How can we fix the flawed HALO CE- REACH spawn system? Post your suggestions to the current system.

I think there is one thing every halo player and gamer can agree on. Getting spawn killed is extremely frustrating and it happens way to often on ALL HALO GAMES. I wanted to start this thread so that other people can come up with methods to make a better spawn system. Post how you would make a better spawn system. These are just some ideas off the top of my head.

I believe spawn system is a value based system. The map is divided into spawn zones. If you get killed in an area that area gets a +1. The likelihood of you spawning their again is decreased. Reach may have adjusted to this a little but I’m not sure.

I was trying to think of a good spawn system and I am having trouble. These are a few ideas I came up with.

  1. A person dies

  2. The game takes down the coordinates of every opposing player on the map.

  3. Coordinates are averaged

  4. The person is spawned at the furthest possible distance from the average coordinates. It shouldn’t be an exact location. It should be more of a zone. The area you spawn at has to be an area of cover though. Each map could have its designated spawn points still.

  5. In the campaign you aren’t allowed to spawn next to your teammate if he is in a firefight because you are in danger. I believe nobody should spawn in danger or assisting a teammate in a kill. So, if the campaign can notice this, the multiplayer should be able to take this into consideration.

  6. Home bases should be able to switch and they shouldn’t be color coordinated.

  7. Information could be derived from heat maps during betas. If you know an area is a heavy combat zone, don’t spawn people there.

  8. There is a time system to where a spawn won’t repeat itself for at least 3 minutes.

  9. Make it where the game knows where each characters field of view is based on their dot on the grid. Don’t make a spawn in the enemies direct field of view unless it is behind cover.

  10. Increase the time it takes to spawn. Sometimes I get double kills in doubles and I get attacked before my shields heal.

“I have nightmares of hearing the beeping sound that happens before you spawn on halo. When I actually die in reality, if I hear that sound I will know I have been sent to hell.”

I liked the FOV one.

I have no problem with spawn killing. If the team worked hard for map control to get the spawn trap then they earn it and smart playing will get you out. Welcome to Halo where spray and pray does not work. Smart playing does.

Reach spawns are fine. Spawn killing only happens when you lose map control.

I feel like that would actually be plausible to accomplish too. The spawn system isn’t complex enough. If you have any of your own ideas feel free to give them. I’m not saying my idea is all knowing. I am asking for help and opinions.

> Reach spawns are fine. Spawn killing only happens when you lose map control.

Map control shouldn’t mean the other team should get spawn killed. Yes, it should be difficult for them to regain that tactical position. But, they should be able to live long enough to at least be able to formulate some sort of strategy of regaining map control. Truly, the team members should only die if they charge ignorantly on spawn. Map control shouldn’t cause spawn kills. You can’t regain map control if you are dying before you can get your feet set. I have been spawn killed by campers on reach as well. I play doubles most often. I would say my team dies because of spawns 10 times a game. If you are in a one on one battle and the guy you are fighting has a teammate spawn next to him. That guy who spawns contributes in your death. That is also a spawn kill. Or if your shields haven’t recovered and the guy you just killed kills you…that is a spawn kill. Any death that is related to a spawn would be considered as such.

> > Reach spawns are fine. Spawn killing only happens when you lose map control.
>
> Map control shouldn’t mean the other team should get spawn killed. They should be able to live long enough to at least be able to formulate some sort of strategy of regaining map control. Truly, the team members should only die if they charge ignorantly on spawn. Map control shouldn’t cause spawn kills. You can’t regain map control if you are dying before you can get your feet set. I have been spawn killed by campers on reach as well. I play doubles most often. I would say my team dies because of spawns 10-15 times a game. If you are in a one on one battle and the guy you are fighting has a teammate spawn next to him. That guy who spawns contributes in your death. That is also a spawn kill.

Watch pro footage. It will teach you a lot about getting out of spawn traps and avoid getting spawn killed. Methods I use is as soon as you spawn crouch or jump then haul -Yoink- out of there then wait for your team to spawn before pushing in on the other team. I do it every time I spawn just in case the other team knows where you’re spawning or not.

MLG players shouldn’t have to make not getting spawned killed a big part of their strategy. Of course, there are ways of learning how to avoid being killed in a flawed spawn system. But, why can’t that spawn system be fixed. I’m tired of people saying everything on reach is perfect. Video game companies are not perfect. Bungie did not make Reach 100% perfect for MLG. MLG is all about abusing flaws in the game. They do whatever it takes to win. If anything, MLG shows me how big of a problem it is. MLG players find solutions to the problems of games. Just because there are solutions does not mean problems aren’t there.

The spawn system is not perfect. So, it would be in everone’s best interest to try to help and fix it. I think that playes shouldn’t be able to sprint the second they spawn. Also, jetpacks have to be suitable to the maps in which they are on. It isn’t fair that once you lose map control that you can just fly to the top of the map and shoot like nothing ever happened.

Then that is simply refusing to play smart. Halo is a game of winning and always will be. People like myself play simply to win. It’s not a flaw when a team knows how to block spawns to get you where they want you to be. That is just smart playing and knowledge of the map. It would be more broken if you spawn beside the team working hard for map control just to hit them in the back. That would be the flaw. The spawns are fine. Learn how to take advantage of them. Thats like people getting mad at me because I use bumper jumper and they say " ALL YOU CAN DO IS JUMP." But they might as well say simply, “Stay still so I can get an easy kill. It’s too hard and I’m too lazy to learn how to play smart”

> MLG players shouldn’t have to make not getting spawned killed a big part of their strategy. Of course, there are ways of learning how to avoid being killed in a flawed spawn system. But, why can’t that spawn system be fixed. I’m tired of people saying everything on reach is perfect. Video game companies are not perfect. Bungie did not make Reach 100% perfect for MLG. MLG is all about abusing flaws in the game. They do whatever it takes to win. If anything, MLG shows me how big of a problem it is. MLG players find solutions to the problems of games. Just because there are solutions does not mean problems aren’t there.

If you look back at Halo 1 games at MLG/AGP tournaments, not getting killed on spawn, or getting spawned in a bad location, was a MAJOR part of their strategy. This is especially true on maps like Hang 'em and Dammy. I haven’t played Reach in a few months so I don’t know if you can have a powerful influence on respawns like you can in H1, but historically it’s part of the game.

What I don’t like about the spawns in Reach (and 3) is the initial spawn. I hate that they are always in the exact same spot. The “Red team spawns in this base and Blue team in this base” spawn ruins the beginning of the game for me. I don’t mind it that much in objective gametypes like CTF, but it makes slayer more predictable. It would be like a baseball game where the pitcher always throws a low and away fastball as the first pitch. A better test of skill is the ability to adapt, not the time to plan.

Knowing where someone is going to spawn isn’t difficult. I can predict every spawn on asylum. That does not make me a good player. The spawn zone/ value system allows you to predict spawns. Spawns should be hard to predict and provide the person spawning with no advantages or disadvantages. To me abusing the spawn system is exploting FLAWS in the game. Map control and spawn killing are two completely different things. Also, you can’t adapt when bullets are hitting you in the face on spawn. The point of the thread is to help the spawn system. Maybe you like the system but there is no way you can tell me it is perfect. Players should not be able to easily analyze and figure out the spawn system. A person that devotes their life to mlg should be the only ones doing this. It is the most basic spawn system in the world.

A more valid comparison would be stealing signals in baseball. If you know what the other team is going to pitch before they do than you have a serious advantage. In halo reach it isn’t cheating but you can’t say spawn killing is skillful.

> I have no problem with spawn killing. If the team worked hard for map control to get the spawn trap then they earn it and smart playing will get you out. Welcome to Halo where spray and pray does not work. Smart playing does.

Map control? Really?

No such thing as map control when people are allowed to use the jetpack… Consider the Ivory Tower remake(reflection?). Every time I play on that map now it seems like some fool with the jetpack picks up the rocket launcher and then flys up and kills whoever is trying to pick up the sniper at the beginning of the game, giving his team not only map control, but also weapon control as they now have the rockets, shotgun, and sniper… What’s the point of even having walls on maps if someone with the jetpack can just fly right over them?

I didn’t think the spawns were at all flawed in Reach (of course I’ve been playing CoD too where you can be spawn trapped to the point were you are killed instantly upon spawning). My only suggestion to the spawn system comes with automatic spawning. I’d like to be given the option to delay my spawn to make sure I have the armor ability I want. But then, we don’t really want armor abilities in CE (or Halo 4), do we?

Jetpack does eliminate map control that is a fact. But, jetpack isn’t responsible for all of the hopeless spawns. Could you guys please pitch in ideas for spawn fixes rather than just trashing reach or my post?

> Jetpack does eliminate map control that is a fact. But, jetpack isn’t responsible for all of the hopeless spawns. Could you guys please pitch in ideas for spawn fixes rather than just trashing reach or my post?

My biggest problem with the current system isn’t spawn trapping, because I’ve never really fallen victim to that.

The worst part of the reach spawn system for me is how close you can spawn to other people if you are on different height levels than them. Like on reflection no one should ever spawn on the ground behind the main elevator lift if there are people at the top of the lift. I’d say that at least once a game on that map I’ll look down from the top of the lift and see multiple enemy players spawning and quickly kill them. In my mind that’s not really spawn trapping on my part, just poor spawning on the game. The same thing happens on the Ascension remake. If I’m at the top of the big tower no one on the other team should spawn there.

> Reach spawns are fine. Spawn killing only happens when you lose map control.

this isnt true at all.

the spawns in halo have always been a bit flawed. some of the problem lies within the ‘weighting’ for deaths and teammates, etc., i believe. theres obviously other problems too, like how if you are 2 feet above a spawn you dont seem to influence it (as seen when you are standing in the little tower in pinnacle, just to have 2 people spawn directly behind you, or when you are in the little tower in the cage / uncaged just to have people spawn below you.

ive also seen people sniping from the sniper spawn on uncaged, just to have people spawn DIRECTLY behind them (not 2 feet).

the spawn system should look at where each player is, then draw an invisible bubble with them at the center. this bubble will effect spawns. the bubble should be able to be changed, so you dont screw up spawning systems simply because you are a floor below, and your bubble is blocking the spawns in the floor above.

the game should also not spawn people on top of grenades. it should know the trajectory, and where they will explode, and either move the spawn a little bit so they are out of the blast radius, or completely move the persons spawn wayyy away from the grenade explosion (but probably the former). ive thrown grenades at people all the time, just to have their ally pop up with a mini nuke landing at their feet for an easy double kill.

the spawns should be a bit influenced by field of vision. what this means is, if a team is set up, and spread out, the enemy team will not spawn in places that are being looked at. you shouldnt be able to see people spawn. obviously this should only influence spawns a little bit, as it very well might be possible on certain maps to block spawns / abuse this by looking. that would be problematic to say the least.

the game should try to spawn teammates together, but not spawn people by teammates who are shooting (enemies, not just shooting to prevent abuse), or being shot at, so they cant instantly turn the tides of the battle because they spawned in the perfect spot to help out.

the game should have a bit of a negative influence on the place where they died, but not completely prevent the person from spawning there like it currently seems to. the game should say ‘he died here before, so it might not be the best place to spawn him, but it very well might end up being the best place’.

overall, however, i think spawning systems are one of the hardest concepts / mechanics to implement properly, or optimally. there really arent too many games that have this down perfect, near as i can tell.

When it comes down to it, in competitive Halo the whole game revolves around Map control and Spawn trapping which go hand in hand with each other. You can’t gain map control if you’re in a spawn trap (you have to break the spawn trap before you can push put) and you can’t spawn trap unless you have map control.

As for fixing Reach’s spawns the only thing that needs to changed IMO is for teammates and enemys to have a higher weighing on where you’re going to spawn. For example, the game should try and spawn you close to neutral teammates (not in a firefight) and away from the opposite team.

> overall, however, i think spawning systems are one of the hardest concepts / mechanics to implement properly, or optimally. there really arent too many games that have this down perfect, near as i can tell.

I haven’t really seen any. It’s either not so good spawns or there is just a general spawn area for your team on the map or you can choose your spawn location.

I personally believe the effectiveness of spawn system really depends on the map, especially when having a spawn trap. Sanctuary for example, you have your team set up on their snipe, rings and rocks, only place they can spawn is at base. This gives them no chance at getting away. as you all have clear view to the base.

Maps with more sightline blockers and interior spaces are generally harder as you can’t necessarily even see where the enemy spawns. Mostly on medium sized maps the spawning is limited by the map size especially when the map doesn’t have multiple floors.

The spawn system has it’s faults, but they’re not the only reason when it comes to getting spawn killed, this usually has something to do with your team’s ability to play and the map itself. You can’t arrange very good spawns on the map when you only have a limited area.

Whole another area of spawning is what Urza described, spawning behind back and on grenades that are about to explode. These problems can be fixed by tweaking the spawning algorithm. Part of the spawn killing problem can also be fixed, but it will always be present, especially if your team gets outplayed.

I agree, when I play Swat on Asylum I get killed when i just spawned all the time!