Hidden rank even in social halo infinite. I feel this isn't getting enough attention. Hidden MMR across social and ranked. Unbalanced matchmaking

Ok so I feel this isn’t getting enough attention. Hi, I have been around the forums posting mostly about the twitch drops and BTB. Now that it looks like I have spent the time on those two problems. If you just want to blindly post your thoughts on hidden MMR to get some attention on the subject just skip the wall of text and please just post away. As the OP I have no problem with simply having a discussion as a community to shed some light on the subject, hopefully the devs will pay attention. I don’t expect this thread to get too much attention it doesn’t look like this has ever changed. It seems to be the way games are made now.

Halo infinite as well as the last couple iterations of halo, halo 5 etc. Has a hidden rank that effects who matchmaking wants to place you AGAINST and how teams are balanced even in social games. You can start a new account and play bot slayer, which is a social playlist and finish like 5 games (you will probably do really well) and then go in to do your ranking placement matches. You have to play 10 placement matches to be placed between silver and diamond 1 if you didn’t know. After you are placed you can take the grind to onyx, however it is different than someone who just plays social matches on that account. During your placements especially you are being placed against onyx in your placements even though you cannot place that high. This leads to a basically unfun multiplayer experience as your mmr goes up and down depending on how you do in say something like Big Team Battle. This leads to quitters although people quit just because sometimes.

A little bit of background. I’m the kind of person that does not mind being told when I get things mixed up. If memory serves me correctly this has been a thing since about halo 3 with the other dev that used to make halo games. However if memory serves me correctly they DID separate your mu and sigma or ELO from ranked to social eventually when they gave tiers of social experience so you could be a general in social slayer. Maybe they didn’t?

Solution for now either way for those that have read this far and still aren’t able to piece together what I am trying to say I’ll give a way around it. If you want to play social only you have to have a separate account for it. That second account would then only be used for social matches only.

Creating new unique users would be ethically wrong to do however you would be creating unique users which would effect how the dev team realistically takes feedback depending on how many unique users they see playing their game. Inflating the population is maybe not too good. ← probably a bad explanation

It is better to give a solution to the problem instead of simply complaining about it, is good time management and a better use of ones time. We don’t want to just complain about a problem without providing a solution or suggestion about what could be done better…I’m not a dev so I don’t know correct me if I am wrong. If 343i would remove hidden MMR across playlists wouldn’t it be as simple as making it so that searching would not look at MMR thus in turn making it so that matchmaking is faster leading to a smoother experience with more games? Would it break matchmaking because they NEED a hidden MMR? Would they need to test such a fix? It would just create more a mish mash of games done quickly with join in progress to create an over all faster maybe more chaotic like BTB slayer and social experience.

If you post and it sounds like good feedback I will try to add it to the post.

Dormiglione - I agree with you. Social should have the first priority on connection / ping. I dont care about rank in social. Bronze and Onyx players are welcome. See rest below.

SPARSTE96 - Remember, do not play against bots, as this will increase your overall MMR by a lot, even in standard playlists. I learned it the hard way

RipShaDe_41 - This will always be an issue unfortunately. I have had this issue with my friends too. My friends do not have nearly as high of a MMR and so they always find that when they play with me it’s harder for them.

It’s highly annoying and I can’t stand it for myself as well. I don’t want to sweat in social just because of a hidden rank and then my experience suffer since my friends aren’t as good and face ppl on the same level as me. So they don’t perform well and we lose majority of the time

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Like I said in the other thread. My friends are Diamond and Platinum. I’m Gold. I’ll warm up by stomping bots then join up with them. We would then proceed to be stomped by Onyx ranked opponents. This only happens when I play with them as they don’t play much matchmaking aside from Ranked, most of their time is spent in customs practicing.

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Halo 3 had the tiers 1-50. A casual player remained stuck between 23 - 27.
Halo 4 was something different. Not sure if they began with a type of hidden MMR.

Halo 5 Guardian has also this kind of “memory” of which type of player you are. But it has separate MMR ranks for different ranked playlists.

I noticed it when i played ranked slayer and ranked FFA.
My first 10 placement matches were horrible. I was placed Bronze. I fought my way up to gold. Stopped playing ranked. Next season new placement matches, i did very good, postive K/D, won more matches than lost, placed low silver. Fought my way up, past Gold 6.

Dont know why, i decided to try ranked FFA. Won 3 matches, 7 matched positive K/D and high placement. Placed high platin.
Next season, placement matches, didnt won 1 match, but went in every match positive and in alwas second, third or fourth. Placed high platin.

Also Halo 5 has this hidden memory. But i dont remember, that is was used in social matchmaking. Not like infinite.
To be honest, the system in halo infnite should show you in a transparent way, what hidden rank you have. And there should be an explanation on how you can improve it, once it is set.
Otherwise, the hidden rank should be reset with a new season. Thats the only way, it would be fair for all players.

I agree if it showed you then you would know. Once upon a time on the waypoint app on 360 it showed your mmr.

I sit on another side though. Your rank should not reflect on your social IMO.

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Hidden Rank in social? That’s why I don’t seem to ever find people who are actually good? Not saying I’m some God or anything but NOBODY plays amazingly that I’ve seen and I play A LOT. This “Hidden Rank” is imaginary.

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I did say this was an open forum. Personally the MMR effecting both social and ranked doesn’t effect me. This just seems like a subject that doesn’t get a lot of attention.

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You do play quite a bit. This is actually a thing. But you got a point the dev’s should say something about this that is why I am trying to broach the issue.

The hidden rank is very real, and very well documented. It’s called MMR.

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While there are issues with the application of it across social and ranked I think having it work across both is helpful to ensure that players enter ranked at the right benchmark. It would be unfair to everyone in Silver-Platinum if they constantly had to play people getting ranked if the system knew from social they are likely high tier Onyx players.

That being said, MMR Should absolutely not be factored into from BOT Bootcamp or any PvE playlist.

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^^^^I like this.
So in your opinion should your hidden mmr just effect the ranked playlist and not social?

So in other words. Yeah hidden MMR is fine just make sure it tracks those games you play in social to effect your matches in ranked so that as you do better in social your MMR and ranking goes up little bit by little bit?

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I agree with you. Social should have the first priority on connection / ping. I dont care about rank in social. Bronze and Onyx players are welcome.
Challenges are responsable, why people cant really enjoy social. If you have a challenge like “win 3 CTF match” then you go through quickplay list. If you are lucky, CTF is showing up more frequently, and you have to win the match.
This way you are under pressure because you need to win the match. And you dont know when will CTF show up again.

Im fine with MMR (hidden rank) and the visual tiers in ranked. The system needs to be improved but its better than the old ranked halo system level 1-50.

This has always been a problem without the challenges. A social experience should be just that a social experience not competitive.

However no one should be forced to pay for challenge swaps so that they don’t need to play ranked. Though I don’t believe getting rid of the challenges that have to do with ranked will get rid of the problem. You see what I mean?

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Remember, do not play against bots, as this will increase your overall MMR by a lot, even in standard playlists. I learned it the hard way

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This will always be an issue unfortunately. I have had this issue with my friends too. My friends do not have nearly as high of a MMR and so they always find that when they play with me it’s harder for them.

It’s highly annoying and I can’t stand it for myself as well. I don’t want to sweat in social just because of a hidden rank and then my experience suffer since my friends aren’t as good and face ppl on the same level as me. So they don’t perform well and we lose majority of the time

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If there are enough complaints it shouldn’t be.

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