Hear me out (Halo4infinity challenge)

Recently I made a rant about the tournament and sent it to -Yoink!- gaming. Just take it for what it’s worth (My opinion) but I would appreciate some positive feedback.

This is pertaining to the Spartan Ops portion of the tournament, however, makes some points about Wargames too.

To make a point about this tournament.
#1, #2, #3, #4 all played together (In Spartan Ops)
Once #1 found out how to do it fast (Thanks to #2) he ditched them and continued on his own, forming his own team of people who were no competition to him.
#1 Utilized multiple people to have his account playing 24/hours a day at this point.
#2,3, and 4 continued to play together, until about mid-tournament were #2 branched off on his own, getting his own team and using people to play 24/hours a day, in hopes of catching #1
3 and 4 stuck together, and purposely tied their games, in hopes of #1 and #2 being disqualified. In that event, the fact that they are tied would have made both of them the winners since they completed the games at the exact same time. Highly unlikely though.

For some reason #3 and #4 think that since #1 and #2 used multiple people/xbox they are breaking the rules
However, there is nothing in the rules stating that you can’t have multiple people playing on your account.
Needless to say, betrayal is the reason why #1 won. Ironically though, it was all thanks to #2 for coming up with the speedy ways of doing the map.

While, yes, the rules say that,

PLAYER BANS: Special note to all players that any competitor found or suspected to be cheating, stat padding or involved in any collusion will be removed from the leaderboard without any notice.

They don’t go into details explaining what their definitions of cheating, stat padding, or collusion is.

Cheating by a video games standard is using exploits not found in the game in order to gain the advantage. Using a games mechanic as an exploit isn’t cheating, but just that, an exploit. The underlying problem can be patched and prevented in the future, as opposed to “Cheating” which would be modifying the game in a way the developers didn’t accidentally implement or intend.
Having someone play in your stead, thus playing for 24/hours a day isn’t realistic for a single person, however, whose to say it can’t be done?
Albeit, some may find it unfair, anyone could have done it.
That’s my personal opinion on it though.
The only way to have made it fair would have been forcing the accounts to play by themselves.
Since the competition relied on a team of people who knew the in-game exploits, separating the team would have been the only viable option.

The point being. The game developers intended for the matches to be done anywhere between 8-12 minutes on average. The players were finishing matches in 4:30 on average due to enemy skips that were not intended by the developers, but were accidentally implemented.
These skips however are not possible with a single person. Only a team of 3-4 who would know the exact placement and conditions needed for said skip to occur.

On the other spectrum.
In Wargames
The #1 person for a good few days had been banned because of team cheating.
What he was doing was going into matches with a standard team,
this team however, would only do body shots, and refuse kills, leaving the #1 guy to clean up with headshots and maximize his points (Because Wargames was based on a weird point system). The guy would end up getting all 50 kills in the game. While, yes, it looks fishy, It’s not impossible. Just highly unlikely.
The way Halo 4 works is based on an automated system that detects unlikely game scenarios. It bases it based on player movement and shots fired. Thus why plugging in 8 controllers and playing with yourself over 2 xbox’s is easily detectable. The game knows to look for idle players. However, in the situation of this guy, there was none of that.
If the game felt that the player was cheating, the system would have been implemented automatically and would have banned him, but it didn’t.
They were legitimate players, playing the game legitimately, albeit, modifying the matches in their favor.
-Yoink!- Gaming deemed this as cheating, even though technically he was doing nothing wrong.
He was allowed to play with a team of people, and their influence could have effected the match, however, by technicality, he did nothing wrong.
Quite a predicament.

In the future, they need to make it individual account effort. While I can’t say that I would condone individual effort to a 100% max, the fact that these are based on a gaming profile should mean that other gaming profiles can’t influence the outcome.

/End Rant.

Im glad someone finally posted this. Some of my friends and I were trying to calculate how the top people in Spartan Ops could be as high as they were. It is confirmed that there are multiple people on their accounts to more or less have that account getting matches done 24 hours a day for the entire duration of the infinity challenge. I know most people won’t care about this, but in my opinion this is collusion to the umteenth degree. It’s physically impossible for someone to sit in front of their TV for a whole week straight and game.

I think that may also be the reason no one has received an email stating anything about the prize they won. Might be a week or so until we even get any response regarding this. It was all a mess in my opinion and hope they set up the next competition in a different manner so this mess doesn’t happen again.

brandon035

Even playing 24/hours, As you can see by the leaderboards knowing the exploit is a big difference. It took me a total of 3 days to figure it out, however, by then it was too late.

Here’s how it worked.

Spartan Ops Episode 5, Chapter 2

At the beginning of the match, have a single (or two) person(s) run to the objective. The remaining two people grab shotguns and proceed to the upper level. Once the objective is triggered,kill the spawning Knight (not by beat-down, in order to keep his life ‘orb’ on the upper level). Everyone would focus on the Watchers that are trying to spawn the turret/revive the Knight, and if killed fast enough, it would cause all the Watchers to Agro onto reviving, making it to where none of them were focused on shooting/killing the players. This could be achieved in under 30 seconds.

Once done, proceed downstairs to the area where the Marines gather. Hand them shotguns (Doesn’t always effect the outcome, but helps), and get every player in position. Using auto-turrets, when the Crawlers spawn, every one Agro’s onto the turrets, exploiting easy head-shots. 2 Knights will spawn. Due to player placement, both Knights should be assassinated/killed before they can spawn Watchers. Once all enemies are eliminated, the next wave will spawn and trigger the scientist event.

At this point, two people need to protect the scientists while killing as many crawlers as they can as quickly as they can. The other two proceed to the top where a batch of crawlers and a knight spawns. Assassinate/Kill the knight before it can spawn a Watcher. Promptly afterwards (After a certain number of enemies die), two Knights will spawn downstairs. One on top of the ramp, one below. These can both be assassinated/killed before they become a problem. Mop up the area of enemies and proceed to the next audio dialogue cutscene.

Here is where the unfair exploits occur.

Dr. Boyd at this point tells about an objective that will stop the Forerunner invasion. All you need to do is know where the objective is, stand in-front of it while he is talking, and hold the activation button. If done correctly, activating the device would cause none of the enemies to spawn, and thus would cause the next audio-cutscene to occur. (This caused a huge difference in gameplay seeing as if missed, 4-6 Knights would spawn, and subsequently spawn 4-6 Watchers).

After activating the device and skipping the enemies, proceed to the top of the level, where the big rotating orb thing is located. Here is where another skip could occur (We never figured out what caused it, but it was speculated to be on a 10 second cycle).

Depending on if the orb co-operated, sometimes it would open up before the ball of light would reach the top. In the event it opened up and exposed the ball early, the ball of light could be quickly destroyed, causing none (or just the 3 Knights) of the enemies to spawn, cutting off anywhere between 30-seconds to full minutes of gameplay). If the Orb is not co-operating, a simple placement of people could assassinate all 3 Knights, and then promptly clean up the remaining crawlers.

Special Side Note. If you couldn’t manage to kill the ball before the enemies spawned, there was a way to get about 10 seconds back. After the enemies spawn, quickly kill them all, leaving 1 left. Destroy the orb of light and then IMMEDIATELY kill the last enemy. This would cause the game to abruptly end in the middle of Dr. Boyd either praising you for saving the scientists, or scolding you for letting them die. It only saved about 10 seconds, but it makes a difference in the long run.

/End Tutorial

With the right people this could be done on average in 4 minutes 30 seconds (With the fastest time I noticed being 3 minutes 22 seconds). That’s noticeably faster than the developers intended. However, like I said, this particular exploit couldn’t be done single handily.

Great tutorial. I knew this about 3.5 days into the competition before I actually got a group of 4 and taught them the strategy. After that it was simple. I played Caulderon Base prior to that mission and was doing it in 7-7.5 mins a game.

Regardless of how fast you can do the 2nd mission, I still dont feel right about these people having huge numbers and not getting reset/banned for it. Its not a fair competition if you can have 3 people playing on your account so you can beat other people. Those guys wouldnt have even been first page if it wasnt for these “colluding” tactics.

192 hours for the competition and they have 1732 games played?!?! Thats 9 games an hour every hour the entire competition. Im sorry, but if they get those prizes that they didnt earn by themselves I will personally never compete in another VG tournament again. Thats plain ridiculousness!

Btw, Im number 87 on tier 2 and my internet was out for a whole day during the competition. I was on the top of page 2 for two days. These guys arent legit and this IS the definition of stat padding.

/rant

That is very accurate with the exception of one thing. The “button press”, which saves a huge amount of time as you pointed out, CAN be done without the need for a team. That is also where the largest amount of time could be saved.

He never said the button required more than one, and while he never said it didn’t, most people should know by now that all buttons in the game only need one person.

Blackstratus commented “The point being. The game developers intended for the matches to be done anywhere between 8-12 minutes on average. The players were finishing matches in 4:30 on average due to enemy skips that were not intended by the developers, but were accidentally implemented.
These skips however are not possible with a single person. Only a team of 3-4 who would know the exact placement and conditions needed for said skip to occur.”

I’m not attacking him Psychotic and you’re right that most people should know that. I’m just merely pointing out that the exploit that saved the most amount of time could be done with one person.

Also with a team and only using that exploit (not the ball kill) it was possible to finish games within 4:30 seconds. I’m just trying to help examine all parts of this discussion.

Sorry for the double post but I want to throw out an opinion here. I agree it would be nice to get rid of these exploits, but I don’t think eliminating being able to play consistently with other players is the best approach. For those players willing to put in long hours, it’s nice to be able to talk with people whose company you enjoy. Also I feel the true spirit of Halo is found in team work. I realize this was a competition for prizes, but I feel removing the ability to play with your friends would take a lot out of the experience of the tournament. An alternative option I would suggest is perhaps 343 Industries could coordinate with whoever is holding a tournament to have Spartan Ops maps available that don’t have these exploits within them. Obviously it’s not always easy to predict where there are exploits but with ample time, which there was in this tournament, it should be possible to significantly reduce them. Ideally I feel being able to go in with people of your choice and to work together to clear out the same amount of enemies as efficiently as possible without the fear of exploits to change that number would be the way to go.

ah ok, well its elaborated more now for others lol.

Yep, you never know when you might miss what would appear to be common sense lol :slight_smile:

While this may be true, it still doesnt justify having 2 extra people playing on your (not you personally of course) account when you are asleep/working so that you dont miss out on playing games! Play when you can and play as many games a possible. The fact that people even think about getting a second or third person to play on their account so they can get a high rank is just sad in my opinion. Like it gives them some sense of self worth for being on the 1st page of a video game leaderboard.

Here’s an idea! How about people quit manipulating things and play them the way they were intended. Would it hurt to have a legit competition for once instead of discussing who should and shouldn’t be banned?!? It’s becoming redundant really quick.

I finished in the Top 100 on tier 2 while having a full time job, and a child to. Shouldn’t be that hard to play legit.

I definitely agree. I feel amounts of time being the basic structure is a terrible basis for a tournament and it is unfortunate that this structuring seems to encourage such resorts.

I think there are about 7 people total who care.

> I think there are about 7 people total who care.

So you’re one of those 7 right? Otherwise why are you posting?!? Kthnxbye :slight_smile:

Incentive from ranking up in forums perhaps? :wink: LOL