Hardware, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!

Games Other Halo
1

Every time there’s a discussion about a member giving out ideas to expand for forge or adding the features most of the community has been asking for, for ages someone says…

Ohhh, maybe on the “720” this can happen, cause the 360 cannot handle this.

Like terrain editing, weather, AI, etc.

Honestly, it’s just an excuse and most players don’t seem to realize the 360 is like the PC. Even before the 360 was released, games were released too! Developing games and modding in the PC world are the same exact thing. However modding is done by the community. Games older than the 360 on the PC still had full blown AI, map editing, etc. But it was all about scrunching the resources you had. What a lot of people don’t get is that modding games let’s you do EXACTLY what developers do, CREATE A NEW GAME. So you do ANYTHING (on the game’s engine), like creating your own models for AI and objects, (like I’ve seen custom guns from the Aliens movie into a zombie game or Skyrim dragons in garrys mod.) and have full control over map properties, coding, etc. DayZ is a successful example of modding but that doesn’t mean modding can’t be pushed further.

If you wanna counter, look at Farcry, they have a great map editor (still limited though.) Already it was said Reach was using all the resources the 360 can handle, and yet now they are saying again the 360 is being pushed to it’s limit with H4 yet it looks much better, and has even more improvements. What should have been done was a real limit bar, where you can do absolutely anything like adding AI, terrain, textures, etc. And you can keep putting more things until you reach the limit. The items are not all the same and worth the same amount so certain items would fill up the meter faster. And if AI was enabled, you just can’t have 16 players like maybe 4-8 instead. If it’s to hard to Forge AI, terrain, etc. Then you wouldn’t have to forge these and you could just download empty maps with certain terrain built for the community from the community.

I already know computers probably older than 09’ wouldn’t even handle the graphics that H4 is delivering and yet they have the unlimited possibilities the modding community has to offer. Really it’s just the 360 is so locked up by Microsoft we really cannot do much. So were so restricted to what we can do and nothing has really come up for the 360 gamers at all. If I were to play H4 on a semi-older PC I would probobly set the resolution, effects, etc. To LOW so the PC wouldn’t start lagging up and having issues.

I used to start saying also, that the 360 won’t be able to handle modding and full blown SDK style map editors until I only started playing the PC instead of the 360. As I said they are similar, and all these things are actually possible on the 360. (Really, I’m only going to get a new Xbox 360 just for Halo 4, and maybe some other games later on the year or next year that would be viable to game on instead of my iMac IF they are even released for the consoles to… -_-). The Xbox 360 could be pushed to it’s real limit, as it’s still getting new games all the time which still look better than older PC games!

Let’s take a Halo or GOW map. It looks great and sure looks visually better than the Forged maps, but it doesn’t even start lagging up when your in a game with the max players in the party. OR when your playing 4 player co-op in campaign even though the maps are much larger in campaign. Cause it’s not supposed to lag. They made the map but scrunched the resources they had to make it. We honestly can get the resources developers use to make maps and make outstanding maps with a lag limit. Don’t start saying Forge cannot be expanded with features when your playing on maps the developers made when they specifically made them so they wouldn’t start lagging.

I’m just guessing that 343/Certain Affinity does not have the time to add all these features, or it was not a big deal to them?

What happens if modding, or even all the great features we have been asking for doesn’t come to the “720”?

I know it was a long post and it would get sidetracked to the modding, but I had a lot of opinions I really wanted to express to some of the kids who think the 360 is better than the PC, and hopefully get other people to have an understanding to it. I might edit or add more opinions about it if it comes to me, and I know some of you guys might flame but for the other people who get me what would you think?

Responses to Clarify…

> A ToplessZombie;1306873 wrote:
> I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.
>
> That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> SCENDER; You do realize all the maps you have ever played since Halo 1 were using a full blown map editor with terrain editing? It’s honestly not the features we can get, it’s who’s making the map. If they have Arena in mind, I GUARANTEE someone will come up in the community and make “classic” Halo Arena maps all the veterans would know and love.
>
> And you honestly should know that the community is much faster to respond and if Halo Vets and Casuals made maps according to what they feel would be great, alot of amazing maps would be made and everyone can be pleased instead of blaming developers for not making maps they would like.
>
> Valve is really emphasizing the modding community and the community in general. They now have a Workshop feature where players can download mods, skins, addons, etc with just a click of a button. All of the mods and add ons have ratings made by the community so you would know if it’s good and reliable.
>
> If your concerned about the community having SDK tools for Halo or atleast an expanded Forge, you would atleast know if the Forger is good enough determined by ratings. I honestly wouldn’t mind though, there’s always going to be crappy map makers using modding tools and SDK but to know that there’s really good ones out there gives a very high chance of more creative and amazing maps.

2

TLDR. However I did see the first part and I’m pretty sure your right, Farcry 1 and 2 both had complete terrain editing modes although they might not have as good graphics or as many other options for forging they still have it so I have no doubt halo could handle it.

Its not something I really care about though, it would never make or break the game for me.

3

I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.

That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.

4

> I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.
>
> That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.

You do realize all the maps you have ever played since Halo 1 were using a full blown map editor with terrain editing? It’s honestly not the features we can get, it’s who’s making the map. If they have Arena in mind, I GUARANTEE someone will come up in the community and make “classic” Halo Arena maps all the veterans would know and love.

And you honestly should know that the community is much faster to respond and if Halo Vets and Casuals made maps according to what they feel would be great, alot of amazing maps would be made and everyone can be pleased instead of blaming developers for not making maps they would like.

Valve is really emphasizing the modding community and the community in general. They now have a Workshop feature where players can download mods, skins, addons, etc with just a click of a button. All of the mods and add ons have ratings made by the community so you would know if it’s good and reliable.

If your concerned about the community having SDK tools for Halo or atleast an expanded Forge, you would atleast know if the Forger is good enough determined by ratings. I honestly wouldn’t mind though, there’s always going to be crappy map makers using modding tools and SDK but to know that there’s really good ones out there gives a very high chance of more creative and amazing maps.

5

Trials Evolution.
Arcade game.
$15.
Best “Forge” ever.

Why can’t 343i add USEFUL things in Forge with one of the highest budget in Videogames?

6

I think it would be a good idea to see what else is improved in Halo 4’s Forge before bashing them and saying they’re too lazy or don’t care about Forge.

We’ve been shown a work in progress model, showcasing some of the new additions.

7

> > I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.
> >
> > That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.
>
> You do realize all the maps you have ever played since Halo 1 were using a full blown map editor with terrain editing? It’s honestly not the features we can get, it’s who’s making the map. If they have Arena in mind, I GUARANTEE someone will come up in the community and make “classic” Halo Arena maps all the veterans would know and love.

Halo Custom Edition’s map editor didn’t have a terrain editor like what people are suggesting, you had to use a 3rd party modeling software.
Also, hardware does have a lot to do with everything that goes in with in software. 343i has said that they’re pushing the 360’s hardware, and can you honestly tell me that Farcry’s graphics was pushing the 360’s hardware?

AIs, it’s not hardware that limits them, it’s netcode. Think about it, some people have issues with playing CoOp campaign online, and firefight, where there was lag, and issues with AIs here and there. Now imagine that with MP. It’s one thing to have a match full of 16 players, it’s another thing to have a mix between AI and players.

8

> > I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.
> >
> > That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.
>
> You do realize all the maps you have ever played since Halo 1 were using a full blown map editor with terrain editing? It’s honestly not the features we can get, it’s who’s making the map. If they have Arena in mind, I GUARANTEE someone will come up in the community and make “classic” Halo Arena maps all the veterans would know and love.
>
> And you honestly should know that the community is much faster to respond and if Halo Vets and Casuals made maps according to what they feel would be great, alot of amazing maps would be made and everyone can be pleased instead of blaming developers for not making maps they would like.
>
> Valve is really emphasizing the modding community and the community in general. They now have a Workshop feature where players can download mods, skins, addons, etc with just a click of a button. All of the mods and add ons have ratings made by the community so you would know if it’s good and reliable.
>
> If your concerned about the community having SDK tools for Halo or atleast an expanded Forge, you would atleast know if the Forger is good enough determined by ratings. I honestly wouldn’t mind though, there’s always going to be crappy map makers using modding tools and SDK but to know that there’s really good ones out there gives a very high chance of more creative and amazing maps.

I thought we were talking about giving the community map making abilities. We already know the developers have all the tools, of course every map is made using a map maker.

The difference is what the developers use and what they let the community use.

9

> > > I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.
> > >
> > > That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.
> >
> > You do realize all the maps you have ever played since Halo 1 were using a full blown map editor with terrain editing? It’s honestly not the features we can get, it’s who’s making the map. If they have Arena in mind, I GUARANTEE someone will come up in the community and make “classic” Halo Arena maps all the veterans would know and love.
>
> Halo Custom Edition’s map editor didn’t have a terrain editor like what people are suggesting, you had to use a 3rd party modeling software.
> Also, hardware does have a lot to do with everything that goes in with in software. 343i has said that they’re pushing the 360’s hardware, and can you honestly tell me that Farcry’s graphics was pushing the 360’s hardware?
>
> AIs, it’s not hardware that limits them, it’s netcode. Think about it, some people have issues with playing CoOp campaign online, and firefight, where there was lag, and issues with AIs here and there. Now imagine that with MP. It’s one thing to have a match full of 16 players, it’s another thing to have a mix between AI and players.

That’s what my OP said, if AI was enabled the player cap would be decreased to 4-8 players, but atleast people would be able to make zombie maps with AI. Bungie even said they were pushing the 360’s limits with REACH, now their saying the same about H4??? I didn’t even mention Halo Custom Edition at all. I never used it. I’m talking about older games, not HALO. When your modding and making maps on PC your using the dev’s SDK which is still running under the game’s engine.

10

> > > I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.
> > >
> > > That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.
> >
> > You do realize all the maps you have ever played since Halo 1 were using a full blown map editor with terrain editing? It’s honestly not the features we can get, it’s who’s making the map. If they have Arena in mind, I GUARANTEE someone will come up in the community and make “classic” Halo Arena maps all the veterans would know and love.
> >
> > And you honestly should know that the community is much faster to respond and if Halo Vets and Casuals made maps according to what they feel would be great, alot of amazing maps would be made and everyone can be pleased instead of blaming developers for not making maps they would like.
> >
> > Valve is really emphasizing the modding community and the community in general. They now have a Workshop feature where players can download mods, skins, addons, etc with just a click of a button. All of the mods and add ons have ratings made by the community so you would know if it’s good and reliable.
> >
> > If your concerned about the community having SDK tools for Halo or atleast an expanded Forge, you would atleast know if the Forger is good enough determined by ratings. I honestly wouldn’t mind though, there’s always going to be crappy map makers using modding tools and SDK but to know that there’s really good ones out there gives a very high chance of more creative and amazing maps.
>
> I thought we were talking about giving the community map making abilities. We already know the developers have all the tools, of course every map is made using a map maker.
>
> The difference is what the developers use and what they let the community use.

I’m trying to explain to him that, giving full features to map editing would not destroy the old Halo feel. People will actually make classic like Arena maps that people have been asking for especially if the map editors want this also. He sounds like giving us full features will destroy Halo even though all the maps he has played from Halo 1 to Reach were all made from a full on map editor.

11

> if AI was enabled the player cap would be decreased to 4-8 players, but atleast people would be able to make zombie maps with AI.

And what’s you thoughts on how to fix the main issue, netcode, even with a small player cap, you’re still going to have issues with AIs and netcode, it’s not the amount of players that is the issue, it’s the AI’s and how they sync with every one.

12

> > > > I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.
> > > >
> > > > That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.
> > >
> > > You do realize all the maps you have ever played since Halo 1 were using a full blown map editor with terrain editing? It’s honestly not the features we can get, it’s who’s making the map. If they have Arena in mind, I GUARANTEE someone will come up in the community and make “classic” Halo Arena maps all the veterans would know and love.
> > >
> > > And you honestly should know that the community is much faster to respond and if Halo Vets and Casuals made maps according to what they feel would be great, alot of amazing maps would be made and everyone can be pleased instead of blaming developers for not making maps they would like.
> > >
> > > Valve is really emphasizing the modding community and the community in general. They now have a Workshop feature where players can download mods, skins, addons, etc with just a click of a button. All of the mods and add ons have ratings made by the community so you would know if it’s good and reliable.
> > >
> > > If your concerned about the community having SDK tools for Halo or atleast an expanded Forge, you would atleast know if the Forger is good enough determined by ratings. I honestly wouldn’t mind though, there’s always going to be crappy map makers using modding tools and SDK but to know that there’s really good ones out there gives a very high chance of more creative and amazing maps.
> >
> > I thought we were talking about giving the community map making abilities. We already know the developers have all the tools, of course every map is made using a map maker.
> >
> > The difference is what the developers use and what they let the community use.
>
> I’m trying to explain to him that, giving full features to map editing would not destroy the old Halo feel. People will actually make classic like Arena maps that people have been asking for especially if the map editors want this also. He sounds like giving us full features will destroy Halo even though all the maps he has played from Halo 1 to Reach were all made from a full on map editor.

There is a difference between developer maps and community maps.

He is likely referring to the community mapa, not the map maker. You can make Halo maps in map makers, of course. But to whar extent can the majority of the community do it?

13

I’m cool with forge. Full map editing is more of a PC thing because its sooooooooo much easier on that platform as opposed to Xbox.

14

> Every time there’s a discussion about a member giving out ideas to expand for forge or adding the features most of the community has been asking for, for ages someone says…
>
> Ohhh, maybe on the “720” this can happen, cause the 360 cannot handle this.
>
> Like terrain editing, weather, AI, etc.
>
> Honestly, it’s just an excuse and most players don’t seem to realize the 360 is like the PC. Even before the 360 was released, games were released too! Developing games and modding in the PC world are the same exact thing. However modding is done by the community. Games older than the 360 on the PC still had full blown AI, map editing, etc. But it was all about scrunching the resources you had. What a lot of people don’t get is that modding games let’s you do EXACTLY what developers do, CREATE A NEW GAME. So you do ANYTHING (on the game’s engine), like creating your own models for AI and objects, (like I’ve seen custom guns from the Aliens movie into a zombie game or Skyrim dragons in garrys mod.) and have full control over map properties, coding, etc. DayZ is a successful example of modding but that doesn’t mean modding can’t be pushed further.
>
> If you wanna counter, look at Farcry, they have a great map editor (still limited though.) Already it was said Reach was using all the resources the 360 can handle, and yet now they are saying again the 360 is being pushed to it’s limit with H4 yet it looks much better, and has even more improvements. What should have been done was a real limit bar, where you can do absolutely anything like adding AI, terrain, textures, etc. And you can keep putting more things until you reach the limit. The items are not all the same and worth the same amount so certain items would fill up the meter faster. And if AI was enabled, you just can’t have 16 players like maybe 4-8 instead. If it’s to hard to Forge AI, terrain, etc. Then you wouldn’t have to forge these and you could just download empty maps with certain terrain built for the community from the community.
>
> I already know computers probably older than 09’ wouldn’t even handle the graphics that H4 is delivering and yet they have the unlimited possibilities the modding community has to offer. Really it’s just the 360 is so locked up by Microsoft we really cannot do much. So were so restricted to what we can do and nothing has really come up for the 360 gamers at all. If I were to play H4 on a semi-older PC I would probobly set the resolution, effects, etc. To LOW so the PC wouldn’t start lagging up and having issues.
>
> I used to start saying also, that the 360 won’t be able to handle modding and full blown SDK style map editors until I only started playing the PC instead of the 360. As I said they are similar, and all these things are actually possible on the 360. (Really, I’m only going to get a new Xbox 360 just for Halo 4, and maybe some other games later on the year or next year that would be viable to game on instead of my iMac IF they are even released for the consoles to… -_-). The Xbox 360 could be pushed to it’s real limit, as it’s still getting new games all the time which still look better than older PC games!
>
> Let’s take a Halo or GOW map. It looks great and sure looks visually better than the Forged maps, but it doesn’t even start lagging up when your in a game with the max players in the party. OR when your playing 4 player co-op in campaign even though the maps are much larger in campaign. Cause it’s not supposed to lag. They made the map but scrunched the resources they had to make it. We honestly can get the resources developers use to make maps and make outstanding maps with a lag limit. Don’t start saying Forge cannot be expanded with features when your playing on maps the developers made when they specifically made them so they wouldn’t start lagging.
>
> I’m just guessing that 343/Certain Affinity does not have the time to add all these features, or it was not a big deal to them?
>
> What happens if modding, or even all the great features we have been asking for doesn’t come to the “720”?
>
>
> I know it was a long post and it would get sidetracked to the modding, but I had a lot of opinions I really wanted to express to some of the kids who think the 360 is better than the PC, and hopefully get other people to have an understanding to it. I might edit or add more opinions about it if it comes to me, and I know some of you guys might flame but for the other people who get me what would you think?
>
> Responses to Clarify…
>
>
>
> > A ToplessZombie;1306873 wrote:
> > I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.
> >
> > That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > SCENDER; You do realize all the maps you have ever played since Halo 1 were using a full blown map editor with terrain editing? It’s honestly not the features we can get, it’s who’s making the map. If they have Arena in mind, I GUARANTEE someone will come up in the community and make “classic” Halo Arena maps all the veterans would know and love.
> >
> > And you honestly should know that the community is much faster to respond and if Halo Vets and Casuals made maps according to what they feel would be great, alot of amazing maps would be made and everyone can be pleased instead of blaming developers for not making maps they would like.
> >
> > Valve is really emphasizing the modding community and the community in general. They now have a Workshop feature where players can download mods, skins, addons, etc with just a click of a button. All of the mods and add ons have ratings made by the community so you would know if it’s good and reliable.
> >
> > If your concerned about the community having SDK tools for Halo or atleast an expanded Forge, you would atleast know if the Forger is good enough determined by ratings. I honestly wouldn’t mind though, there’s always going to be crappy map makers using modding tools and SDK but to know that there’s really good ones out there gives a very high chance of more creative and amazing maps.

Yay my overlooked misspell made it to the OP !

15

> Yay my overlooked misspell made it to the OP !

Lol, I saw that, but I was like screw it haha.

16

> > > > I like forge. I think a full terrain editor would kind of ruin the game. Halo mapos have always been about the whole arena concept… Having terrain options would take too much away from the classic Halo feel.
> > > >
> > > > That all said It certainly is possible, but I think 343i feels the same way I do.
> > >
> > > You do realize all the maps you have ever played since Halo 1 were using a full blown map editor with terrain editing? It’s honestly not the features we can get, it’s who’s making the map. If they have Arena in mind, I GUARANTEE someone will come up in the community and make “classic” Halo Arena maps all the veterans would know and love.
> > >
> > > And you honestly should know that the community is much faster to respond and if Halo Vets and Casuals made maps according to what they feel would be great, alot of amazing maps would be made and everyone can be pleased instead of blaming developers for not making maps they would like.
> > >
> > > Valve is really emphasizing the modding community and the community in general. They now have a Workshop feature where players can download mods, skins, addons, etc with just a click of a button. All of the mods and add ons have ratings made by the community so you would know if it’s good and reliable.
> > >
> > > If your concerned about the community having SDK tools for Halo or atleast an expanded Forge, you would atleast know if the Forger is good enough determined by ratings. I honestly wouldn’t mind though, there’s always going to be crappy map makers using modding tools and SDK but to know that there’s really good ones out there gives a very high chance of more creative and amazing maps.
> >
> > I thought we were talking about giving the community map making abilities. We already know the developers have all the tools, of course every map is made using a map maker.
> >
> > The difference is what the developers use and what they let the community use.
>
> I’m trying to explain to him that, giving full features to map editing would not destroy the old Halo feel. People will actually make classic like Arena maps that people have been asking for especially if the map editors want this also. He sounds like giving us full features will destroy Halo even though all the maps he has played from Halo 1 to Reach were all made from a full on map editor.

With full terrain editors I feel the community would flood the file servers with an oversaturation of terrain featured maps, and several concepts that completely ignore good map design simply to incorperate their hand crafted landmasses. I just don’t like the idea of everyone having a full tool box.

17

Its not the hardware really, aside from the small amount of memory, its the game engine. Halo’s engine is inefficient.

18

Memory and disk space. The problem with FC2 was that most of the disk went into the map editor, and not enough to the multiplayer and server information. In the end, a really awesome campaign, great multiplayer, and forge is enough for me.

19

> Trials Evolution.
> Arcade game.
> $15.
> Best “Forge” ever.
>
>
> Why can’t 343i add USEFUL things in Forge with one of the highest budget in Videogames?

Because I do not want to have 5 frame per second like in trials.

People have such lack of knowledge.
Also FORGE was never meant to be A MAP EDITOR, it was DESIGNED to be a small thing to EDIT SMALL things on a map like a weapon or a spawn.
Never was intended to be a map editor.

20

its how the game usues the hardware thats why most halos havent been native hd until now.