How did the Forerunners defeat the Precursors

Community Halo Universe
1

Hate the lack of punctuation in the title but ran out of space. :stuck_out_tongue: (As you can tell I’m a compulsive perfectionist)

So, on topic! How did the Forerunners manage to defeat the Precursors? The trans-sentient’s. The Gods. Who created life and destroyed it at whim. They were apparently beyond the constraints of reality, able to bend the universe itself in their image.

So… How? The Forerunners are impressive, yes, but they are simply no match against the Precursors. Did they use the Organon? Or maybe the Precursors are ‘mortal.’ Can be killed by physical means.

2

Maybe they took control of the precursors technology, and as time went on they simply forgot how they did it.

3

The organon…Probably.

Its never really explained but they probably used the organon in some way.

4

Harsh language.

5

They took a precursor ship and fired at another precursor ship.

6

Greg bear is probably banging his head as we speak trying to explain this. Seeing forerunner weaponry in halo 4 that is from the flood war, leads me to believe that the forerunner are not as advanced as I once thought. I mean come on, they still need to reload? and that light rifle should be 1 shotting master chief. For a civilization eons more advanced than us, Its not that impressive. If the precursor are really tier 0, then I’m guessing they will be something like the aliens from the end of the knowing. There is no way the forerunner should have been able to defeat them.

7

> Greg bear is probably banging his head as we speak trying to explain this. Seeing forerunner weaponry in halo 4 that is from the flood war, leads me to believe that the forerunner are not as advanced as I once thought. I mean come on, they still need to reload? and that light rifle should be 1 shotting master chief. For a civilization eons more advanced than us, Its not that impressive. If the precursor are really tier 0, then I’m guessing they will be something like the aliens from the end of the knowing. There is no way the forerunner should have been able to defeat them.

I think that’s for gameplay, man…

Why canonize gameplay? There’d be no fun being one-shotted. :confused:

Maybe in terms of canon the weapons ARE that powerful. Like how a plasma rifle will burn a Spartans armour, yet in-game you can shrug off about 12 shots before dying without shields in Reach.

8

If I am remembering this correctly, all Precursor structures were explained as being made of some sort of material that can be controlled with thought, or itself contained some sort of memory. Not the type of memory that, say a person has, but the type of memory that may be contained in a tree. Sort of a genetic memory, a self building process.

I had always thought that the Forerunners found a way to attack, and destroy these type of materials. Similar to how a Neutron bomb works, destroying mostly organic materials. Leaving nothing behind but Precursors that were unable to seek shelter or defend themselves from physical attacks.

In Cryptum

The Master Builder; Faber, was able to destroy The Captive’s/Primordial’s containment building and nothing else (Well, I believe also a large number of San 'Shyuum, I have to re-read that book.) using the stolen Halo.
Maybe the Halo’s “payload” was originally designed millennia ago in another form to combat the Precursors by targeting only their materials, weapons, and vehicles. While leaving the Forerunners and their weapons of war untouched.

^ Just a theory.

9

> If I am remembering this correctly, all Precursor structures were explained as being made of some sort of material that can be controlled with thought, or itself contained some sort of memory. Not the type of memory that, say a person has, but the type of memory that may be contained in a tree. Sort of a genetic memory, a self building process.
>
> I had always thought that the Forerunners found a way to attack, and destroy these type of materials. Similar to how a Neutron bomb works, destroying mostly organic materials. Leaving nothing behind but Precursors that were unable to seek shelter or defend themselves from physical attacks.
>
> In Cryptum
>
>
> The Master Builder; Faber, was able to destroy The Captive’s/Primordial’s containment building and nothing else (Well, I believe also a large number of San 'Shyuum, I have to re-read that book.) using the stolen Halo.
> Maybe the Halo’s “payload” was originally designed millennia ago in another form to combat the Precursors by targeting only their materials, weapons, and vehicles. While leaving the Forerunners and their weapons of war untouched.
>
>
>
>
> ^ Just a theory.

Yeah, I thought as much. Perhaps the technology behind the Halo array was in fact used first against the Precursors.

10

i’ve been thinking about this for quite some time now and there are issues. normally i’d say: it’s fiction. Sauron wasn’t undefeated in LOTRs - you don’t need an undefeated foe to make him scary and seemingly invincible…
but then there’s this huuuuuuuge plot hole in this part of halo’s history - and by hole i mean exactly that, not an inconsistency: the forerunner have x technologies focused on preserving memories for millions of years, they can transfer minds into machines etc… yet the lost all of their accounts on the precursor-forerunner war.
i’m not sure, but i have the strong feeling that something important is hidden in this hole in forerunner history…

11

forerunner technology is aggressive and based on domination. All races have gaps in their history so it isn’t odd that the forerunners do after millions of years, just that an event happened 50,000 years ago with them like the humans.

12

> > Greg bear is probably banging his head as we speak trying to explain this. Seeing forerunner weaponry in halo 4 that is from the flood war, leads me to believe that the forerunner are not as advanced as I once thought. I mean come on, they still need to reload? and that light rifle should be 1 shotting master chief. For a civilization eons more advanced than us, Its not that impressive. If the precursor are really tier 0, then I’m guessing they will be something like the aliens from the end of the knowing. There is no way the forerunner should have been able to defeat them.
>
> I think that’s for gameplay, man…
>
> Why canonize gameplay? There’d be no fun being one-shotted. :confused:
>
> Maybe in terms of canon the weapons ARE that powerful. Like how a plasma rifle will burn a Spartans armour, yet in-game you can shrug off about 12 shots before dying without shields in Reach.

yea, i know it’s for gameplay, its just that by attempting to balance the forerunner weapons out, 343i is destroying their image and reputation as the most advanced species(besides the precursor, and in my opinion the ancient humans). Why these promethean knights don’t seem that tough when you think about.

Honestly, i’ve always hated the concept of dumbing things down for gameplay. It is lazy, and is a crime to the canon, which 343i so often praises. In fact, i still don’t like the fact that we are even fighting forerunner constructs (or should i say fodder sentinel AI’s). If the forerunner are really as advanced as the novels make them out to be, then show it in the games! Or at least make the humans more advanced to compensate for it, it’s hard to believe that the light rifle is about as effective as. . .say a BR, and weaker than a covenant beam rifle.

It’s pathetic, these pieces of garbage are tier-1 level? They’re no better than the covenant.

13

> > > Greg bear is probably banging his head as we speak trying to explain this. Seeing forerunner weaponry in halo 4 that is from the flood war, leads me to believe that the forerunner are not as advanced as I once thought. I mean come on, they still need to reload? and that light rifle should be 1 shotting master chief. For a civilization eons more advanced than us, Its not that impressive. If the precursor are really tier 0, then I’m guessing they will be something like the aliens from the end of the knowing. There is no way the forerunner should have been able to defeat them.
> >
> > I think that’s for gameplay, man…
> >
> > Why canonize gameplay? There’d be no fun being one-shotted. :confused:
> >
> > Maybe in terms of canon the weapons ARE that powerful. Like how a plasma rifle will burn a Spartans armour, yet in-game you can shrug off about 12 shots before dying without shields in Reach.
>
> yea, i know it’s for gameplay, its just that by attempting to balance the forerunner weapons out, 343i is destroying their image and reputation as the most advanced species(besides the precursor, and in my opinion the ancient humans). Why these promethean knights don’t seem that tough when you think about.
>
> Honestly, i’ve always hated the concept of dumbing things down for gameplay. It is lazy, and is a crime to the canon, which 343i so often praises. In fact, i still don’t like the fact that we are even fighting forerunner constructs (or should i say fodder sentinel AI’s). If the forerunner are really as advanced as the novels make them out to be, then show it in the games! Or at least make the humans more advanced to compensate for it, it’s hard to believe that the light rifle is about as effective as. . .say a BR, and weaker than a covenant beam rifle.
>
> It’s pathetic, these pieces of garbage are tier-1 level? They’re no better than the covenant.

Did the possibility ever occur to you that they weren’t actually trying to kill the Chief at the time? I mean they do in fact one shot that Elite but then fight the Chief hand to hand. Why? Maybe it was because they were attempting to wound him or disable him and not straight up kill him, or else they’d just vaporize him like they did the Elite.

14

> > > > Greg bear is probably banging his head as we speak trying to explain this. Seeing forerunner weaponry in halo 4 that is from the flood war, leads me to believe that the forerunner are not as advanced as I once thought. I mean come on, they still need to reload? and that light rifle should be 1 shotting master chief. For a civilization eons more advanced than us, Its not that impressive. If the precursor are really tier 0, then I’m guessing they will be something like the aliens from the end of the knowing. There is no way the forerunner should have been able to defeat them.
> > >
> > > I think that’s for gameplay, man…
> > >
> > > Why canonize gameplay? There’d be no fun being one-shotted. :confused:
> > >
> > > Maybe in terms of canon the weapons ARE that powerful. Like how a plasma rifle will burn a Spartans armour, yet in-game you can shrug off about 12 shots before dying without shields in Reach.
> >
> > yea, i know it’s for gameplay, its just that by attempting to balance the forerunner weapons out, 343i is destroying their image and reputation as the most advanced species(besides the precursor, and in my opinion the ancient humans). Why these promethean knights don’t seem that tough when you think about.
> >
> > Honestly, i’ve always hated the concept of dumbing things down for gameplay. It is lazy, and is a crime to the canon, which 343i so often praises. In fact, i still don’t like the fact that we are even fighting forerunner constructs (or should i say fodder sentinel AI’s). If the forerunner are really as advanced as the novels make them out to be, then show it in the games! Or at least make the humans more advanced to compensate for it, it’s hard to believe that the light rifle is about as effective as. . .say a BR, and weaker than a covenant beam rifle.
> >
> > It’s pathetic, these pieces of garbage are tier-1 level? They’re no better than the covenant.
>
> Did the possibility ever occur to you that they weren’t actually trying to kill the Chief at the time? I mean they do in fact one shot that Elite but then fight the Chief hand to hand. Why? Maybe it was because they were attempting to wound him or disable him and not straight up kill him, or else they’d just vaporize him like they did the Elite.

That’s actually an amazing point. A little off topic but still, I hadn’t considered that.

15

My guess is that the forerunners used an powerful AI to hack the precursor technology and use it against the unexpecting precursors

16

or, maybe the precursors weren’t a warring race. Maybe they were way more advance in medical fields and star-ship drives then war stuff. Or more scientific minded then war/strategic minded. Hopefully soon we find out. Just cant wait!

17

Wait, where did we hear that the precursors faught the forerunners anyway? Was it that lying primordial?

18

> > > Greg bear is probably banging his head as we speak trying to explain this. Seeing forerunner weaponry in halo 4 that is from the flood war, leads me to believe that the forerunner are not as advanced as I once thought. I mean come on, they still need to reload? and that light rifle should be 1 shotting master chief. For a civilization eons more advanced than us, Its not that impressive. If the precursor are really tier 0, then I’m guessing they will be something like the aliens from the end of the knowing. There is no way the forerunner should have been able to defeat them.
> >
> > I think that’s for gameplay, man…
> >
> > Why canonize gameplay? There’d be no fun being one-shotted. :confused:
> >
> > Maybe in terms of canon the weapons ARE that powerful. Like how a plasma rifle will burn a Spartans armour, yet in-game you can shrug off about 12 shots before dying without shields in Reach.
>
> yea, i know it’s for gameplay, its just that by attempting to balance the forerunner weapons out, 343i is destroying their image and reputation as the most advanced species(besides the precursor, and in my opinion the ancient humans). Why these promethean knights don’t seem that tough when you think about.
>
> Honestly, i’ve always hated the concept of dumbing things down for gameplay. It is lazy, and is a crime to the canon, which 343i so often praises. In fact, i still don’t like the fact that we are even fighting forerunner constructs (or should i say fodder sentinel AI’s). If the forerunner are really as advanced as the novels make them out to be, then show it in the games! Or at least make the humans more advanced to compensate for it, it’s hard to believe that the light rifle is about as effective as. . .say a BR, and weaker than a covenant beam rifle.
>
> It’s pathetic, these pieces of garbage are tier-1 level? They’re no better than the covenant.

We’ve been fighting Forerunner constructs all throughout the Halo series, constructs which would have had real Forerunner shields and weaponry, and they were never that impressive.

It may be that the Forerunner were tier 1 but have you ever considered that was more because of their non-military tech and their ability to manufacture planet sized mechanisms?

The Covenant have been reverse engineering the more accessible Forerunner technology for thousands of years with the aid of Engineers designed by the Forerunner themselves and while they might not know the advanced manufacturing processes that the Forerunner employed among other things the aspects of the technology they have successfully copied would be every bit as effective as the Forerunner equivalent.

Covenant technology would logically only be inferior when they had no example to copy from or couldn’t figure out some aspect of the design and when it comes to force fields or plasma weapons I doubt they could be copied at all unless the main aspects were understood properly.

So basically my understanding is that the Covenant’s technological progress is very uneven due to certain Forerunner technologies being less accessible then others but in several aspects it’s almost as advanced as the Forerunner’s own, primarily in reproducing the capabilities of the simpler or more common artifacts.

Anyhow the Sentinels were a clear sign that we’ve been overestimating the capabilities of small scale Forerunner technology for as long as Halo has existed and that when it comes to smaller scale technology the Covenant have mostly caught up long ago.

We’ve been imagining that when we came across “REAL FORERUNNERS” they would have nigh indestructible shields that for whatever reason they didn’t equip any of their shielded robots with. Our one encounter with small scale Forerunner tech with extremely strong shields was in Ghosts of Onyx and they were set only to go up when high velocity projectiles were directed their way to save power, making it both vulnerable to rocks being thrown at it and clear that the Forerunners couldn’t maintain shields full time at that level.

My point is that maybe Forerunner technology isn’t as advanced in every way as we’ve assumed.

EDIT: Also to address the whole “this tier civilization should be more advanced in every way then a lesser tier” concept we’ve known for quite some time that was false. The Covenant were Tier 2 but still had inferior AI to the Tier 3 humans for instance.

19

> > > > Greg bear is probably banging his head as we speak trying to explain this. Seeing forerunner weaponry in halo 4 that is from the flood war, leads me to believe that the forerunner are not as advanced as I once thought. I mean come on, they still need to reload? and that light rifle should be 1 shotting master chief. For a civilization eons more advanced than us, Its not that impressive. If the precursor are really tier 0, then I’m guessing they will be something like the aliens from the end of the knowing. There is no way the forerunner should have been able to defeat them.
> > >
> > > I think that’s for gameplay, man…
> > >
> > > Why canonize gameplay? There’d be no fun being one-shotted. :confused:
> > >
> > > Maybe in terms of canon the weapons ARE that powerful. Like how a plasma rifle will burn a Spartans armour, yet in-game you can shrug off about 12 shots before dying without shields in Reach.
> >
> > yea, i know it’s for gameplay, its just that by attempting to balance the forerunner weapons out, 343i is destroying their image and reputation as the most advanced species(besides the precursor, and in my opinion the ancient humans). Why these promethean knights don’t seem that tough when you think about.
> >
> > Honestly, i’ve always hated the concept of dumbing things down for gameplay. It is lazy, and is a crime to the canon, which 343i so often praises. In fact, i still don’t like the fact that we are even fighting forerunner constructs (or should i say fodder sentinel AI’s). If the forerunner are really as advanced as the novels make them out to be, then show it in the games! Or at least make the humans more advanced to compensate for it, it’s hard to believe that the light rifle is about as effective as. . .say a BR, and weaker than a covenant beam rifle.
> >
> > It’s pathetic, these pieces of garbage are tier-1 level? They’re no better than the covenant.
>
> Did the possibility ever occur to you that they weren’t actually trying to kill the Chief at the time? I mean they do in fact one shot that Elite but then fight the Chief hand to hand. Why? Maybe it was because they were attempting to wound him or disable him and not straight up kill him, or else they’d just vaporize him like they did the Elite.

Somebody already bought that idea up, it was a possibility. However, if you think about, even if they wanted mc alive, if you stop firing at them and see what they do to you, they will kill you because it is gameplay. The first knight ignores you likely b/c he was scripted to, and to creep you out. However, the next one jumps you and along with his buddies, tries to kill you. I hope they were holding back, it just that its impossible to tell since this is gameplay, and since the enemies are programmed to kill you. (forgive me for not indenting, I just got this iPad and I don’t know how to use it). I wouldnt be disappointed in these guys if they just didn’t compare them to the old original Prometheans. They are strong, it’s just that compared to the old prometheans, they’re nothing.

20

> We’ve been fighting Forerunner constructs all throughout the Halo series, constructs which would have had real Forerunner shields and weaponry, and they were never that impressive.
>
> It may be that the Forerunner were tier 1 but have you ever considered that was more because of their non-military tech and their ability to manufacture planet sized mechanisms?
>
> The Covenant have been reverse engineering the more accessible Forerunner technology for thousands of years with the aid of Engineers designed by the Forerunner themselves and while they might not know the advanced manufacturing processes that the Forerunner employed among other things the aspects of the technology they have successfully copied would be every bit as effective as the Forerunner equivalent.
>
> Covenant technology would logically only be inferior when they had no example to copy from or couldn’t figure out some aspect of the design and when it comes to force fields or plasma weapons I doubt they could be copied at all unless the main aspects were understood properly.
>
> So basically my understanding is that the Covenant’s technological progress is very uneven due to certain Forerunner technologies being less accessible then others but in several aspects it’s almost as advanced as the Forerunner’s own, primarily in reproducing the capabilities of the simpler or more common artifacts.
>
> Anyhow the Sentinels were a clear sign that we’ve been overestimating the capabilities of small scale Forerunner technology for as long as Halo has existed and that when it comes to smaller scale technology the Covenant have mostly caught up long ago.
>
> We’ve been imagining that when we came across “REAL FORERUNNERS” they would have nigh indestructible shields that for whatever reason they didn’t equip any of their shielded robots with. Our one encounter with small scale Forerunner tech with extremely strong shields was in Ghosts of Onyx and they were set only to go up when high velocity projectiles were directed their way to save power, making it both vulnerable to rocks being thrown at it and clear that the Forerunners couldn’t maintain shields full time at that level.
>
> My point is that maybe Forerunner technology isn’t as advanced in every way as we’ve assumed.
>
> EDIT: Also to address the whole “this tier civilization should be more advanced in every way then a lesser tier” concept we’ve known for quite some time that was false. The Covenant were Tier 2 but still had inferior AI to the Tier 3 humans for instance.

That is just it. The covenant aren’t that much more advanced than humans, partly b/c they have been imitating forerunner tech, in terms of slip space tech, they are just more precise. In terms of plasma infantry weaponry, they are nearly matched by human ballistic weaponry . In terms of AI, they are inferior. The list goes on. There are tons of alien species in other works of sci if that make the covenant look like cavemen. Bungie and 343i have gone to such lengths to hype the forerunner up as a species advanced beyond our comprehension, yet the only advanced tech they have shown is their astroengineering. Which is why I liked what Greg bear did to them, and how describes their technology. I just assumed we would be seeing this in the games, and we might. I did like the propulsion on the cryptum, it was how I expected advanced alien craft to move when not in slip space. I’m going to stop here, I have more to say, but this infernal device is difficult to type on, and I don’t know how to indent. Since we are off topic, you can PM me if you want.

Oh wait, I just learned how to indent. . . Forget it. I can PM you later, I’m watching the euro finals right now. . . It’s getting good.