I was watching it yesterday and I thought damn, this is what went into creating the beta and is alone creating Halo 5. I was sitting here thinking that people don’t trust 343 to make Halo 5 a success, but then again is it all of 343 they don’t trust, or just a certain group? You got Quin, which oversees really everything from the art direction for the MP maps to making sure the maps in Halo 5 look great and the Spartan Abilities work on the maps. But then you got the Pro Team, which consists of Ghost, Neigbor, Dersky, and some other Pros I cannot remember the names. Now I know they were pro’s in Halo back in the day, hence MLG, but even though they work with 343, you would think they won’t just agree with everything 343 hands to them, if something didn’t fit, I’m sure they’d sound a bark. Has anyone ever thought to ask them specifically about what do you think about the direction Halo is going, not just 343? Of what they think about these new Spartan Abilities, Sprint, and ADS? All of them, played Halo for the most part of their career, and yeah maybe even went towards COD when Halo got taken off the circuit, but these players came from playing the Halo series.
Has anyone thought about that?
FYI, there were already “pros” (I don’t know who exactly) working with 343 on War Games during the development of Halo 4, and we all know how that turned out…
From a development perspective, that series was a view into the reality of making the beta. It would be nice if they continued the series while development changes were being made post beta, if only to show the fans something as a result of their participation. I enjoyed watching it, and unlike the united sources on this forum of who is making Halo (there are farore than ex-cod employees, and some from companies people have voiced could make a “better” Halo game). At least they are showing some faces to the community (at least in MP. Let’s see some Campaign talent!).
The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
> 2533274913936758;4:
> The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
> 2533274913936758;4:
> The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
Not sure where you’re going with that one.
> 2533274913936758;4:
> The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
Have you even watched the videos - every test ends with feedback, similar to how the beta feedback was supposed to be (not what the forums have become).
Just because people speak up doesn’t mean there is consensus, either. If something game breaking showed up, at least we have dedicated players to find it (Halo players, no less. Not standard testers or execs). No one hires someone to a role requiring feedback without listening to said feedback. Do you know what a play tester is?
> 2533274801176260;2:
> FYI, there were already “pros” (I don’t know who exactly) working with 343 on War Games during the development of Halo 4, and we all know how that turned out…
Not true. There were no pros who directly helped with Halo 4. Maybe playtesters, but not actual developers.
> 2533274877056440;8:
> > 2533274801176260;2:
> > FYI, there were already “pros” (I don’t know who exactly) working with 343 on War Games during the development of Halo 4, and we all know how that turned out…
>
>
> Not true. There were no pros who directly helped with Halo 4. Maybe playtesters, but not actual developers.
So no special people, such as Certain Affinity?
> 2535435268621863;5:
> > 2533274913936758;4:
> > The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
>
>
> you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
Yeah, because listening to the pros they hired is how Halo 4 was made. Great logic.
> 2535423595683400;9:
> > 2533274877056440;8:
> > > 2533274801176260;2:
> > > FYI, there were already “pros” (I don’t know who exactly) working with 343 on War Games during the development of Halo 4, and we all know how that turned out…
> >
> >
> >
> > Not true. There were no pros who directly helped with Halo 4. Maybe playtesters, but not actual developers.
>
>
> So no special people, such as Certain Affinity?
Definitely worth noting, because they might not be “pro” developers in the triple A sense, but as far as MP goes, this company is the reason for Halo 2 mp (so blame map design on them).
> 2533274913936758;10:
> > 2535435268621863;5:
> > > 2533274913936758;4:
> > > The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
> >
> >
> >
> > you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
>
>
> Yeah, because listening to the pros they hired is how Halo 4 was made. Great logic.
Which Halo pros worked for them at the time of developing Halo 4?
Not to mention this goes against the idea of a play tester. If you don’t listen to people you hire to give feedback, then you’re paying people money to not do their job. This is false. Especially noted in the Sprint videos.
> 2535458386964330;11:
> > 2533274913936758;10:
> > > 2535435268621863;5:
> > > > 2533274913936758;4:
> > > > The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah, because listening to the pros they hired is how Halo 4 was made. Great logic.
>
>
> Which Halo pros worked for them at the time of developing Halo 4?
>
> Not to mention this goes against the idea of a play tester. If you don’t listen to people you hire to give feedback, then you’re paying people money to not do their job. This is false. Especially noted in the Sprint videos.
Neighbor and Ghost. Possibly Bravo.
> 2533274913936758;12:
> > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > 2533274913936758;10:
> > > > 2535435268621863;5:
> > > > > 2533274913936758;4:
> > > > > The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, because listening to the pros they hired is how Halo 4 was made. Great logic.
> >
> >
> >
> > Which Halo pros worked for them at the time of developing Halo 4?
> >
> > Not to mention this goes against the idea of a play tester. If you don’t listen to people you hire to give feedback, then you’re paying people money to not do their job. This is false. Especially noted in the Sprint videos.
>
>
> Neighbor and Ghost. Possibly Bravo.
Thank you for the enlightenment. However, that doesn’t change much about this discussion - without knowing 100% what the dev environment was like for 4 (or even 5 at the moment, post beta), we cannot assume that pro players provided feedback that was explicitly ignored. If someone had a strong conviction that they stifled for money, or voiced concerns daily just to be told their opinion didn’t matter at all, then 2 possible things are true: 1. Money matters over opinion (so their opinion would not mean anything to us, let alone themselves) or 2. They must really have a reason to continue working against what they believe in (thus providing even further lapse in their integrity). Either way, if someone’s input didn’t matter then, something definitely changed in bringing more pros to the team from the Halo 2 Era (the group that 343 is trying to emulate)
> 2535458386964330;13:
> > 2533274913936758;12:
> > > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > > 2533274913936758;10:
> > > > > 2535435268621863;5:
> > > > > > 2533274913936758;4:
> > > > > > The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, because listening to the pros they hired is how Halo 4 was made. Great logic.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Which Halo pros worked for them at the time of developing Halo 4?
> > >
> > > Not to mention this goes against the idea of a play tester. If you don’t listen to people you hire to give feedback, then you’re paying people money to not do their job. This is false. Especially noted in the Sprint videos.
> >
> >
> >
> > Neighbor and Ghost. Possibly Bravo.
>
>
> Thank you for the enlightenment. However, that doesn’t change much about this discussion - without knowing 100% what the dev environment was like for 4 (or even 5 at the moment, post beta), we cannot assume that pro players provided feedback that was explicitly ignored. If someone had a strong conviction that they stifled for money, or voiced concerns daily just to be told their opinion didn’t matter at all, then 2 possible things are true: 1. Money matters over opinion (so their opinion would not mean anything to us, let alone themselves) or 2. They must really have a reason to continue working against what they believe in (thus providing even further lapse in their integrity). Either way, if someone’s input didn’t matter then, something definitely changed in bringing more pros to the team from the Halo 2 Era (the group that 343 is trying to emulate)
Or they like being paid and want to keep their jobs. You don’t go to work and tell your manager his way of running things is completely wrong and expect to stay employed unless you have a saint for a boss.
> 2533274913936758;14:
> > 2535458386964330;13:
> > > 2533274913936758;12:
> > > > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > > > 2533274913936758;10:
> > > > > > 2535435268621863;5:
> > > > > > > 2533274913936758;4:
> > > > > > > The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, because listening to the pros they hired is how Halo 4 was made. Great logic.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Which Halo pros worked for them at the time of developing Halo 4?
> > > >
> > > > Not to mention this goes against the idea of a play tester. If you don’t listen to people you hire to give feedback, then you’re paying people money to not do their job. This is false. Especially noted in the Sprint videos.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Neighbor and Ghost. Possibly Bravo.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for the enlightenment. However, that doesn’t change much about this discussion - without knowing 100% what the dev environment was like for 4 (or even 5 at the moment, post beta), we cannot assume that pro players provided feedback that was explicitly ignored. If someone had a strong conviction that they stifled for money, or voiced concerns daily just to be told their opinion didn’t matter at all, then 2 possible things are true: 1. Money matters over opinion (so their opinion would not mean anything to us, let alone themselves) or 2. They must really have a reason to continue working against what they believe in (thus providing even further lapse in their integrity). Either way, if someone’s input didn’t matter then, something definitely changed in bringing more pros to the team from the Halo 2 Era (the group that 343 is trying to emulate)
>
>
>
> Or they like being paid and want to keep their jobs. You don’t go to work and tell your manager his way of running things is completely wrong and expect to stay employed unless you have a saint for a boss.
When your job is to provide feedback on how the game works/what is broken/what is good/balance (as the sprint videos show), then actually, yes that is your job. You are paid not to sugarcoat the work being done, and if you play test every day and just grab your check to have it, then your integrity is no worth anything to the community (in this case, as proof of Halo 4 getting away with bad mechanics, if that is true).
You can’t say having pros does not aid development if the pros sacrifice their integrity for a check. Because then they are hindering development and doing a bad job. That isn’t a problem with the process, that is a problem with the employee, at that point.
Edit - but to be fair, this is talking about people that play video games for a living (at one time making 200k+). As a software engineer that had to take loans for schooling, I would definitely hate to have overpaid testers ignore their own devices in favor of getting paid. For that kind of money, they should be more than willing to speak up, as it would add value to their lifestyle/career path.
> 2535458386964330;15:
> > 2533274913936758;14:
> > > 2535458386964330;13:
> > > > 2533274913936758;12:
> > > > > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > > > > 2533274913936758;10:
> > > > > > > 2535435268621863;5:
> > > > > > > > 2533274913936758;4:
> > > > > > > > The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah, because listening to the pros they hired is how Halo 4 was made. Great logic.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Which Halo pros worked for them at the time of developing Halo 4?
> > > > >
> > > > > Not to mention this goes against the idea of a play tester. If you don’t listen to people you hire to give feedback, then you’re paying people money to not do their job. This is false. Especially noted in the Sprint videos.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Neighbor and Ghost. Possibly Bravo.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for the enlightenment. However, that doesn’t change much about this discussion - without knowing 100% what the dev environment was like for 4 (or even 5 at the moment, post beta), we cannot assume that pro players provided feedback that was explicitly ignored. If someone had a strong conviction that they stifled for money, or voiced concerns daily just to be told their opinion didn’t matter at all, then 2 possible things are true: 1. Money matters over opinion (so their opinion would not mean anything to us, let alone themselves) or 2. They must really have a reason to continue working against what they believe in (thus providing even further lapse in their integrity). Either way, if someone’s input didn’t matter then, something definitely changed in bringing more pros to the team from the Halo 2 Era (the group that 343 is trying to emulate)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Or they like being paid and want to keep their jobs. You don’t go to work and tell your manager his way of running things is completely wrong and expect to stay employed unless you have a saint for a boss.
>
>
> When your job is to provide feedback on how the game works/what is broken/what is good/balance (as the sprint videos show), then actually, yes that is your job. You are paid not to sugarcoat the work being done, and if you play test every day and just grab your check to have it, then your integrity is no worth anything to the community (in this case, as proof of Halo 4 getting away with bad mechanics, if that is true).
>
> You can’t say having pros does not aid development if the pros sacrifice their integrity for a check. Because then they are hindering development and doing a bad job. That isn’t a problem with the process, that is a problem with the employee, at that point.
>
> Edit - but to be fair, this is talking about people that play video games for a living (at one time making 200k+). As a software engineer that had to take loans for schooling, I would definitely hate to have overpaid testers ignore their own devices in favor of getting paid. For that kind of money, they should be more than willing to speak up, as it would add value to their lifestyle/career path.
You really have no idea what a playtester is do you? You’re confusing it with a gameplay designer.
> 2533274913936758;12:
> > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > 2533274913936758;10:
> > > > 2535435268621863;5:
> > > > > 2533274913936758;4:
> > > > > The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, because listening to the pros they hired is how Halo 4 was made. Great logic.
> >
> >
> >
> > Which Halo pros worked for them at the time of developing Halo 4?
> >
> > Not to mention this goes against the idea of a play tester. If you don’t listen to people you hire to give feedback, then you’re paying people money to not do their job. This is false. Especially noted in the Sprint videos.
>
>
> Neighbor and Ghost. Possibly Bravo.
Those Guys Were Brought in to “playtest” Halo 4 Only months before release. The Halo 5 “pro team” has been working with the development teams Since the beginning As seen in “the sprint” video. There is a big difference.
Oh yeah 343 is not listen Yup we still have Loadouts, Ordinance, No static timers, No descope. No equal starts Nope the dont listen at all lol
> 2533274796029854;17:
> > 2533274913936758;12:
> > > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > > 2533274913936758;10:
> > > > > 2535435268621863;5:
> > > > > > 2533274913936758;4:
> > > > > > The pros 343 hired are playtesters. I’m sure if they decided to speak out against the direction 343’s gone with Halo they’d just lose their jobs. No one is listening to them obviously.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > you are just -Yoinking!- ignorant now
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, because listening to the pros they hired is how Halo 4 was made. Great logic.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Which Halo pros worked for them at the time of developing Halo 4?
> > >
> > > Not to mention this goes against the idea of a play tester. If you don’t listen to people you hire to give feedback, then you’re paying people money to not do their job. This is false. Especially noted in the Sprint videos.
> >
> >
> >
> > Neighbor and Ghost. Possibly Bravo.
>
>
> Those Guys Were Brought in to “playtest” Halo 4 Only months before release. The Halo 5 “pro team” has been working with the development teams Since the beginning As seen in “the sprint” video. There is a big difference.
>
> Oh yeah 343 is not listen Yup we still have Loadouts, Ordinance, No static timers, No descope. No equal starts Nope the dont listen at all lol
Proving yet again that they won’t be satisfied unless we have Halo 2.5 or Halo 3.5.