These are the things that should change in order to get closer to a balanced game. I can’t give specific numbers on a lot of these because I don’t have any numbers to go off of. Currently there is an issue with UNSC T2 being useless and banished T2 is far better in every way. There is actually NOTHING that helps unsc deal with infantry on tech 2 and as such these changes are mainly focused at balancing the unsc vs banished matchup in the mid game.
The Units:
Hunters and Cyclops need to take more damage from non-vehicle sources including basic infantry and more importantly basic air. It may also be necessary to adjust their interaction with T2 vehicles as they may be too effective. - Hogs need about a 10% buff to speed and they need about a 10% buff to damage. Gauss hogs need a huge buff to damage against infantry I would even dare to say that the damage could be doubled and it would still be fine. If you have ever seen gauss hogs vs basic infantry it is actually comical; they take twice as long to kill the infantry as the gunner hogs. It’s more of a downgrade than an upgrade. - Hornets need a cost reduction and a damage buff in the same go. Cost should probably be like 300. Wingman should increase damage more. - Shroud cost should be moved to 400 to go along with the nerf to their effectiveness. They are still reasonable units, just not at the current price point. - Hellbringer needs a massive buff to damage vs infantry, dare I say 40%. Dispersion nozzle does not consistently set the ground on fire which accounts for all of the extra damage in that upgrade. It would be better to include an innate increase to damage with that upgrade and include a napalm adherent like effect. Keep in mind that these units would still get demolished by suicide grunts in the banished match up and so their use would be mostly limited to the unsc matchup where rabbits should mop them up and so they will most likely remain a dead unit. - The initial thought was that Jackrabbits should beat marines and lose to banished scouts, but if the hellbringer gets changed in addition to the suggested change to raid below then it won’t be as necessary for them to beat marines. However, the rabbit will still need to be good enough to keep the hellbringer in check while not devolving the game into pure rabbit spam where T2 doesn’t matter and the leader with the better passives wins. I personally feel the rabbits may do too much damage to buildings. It would have just been a better route for them to do low damage but still maintain their splash which would let them deal effectively with infantry while not killing all the mini bases. If they don’t kill buildings and they don’t kill infantry then they would be a useless unit. - Sniper needs to get a damage increase on T2 with the cloak upgrade. Currently they tend to miss a lot of their shots as well. Snipers should probably also receive a health increase as they melt way too quickly and they are pretty easy to get on top of. It just takes too many shots to kill basic infantry with a sniper which makes them ineffective counters to it and in the banished matchup, the sniper is inferior to the ranger to the extent that someone can build both hunters and rangers against someone making pure sniper and the banished player will win. This scenario is compounded by the presence of engineers. Hunters seem to take a few too many shots from snipers, but that may be another issue entirely. - Kodiaks are useless. They could use a massive buff to building damage as well as some more base damage. They could also benefit from faster lock down and unlock times. They should beat infantry pretty handily, but they don’t. - Tanks are expensive for what they do in low pop. I would prefer to see tanks made better in low pop and have their effectiveness decreased in mass. There is a general trend in this game in that all mainline units are not cost effective compared to counter units based on cost of supplies and as such the cost of big expensive tech 3 units (vultures, blisterbacks, wraiths, and tanks) may need supply reductions in the future for them to be effective. As it stands tech 3 is almost exclusively for upgrades. - Marauders are still terrible and would need a massive damage increase vs ground targets as well as a decent splash damage radius so that they could at least effectively deal with infantry.The Passives:
Cutter’s raid should only affect marines and the speed of all barracks units should be buffed to help compensate. This could hopefully help the other unsc leaders be more in line with one another as they would have a chance to compete with cutter in the early and mid game. Snipers and hellbringers need to be faster than the units they counter. This is more of a change that looks to impact mid game. - Time for heroes is another one of those issues similar to raid that means if you both build the same stuff you will win because your units are better. It’s hard to say how to adjust this while still keeping Jerome relevant.The idea is to bring all of the UNSC leaders up while making a few leader specific nerfs to prevent them from being OP.
On a different note, shields should not come up while a base is under attack, it’s still a big issue.
I don’t often find myself agreeing with these types of posts, but I can say without a doubt that I am 100% behind each and every one of these changes. I especially agree with your analysis on the counter units being better than core units most of the time. Very well said, I hope this is implemented.
I’d like to add, shields need to function like they did in HW1, and not protect turret slots and units under them. Even after the nerf they’re still way too good simply because they provide like 10-15 seconds invulnerability to banished armies whenever you engage their base. They will continue to be broken and provide a huge advantage to the Banished as long as they are in the game until this type change is implemented.
I can get behind a lot of these suggestions but one that’s been tossed around in more places than just here us a nerf to UNSC raid. I’d still prefer they buff other unsc leaders than drop down one of the relevant ones.
I think Forge, for example, could maybe do with his original leader wheel again. Acc. Assembly on second point. Jr are relevant again but not overbearing. Marines are able to combat them so Cutter stays useful and can nade out rabbits in engagements. That leaves anders and Isabel with some tuning left to do, mostly anders.
That’s just one idea. I think Banished are in a good spot right now for many reasons but fine tuning UNSC with precise changes would benefit the entire meta, I think.
But like I said, I agree with the rest. We do need numbers though so I especially agree with that.
I agree with a lot of these. I especially agree that cyclopses and hunters are too tanky for being counter vehicle. I also thing the marauder could use a damage and health buff. I main banished so I don’t know much about the UNSC units but I always get pissed at how long it takes to kill anti vehicle units with core infantry and air
i agree with everything and especially with your final comment. im sick of banished shields they need to not come up while underattack. if you dont have a shield up and are about to be attacked, thats your fault and if your attacked building one during the attack should not work. shields are so op
siege turret needs to cost like 500 supply each not 900…
> 2533274904506600;6:
> i agree with everything and especially with your final comment. im sick of banished shields they need to not come up while underattack. if you dont have a shield up and are about to be attacked, thats your fault and if your attacked building one during the attack should not work. shields are so op
>
> siege turret needs to cost like 500 supply each not 900…
I disagree, I use them and they are brutal against the ground armies that tend to be massed at tier 2 when this turret becomes available, the range is insane, maybe like 700 supply.
I don’t think you touch Cutter raid. It’s what makes cutter unique. It should apply to all his Infantry.
Snipers need to not miss. And they should 1 shot marines grunts suicide grunts 2 shot hunters and rangers.
Forge, Isabel, Johnson are vehicle leaders in my opinion. So they are meant to operate in the tech 2 and 3 mid-game. If Forge got assembly faster " a sooner leader point that would help him.
Hornets kill rangers and hunters but need to be cheaper. In many games I find myself going hogs and hornets with leaders like Forge and Isabel. Johnson I’m going Mantis and Hornets
Johnson Mantis need to cost 300
Hornets reduce to 325
i never felt shrouds needed a nerf.
i would like to see that nerf reversed and the cost stay the same.
Kodiaks maybe reduce the cost to 400
Please fix shields going up when a base is attacked Please.
im ok with the units being under the shield.
Jerome Time for heroes applies to all units and only below certain population count so I’m good with that power staying as is.
Kinsano hogs are her unique unit and I feel there damage is weak.
Anders R&D should apply to all energy cost including tech 2 and 3. Have R&D reduce the cost and time it takes for her to get tech 2 and 3. The cost reduction to kodiaks could help Anders as well as if siege turret cost was reduced to 700-750
> 2533274812650916;4:
> I can get behind a lot of these suggestions but one that’s been tossed around in more places than just here us a nerf to UNSC raid. I’d still prefer they buff other unsc leaders than drop down one of the relevant ones.
>
> I think Forge, for example, could maybe do with his original leader wheel again. Acc. Assembly on second point. Jr are relevant again but not overbearing. Marines are able to combat them so Cutter stays useful and can nade out rabbits in engagements. That leaves anders and Isabel with some tuning left to do, mostly anders.
>
> That’s just one idea. I think Banished are in a good spot right now for many reasons but fine tuning UNSC with precise changes would benefit the entire meta, I think.
>
> But like I said, I agree with the rest. We do need numbers though so I especially agree with that.
Cutters infantry would run the same speed but his marines would be faster. The UNSC barracks units would just move faster with all UNSC. This makes them more relevant so it’s not just Cutter and Jerome. Be careful 343 with redline and time for heros if this is implemented.
> 2533274811417927;1:
> These are the things that should change in order to get closer to a balanced game. I can’t give specific numbers on a lot of these because I don’t have any numbers to go off of. Currently there is an issue with UNSC T2 being useless and banished T2 is far better in every way. There is actually NOTHING that helps unsc deal with infantry on tech 2 and as such these changes are mainly focused at balancing the unsc vs banished matchup in the mid game.
>
> The Units:
> - Hunters and Cyclops need to take more damage from non-vehicle sources including basic infantry and more importantly basic air. It may also be necessary to adjust their interaction with T2 vehicles as they may be too effective. - Hogs need about a 10% buff to speed and they need about a 10% buff to damage. Gauss hogs need a huge buff to damage against infantry I would even dare to say that the damage could be doubled and it would still be fine. If you have ever seen gauss hogs vs basic infantry it is actually comical; they take twice as long to kill the infantry as the gunner hogs. It’s more of a downgrade than an upgrade. - Hornets need a cost reduction and a damage buff in the same go. Cost should probably be like 300. Wingman should increase damage more. - Shroud cost should be moved to 400 to go along with the nerf to their effectiveness. They are still reasonable units, just not at the current price point. - Hellbringer needs a massive buff to damage vs infantry, dare I say 40%. Dispersion nozzle does not consistently set the ground on fire which accounts for all of the extra damage in that upgrade. It would be better to include an innate increase to damage with that upgrade and include a napalm adherent like effect. Keep in mind that these units would still get demolished by suicide grunts in the banished match up and so their use would be mostly limited to the unsc matchup where rabbits should mop them up and so they will most likely remain a dead unit. - The initial thought was that Jackrabbits should beat marines and lose to banished scouts, but if the hellbringer gets changed in addition to the suggested change to raid below then it won’t be as necessary for them to beat marines. However, the rabbit will still need to be good enough to keep the hellbringer in check while not devolving the game into pure rabbit spam where T2 doesn’t matter and the leader with the better passives wins. I personally feel the rabbits may do too much damage to buildings. It would have just been a better route for them to do low damage but still maintain their splash which would let them deal effectively with infantry while not killing all the mini bases. If they don’t kill buildings and they don’t kill infantry then they would be a useless unit. - Sniper needs to get a damage increase on T2 with the cloak upgrade. Currently they tend to miss a lot of their shots as well. Snipers should probably also receive a health increase as they melt way too quickly and they are pretty easy to get on top of. It just takes too many shots to kill basic infantry with a sniper which makes them ineffective counters to it and in the banished matchup, the sniper is inferior to the ranger to the extent that someone can build both hunters and rangers against someone making pure sniper and the banished player will win. This scenario is compounded by the presence of engineers. Hunters seem to take a few too many shots from snipers, but that may be another issue entirely. - Kodiaks are useless. They could use a massive buff to building damage as well as some more base damage. They could also benefit from faster lock down and unlock times. They should beat infantry pretty handily, but they don’t. - Tanks are expensive for what they do in low pop. I would prefer to see tanks made better in low pop and have their effectiveness decreased in mass. There is a general trend in this game in that all mainline units are not cost effective compared to counter units based on cost of supplies and as such the cost of big expensive tech 3 units (vultures, blisterbacks, wraiths, and tanks) may need supply reductions in the future for them to be effective. As it stands tech 3 is almost exclusively for upgrades. - Marauders are still terrible and would need a massive damage increase vs ground targets as well as a decent splash damage radius so that they could at least effectively deal with infantry.The Passives:
>
>
> - Cutter’s raid should only affect marines and the speed of all barracks units should be buffed to help compensate. This could hopefully help the other unsc leaders be more in line with one another as they would have a chance to compete with cutter in the early and mid game. Snipers and hellbringers need to be faster than the units they counter. This is more of a change that looks to impact mid game. - Time for heroes is another one of those issues similar to raid that means if you both build the same stuff you will win because your units are better. It’s hard to say how to adjust this while still keeping Jerome relevant.The idea is to bring all of the UNSC leaders up while making a few leader specific nerfs to prevent them from being OP.
>
> On a different note, shields should not come up while a base is under attack, it’s still a big issue.
Yup. Agree with all of this.
I don’t play Unsc often, but, from the banished side, I’ve always felt like snipers were effective. Ill trust others on this one though.
I agree with all of this except I wouldn’t touch Cutter’s Raid. Without it he will be useless.
The ability for Banished to double pump Rangers (which absolutely decimate infantry) is significant. They could use a health nerf and maybe a slight damage nerf. In mass they are just too damn effective
> 2641843709998544;13:
> I agree with all of this except I wouldn’t touch Cutter’s Raid. Without it he will be useless.
>
> The ability for Banished to double pump Rangers (which absolutely decimate infantry) is significant. They could use a health nerf and maybe a slight damage nerf. In mass they are just too damn effective
As a Cutter main, I would hope they don’t touch his unit speed, but I think the OP point is that any UNSC other than Cutter is at a huge disadvantage already against Banished or UNSC since the Cyclops and Snipers and Hellbringers are so slow that they are almost useless. It would bring Cutter back to the pack but might inadvertently cripple Cutter. Like you said, Raid (and CAS to an extent) are the things that separate Cutter from others. I am not sure what to do, but Anders, Isabel, and Forge are at a distinct disadvantage if trying to counter vehicles or infantry until they get into late game. I would hope that if the suggestion above is taken, the ODST speed would also be left untouched with Cutter Raid (so it would impact Marines and ODST).
Another issue with touching Raid as described above is that if it only affected marines, you basically slow them down if you move them with your snipers, cyclops and hellbringers (which is a common play for T1 and T2 Cutter) in order to keep your attacking army in tact.
> 2533274811417927;1:
> - It may also be necessary to adjust their interaction with T2 vehicles as they may be too effective.
Been saying this since forever! 2 hunters can kill like 10 marauders, that is really dumb. Anti vehicle is so freaking effective that T2 vehicles are useless, and as I said before, a nerf to Hunter/Cyclops against T2 would be a Buff to Hornets. Since people would start using more vehicles.
Just to be clear, I believe Hunters and Cyclops are currently balanced against Scouts, Locusts, Kodiaks and Tanks.
Speaking about the Kodiak, I’m so very surprised you didn’t mention anything about their move speed. It is so painful how slow they are.
> 2533274796391115;12:
> Yup. Agree with all of this.
> I don’t play Unsc often, but, from the banished side, I’ve always felt like snipers were effective. Ill trust others on this one though.
I’ve felt the same as well. I’ve seen them miss shots, and that’s a problem but their damage should not be touched. If you increase the accuracy you increase the dps.
Also, it seems most people agree Shields should not come up in battle or when built. Do you guys think that a cost reduction would then be necessary? Shields are very expensive, unlike in HW1 where I believe they cost around 200 supplies.
> 2533274821521504;17:
> > 2533274796391115;12:
> > Yup. Agree with all of this.
> > I don’t play Unsc often, but, from the banished side, I’ve always felt like snipers were effective. Ill trust others on this one though.
>
> I’ve felt the same as well. I’ve seen them miss shots, and that’s a problem but their damage should not be touched. If you increase the accuracy you increase the dps.
>
> Also, it seems most people agree Shields should not come up in battle or when built. Do you guys think that a cost reduction would then be necessary? Shields are very expensive, unlike in HW1 where I believe they cost around 200 supplies.
If shields don’t come up in combat I still think they should be expensive.
However if a price reduction was implemented then I’d like to see the cost of each generator on a base increase. Like the first is 200, second 400, etc. This would prevent cheap stacking.
> 2533274821521504;17:
> > 2533274796391115;12:
> > Yup. Agree with all of this.
> > I don’t play Unsc often, but, from the banished side, I’ve always felt like snipers were effective. Ill trust others on this one though.
>
> I’ve felt the same as well. I’ve seen them miss shots, and that’s a problem but their damage should not be touched. If you increase the accuracy you increase the dps.
>
> Also, it seems most people agree Shields should not come up in battle or when built. Do you guys think that a cost reduction would then be necessary? Shields are very expensive, unlike in HW1 where I believe they cost around 200 supplies.
Agreed. Accuracy over increased damage.
Don’t snipers also have longer range? It seems like I’m always seeing those red or blue lines coming out of the fog.
For shields, 200 is a little cheap. Unless they were much weaker and each additional generator made it stronger… Because then it would be necessary to fully invest in shield stacking, rather than turrets.
> 2663289422510355;14:
> > 2641843709998544;13:
> > I agree with all of this except I wouldn’t touch Cutter’s Raid. Without it he will be useless.
> >
> > The ability for Banished to double pump Rangers (which absolutely decimate infantry) is significant. They could use a health nerf and maybe a slight damage nerf. In mass they are just too damn effective
>
> As a Cutter main, I would hope they don’t touch his unit speed, but I think the OP point is that any UNSC other than Cutter is at a huge disadvantage already against Banished or UNSC since the Cyclops and Snipers and Hellbringers are so slow that they are almost useless. It would bring Cutter back to the pack but might inadvertently cripple Cutter. Like you said, Raid (and CAS to an extent) are the things that separate Cutter from others. I am not sure what to do, but Anders, Isabel, and Forge are at a distinct disadvantage if trying to counter vehicles or infantry until they get into late game. I would hope that if the suggestion above is taken, the ODST speed would also be left untouched with Cutter Raid (so it would impact Marines and ODST).
>
> Another issue with touching Raid as described above is that if it only affected marines, you basically slow them down if you move them with your snipers, cyclops and hellbringers (which is a common play for T1 and T2 Cutter) in order to keep your attacking army in tact.
I completely understand and agree with what you’re saying (on both accounts). But if you take away Cutter’s raid, you have nothing really. So it would bring the other UNSC leaders up, but it would bring Cutter down and still make Jerome the only viable UNSC to play as against Banished. I don’t quite have the answer, unless you make ODSTs more powerful and buildable or easier to drop (as they could still benefit from Raid).