How can we IMPROVE the Objective Playlist in H4?

For a while I have noticed that the objective playlist isn’t as popular as it used to be in past games (halo 3 and below).

Id like to discuss reasons why it hasn’t been as popular in reach and how we can improve it for H4. Im sure 343i have their own ideas. Im VERY worried that since there was a lack of interest in objective gametypes, that they will not put much focus on it in halo 4.

I also base my conclusion on the fact that not many people like to play one bomb or flag in BTB. Most of the time its slayer or multi-bomb flag(and those often results in stalemates).

Example: I think one idea is to simply reward players more when they WIN in objective. Such as the TEAM (not the player) who scores a flag, gets an addition cR bonus. Thats if they use some sort of cR system.

Im pretty obsessed with objective because it really adds a dynamic and alternate playstyle then just your standard slayer matches.

For what it’s worth, I enjoy objective games but avoid them like the plague because they often end up being played as slayer matches.

Encouraging and/or forcing people to play the gametype for what it is and according to its “rules” would rekindle my interest.

Tossing out a couple of ideas:

  1. Reward the winning team only.

  2. No individual stats recorded. Just a win or loss for the game.

Well im sorry that this isnt topic about sprint, brz, loadouts, and such, but i really thought this would be a nice discussion -_-.

> For what it’s worth, I enjoy objective games but avoid them like the plague because they often end up being played as slayer matches.
>
> Encouraging and/or forcing people to play the gametype for what it is and according to its “rules” would rekindle my interest.
>
> Tossing out a couple of ideas:
>
> 1) Reward the winning team only.
>
> 2) No individual stats recorded. Just a win or loss for the game.

This guy’s solution is pretty accurate.

Thats probably because most people find objective type games to be much more competitive/funner (players opinion) in BTB.

> Thats probably because most people find objective type games to be much more competitive/funner (players opinion) in BTB.

I think personally that msot of the time More people=more chaos. But even in BTB people tend to vote slayer 80% of the time. (made up statistic obviously)

> > For what it’s worth, I enjoy objective games but avoid them like the plague because they often end up being played as slayer matches.
> >
> > Encouraging and/or forcing people to play the gametype for what it is and according to its “rules” would rekindle my interest.
> >
> > Tossing out a couple of ideas:
> >
> > 1) Reward the winning team only.
> >
> > 2) No individual stats recorded. Just a win or loss for the game.
>
> This guy’s solution is pretty accurate.

I agree with 1. 2 just wouldnt work :confused: you kinda HAVE to have stats.

> I agree with 1. 2 just wouldnt work :confused: you kinda HAVE to have stats.

I respect the fact that stats are important to a lot of people but why should I play an objective match if no one is interested in planting the bomb, capturing the flag or whatever? I have the same issue with Grifball.

I’m not suggesting that it’s a perfect solution but I think doggedly pursuing credits and individual stats creates the problem. What do you think? Is there some other way to address this?

Another suggestion to stimulate greater interest in objective games is to incorporate them into the daily/weekly challenges.

bring back juggling.

I just think enough emphasis wasn’t put on objective in development. They need to make CTF awesome again.

The main reason is the bad game mechanics killed the fun, and having a strategy-oriented gametype on top of this stategy-less game was a ridiculous farce. With its scandalous kill times and movement speed, and absolute inability to get multikills against people who are not completely new (might be fixed somewhat with the TU, I wouldn’t really know), it isn’t even fun going for an objective. In other Halos there’s the possibility of multikills from good positioning and aiming when the enemy is doing its thing.

The second reason is the maps do not promote teamwork or teammates taking roles and positions and routes (eg Zanzibar, Headlong). There are no bases on the maps (I don’t know about the new ones), just tiny little huts with no cover and no weapons. Just look at the size of the bases on Paradiso and Spire. There’s no picking up weapons and defending a corner or taking a turret (the one we have is completely useless and misplaced, unlike the turrets in other games) or sniper spot. Maps like Zealot don’t even have identifiable bases. There’s just spots on the floor where you arm the bomb.

The third reason is bad weapon choices, lines of sight, and flanking geometry do not promote individual or team movement along an infiltration route. For example, Turf had a great setup where you got your grenades and someone else got a PP and then they’d crouch on top of a box or building and you’d be around the corner watching 90 degrees another direction. Battle Creek has the Overshield for the flag guy midway through, a place where one guy would defend inside and another on top. Zanzibar had a place to put the Warthog as a special strategy. Reach offers nothing.

In particular, the lack of weapons or vertical gameplay (which I am glad 343i are fixing) means there’s no advantages to be had. Balance does not mean removing advantages, it means that they work well for an even chance to get them and recover once they are lost. Notable examples are the Sword, which was a tool used in Skirmish to get the flag and clear out bases, and now is so slow and useless to pull out that you would never use it except to camp in the corner. Before it made you a target and a protector of the guy going for the objective and you had a team responsibility with it. Also, minor weapons like PR and PP meant teammates had something to give them an edge when going for a base. Now they slow and useless and are never used and do not have a role in team play (one person taking out shields, for example) because they do not kill and it’s better to hide and run away or use AR/DMR. In Reach (and Halo 3, to a lesser extent) the non-power weapons are gimmicks. No one teammate would ever be able to help with a beam rifle or plasma launcher.

Fourth reason, for BTB (with its abysmal flat maps requiring long treks with sparse cover to even see enemies), is weapons are killing machines and nothing more. Banshees are not used to secure an objective except for racking up kills. Ghosts don’t even have a place in the game.

Fifth, there is no room for second-half play for CTF. If you get your hands on the flag on the excuse for a map Countdown pretends to be, it’s gone. If you have it in Hemmorhage, round’s over. Contrast with the frenzy of teleporters and desperate Snipers and teammates taking Warthogs and Banshees along separate paths to recover the flag on Containment.

Another reason is there is no room for weapon roles or movement because of no ammo or ammo pickups. For example, it was part of the game on Blood Gulch to have a Sniper. Now the thing spawns every 10 minutes with 2 shots so it’s not even part of the game. There’s no ability to go for no rockets on Reflection.

Another reason is the spawning system, which is the most terrible I’ve ever seen. I must note how much it kills the fun of having a Sniper Rifle on Hemmorhage. No longer can you lead an offense. Again, with the wrong idea of balance in mind, since it was already good and well that you were a big target for having the gun.

Nothing in Reach encourages offense or going forward. It promotes being a turtle and getting one-by-one kills. In fact, it’s necessary. There needs to be forward movement.

Quick solutions: fix everything wrong with movement and kill times, litter routes with weapons and pickups, make vehicles less destructive, have actual bases. And vertical play: there was nothing more fun than taking out enemies rushing a position from a slightly elevated position with good lines of sight to a range of incoming routes, which is somehow absent in all of Reach’s maps. Then the game might be enjoyable as previous Halos for objective games. The gist is they were particularly fun for demonstrating clever team coordination across and around an interesting terrain with strategic movement choices, and they allowed for multikills from streams or groups of enemies moving to your position in a predictable way. These two things need to be the focus if the franchise is going to be revitalized, and I think they should look to games like Team Fortress for ideas.

Objective kills and death should not count on your record. This would encourage many more players to play the Objective playlist as an objective and not a way to focus on kills or worry about their deaths.

Also, diving a vehicle with a flag, bomb, etc.

[deleted]

Have a “PTFO” message flash really brightly and boldly on the players screens when they enter the game.

Make it ranked, will solve the issue

[deleted]

yes

> For a while I have noticed that the objective playlist isn’t as popular as it used to be in past games (halo 3 and below).
>
> Id like to discuss reasons why it hasn’t been as popular in reach and how we can improve it for H4. Im sure 343i have their own ideas. Im VERY worried that since there was a lack of interest in objective gametypes, that they will not put much focus on it in halo 4.
>
> I also base my conclusion on the fact that not many people like to play one bomb or flag in BTB. Most of the time its slayer or multi-bomb flag(and those often results in stalemates).
>
> Example: I think one idea is to simply reward players more when they WIN in objective. Such as the TEAM (not the player) who scores a flag, gets an addition cR bonus. Thats if they use some sort of cR system.
>
> Im pretty obsessed with objective because it really adds a dynamic and alternate playstyle then just your standard slayer matches.

The reason objective is not as popular in reach as in past halo games is because nobody cares about winning. All people care about is getting kills this is the result of taking out 1-50. If 1-50 is in halo 4 people will start playing objective again it is as simple as that.

I really enjoyed Team Objective in Halo 3 in which i had a 46 in, the only downside to that playlist was a lack of BR start’s. I absolutely adored Team Throwback since it was BR start’s and better balanced (no longer could you for example camp above the spawn point for 1 Flag on Last Resort) i managed a, although rather difficult, 49 in that playlist but the population was very low largely due to everyone and their mother being able to boot the other team in almost every game which i noticed was very common after rank 47 and extremely annoying, eventually playlist was removed so i was a little sad :(I did enjoy Social Skirmish if i was with friends too.

In Reach, objective wasn’t as fun, plus the addition of cR made it rather pointless to play the game as it should be played and instead be rewarded more (and technically ‘win’ without actually winning due to more cR) for playing it like slayer.

I would like to see objective in Halo 4 of course but obviously they need to make it far more rewarding to win the game than simply just farming kills.

> Objective gametypes were rather neglected, alongside with a Big Team Battle Playlist that could have effectively worked in Halo: Reach and added to the lore at the same time.
>
>
> The problem in Reach, was the map diversity and ability to be suitable for all sort of gametypes. This was uaually due to the fact of how the map was designed to play, take the Spire and Boneyard, for example. These two maps are a prime example of how it was only suitable for one specific gametype, that being Invasion. Which is did a horrible job at, just to clarify.
>
> To solve this, there needs to be maps (other than Forge World) that cater to objective maps and not only to slayer-based gametypes. The maps also need to be medium-sized or even larger than the ones provided on the release dates, not to mention better than the ones on the DLC map packs. Reach after all, had enough custom options for the maps, but the maps themselves were not designed nor balanced specifically for all the objective-based gametypes. Such as Capture the flag, Assault, etc.
>
> So if anything, Halo 4 would have to ship on release with an abundance of maps that are designed well and fresh in terms of being abundant with possibilities and fun.

I agree with alot of what you have said there, I think it would have been nice to have have the game ship with more suitable maps for BTB, as for normal objective, I can see how others in the thread see the connection between the 1-50 rank promoting better gameplay. (less stat padding-more going for the objective)

Give “doing the objective” the same reward as a kill, or more.

I know people will say this is copying etc…but Battlefield rewards players for getting the objective as much or more than a kill. This will encourage people to go for the objective and not just play for kills.