Before this week’s media reveal, the community only had the PAX game play footage, most of which are off-screen and are not reliable for weapon stats analysis. Now we have better sources, has anybody performed analysis and got more accurate numbers?
If yes, please point me to it. Thanks!
> > Here’s one by Nexy.
> >
> > It goes through the BR, DMR, LR and Carbine.
>
> Nexys numbers are wrong.
Best/only numbers we have so far though. Even if the numbers are a little off, they’re a good indicator as to how the main weapons generally compare to each other.
Actually, a few people went back and corrected Nexy’s numbers as best they could.
> New stats:
> DMR: 1.46s (44f)
> Carbine: 1.63 (49f)
> BR: 1.80s (54f)*
> LR unscoped: 1.80s (54f)
> LR scoped: 1.40s (42f)*
>
> The LR unscoped in Nexy’s off-screen PAX gameplay matches up very well when compared with the ViDoc’s LR (both having an 11 frame RoF), ergo it’s pretty damn good off-screen footage. So I used it to see if the BR changed at all since E3 as well as seeing if the LR scoped kill time can be attained. The BR matches up with the E3 build (both having an 11 frame RoF). LR unscoped appears to have a 13 frame RoF, so it’s a 39 frame kill (13(4-1)). Even though that stat is 100% taken from off-screen footage, I’ll say it’s pretty spot on since that video is very consistent with captured gameplay.
> Actually, a few people went back and corrected Nexy’s numbers as best they could.
>
>
>
> > New stats:
> > DMR: 1.46s (44f)
> > Carbine: 1.63 (49f)
> > BR: 1.80s (54f)*
> > LR unscoped: 1.80s (54f)
> > LR scoped: 1.40s (42f)*
> >
> > The LR unscoped in Nexy’s off-screen PAX gameplay matches up very well when compared with the ViDoc’s LR (both having an 11 frame RoF), ergo it’s pretty damn good off-screen footage. So I used it to see if the BR changed at all since E3 as well as seeing if the LR scoped kill time can be attained. The BR matches up with the E3 build (both having an 11 frame RoF). LR unscoped appears to have a 13 frame RoF, so it’s a 39 frame kill (13(4-1)). Even though that stat is 100% taken from off-screen footage, I’ll say it’s pretty spot on since that video is very consistent with captured gameplay.
>
> Thread.
Interesting. So it’s probably best to use either the DMR or Light Rifle.
Well if you want my honest opinion, I don’t think kill times mean everything. There are other factors as well like lag over xbox live, team mates and enemies, the fact that your opponent will probably be jumping/moving around, etc.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I’ll be sticking to my Carbine regardless.
> Actually, a few people went back and corrected Nexy’s numbers as best they could.
>
>
>
> > New stats:
> > DMR: 1.46s (44f)
> > Carbine: 1.63 (49f)
> > BR: 1.80s (54f)*
> > LR unscoped: 1.80s (54f)
> > LR scoped: 1.40s (42f)*
> >
> > The LR unscoped in Nexy’s off-screen PAX gameplay matches up very well when compared with the ViDoc’s LR (both having an 11 frame RoF), ergo it’s pretty damn good off-screen footage. So I used it to see if the BR changed at all since E3 as well as seeing if the LR scoped kill time can be attained. The BR matches up with the E3 build (both having an 11 frame RoF). LR unscoped appears to have a 13 frame RoF, so it’s a 39 frame kill (13(4-1)). Even though that stat is 100% taken from off-screen footage, I’ll say it’s pretty spot on since that video is very consistent with captured gameplay.
>
> Thread.
Looks like the carbine nerf wasn’t too significant.
Still not sure about the BR kill time. I’d rather they made it a 4 shot and just extended the time between bursts or something.
Does anyone know how many individual BR bullets it takes to kill or pop a shield?
Bump?
> Does anyone know how many individual BR bullets it takes to kill or pop a shield?
I believe that the current consensus is that Carbine takes 7 shots to strip the shields and a final headshot for the kill. Interval between shots is 7 frames minimum, make it a (8-1) * 7 = 49 frames kill.
People need to realise that killtimes are not the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced or not.
If it was the only factor then weapons with a near zero kill time, the SR for example, would win everytime but they simply don’t.
Yes killtime is a factor, but it is only one factor out of many.
> People need to realise that killtimes are not the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced or not.
>
> If it was the only factor then weapons with a near zero kill time, the SR for example, would win everytime but they simply don’t.
>
> Yes killtime is a factor, but it is only one factor out of many.
You don’t spawn with a Sniper Rifle. And a good Sniper will win any situation.
One example is the BR vs the DMR: The DMR fires faster, has more shots per magazine, and is more accurate. What makes you want to use the BR when it kills almost a second slower, has less shots per magazine, spread, and recoil?
> You don’t spawn with a Sniper Rifle. And a good Sniper will win any situation.
>
> One example is the BR vs the DMR: The DMR fires faster, has more shots per magazine, and is more accurate. What makes you want to use the BR when it kills almost a second slower, has less shots per magazine, spread, and recoil?
And yet there are countless examples of where a sniper doesn’t win everytime?
The BR is easier to use at shorter distances. It has a 3 shot burst compared with the DMR’s single shot. You have failed to take either of these two facts into consideration.
Also the BR doesn’t take a second longer to kill than the DMR, stop simply making things up.
> > You don’t spawn with a Sniper Rifle. And a good Sniper will win any situation.
> >
> > One example is the BR vs the DMR: The DMR fires faster, has more shots per magazine, and is more accurate. What makes you want to use the BR when it kills almost a second slower, has less shots per magazine, spread, and recoil?
>
> And yet there are countless examples of where a sniper doesn’t win everytime?
>
> The BR is easier to use at shorter distances. It has a 3 shot burst compared with the DMR’s single shot. You have failed to take either of these two facts into consideration.
>
> Also the BR doesn’t take a second longer to kill than the DMR, stop simply making things up.
The BR doesn’t have an ‘all 3 shots from a burst will land-guarantee’. The BR has burst fire and spread making it less accurate. LESS did you get that? EASIER TO MISS. It has recoil, fires slower etc, etc.
The DMR will be better in the hands of almost any player because at it’s core the BR<DMR
Stop defending the current BR and accept it the facts.
Not that it’ll be a huge difference, just a notable one and there is no need to hide the truth.
> The BR doesn’t have an ‘all 3 shots from a burst will land-guarantee’. The BR has burst fire and spread making it less accurate. LESS did you get that? EASIER TO MISS. It has recoil, fires slower etc, etc.
>
> The DMR will be better in the hands of almost any player because at it’s core the BR<DMR
>
> Stop defending the current BR and accept it the facts.
>
> Not that it’ll be a huge difference, just a notable one and there is no need to hide the truth.
As you failed to reply to my comment about the sniper rifle I am going to assume you accept that the kill time is not the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced?
I never claimed the 3 shots of the BR are guaranteed to hit, they aren’t. Just like the DMR’s single shot isn’t guaranteed either, but here is the point you seem to keep missing (pun intended), you have more chance to hit with the BR’s 3 shots compared to the DMR’s 1.
You also failed to support your claim that the BR takes a second longer to kill someone than the DMR, so I am going to assume you accept you were talking out of your -Yoink- with that one.
Your claim that the DMR>BR simply isn’t supported by evidence. I have given you several examples of the BR being better than the DMR and you have either ignored them or not understood them.
All of the gameplay we have seen so far shows the BR to be performing pretty good, the DMR certainly isn’t dominating as you would lead us to believe. Ultimately however I suggest you what until you play the damn game before jumping to any vapid conclusions that any single weapon is going to be better than another.
It’s interesting to see that many threads on this forum turn into somewhat “religious” debate. I was hoping to keep the thread restricted to facts sharing, looks like that’s just wishful thinking 
I am not for or against any opinions people have expressed regarding BR vs. DMR. Both weapons had fans in the past games, and will certain have fans in Halo 4.
I just want to point out a few objective (or at least less subjective) views, for what it is worth:
(Note: here weapon god is defined as the divine being who not only has perfect gun skills, but more importantly, also have insurmountable network advantage over opponents.Every player wants to become the weapon god, and some already consider themselves are. This is why TTK always gets the most attention
To make BR and DMR balance with each other, it is my OPINION that DMR should have less TTK simply due to firing mode of single shot vs. 3 round burst. The firing mode does not make much difference when striping the shields, but it is undeniable that 3 round burst has a huge advantage over single shot for getting the final headshot, which only needs 1 bullet to hit. it can’t be stress enough that this significantly increase the odds of sccuess. This is important even for players with the best skills because they are still at mercy of the network latency. One simple technique is “face painting”: which has proven very useful for players at almost all skill levels.
Keep in mind that the people at 343 have been working (and playing) with these weapons for a long time. They not only use these weapons to hit each other, but they know how exactly each one works. Let’s give them the trust they deserve (at the very least, the reasonable doubt) that they can do a fine job balancing weapons like BR vs.DMR. The task is challenging, but is reasonably straight forward.
> It’s interesting to see that many threads on this forum turn into somewhat “religious” debate. I was hoping to keep the thread restricted to facts sharing, looks like that’s just wishful thinking
I too wish people would stick to the facts instead of simply making up nonsense such as the BR takes a second longer to kill than the DMR.
There is this obsession at the moment with kill times being the only factor in regards to weapon balancing, like you said in a perfect world where everyone was a ‘Weapon God’,as you eloquently put it, then yes kill time would be the only factor, but the fact is no one is a weapon God.
> Does anyone know how many individual BR bullets it takes to kill or pop a shield?
If the Battle Rifle is a five shot kill, the first four shots are needed to destroy the shield. And since it’s a three round burst, 4 x 3 = 12. Twelve individual bullets will pop a shield. One burst is 25% shield damage.
As for kills, it gets interesting. Assuming a single BR bullet to the unshielded head is lethal and I think it is, 13 bullets will kill a spartan. And since the BR is a 5 shot kill, it will always fire 15 bullets. This means you have a 2 bullet margin of error. As long as any 13 of the 15 bullets hit and the last is a dome shot, the BR will kill your target.
Correct me if I’m wrong. I’m assuming a BR burst does as much damage as 1 DMR round.
> > Does anyone know how many individual BR bullets it takes to kill or pop a shield?
>
> If the Battle Rifle is a five shot kill, the first four shots are needed to destroy the shield. And since it’s a three round burst, 4 x 3 = 12. Twelve individual bullets will pop a shield. One burst is 25% shield damage.
Not neccesarily. If it’s a 5SK, that means the 13th, 14th or 15th bullet will kill (assuming you are accurate, and you pop the shield and immediatly headshot). So, it will take anywhere between 12 and 14 bullets to pop the shield. Does anyone know exactly how many? This is important for calculating how how many bullets you can miss and how effective teamshots will be.
Also, does anyone have the same info (bullets to pop shield) for the Light Rifle?
And has anyone thought of comparing reload times?