Halo Wars Recollection Discussion on Balance

Hello Halo Wars followers and community, I am xLEGITxREAPERx (Yeah my name is cringeworthy. I do not like my name either. Made it when I was like 12…fast forward like 9 years lewl) and I have been reading comments and have made just a few short posts on discussions. I am going to finally start a conversation of my own and hopefully contribute to the Halo Wars community. So like most of you, I am very excited for Halo Wars 2. Halo Wars has always and will always be one of my favorite video games. This game intrigued me because of its ingenious design. Ensemble Studios was up against a losing fight in an up hill battle, but even with all the difficulties and constraints, they still were able to make a fun and unique game that in my opinion rivals other RTS games. Halo Wars is usually seen as a more casual game in the RTS genre which that is completely true, but in my opinion, what makes Halo Wars unique is the fact that Ensemble Studios was still able to make a very competitive RTS game for the Xbox 360. Halo Wars did not need to focus on micro gameplay to make a satisfying RTS game (but higher skilled players know that micro will make a difference in skirmishes). The game focused on strategy and built itself around that while having micro management as the next obstacle to tackle on its priority list. I also think that what also made Halo Wars distinctive was the base building system. Many people may disagree with me, but building wherever you want does not automatically mean that the concept is better. Bigger is not always better. The game might be simpler, but it still can be competitive and fun while having its own distinct gameplay that is unlike any other RTS games which is just as important. In League of Legends, that game does not require a lot of APM (Actions Per Minute) compared to Starcraft 2 and is still a very competitive game.

Finally I can get to the discussion at hand. I am going to start the discussion on the balance issues that plagued the game, but for what its worth, the game was still outstanding for having so many issues which says quite a bit about the game. Also to gauge my perspective on the game, I obtained general on two accounts and played around 2000 matches (50% standard 1v1s, 35% standard 2v2s, 15% every other gamemode). I would like to consider myself competitive at the game (aka. try hard). I am not trying to brag in any way, and honestly, I wouldn’t even consider myself that great at the game. I am just trying to explain my thoughts on the game.

With all my experience with Halo Wars, I did enjoy standard 1v1s, but I felt like Ensemble Studios did not spend enough time on 1v1s as much as it deserved. Unfortunately, the time period when this game was released was when game updates/patches were not as common, so the game hardly received any patches that I can recall. When I think of competitive RTS games, the main selling point and foundation of that game has to be the standard 1v1 gamemode. In this next installment of Halo Wars, I want to task Creative Assembly to build this game up from standard 1v1s and then move forward and expand the game. Personally, I do not really care about new factions, space battles, or customization (no offense to anyone). What I want is a competitive experience for the multiplayer that is balanced and has depth and a healthy skill gap {knowledge and mechanics (Avoid point and click/press abilities. Try to aim for skillshots or timing abilities like blinks/flashes and shields for skill)}. I strongly believe that if they do 1v1s the right way, then every other gamemode will fall in place and be good. The multiplayer deserves a lot of attention because it is the very reason why the game lasted this long.

I will end off with asking a question. If you would like to reply that would be great. I will read all responses and try to respond to them all.
If you could only choose one aspect of the multiplayer, what is the biggest flaw in Halo Wars multiplayer and why.
It could be the pathfinding, base building, balance between units, or the overall flow of the match (Early Game, Mid Game, and Late Game).
Mine is the statistics of the game. I want to know all the health, damage, shield, cooldown, multiplier, and experience values of the game, so I can study it even more and bring my game to the next level.

Pathfinding was a tremendous issue and even with the update to it (I only recall them ever mentioning one) it was still godawful. Pathfinding needs to be fluid. Not like the bumble–Yoink- that was in Halo Wars.

I also don’t care for space battles or customization, although a new faction would be nice. Building upon the style of gameplay that Ensemble set is what will make Halo Wars 2 great.

Hey I The Rudy I, thanks for sharing. I also see you a lot in the forums and the posts you send are interesting and very informative. Glad to know there are dedicated users who keep track of all the news.

I completely agree with your statement. The pathfinding was horrendous and tedious. It was very unreliable which took away from the competitiveness of the game sadly. It was very unpredictable which led to very awkward situations in which your strategy you planned for a map was completely ruined. There would be one match were you would send a single marine to take a supply hook, and the marine squad would get there at the 3:00 mark of the match. Then there would be another match with the same exact map and side of map, but the marine squad would not get there till the 3:10 mark of the match. Basically, it was heavily inconsistent which took away from it being an even better game.

Also, I am all for new factions and having this game jam packed full of amazing content, but for me though, I would choose quality over quantity. I am not saying have the exact same units, buildings, leader, and leader powers as the original game. They could change all of those up completely. I would like to have a really well made UNSC and Covenant done properly and then move on to more content.

Glad to hear you also enjoyed the style of gameplay Halo Wars offered. That was probably one thing I wanted to express the most in my first comment. If they can still stick to the original formula in some way, I believe this game has the potential to be outstanding even on Xbox One (Which is what I am going to buy for more than likely even though I have a PC gaming rig. I feel like the majority of the community is going to be on Xbox One, and I would like to stay were all the competition is at. Might even get it for the PC eventually.). Lastly, I hope nobody gets a hate vibe from this discussion. Just wanted to discuss issues that were in Halo Wars, and if Creative Assemble does not make these same mistakes, then we will have a good game in the near future.

Sticking with a the original formula is an absolute must. And I expect that CA with do just that, while evolving it appropriately. That style of gameplay is what made Halo Wars successful so there’s no need to throw it out in favor of a completely new system.

And no worries. Definitely no hate vibes here.

I completely agree with everything you said. Good to know there are some people on this forum that actually understand the game :slight_smile:

My biggest problem with Halo Wars is the UNSC’s ability to train Warthogs out of the main base. They can train scouting units out of their main base while the Covenant have to make a factory? And said scouting unit is one of the most competitively viable units in the game? How does that make sense? For all of the balance issues in Halo Wars, this is the biggest one. If it had gotten changed, the game would have been much more balanced. Because the UNSC can get 5 or 6 hogs out in 2-3 minutes, I’m either trapped at my base having to defend it with my leader or wasting my money on turrets (which puts me behind and ultimately loses me the game).

Still a great game though. And once again, I’m glad to see an experienced player on here instead of those guys that make their daily “What I want in Halo Wars 2” thread whilst being uneducated on the high level play of the game and they most likely hasn’t touched the game since 2011.

> 2535452784065270;5:
> I completely agree with everything you said. Good to know there are some people on this forum that actually understand the game :slight_smile:
>
> My biggest problem with Halo Wars is the UNSC’s ability to train Warthogs out of the main base. They can train scouting units out of their main base while the Covenant have to make a factory? And said scouting unit is one of the most competitively viable units in the game? How does that make sense? For all of the balance issues in Halo Wars, this is the biggest one. If it had gotten changed, the game would have been much more balanced. Because the UNSC can get 5 or 6 hogs out in 2-3 minutes, I’m either trapped at my base having to defend it with my leader or wasting my money on turrets (which puts me behind and ultimately loses me the game).
>
> Still a great game though. And once again, I’m glad to see an experienced player on here instead of those guys that make their daily “What I want in Halo Wars 2” thread whilst being uneducated on the high level play of the game and they most likely hasn’t touched the game since 2011.

I always wondered why covenant had to build a factory for their scouts. They should’ve switched the scouts and scarab, so you needed a factory for scarab. Also I heavily agree with your last paragraph

For me I would like the balance to be more even through out early to late game, with the early game the covenant being able to rush and do heavy damage if the unsc didn’t spam hogs, and for late game the unsc to have more counters with the covenant getting more than just a scarab as a super unit.

YearlongAlarm96:
The UNSC warthogs are most definitely overpowered to some regard. I felt like if they could have nerfed the damage against structures with the warthogs then the warthogs would become more balanced because it would allow for fewer options (you have to build turrets as the Covenant because your army is not near your base right as the UNSC players’s first reactor comes up). The warthogs have too much damage, mobility, and options early in the game which is partly why they are so viable in almost any situation. Issues start to appear when a unit can be a 1-stop solution to all your problems.

smasher555:
You made a very good point. The design of the warthogs is not completely the reason they are so viable. The “Meta” of the game influences and forces players to buy warthogs because it is one of the few optimal choices in the early game. If I am not mistaken (as far as standard 1v1s go), buying warthogs to harass, zone, and cripple the enemy player is one of the safest options for the UNSC that does not cripple your economy or your build (you can literally go into anything). Going for any other rush or build will ruin your economy (basically an all-in) and can be easily countered (you are basically compromising yourself because you can not do much to early scouting and are most likely giving up the map). I believe that because of the poor balance of the early game, warthogs became too good to pass up on most 1v1 maps.

Specifically against the Covenant, the Covenant have the potential to use a lot of early game pressure to control the map (produce and upgrade more than you) and cripple your economy. This is also another reason as to why building warthogs are a very good and efficient choice.

Oddly enough, I never thought the late game of Halo Wars was one of its shining moments. I always preferred the mid game the most.

nickcolavita:
To be honest, I always thought they should have just got rid of the scouting vehicles for the Covenant. They are literally useless and you rarely, if ever, see them. Ghost and Locusts are very situational. I have seen MarcoStyle (youtuber who use to play Halo Wars and was considered very good from most of the community) use a strategy with ghosts (against a Prophet) to win a match, and he also used one locust to pressure his opponent into fighting him which led him to winning the match. For the most part, the leader for the Covenant acts as a scout. Also having the scarab building in the factory would be even more risky (the building time of the scarab) to build considering how much easier it is to destroy a factory compared to a base. This was probably a balance problem for Ensemble Studios, so they just decided to build the scarab in the base.

Guys keep sharing your thoughts. All of you have mentioned really good statements of the game. I like to think that someone might be listening, and we might be able to actually have some sort of impact on this game. Hopefully Creative Assembly will fix close to all the issues Halo Wars had so we can have an amazing game!

> 2533274799223896;8:
> YearlongAlarm96:
> The UNSC warthogs are most definitely overpowered to some regard. I felt like if they could have nerfed the damage against structures with the warthogs then the warthogs would become more balanced because it would allow for fewer options (you have to build turrets as the Covenant because your army is not near your base right as the UNSC players’s first reactor comes up). The warthogs have too much damage, mobility, and options early in the game which is partly why they are so viable in almost any situation. Issues start to appear when a unit can be a 1-stop solution to all your problems.
>
> smasher555:
> You made a very good point. The design of the warthogs is not completely the reason they are so viable. The “Meta” of the game influences and forces players to buy warthogs because it is one of the few optimal choices in the early game. If I am not mistaken (as far as standard 1v1s go), buying warthogs to harass, zone, and cripple the enemy player is one of the safest options for the UNSC that does not cripple your economy or your build (you can literally go into anything). Going for any other rush or build will ruin your economy (basically an all-in) and can be easily countered (you are basically compromising yourself because you can not do much to early scouting and are most likely giving up the map). I believe that because of the poor balance of the early game, warthogs became too good to pass up on most 1v1 maps.
>
> Specifically against the Covenant, the Covenant have the potential to use a lot of early game pressure to control the map (produce and upgrade more than you) and cripple your economy. This is also another reason as to why building warthogs are a very good and efficient choice.
>
> Oddly enough, I never thought the late game of Halo Wars was one of its shining moments. I always preferred the mid game the most.
>
> nickcolavita:
> To be honest, I always thought they should have just got rid of the scouting vehicles for the Covenant. They are literally useless and you rarely, if ever, see them. Ghost and Locusts are very situational. I have seen MarcoStyle (youtuber who use to play Halo Wars and was considered very good from most of the community) use a strategy with ghosts (against a Prophet) to win a match, and he also used one locust to pressure his opponent into fighting him which led him to winning the match. For the most part, the leader for the Covenant acts as a scout. Also having the scarab building in the factory would be even more risky (the building time of the scarab) to build considering how much easier it is to destroy a factory compared to a base. This was probably a balance problem for Ensemble Studios, so they just decided to build the scarab in the base.
>
> Guys keep sharing your thoughts. All of you have mentioned really good statements of the game. I like to think that someone might be listening, and we might be able to actually have some sort of impact on this game. Hopefully Creative Assembly will fix close to all the issues Halo Wars had so we can have an amazing game!

Ah yes, Marco. I wish he’d come back :frowning:
I learned everything from him.

Definitely Balancing the unit strengths and fixing pathing and responsiveness are the keys to making a prosperous matchmaking experience in HW2. I just made a giant post in the “What HW2 needs to be successful” thread and I will post the link below if you would like to read it.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/search?page=1&scope=Forums&author=DarkHorse3000

I get worried when I see some of the comments by people who barely played the game so it’s nice to see you guys who clearly respect the game and aren’t calling for things like space battles and first person. @YearlongAlarm96 I remember playing against MarcoStyleNL many times, he’s quite good and I can’t say my record is positive haha.