Halo's weapons need to function more uniquely.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

343 has said at one point that they were proud of their weapon sandbox balance due to how each weapon was now viable to use. But the biggest issue I find with this sandbox comes from how most precision and automatic weapon weapons act as upgrades to one another, and establish overlapping roles. I want to try creating more weapons with established niches from our current sandbox with unique traits from one another. This should help bring a more complex sandbox that forces players to think more on what weapon they actually want to use instead of establishing “go-to” weapons in their head. But attempting to balance so many weapons in this game is no simple task unfortunately, and I would rather rebuild the sandbox from scratch. But anyway, special thanks to Ramir3z77 for most of these suggestions.

First off, the pistol needs to change to a 4 shot kill and have its ideal kill time become 1 second (or less). We need an established utility weapon in this game, because there is no reason to keep the pistol when the DMR or BR are there to replace the pistol as an upgrade. This is also to increase individual empowerment so that players are not forced to rely on team shooting to make successful pushes, and so that their skill can potentially beat team shooting if they’re good enough. For the BR and DMR, we need to give better traits so that they don’t function like simple upgrades of each other.

For the DMR, we can make the weapon require more than 1 shot from enemy players to descope (depending on the weapon used) but reduce the rate of fire, just so that this weapon is more specialized for long range combat. To counteract this change, the BR will be the only tier 1 weapon to descope the DMR in one burst, but we might not need this ability for the BR.

The storm rifle should play out like the brute plasma rifle, in that it deals high shield damage but low player health damage, with a faster overheat rate than currently to emphasize accuracy (which would then have the BPR removed). This weapon would also gain the ability to prevent players from using sprint when damaged by the storm rifle (even while players are currently sprinting in the middle of taking damage). It would be a great and skillful alternative compared to the overpowered mess we have with the current storm rifle.

The AR needs to have its head shot multiplier removed to be balanced as an automatic weapon, considering how most headshots are earned from luck due to the hip fire spread.

Now I’m a little torn by what we can do with the SMG. I have two ideas in mind; we can increase the SMG’s hip fire spread comparable to the CE AR so that the weapon will be heavily weakened the further the enemy is. Or we can try to reduce its kill time currently to be slower than all the precision weapons, but faster than the AR and provide a speed boost when equipped to further separate the weapon as a CQC automatic apart from the AR.

Now this is an interesting change suggested by Ramir3z77 for the scattershot: “Scattershot should have more range and tighter spread. Make it multiply in projectiles but decrease in range and increase in spread every time it hits a surface, so it can potentially destroy a hallway. Would bounce a maximum of three times before vanishing.” This would further separate the functions of the 2 shotguns in the game and make them more unique from each other than currently.

For the hydra, I really want to change its function as a CQC weapon. Right now, the missile tracking and lock-on time is absolutely superb, and I’ll leave that as it is. But I want 343 to revert back to the original damage profiles of the hydra before its buff so that the radius damage is decreased, but dramatically increase missile velocity when fired without lock on. This would make it so that players need to get direct impact hits from the hydra to secure kills, while making this method easier to accomplish, instead of simply firing at the ground to kill the enemy by splash damage. This would severely increase the skill gap of the hydra at CQC (possibly at medium range too) and allow the pros to make more interesting uses of the hydra.

Finally as a side note, I want 343 to remove all smart-scope benefits in terms of increased red reticule range and decreased bullet spread (for automatic weapons) so that players don’t receive massive benefits when smart-scoping at range. Additionally, weapon switching times should be dramatically reduced to accommodate weapon combinations during gunfights and allow more usage of all weapons in the sandbox without needing to buff said weapons. If you have any other suggestions to tweak the weapons (especially Promethean weapons since I can’t think of any), please post them. Thanks.

TL;DR
Pistol- 4 shot kill, no bullet magnetism
DMR- multiple shots needed to de scope user.
BR-only weapon to de scope DMR with one pull of the trigger (1 burst)
SMG-heavy hip fire spread (like the CE AR) OR longer TTK/speed boost while in use
Storm rifle- significantly reduced damage on health, disables players from using sprint even if they were already sprinting (and replaces brute plasma rifle)
AR- no headshot multiplier
Scattershot- tighter spread, longer range, multiplies in projectiles for every time it bounces of walls but in the process, decreases in range and increases in spread. Bounces at most, 3 times before disappearing.
Hydra- reduced splash radius (original hydra), significantly increased missile velocity without lock on

Shorter time to switch weapons, remove smart-scope benefits (red reticule range increase/reduced bullet spread for all weapons).

2

“First off, the pistol needs to change to a 3 shot kill and have its ideal kill time become 1 second (or less). We need an established utility weapon in this game, because there is no reason to keep the pistol when the DMR or BR are there to replace the pistol as an upgrade. This is also to increase individual empowerment so that players are not forced to rely on team shooting to make successful pushes, and so that their skill can potentially beat team shooting if they’re good enough. For the BR and DMR, we need to give better traits so that they don’t function like simple upgrades of each other.”

This is an awful awful idea. Why does the pistol need to be useful throughout the match? What says it isn’t currently? And why shouldn’t team shooting be important.

3

Why make the pistol a three shot kill with an even faster ttk?

As as for the Dmr: why decrease its rate of fire if it’s a long range weapon? That gives players more time to run when shot at, at least up the damage if your wanting to cut its fire rate to give my favorite weapon a chance. Br is fine as is IMO.

AR: I agree with scrapping headshot multiplier, but something I’ll add is decrease its range a tad bit, it’s fine if people burst fire for the added accuracy, but it shouldn’t be as accurate if it’s spraying an entire clip

SMG: fine as is

no comment on the scatter shot nor hydra, I just don’t use them very often to understand them.

4

> 2535422603742100;2:
> “First off, the pistol needs to change to a 3 shot kill and have its ideal kill time become 1 second (or less). We need an established utility weapon in this game, because there is no reason to keep the pistol when the DMR or BR are there to replace the pistol as an upgrade. This is also to increase individual empowerment so that players are not forced to rely on team shooting to make successful pushes, and so that their skill can potentially beat team shooting if they’re good enough. For the BR and DMR, we need to give better traits so that they don’t function like simple upgrades of each other.”
>
> This is an awful awful idea. Why does the pistol need to be useful throughout the match? What says it isn’t currently? And why shouldn’t team shooting be important.

“Why does the pistol need to be useful throughout the match?” Why exactly shouldn’t it be? You do realize that the pistol has the lowest ideal kill time out of all of the precision weapons available in the sandbox, and it’s even outclassed by all automatics too in kill time, besides the suppressor. Yet 343 thinks the pistol is the utility weapon of this game. The only reason why the pistol is even useful in this game is that everyone else spawns with the weapon in arena, and 343 didn’t spawn many other precision weapons to use within their maps either.

Team shooting would still be important in halo, but in this case, the strategy wouldn’t be a crutch to successfully push the enemy. It doesn’t take much skill to run with a teammate and shoot the same enemy that they’re shooting TBH, and I want to give players a choice on whether they should push alone or not. When you give players a strong utility weapon, you allow them to decide on what they WANT to do in certain situations, and not what they HAVE to do in EVERY situation.

5

The pistol should be a 3sk or a 4sk so the game will have a good weapon off of spawn. This means more skillful engagements, and that better players would be rewarded more for getting the perfect. The pistol right now is outclassed by most weapons in the game. Also, team shooting shouldn’t be so important because it takes away individual skill involved with shooting.

6

> 2533274923562209;3:
> Why make the pistol a three shot kill with an even faster ttk?
>
> As as for the Dmr: why decrease its rate of fire if it’s a long range weapon? That gives players more time to run when shot at, at least up the damage if your wanting to cut its fire rate to give my favorite weapon a chance. Br is fine as is IMO.
>
> AR: I agree with scrapping headshot multiplier, but something I’ll add is decrease its range a tad bit, it’s fine if people burst fire for the added accuracy, but it shouldn’t be as accurate if it’s spraying an entire clip
>
> SMG: fine as is
>
> no comment on the scatter shot nor hydra, I just don’t use them very often to understand them.

To make the pistol more viable in the weapon sandbox. If 343 wants to truly increase the skill gap in gunfights, they should remove bullet magnetism and maybe aim assist in the game so players can only rely on their aim to win.

I want to decrease its rate of fire to help balance for the weapon needing multiple shots to be descoped from and truly establish the weapon as a designated marksman rifle. I’m really not sure about buffing the damage though, but that’s up to 343.

With the smg having such a fast TTK in the game as a CQC weapon, I don’t understand why you would want the SMG to remain as is? I want to decrease its reliance and allow other weapons to still shine against it in CQC if they have the skill for it.

7

> 2533274970658419;5:
> The pistol should be a 3sk or a 4sk so the game will have a good weapon off of spawn. This means more skillful engagements, and that better players would be rewarded more for getting the perfect. The pistol right now is outclassed by most weapons in the game. Also, team shooting shouldn’t be so important because it takes away individual skill involved with shooting.

Pretty much why I want a utility weapon in halo again. You summed it up perfectly.

8

I stopped reading after the second paragraph. Making the pistol a 3 shot kill would take away the need for any other weapon.

9

> 2535422603742100;2:
> “First off, the pistol needs to change to a 3 shot kill and have its ideal kill time become 1 second (or less). We need an established utility weapon in this game, because there is no reason to keep the pistol when the DMR or BR are there to replace the pistol as an upgrade. This is also to increase individual empowerment so that players are not forced to rely on team shooting to make successful pushes, and so that their skill can potentially beat team shooting if they’re good enough. For the BR and DMR, we need to give better traits so that they don’t function like simple upgrades of each other.”
>
> This is an awful awful idea. Why does the pistol need to be useful throughout the match? What says it isn’t currently? And why shouldn’t team shooting be important.

First question: for basically the same reason we have equal starts. Having a viable, starting utility weapon guarantees that players are not restricted or inherently disadvantaged on spawn and can rely on their shooting skill to make aggressive plays. A weaker starting weapon, like the H5 Magnum, promotes passive play. Players cannot reliably win fights with shooting skill because of the rock-paper-scissors balance introduced by the OP automatics and the simple fact that on-map precision weapons like the BR/DMR are easier to use. You can be at a disadvantage in gun fight, not because you failed to control the map, but because you just spawned and your opponent happened to run to one of the many tier 2 spawns for a free upgrade. That is not promoting skill.

Second question: the only reason the Magnum is used as much as it is currently is that it’s a starting weapon. Every on-map precision weapon is better, the AR can easily contest it at close and medium range with minimal aiming skill required, and SMG/SR will MELT it. The Magnum is just BARELY viable, despite being the most skill-oriented weapon in the game. A lot of Halo 5 is built around mitigating the obvious weaknesses of the Magnum or getting better weapons. That pretty much makes it a failure as a utility weapon.

Third question: Because team shooting is the most simplistic kind of team work and significantly reduces the potential impact of individual skill, while simultaneously reducing the number of viable strategies. You pretty much ALWAYS need to be in a position to give and receive help, or you will be at a disadvantage. Being outnumbered in a gun fight will almost never result in success unless your opponents make a huge mistake. Team shooting is fine as a viable strategy, it’s a problem when it’s the ONLY viable strategy, which is the case in every Halo after CE.

Here’s a post that covers a lot of the finer details of this issue: Why Kill Times Matter

10

Actually the weapons already act as what weapon to use. The weapon balance of H5 is near perfect. OP you are kinda contradicting yourself IMO… you want weapons to operate differently and not create go to weapons… well if they operate differently you have just created go to weapons because then players will automatically know what weapons to go to given their situations.

11

How is it that all of a sudden the H5 pistol is now viewed as a weak weapon. If i remember correctly at release, everyone was complaining on how OP it was. Now all of a sudden it needs to be the best gun in the game? Unless you are a CE purist (which Ramir3z is) you would realize how ridiculous that sounds.

12

> 2533274970658419;5:
> The pistol should be a 3sk or a 4sk so the game will have a good weapon off of spawn. This means more skillful engagements, and that better players would be rewarded more for getting the perfect. The pistol right now is outclassed by most weapons in the game. Also, team shooting shouldn’t be so important because it takes away individual skill involved with shooting.

Disagree with team shooting. Halos a team game, I dislike seeing a Rambo control a game, could care less if he’s skilled or not because I personally find team chemistry more important and strategic. You can still push up by yourself if handled correctly in h5, example being the map of colosiuem, two guys push rocket ramp to red spawn, one guy pushes sniper ramp to red spawn, one guy sits back on blue middle CTF spot to shoot guys that get pushed into his sight. Maybe I’m not seeing what you mean, but team shooting shows you’re working together, and it eliminates the opposing team faster, it should always be the better “team” winning, not one guy carrying said team simply cuz he shoots better than the rest. Obviously even with team shooting in place you’ll still have an individual who’ll still outplay his team mates, but it still rewards you in the assist department.

13

> 2535431228880839;8:
> I stopped reading after the second paragraph. Making the pistol a 3 shot kill would take away the need for any other weapon.

No, it would create the need for other weapons to have actual utility and niche function, instead of being a bunch of redundant weapons that kill in ~1 second. Obviously, you have not played Halo CE. Bear in mind, that people advocating for a better Magnum also want it to be harder to use to compensate (i.e. more like the H1 Magnum). So, in essence, shorter perfect kill time, but the same or longer AVERAGE kill time.

14

> 2533274923562209;12:
> > 2533274970658419;5:
> > The pistol should be a 3sk or a 4sk so the game will have a good weapon off of spawn. This means more skillful engagements, and that better players would be rewarded more for getting the perfect. The pistol right now is outclassed by most weapons in the game. Also, team shooting shouldn’t be so important because it takes away individual skill involved with shooting.
>
>
> Disagree with team shooting. Halos a team game, I dislike seeing a Rambo control a game, could care less if he’s skilled or not because I personally find team chemistry more important and strategic. You can still push up by yourself if handled correctly in h5, example being the map of colosiuem, two guys push rocket ramp to red spawn, one guy pushes sniper ramp to red spawn, one guy sits back on blue middle CTF spot to shoot guys that get pushed into his sight. Maybe I’m not seeing what you mean, but team shooting shows you’re working together, and it eliminates the opposing team faster, it should always be the better “team” winning, not one guy carrying said team simply cuz he shoots better than the rest. Obviously even with team shooting in place you’ll still have an individual who’ll still outplay his team mates, but it still rewards you in the assist department.

You’re confusing team-shooting with teamwork here. The problem is not team-shot as a viable strategy. Two people shooting the same target would still be a faster kill with a more powerful Magnum. The problem arises when team shooting is the ONLY viable form of team work, which is pretty much what we have now as a result of the extremely long perfect kill times. It’s a very simplistic kind of strategy.

15

I COMPLETELY disagree that the Assault Rifle’s headshot bonus should be removed. If any one thing should stay, it’s that. This needs to be a reliable, mainline weapon. In no way is the Assault Rifle outright overpowered. Indeed, the Assault Rifle has never been more balanced and useful. It is the second most reliable fallback weapon you start with, the first being our terribly overuseful pistol that needs serious adjustments.

As for the SMG, its damage needs to be reduced. It absolutely shouldn’t do the exact same damage as the Assault Rifle sans headshot bonus- it absolutely just shouldn’t. The Mantis has this same problem and you heard me right, the mantis is literally less useful than the SMG. Kind of pathetic really.

I think the disabling-spartan-abilities idea with the Storm Rifle is naff too. Because it’s the Covenant’s main weapon. You’re gonna tell me that all six of my new moves cannot be done because I’m facing the most common weapon in the Covenant Arsenel second to the plasma pistol!? Yeahno, sir. Yeah freakin no. Uh-uh. That’s BS. There’s no skill involved in breaking your foe’s knees, which is basically what that serves to function as doing.

The DMR functions just fine as it is, but the BR should not be a hard counter to it. That’s beyond silly.

Honestly I think the Hydra is in a really good spot right now. I want to pick it up because I believe it to be an honest-to-god effective weapon, where it just wasn’t before.

But the pistol… You got a lot of nerve saying it should be as stupidly OP as CE’s pistol. If anything the pistol is in need of some truly serious nerfing and buffing at the same time. Increase spread, it shouldn’t be as effective as a DMR at range- keep the headshot damage and let it fire much faster than it currently does, but perhaps decrease the damage to the point it’s a 6SK instead of a 5SK. Why?

Handguns are little more than CQC and personal defense weapons. Your sidearm should be a good, reliable fallback and perhaps even preferable indoors, to your rifle. But it shouldn’t be cross-mapping. The barrel length and caliber it fires at with such incredible accuracy just makes no damn sense. The guys who make SPV3 know exactly what to do with this franchise’s most famous weapon. I recommend you look up their pistol ViDoc.

But y’know what? Smart scope is just fine the way it is. It’s pretty much the same as it’s always been, but just, y’know. Flashier, cooler looking. That’s it really. Does every single weapon need ADS? Hell no. The Assault Rifle absolutely should have it, but the SMG perhaps, should not have it. Pistol should have it too- people like pistol scoping in Halo, it’s what we do.

But you know what?

The BR can go rot in a hole and die. It’s far too easy to use, every single shot is a potential headshot, and getting three player kills in one burst is the biggest BS in gaming right now. No, seriously, it’s BS. I don’t care if, “They shouldn’t have bunched up.”- a player shouldn’t be able to kill THREE OTHERS IN LESS THAN A SECOND.

BR should have a headshot multiplier instead. Problem is that still makes it patently more useful than the Assault Rifle, which is again, why I do not enjoy its existence as a weapon. But there is one way to fix it.

Eliminate the BR and DMR alike, and revert it to its Halo 2 Beta standpoint. Remove the burst fire’s ability to headshot kill but give it a multiplier like the AR instead, but allow it a headshot kill when scoped and firing in semi-automatic. You then get a slightly-faster-than-DMR firing weapon that’s slower than a BR, but faster than a DMR. And -Yoink!-, decrease the cyclic rate of fire. Spread those three rounds out a bit more in both bloom and time between shots.

I do not suggest an outright BR nerf destruction but rather, something that gives the weapon honest to god utility. Hell, give the BR’s signature three round burst an overhaul, and make it a two round burst- which has every reason to be accurate and is kind of the hot new thing in guns today.

Maybe even give the AR a three round burst when scoped.

That way the BR/DMR has an emphasis on marksmanship, where the AR has an emphasis on support and suppression.

16

“Team shooting is not important”

Do you even understand how HCS works? Or for that matter, any game that features a shield and replenishing health system (games with long TTK)

17

My taking in this post us they want the br and pistol as the go to weapons and all other weapons pointless again but saying they don’t want go to weapons :slight_smile:

18

> 2533274840624875;11:
> How is it that all of a sudden the H5 pistol is now viewed as a weak weapon. If i remember correctly at release, everyone was complaining on how OP it was. Now all of a sudden it needs to be the best gun in the game? Unless you are a CE purist (which Ramir3z is) you would realize how ridiculous that sounds.

I think people were just ignorant of how much stronger the other precision weapons actually were compared to the pistol. The pistol is only barely viable, but saying that the pistol would become the best gun in the game period from this buff is a little silly. Read my suggestions for the other precision weapons, and see if you agree with them currently.

19

> 2533274848599184;16:
> “Team shooting is not important”
>
> Do you even understand how HCS works? Or for that matter, any game that features a shield and replenishing health system (games with long TTK)

Where did you get this quote from exactly? Because I cannot recall saying that, especially when team shooting is the only strong strategy in halo 5 unfortunately.

20

> 2533274968707582;6:
> > 2533274923562209;3:
> > Why make the pistol a three shot kill with an even faster ttk?
> >
> > As as for the Dmr: why decrease its rate of fire if it’s a long range weapon? That gives players more time to run when shot at, at least up the damage if your wanting to cut its fire rate to give my favorite weapon a chance. Br is fine as is IMO.
> >
> > AR: I agree with scrapping headshot multiplier, but something I’ll add is decrease its range a tad bit, it’s fine if people burst fire for the added accuracy, but it shouldn’t be as accurate if it’s spraying an entire clip
> >
> > SMG: fine as is
> >
> > no comment on the scatter shot nor hydra, I just don’t use them very often to understand them.
>
>
> To make the pistol more viable in the weapon sandbox. If 343 wants to truly increase the skill gap in gunfights, they should remove bullet magnetism and maybe aim assist in the game so players can only rely on their aim to win.
>
> I want to decrease its rate of fire to help balance for the weapon needing multiple shots to be descoped from and truly establish the weapon as a designated marksman rifle. I’m really not sure about buffing the damage though, but that’s up to 343.
>
> With the smg having such a fast TTK in the game as a CQC weapon, I don’t understand why you would want the SMG to remain as is? I want to decrease its reliance and allow other weapons to still shine against it in CQC if they have the skill for it.

To first paragraph, I’m cool with less aim assist/magnetism, however I don’t think the general consensus would agree. Aim assist/magnetism is added because it’s harder to aim on console, pc has it much better with mouse/keyboard. The point of the assists is to give the average joe a chance, without him struggling because it then becomes hard to play vs others.

Second paragrapgh: ok, I see your point

third: the thing is storm rifle and even the AR can beat the SMG in CQC, if you really strafe and dodge you’ll see how accurate an SMG really is, you’ll still take a pounding, but breakout has shown me the SMG is fine as is, but that’s just me. It’s not great at medium range, has no long range (obviously) capabilities, and burns through a clip pretty fast on just one guy if you really strafe and dodge. The SMG is only accurate if crouched (at the cost of the SMG users mobility), and if zoomed in.