, Covenant explicitly skipped over many inner colonies to get straight to Earth because of the portal. That humanity was there at all was completely unknown to them.
Firstly, Hood says only half so even using his exaggeration you’re still wrong, and secondly, it was an exaggeration.
At Earth, perhaps, but elsewhere? Do you have a source?
The Infinity was in production for 20 years before the end of Halo 3. It was so well hidden, no one could find it, Covenant or human. It was a massive investment for them.
Spartan IV was being in production for quite a long time. It is the logical conclusion to the Spartan III program, which was getting along just fine right up to the moment Earth was attacked. The fall of a handful of Earth cities and one Orbital Elevator doesn’t mean the UNSC is suddenly crippled or incapable of funding large projects; I mean, they’re an interstellar empire. Why is it that no one ever complains about MJOLNIR mark V and VI being produced within months of each other? The UNSC clearly was economically stable enough to churn out new tech at a steady rate, and contrry to popular belief, Earth was more or less intact after the Covenant attacked. They focused on East Africa. The UNSC wasn’t too badly hurt from the battle, economically speaking.
Read somewhere that Gen 2 is only the cost of a drop ship, but again, no one ever complains that Mark 6 was in production with a dozen or so variants immediately before the battle of Earth.
Augmentation isn’t like buying groceries but the tech has improved to the point where it is affordable.
Earth isn’t the only shipyard. In fact, Earth=/=all of the UNSC
Covenant tech was a cheap knock off of Forerunner tech. The UNSC was better at reverse engineering, and had been doing so for decades. The new advances didn’t appear until towards the end of the war, and after.
The whole “humanity was economically crippled how did they recover?” argument is based almost entirely on an assumption because we have no idea what exactly the state of their economy was in. And what evidence we do have in fact opposes that argument, given the UNSC was still pumping out new MJOLNIR Gen 1–far more expensive than Gen2 I might add–right up to the moment Earth got attacked. But seeing as how Earth isn’t their primary manufacturing planet, Earth falling didn’t impact production. More than that, Earth was barely damaged in the battle at all, as almost all efforts were focused squarely on the region around Mt. Kilimanjaro.
So what your saying after 400 years of colonization, they recovered 400 years of colonization in 4 years and capable of producing captial warships like there being produced off a conveyer belt. I highly dbout a GEN II suit cost as much as a Pelican, they do the same as GEN 1 plus the robotics/mechanicals since they do not have all Augumentations/implants.
i think humanity would focusing on reconstruction and expansion first before blowing all there resources on protoype equipment and military assets that require so much resources. Why do we need the infinity for no one really poses a threat? Brutes and elites are in civil wars so there no threat. The UNSC should of focused on fixing what they lost first and upgrade existing classes of ship. I can’t even imangine much resources it require for Maintence of all those ships,
i may not my halo lore upto date(I rather hate the post-war era to be honest) but from certain points, the whole post war UNSC is fake and really shouldn’t exiest. I could see the UNSC the way it is now with its military in about 20-30 years in 2580 or 90’s but not now.
Ya good question dude I agree you would think the unsc would be rebuilding and trying to maintain outer alliances but halo 4 is just like so remember that war Ya me neither
> 2533274798011936;8:
> In order of listed appearance.
>
> 1) Untrue, Covenant explicitly skipped over many inner colonies to get straight to Earth because of the portal. That humanity was there at all was completely unknown to them.
>
> 2) Firstly, Hood says only half so even using his exaggeration you’re still wrong, and secondly, it was an exaggeration.
>
> 3) At Earth, perhaps, but elsewhere? Do you have a source?
>
> 4) The Infinity was in production for 20 years before the end of Halo 3. It was so well hidden, no one could find it, Covenant or human. It was a massive investment for them.
>
> 5) Spartan IV was being in production for quite a long time. It is the logical conclusion to the Spartan III program, which was getting along just fine right up to the moment Earth was attacked. The fall of a handful of Earth cities and one Orbital Elevator doesn’t mean the UNSC is suddenly crippled or incapable of funding large projects; I mean, they’re an interstellar empire. Why is it that no one ever complains about MJOLNIR mark V and VI being produced within months of each other? The UNSC clearly was economically stable enough to churn out new tech at a steady rate, and contrry to popular belief, Earth was more or less intact after the Covenant attacked. They focused on East Africa. The UNSC wasn’t too badly hurt from the battle, economically speaking.
>
> 6) Read somewhere that Gen 2 is only the cost of a drop ship, but again, no one ever complains that Mark 6 was in production with a dozen or so variants immediately before the battle of Earth.
>
> 7) Augmentation isn’t like buying groceries but the tech has improved to the point where it is affordable.
>
> 8) Earth isn’t the only shipyard. In fact, Earth=/=all of the UNSC
>
> 9) Covenant tech was a cheap knock off of Forerunner tech. The UNSC was better at reverse engineering, and had been doing so for decades. The new advances didn’t appear until towards the end of the war, and after.
>
> The whole “humanity was economically crippled how did they recover?” argument is based almost entirely on an assumption because we have no idea what exactly the state of their economy was in. And what evidence we do have in fact opposes that argument, given the UNSC was still pumping out new MJOLNIR Gen 1–far more expensive than Gen2 I might add–right up to the moment Earth got attacked. But seeing as how Earth isn’t their primary manufacturing planet, Earth falling didn’t impact production. More than that, Earth was barely damaged in the battle at all, as almost all efforts were focused squarely on the region around Mt. Kilimanjaro.
Still he’s basing his theory on historical background the unsc was in complete shambles in halo 3 remember the first scene when they have to abandon most bases and head to ruins and have limited supplies.
> 2535420556251655;3:
> Without going into details - check how technology progressed and how many tanks, aircraft and battleships were built during and shortly after World War II.
>
> USSR developed tank is-3 during WWII and started it’s mass production. Tank was not successful and was removed from production within 2 years (at 1946), during those 2 years more than 1500 units were built…and that considering that USSR lost ~20 million people.
>
> USA built 4 Iowa class battleships and more than 20 Essex-class aircraft carriers during the war.
>
> This is called “War effort”, you obviously do not care about money, since during such times money is a meaningless paper, it all goes to real values - availability of materials, production and human resources.
True but we aren’t building simple tanks and jets man we are talking huge massive battle cruisers Spartan armor and marine armor, future technology experiments items that need to take time. Warp drives? Can’t quickly produce warp speed dude. Look man just a little realistic after a war the economy of a country declines as repairs to Infrastructure are necessary marines need to be paid and insurance policies for dead soldiers too.
> 2533274808462402;9:
> So what your saying after 400 years of colonization, they recovered 400 years of colonization in 4 years and capable of producing captial warships like there being produced off a conveyer belt. I highly dbout a GEN II suit cost as much as a Pelican, they do the same as GEN 1 plus the robotics/mechanicals since they do not have all Augumentations/implants.
>
> i think humanity would focusing on reconstruction and expansion first before blowing all there resources on protoype equipment and military assets that require so much resources. Why do we need the infinity for no one really poses a threat? Brutes and elites are in civil wars so there no threat. The UNSC should of focused on fixing what they lost first and upgrade existing classes of ship. I can’t even imangine much resources it require for Maintence of all those ships,
>
> i may not my halo lore upto date(I rather hate the post-war era to be honest) but from certain points, the whole post war UNSC is fake and really shouldn’t exiest. I could see the UNSC the way it is now with its military in about 20-30 years in 2580 or 90’s but not now.
Infinity’s purpose is threefold: to be a vessel of exploration, finding new worlds along with the remaining Halos. And to be a flagship vessel for humanity in the event of Earth falling, a very real danger. Did you just… not pay attention to dialogue in Halo 4 or any of its advertising?
No, humanity is not even close to recovering the full time of their colonisation. During the campaign for Requiem, Infinity’s only other support was ten Strident-class frigates and three Vindication-class light battleships which are decidedly not capital ships of any sort. You’re completely exaggerating that point.
Additionally, humanity literally has access to a Shield World the size of two astronomical units that came with an abundance of Forerunner technology and Huragok since 2553 which made the integration of new technologies far easier…
> 2533274808462402;9:
> So what your saying after 400 years of colonization, they recovered 400 years of colonization in 4 years and capable of producing captial warships like there being produced off a conveyer belt. I highly dbout a GEN II suit cost as much as a Pelican, they do the same as GEN 1 plus the robotics/mechanicals since they do not have all Augumentations/implants.
>
> i think humanity would focusing on reconstruction and expansion first before blowing all there resources on protoype equipment and military assets that require so much resources. Why do we need the infinity for no one really poses a threat? Brutes and elites are in civil wars so there no threat. The UNSC should of focused on fixing what they lost first and upgrade existing classes of ship. I can’t even imangine much resources it require for Maintence of all those ships,
>
> i may not my halo lore upto date(I rather hate the post-war era to be honest) but from certain points, the whole post war UNSC is fake and really shouldn’t exiest. I could see the UNSC the way it is now with its military in about 20-30 years in 2580 or 90’s but not now.
While I agree with the confusion about how the UNSC is rebuilding so fast, I will say I definitely do understand them throwing all the spare resources they have at military tech. That is a very understandable development after three decades of genocidal war. Generations have grown up knowing nothing but war by this point. There is a desire to never be caught with our pants down again, a desire to make sure the Covenant never rebuilds itself into such a terrible threat again, there is a dash of humanity’s intrinsic love of conflict, and there is a very large and powerful interstellar military industrial complex now that undoubtedly has its fingers in everything, and will seek to keep its bottom line well-served through lobbying and pulling what UEG strings they have a grasp on. It’s very much analogous to the U.S.'s military growth/focus after World War II. It’s a miracle that the UNSC ceded a lot of the emergency powers they had from the war (thank you, Lord Hood), but humanity is in many ways a military culture by the 2550’s.
So I’m actually totally able to believe that the UNSC is pouring a ton of resources into their military in the post-war period, and I’d be willing to bet that it’s coming at the expense of the reconstruction efforts that you say (and I agree) they should be focusing on. My problem is that despite this focus, how in the heck do they have the ability to ramp up so quickly in so very little time? I don’t see that being physically possible (even with the Infinity, which I understand was in development for a long time before the end of the war).
More than any of the logic though, I feel that from a storytelling perspective, having us bounce back so quickly cheapens the weight and sacrifice of the lore up until then. Things were portrayed as very desperate, even if some colonies escaped glassing and Earth didn’t get too roughed up. Something about the emotional weight of the overall narrative is diminished if humanity just auto-heals, I think. We should have to deal with the fallout of what happened, we should see some consequences before rushing off to defeat the next galaxy-threatening evil.
And I’m not saying 343 isn’t aware of this or addressing it in some ways. The Hunt the Truth campaign was magnificent - we got to see (hear?) the rise of hate groups like Sapien Sunrise, ONI embracing more and more of its worst qualities, the desolation of a glassed world, and the messed-up silicate industries that spring up to profit off of the misery we endured. All of this is gold and I want much more of it. My only complaint is the UNSC rebuilding and beefing up so very rapidly. Maybe there’s a reason for it and it makes sense, but I would really like to learn about it at least so it doesn’t seem so puzzling anymore.
> 2533274864077129;11:
> > 2533274798011936;8:
> > In order of listed appearance.
> >
> > 1) Untrue, Covenant explicitly skipped over many inner colonies to get straight to Earth because of the portal. That humanity was there at all was completely unknown to them.
> >
> > 2) Firstly, Hood says only half so even using his exaggeration you’re still wrong, and secondly, it was an exaggeration.
> >
> > 3) At Earth, perhaps, but elsewhere? Do you have a source?
> >
> > 4) The Infinity was in production for 20 years before the end of Halo 3. It was so well hidden, no one could find it, Covenant or human. It was a massive investment for them.
> >
> > 5) Spartan IV was being in production for quite a long time. It is the logical conclusion to the Spartan III program, which was getting along just fine right up to the moment Earth was attacked. The fall of a handful of Earth cities and one Orbital Elevator doesn’t mean the UNSC is suddenly crippled or incapable of funding large projects; I mean, they’re an interstellar empire. Why is it that no one ever complains about MJOLNIR mark V and VI being produced within months of each other? The UNSC clearly was economically stable enough to churn out new tech at a steady rate, and contrry to popular belief, Earth was more or less intact after the Covenant attacked. They focused on East Africa. The UNSC wasn’t too badly hurt from the battle, economically speaking.
> >
> > 6) Read somewhere that Gen 2 is only the cost of a drop ship, but again, no one ever complains that Mark 6 was in production with a dozen or so variants immediately before the battle of Earth.
> >
> > 7) Augmentation isn’t like buying groceries but the tech has improved to the point where it is affordable.
> >
> > 8) Earth isn’t the only shipyard. In fact, Earth=/=all of the UNSC
> >
> > 9) Covenant tech was a cheap knock off of Forerunner tech. The UNSC was better at reverse engineering, and had been doing so for decades. The new advances didn’t appear until towards the end of the war, and after.
> >
> > The whole “humanity was economically crippled how did they recover?” argument is based almost entirely on an assumption because we have no idea what exactly the state of their economy was in. And what evidence we do have in fact opposes that argument, given the UNSC was still pumping out new MJOLNIR Gen 1–far more expensive than Gen2 I might add–right up to the moment Earth got attacked. But seeing as how Earth isn’t their primary manufacturing planet, Earth falling didn’t impact production. More than that, Earth was barely damaged in the battle at all, as almost all efforts were focused squarely on the region around Mt. Kilimanjaro.
>
>
> Still he’s basing his theory on historical background the unsc was in complete shambles in halo 3 remember the first scene when they have to abandon most bases and head to ruins and have limited supplies.
>
>
> > 2535420556251655;3:
> > Without going into details - check how technology progressed and how many tanks, aircraft and battleships were built during and shortly after World War II.
> >
> > USSR developed tank is-3 during WWII and started it’s mass production. Tank was not successful and was removed from production within 2 years (at 1946), during those 2 years more than 1500 units were built…and that considering that USSR lost ~20 million people.
> >
> > USA built 4 Iowa class battleships and more than 20 Essex-class aircraft carriers during the war.
> >
> > This is called “War effort”, you obviously do not care about money, since during such times money is a meaningless paper, it all goes to real values - availability of materials, production and human resources.
>
>
> True but we aren’t building simple tanks and jets man we are talking huge massive battle cruisers Spartan armor and marine armor, future technology experiments items that need to take time. Warp drives? Can’t quickly produce warp speed dude. Look man just a little realistic after a war the economy of a country declines as repairs to Infrastructure are necessary marines need to be paid and insurance policies for dead soldiers too.
You’re massively overestimating the damage that was done. Plenty of human worlds were almost completely untouched, including Inner Colonies with developed infrastructure. We didn’t have to build back up to our previous tech level, we had shipyards and factories that kept on operating right through the war.
I’m also pretty sure Hunt The Truth covered the UNSC’s policy on veteran benefits.
> 2533274808462402;9:
> So what your saying after 400 years of colonization, they recovered 400 years of colonization in 4 years and capable of producing captial warships like there being produced off a conveyer belt. I highly dbout a GEN II suit cost as much as a Pelican, they do the same as GEN 1 plus the robotics/mechanicals since they do not have all Augumentations/implants.
>
> i think humanity would focusing on reconstruction and expansion first before blowing all there resources on protoype equipment and military assets that require so much resources. Why do we need the infinity for no one really poses a threat? Brutes and elites are in civil wars so there no threat. The UNSC should of focused on fixing what they lost first and upgrade existing classes of ship. I can’t even imangine much resources it require for Maintence of all those ships,
>
> i may not my halo lore upto date(I rather hate the post-war era to be honest) but from certain points, the whole post war UNSC is fake and really shouldn’t exiest. I could see the UNSC the way it is now with its military in about 20-30 years in 2580 or 90’s but not now.
They didn’t lose 400 years of colonization or have to make it all up though. The technology is all still there, and is much more advanced than it was even at the start of the war. They have new methods and materials and concepts to build up their fleet and military quickly. It’s not dictated by a normal economy, so the UNSC can practically use whatever they want to get humanity on its feet.
Gen 2 is lighter but more advanced, meaning it uses newer techniques and methods to assemble and fit. It doesn’t cost much, which was the entire point of the SpartanIV and GEN 2 programs.
No threat? Are you aware that human colonies have been glassed after the war ended? Insurrection is rising again?
Of course they need to rebuild, and they are. A lot of private companies are actually taking the reigns on that. But the UNSC is focused on making sure that we survive long enough to rebuild. To say there are no threats is just utterly incorrect.
And they are upgrading existing ships and models. The Autumn-Class Cruiser was inspired by the Pillar of Autumn’s designs, and it was said that many retired Halcyons had been taken out of storage.
Infinity was under construction for 20 years, intended to be a last resort for humanity. Either a game changer in battle, unlikely, or a vessel to hold the last of humanity if they flee. Now it has numerous purposes, especially with exploration and research. Before being pulled away to respond to Jul’s Covenant, it was helping in the discovery and decommission of the Halo rings.
A lot of what the UNSC’s power currently is is an illusion of mass-production and desperation. There’s also the artificial help from alien technologies, especially the Forerunners and the numerous engineers recovered from the Covenant’s fallout.
Can you blame them? I always wanted to see her in a game since I read the book fall of reach years ago.
back to subject though, it just doesn’t sound feasible to me to what there doing right now. I dbout that many worlds that focused on manufacturing good survived, from what I remember most planets that aren’t glassed are like harvest, settlement world with no real value yet. I never understood why the UNSC fought a five year campaign over Harvest, harvest never had any true value.
Am pretty sure the Poseidon-class, Autumn-class and the Vindicatiom class are captial ships.
> 2533274808462402;17:
> I dbout that many worlds that focused on manufacturing good survived, from what I remember most planets that aren’t glassed are like harvest, settlement world with no real value yet.
There’s your problem. Many worlds focused on manufacturing did survive.
The covies made two big jumps into UNSC space with Reach and Earth. They hit Earth due to accident based on its importance to the Ark.
If earth was the only colony worth its dirt before the great schism, people would not have been so easy going before the invasion in h2.
> 2533274808462402;17:
> I never understood why the UNSC fought a five year campaign over Harvest, harvest never had any true value.
The campaign for Harvest was not a brilliant strategic move on humanity’s part - it was more fueled by pride and the desire to win a symbolic victory over the Covenant (and to be fair, only five years or less into the war. I don’t think we quite understood yet just how massive and powerful of a military force we were really up against - there were still 22 years of war left to go by the end of the Harvest campaign).
> 2533274964189700;18:
> > 2533274808462402;17:
> >
>
>
> There’s your problem. Many worlds focused on manufacturing did survive.
> The covies made two big jumps into UNSC space with Reach and Earth. They hit Earth due to accident based on its importance to the Ark.
Yeah, the outer colonies were pretty much wiped out by the end of the 2530’s (yes I know a few were missed, but as a group they were essentially done). After that, the Covenant were in our Inner Colony systems, destroying our industries. So while yes, major industrial hubs such as Mars did in fact survive the war un-glassed, we lost plenty of large, populated, productive worlds beyond just Reach.
And here’s the thing; even for the manufacturing centers that did survive the war, I guarantee that they did not produce every part, component and raw material they used on the same planet. Industry requires a pretty significant supply chain, and its that more than anything that would have been constantly and repeatedly devastated during the war. One day you’re pumping out gausshogs for the UNSC and the next you wake up to learn that the world which supplied the magnetic coils used in the gun had been lost. Suddenly you deplete your inventory and production has to stop until you can find a new supplier. Then just a month after fixing that problem and entering another production cycle, the world that provided your drive shafts is knocked out. Production halts again. Then, while you’re finding a new source of drive shafts, the new manufacturer you had found for the magnetic coils messes up their latest shipment because they’re new to that product and are ruining several batches as they learn how to fit it into their own processing systems. After you finally resolve both of those issues and squeeze out a few more lots of hogs, one of the worlds where your rare metal components are sent to as a secondary processing step before being shipped to you is glassed.
Every time a world that provided even one component of your finished good is hit and lost, everything else has to grind to a halt until you can compensate and recalibrate. And this would be happening for every single piece of military hardware that Misriah or any of the other MilTech companies produce - from the assault rifle to the capital ship.
Furthermore, as the war progressed and human casualties climbed into the billions, the skilled labor pool would definitely have been drying up. Engineers, chemists, biotechs and much more would be harder and harder to find. If one of them quit their job at your company for any reason, it would be getting harder and harder to find replacements. Especially as the war dragged on and more people opted to enlist with the UNSC and fight instead of going forward with their education to get qualified for such jobs. AIs could probably have helped to compensate for this, but it is just one more complication/headache to heap on top of all the other problems I listed already.