Has 343 Really COPIED other games?

One of the biggest complaints I have heard about 343 is how many features they copied from COD and put into Halo 4 and 5.

I would like to address how this is a misnomer at best, and a downright blatant lie at worst.

Sprint, custom loadouts, ADS, weapon skins, ordinance drops, perks, enhanced mobility, etc, are all features that have been criticized as being put into Halo “for no reason other than to copy COD”. While I will agree that some of these features, like custom loadouts and ordinance, drops have no place in traditional Halo gametypes, I do think that many of the features added are overall, a benefit to Halo. Adding features like weapon skins, sprint, ADS, enhanced mobility are not just for the sake of “being in the same genre as COD”. I believe these changes have benefited Halo for sure.

Now I know there are Bungie Zealots typing their next crucifixion threat at me, but hear me out…

The first car produced in America to have Air conditioning was the 1940 Packard 120 Coupe. Does this mean that ALLLLL cars that were built by other companies afterward were stealing the idea from Packard? NO! Air conditioning is a feature that we can all agree has made cars better. For the most part, the features 343 has added, borrowing from other games, has made Halo a better experience. Obviously some of their features I have mentioned before detract from the Halo experience. But is that to say that ALLL features 343 has added are bad? “If Bungie didn’t make it, I don’t like it” is the most toxic mentality I have ever seen in the Halo community.

I met someone on multiplayer yesterday who had assassinations turned off for, I quote “Because I’m a purist who is protesting 343”. Yes, he knows Bungie introduced assassinations first, and he hated Reach as well. he was willing to throw away EVERYTHING good that 343 has added just because “343 is bad”.

I’m not saying 343 is above criticism for the mistakes they’ve made with their games. However you cannot deny that many of the features they added have made the game better. Who cares if these features were found in other games before it? Shooting guns was in games before Halo, and walking around, and customizing armor, and throwing grenades, and multiplayer. Who decides what features are ok to include in games? MOST game features are borrowed or modified from other games before it, that’s just how game design works.

Don’t let your nostalgia ruin a mostly good experience.

> 2533274980278427;1:
> MOST game features are borrowed or modified from other games before it, that’s just how game design works.

I don’t believe the problem is borrowing ideas, but it’s more about putting those ideas in the game even if it creates gameplay issues or even nerfing those ideas instead of just removing them in later games even though they still cause gameplay issues. I’m not gonna get into which ones were good or not because that doesn’t go anywhere, but I do hope people stop trying to make it a Bungie or 343 thing. I think even the purists know that Bungie were the ones who made Reach and 343 continued down that path.

I loved the Packard with a/c analogy. Spot on.

Here I was all excited by the idea that some non-extremist was posting about how it’s okay to shake up the formula a little bit here and there even if the shake up is borrowed, and then I read this:

“…custom loadouts and ordinance drops have no place in traditional Halo gametypes…”

So some borrowed ideas are good but others cross some magical line? Or the ones you like are okay but the ones you don’t are the ones that go too far? Or they’re okay if they’re in Halo 5 but if they’re in Halo 4 then they’re bad? Where’s the line?

> 2533274873843883;3:
> I loved the Packard with a/c analogy. Spot on.
>
> Here I was all excited by the idea that some non-extremist was posting about how it’s okay to shake up the formula a little bit here and there even if the shake up is borrowed, and then I read this:
>
> “…custom loadouts and ordinance drops have no place in traditional Halo gametypes…”
>
> So some borrowed ideas are good but others cross some magical line? Or the ones you like are okay but the ones you don’t are the ones that go too far? Or they’re okay if they’re in Halo 5 but if they’re in Halo 4 then they’re bad? Where’s the line?

Let me clarify. I do believe that classic Halo has a formula that other FPS games steer away from: starting each match with equal weapons and opportunity. Very few FPS games have done that in the past and even today. I think it is an integral part of how Halo functions. I personally love the Halo 4 gametypes that allow custom loadouts and ordinances, but I know that it really is a step away from “everyone starts the game on equal footing”. I said I would like to see it in a less integral gametype, but not gone completely.

I agree that there is no magical line that can be crossed when making a Halo game, but it is important to realize that, in some capacity, Bungie Zealots are right when they say “this isn’t Halo”. Halo Slayer is most certainly about starting each match on equal footing to your opponent.

Like I said, I still love the customization Halo 4 allowed, but I think it is better left as a gametype that is more of a side thing rather than the main attraction.

343 might take inspiration games but it’s never direct ripoffs whereas other companies have stolen almost exact models and weapons like how in cod infinite warfare on of the special operators pooms like Jorge and his weapon is just a Halo 5 rocket launcher called the spartan, mabye 343 did copy some stuff but they arnare nearly as bad as others

> 2535408347673455;5:
> 343 might take inspiration games but it’s never direct ripoffs whereas other companies have stolen almost exact models and weapons like how in cod infinite warfare on of the special operators pooms like Jorge and his weapon is just a Halo 5 rocket launcher called the spartan, mabye 343 did copy some stuff but they arnare nearly as bad as others

I know exactly what you mean. When Luke the Notable reacted to COD copying Halo, he said something like “Are you serious 343? You’re letting them get away with this? This is all your fault!”

asinine

> 2533274980278427;1:
> The first car produced in America to have Air conditioning was the 1940 Packard 120 Coupe. Does this mean that ALLLLL cars that were built by other companies afterward were stealing the idea from Packard? NO! Air conditioning is a feature that we can all agree has made cars better.

Except, Halo is not just another car, another military FPS MP shooter. It was a Team based, tactical Arena shooter.

Dumping things like sprint and ADS in to Halo is more akin to putting air con in to all motor vehicles, even your Harley Motorcycle, just because it made other vehicles better.

I liked the combat of halo five but never really played it outside of custom games

If halo has never had a kill cam and cod does then next thing you know halo has a kill cam yes that’s copying in my opinion.

Except they were, and did according to 343 themselves. What was it that Frankie said back in H4 dev…“We hired people that didn’t really like Halo” something like that.

Hired people from other studios to bring fresh ideas, that took the game out of the niche that it held in the market, and tried to appeal to other players, by adding similar movement and shooting mechanics. Which isn’t a bad idea (unless you can’t really pull players from other games, which H4 and H5 haven’t really done).

I get the hate for reach. It was a testing ground for Destiny and Sage’s little “Shadowrun” contribution to the Halo universe. The real kicker now is that the FPS market has stagnated to the point where one chooses between fandom or good mechanics and content. H5 was alright, but there was no way they can compete against titles like CoD, Titanfall, Battlefield, Battlefront, ect. All of these had a solid core gameplay, decent “expected” content, and gave their fans what they wanted, and have done so for years.

> 2598282106454479;10:
> Except they were, and did according to 343 themselves. What was it that Frankie said back in H4 dev…“We hired people that didn’t really like Halo” something like that.

Because this gets mis-quoted so often, this is the full quote which provides necessary context for the comments:

> “We had people who we hired who hated Halo because of ‘X,’” says O’Connor. “But what that really meant was, ‘I feel like this game could be awesome because of ‘Y input’ that I’m going to bring into it. I want to prove it, and I’m passionate about proving it.’ So we ended up with a bunch of people who were genuinely passionate about the product. That is a huge advantage, and that helped in hiring and forming our team.”

> 2533274813317074;11:
> > 2598282106454479;10:
> > Except they were, and did according to 343 themselves. What was it that Frankie said back in H4 dev…“We hired people that didn’t really like Halo” something like that.
>
> Because this gets mis-quoted so often, this is the full quote which provides necessary context for the comments:
>
>
> > “We had people who we hired who hated Halo because of ‘X,’” says O’Connor. “But what that really meant was, ‘I feel like this game could be awesome because of ‘Y input’ that I’m going to bring into it. I want to prove it, and I’m passionate about proving it.’ So we ended up with a bunch of people who were genuinely passionate about the product. That is a huge advantage, and that helped in hiring and forming our team.”

Thank you for the exact quote I was having trouble finding it.

I have worked in those conditions before though, sometimes being overly passionate (especially about your own creative ideas) can be blinding in the long run and it’s one of the reasons the quote stuck out to me. It’s also why I brought up Shadowrun, it’s similar to what Bungie did with Reach.

> 2547348539238747;7:
> > 2533274980278427;1:
> > The first car produced in America to have Air conditioning was the 1940 Packard 120 Coupe. Does this mean that ALLLLL cars that were built by other companies afterward were stealing the idea from Packard? NO! Air conditioning is a feature that we can all agree has made cars better.
>
> Except, Halo is not just another car, another military FPS MP shooter. It was a Team based, tactical Arena shooter.
>
> Dumping things like sprint and ADS in to Halo is more akin to putting air con in to all motor vehicles, even your Harley Motorcycle, just because it made other vehicles better.

Back in the 40’s, Packard was one of the highest acclaimed luxury comfort vehicles. Basically the American version of Mercedes. It was not just another car.
You are right when you say “These things were not found in halo”, but my question to you is “Why are these features bad? Simply because Bungie didn’t make them?”

> 2535435109040224;9:
> If halo has never had a kill cam and cod does then next thing you know halo has a kill cam yes that’s copying in my opinion.

It may be copying, but is it bad? Why is including a kill cam bad? That’s like saying “That Chevy Impala is not allowed to have a second set of headlights because Ford did it first.”

Copying and taking inspiration from other game features is not bad.

Please present an argument to me when you have identified something about Halo 5 that EVERYONE can agree is bad.

> 2598282106454479;10:
> I get the hate for reach. It was a testing ground for Destiny and Sage’s little “Shadowrun” contribution to the Halo universe. The real kicker now is that the FPS market has stagnated to the point where one chooses between fandom or good mechanics and content. H5 was alright, but there was no way they can compete against titles like CoD, Titanfall, Battlefield, Battlefront, ect. All of these had a solid core gameplay, decent “expected” content, and gave their fans what they wanted, and have done so for years.

How can Halo give fans what they want when the fans want FIRST GEN MECHANICS??? No one will buy a game like that unless there’s a lot more indie gamers than I think there are.

OP, just a note - in future please don’t post multiple time in a row. If you need to add more information or quote other users, you can edit your last post. Thanks

> 2533274980278427;14:
> > 2535435109040224;9:
> > If halo has never had a kill cam and cod does then next thing you know halo has a kill cam yes that’s copying in my opinion.
>
> It may be copying, but is it bad? Why is including a kill cam bad? That’s like saying “That Chevy Impala is not allowed to have a second set of headlights because Ford did it first.”
>
> Copying and taking inspiration from other game features is not bad.
>
> Please present an argument to me when you have identified something about Halo 5 that EVERYONE can agree is bad.

Your post is about 343 copying other games. My statement is proof that they have copied another game. Nothing less nothing more.

> 2533274980278427;15:
> > 2598282106454479;10:
> > I get the hate for reach. It was a testing ground for Destiny and Sage’s little “Shadowrun” contribution to the Halo universe. The real kicker now is that the FPS market has stagnated to the point where one chooses between fandom or good mechanics and content. H5 was alright, but there was no way they can compete against titles like CoD, Titanfall, Battlefield, Battlefront, ect. All of these had a solid core gameplay, decent “expected” content, and gave their fans what they wanted, and have done so for years.
>
> How can Halo give fans what they want when the fans want FIRST GEN MECHANICS??? No one will buy a game like that unless there’s a lot more indie gamers than I think there are.

Where do you get that? When did I state that (and it’s not 1st gen, it’s the middle of 7th/ 8th if anything) mechanics are what fans wanted?

You also have no evidence for your claim. I have no evidence to state that going back to vanilla CE is going to bring back gamers, which is why I didn’t say it.

All I said is that if you stray too far from the niche, and can’t compete content wise, and mechanics wise, players will leave. Ok and that if the mechanics are too similar and offer too close of an experience to your competition, you only have fandom to rely on for player retention.

Halo can totally be changed in a way that uses new fresh ways to innovate, it’s just so far 343’s “innovations” have been mostly done before, and seem like they were implemented poorly across 3 titles.

> 2598282106454479;18:
> > 2533274980278427;15:
> > > 2598282106454479;10:
> > > I get the hate for reach. It was a testing ground for Destiny and Sage’s little “Shadowrun” contribution to the Halo universe. The real kicker now is that the FPS market has stagnated to the point where one chooses between fandom or good mechanics and content. H5 was alright, but there was no way they can compete against titles like CoD, Titanfall, Battlefield, Battlefront, ect. All of these had a solid core gameplay, decent “expected” content, and gave their fans what they wanted, and have done so for years.
> >
> > How can Halo give fans what they want when the fans want FIRST GEN MECHANICS??? No one will buy a game like that unless there’s a lot more indie gamers than I think there are.
>
> Where do you get that? When did I state that (and it’s not 1st gen, it’s the middle of 7th/ 8th if anything) mechanics are what fans wanted?
>
> Halo can totally be changed in a way that uses new fresh ways to innovate, it’s just so far 343’s “innovations” have been mostly done before, and seem like they were implemented poorly across 3 titles.

I meant to say 1st gen as in Halo’s first gen.

Idk man, the latest innovative and original thing to happen to any FPS was Titanfall, and before than, Portal.

Do you ever get the idea that FPS genre is running out of ideas? You can’t honestly expect 343 to maintain that high standard of coming up with new game mechanics when pretty much all innovations have already been made.

What innovation would you be happy with 343 adding that has never been seen before?

Ohhhhhhhh burn. That’s right, you can’t.

And are you saying that Bungie mostly came up with original innovations? Gadgets in halo 3 was in numerous games before it, duel wielding was in lots of games too, CE was basically only original in gameplay because it was spread out and had a tighter control scheme than Golden Eye. CE did almost nothing new at the time, yet it is praised for being sooooo innovative.

Where do we draw the line between innovation and inspiration?

> 2533274980278427;19:
> > 2598282106454479;18:
> > > 2533274980278427;15:
> > > > 2598282106454479;10:
> > > > I get the hate for reach. It was a testing ground for Destiny and Sage’s little “Shadowrun” contribution to the Halo universe. The real kicker now is that the FPS market has stagnated to the point where one chooses between fandom or good mechanics and content. H5 was alright, but there was no way they can compete against titles like CoD, Titanfall, Battlefield, Battlefront, ect. All of these had a solid core gameplay, decent “expected” content, and gave their fans what they wanted, and have done so for years.
> > >
> > > How can Halo give fans what they want when the fans want FIRST GEN MECHANICS??? No one will buy a game like that unless there’s a lot more indie gamers than I think there are.
> >
> > Where do you get that? When did I state that (and it’s not 1st gen, it’s the middle of 7th/ 8th if anything) mechanics are what fans wanted?
> >
> > Halo can totally be changed in a way that uses new fresh ways to innovate, it’s just so far 343’s “innovations” have been mostly done before, and seem like they were implemented poorly across 3 titles.
>
> I meant to say 1st gen as in Halo’s first gen.
>
> Idk man, the latest innovative and original thing to happen to any FPS was Titanfall, and before than, Portal.
>
> Do you ever get the idea that FPS genre is running out of ideas? You can’t honestly expect 343 to maintain that high standard of coming up with new game mechanics when pretty much all innovations have already been made.
>
> What innovation would you be happy with 343 adding that has never been seen before?
>
> Ohhhhhhhh burn. That’s right, you can’t.
>
> And are you saying that Bungie mostly came up with original innovations? Gadgets in halo 3 was in numerous games before it, duel wielding was in lots of games too, CE was basically only original in gameplay because it was spread out and had a tighter control scheme than Golden Eye. CE did almost nothing new at the time, yet it is praised for being sooooo innovative.
>
> Where do we draw the line between innovation and inspiration?

Chill out man. That’s how you got your last thread locked.