Halo Wars 2 will suck.... I told you

My original post was simplifying the concept between two different gaming companies not being able to relate and they have different aspects on how to create a game. All I said was that the game wasn’t going to be the same as the first one then I got attacked by trolls telling me to wait for the beta. Well the beta is here and I was right it is the worst. The game doesn’t look anything similar to the last one and the reactor looks like a busted antenna and the units don’t need their own build like a factory or barracks the game sucks and they aren’t going to fix it.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/38bd6e2ebbb14e5b9b359bb029588800/topics/halo-wars-2-will-suck/fa693b2e-3cb6-4330-8f1c-9195bf9706b4/posts?page=1

Original post. O knew it before it came out and they hating cause they can’t handle the truth.

I disagree. It plays like a Halo Wars sequel. The first gametype during the beta was a bit odd, but deathmatch was pretty fun to play.

> 2717573882290912;3:
> I disagree. It plays like a Halo Wars sequel. The first gametype during the beta was a bit odd, but deathmatch was pretty fun to play.

Try actually reading. He mentioned nothing of the gameplay.

Here’s my take somewhat reflecting the OP.

When I heard that Creative Assembly was in charge of this project, I was pumped. If Ensemble Studios, makers of the Age series, could do this well on their very first console endeavor, then surely CA, with more modern hardware, an even longer production run and plenty of experience, and fresh off the heels of Total Warhammer’s success, would live up to the expectation. Having played the Beta this week, I see that this was woefully wrong. I’m starting to think they were the wrong people to give this to, and you might say “But they’ve been developing RTS for 15+ years!” which is part of the problem. They’ve made their Total War series and when entrusted with HW2, they were lost. ES and CA both stepped outside their comfort zone but the former succeeded while the latter failed. CA has always made these very large scale tactically-based RTS, with more emphasis on formations and getting the right types of units in the right places and very little micro involved and I think they simply didn’t really get it right when veering away from this formula. First off, don’t come trotting in here with your “it’s Beta” weaksauce arguments because the technical aspects I won’t even discuss. I know it’s a beta and bugs and performance issues are expected. I’m looking past that to the core tenets in video games. Things like aesthetics and environment, controls, gameplay, sound and music and the game is lacking in so many ways in these areas. I’m noticing a few things that were ripped from other games, the biggest being Dawn of War. Domination? It’s the same thing as the standard mode of DoW2. An uneven number of points to control, zero focus on attacking a base directly.


Right at the top you’ll notice an almost identical ticket counter to what we have in HW2, just with 3 instead of 5 points. Company of Heroes (both are made by Relic, keep in mind) has the same thing. Is this a bad thing? Probably not. More game modes isn’t a bad thing, but it does come off as uninspired, coupled with the fact that this game is meant to be quicker paced than HW1. Keepaway and Tug of War felt far more original than “Territories for RTS”. DoW2 and CoH both keep the base creating to a minimum and focuse more on unit micro. Not much macro exists. HW on the other hand does have important macro and build order decisions. (4-pad boom to tanks? pad reactor pad? Fast expo into mass hogs? things of that nature) HW2 will as well, but I don’t feel like it really belongs here, especially with the 1-plot mini bases that seem to offer next to no tactical gameplay advantage.
People these days think that the little things don’t matter, but its exactly the opposite. It’s polish and nice final creative touches that make all the difference. This isn’t such a big thing in some cases, like how infantry units have funny little banter, but it makes the game more alive and complete. That’s easy to inject later on in the game, and while some don’t even notice, I do. There’s other things that do make a much bigger difference though that involve behind the scenes thinking that most casual players completely take for granted. Consider the new units introduced in HW1 never part of Halo’s universe before this game. If I asked you to list them you’d immediately mention things like the Cobra, Vampire, Locust, Vulture. Well how about the Darter? Some of you probably know what a Pod is by now since we’re comparing the two games. But in case you don’t, the darter is the little ship that you see always drop off supplies at pads and the pod is the giant vtol vehicle that brings Firebases to the battle in two pieces. You can’t control either of them but they’re new additions to Halo working in the background to make the game more alive. More real. The Shortsword is also noteworthy, since we already had Longswords, but ES goes the extra mile to bring us something that makes logistical sense in-universe. A military COULD send in space-capable bombers to drop off D-bombs, Cryo bombs, etc, but why do that when a more efficient and less costly design meant to work in-atmosphere can do just fine. What do we get in HW2? More… pelicans… Don’t get me wrong, the pelican is iconic in Halo, but it’s not something creative to add to the feel of the game. It gets overused. Pelicans drop off base parts and turrets. They do the strafing run for Cutter. We have other vehicles, or you could create something new BESIDES new playable units. Let’s think outside the box for a bit CA.
While we’re on the subject of the base, this is another design I have a problem with. HW1 had a very large sense of scale. Even zoomed out to the max, a fortress or citadel takes up your whole screen. It’s expansive, it’s sturdy it’s an epic feeling of being in charge of a base like that. Zoom in as close as you can and, at least for a firebase/station/fortress, you see detail and polish plus you can get an idea of just how big it is with the doors and ramps and hatches etc. And then there’s the other part to it. Sadly Covies get a little shafted here since everything is teleported in, but with UNSC, there’s a whole underbelly to bases that makes it even bigger. So big, that’s where they take the pre-fabricated buildings your pad use and theyre all set to go as they get lifted up for use. In the sequel? Rinky-dink sheds, haphazardly thrown together. It feels like a shack instead of a sprawling base. The Banished design looks a little more like what Brutes might use who don’t care about it looking pretty, going by choppers, prowlers and their various weapons as examples, so I can’t fault them there but the size argument still applies. I’ll end this here for now, but suffice to say, I’m not looking forward to HW2 unless we get some MAJOR changes to the look and feel of the game on top of the graphical issues, the controls, the pacing (which is meh, maybe just a tiny bit slower) and so on. At this point I’m just waiting for that remaster which HOPEFULLY fixes so many bugs that were left behind by ES before they could resolve them so we can keep on playing HW1 just like how some people weren’t happy with Reach and stuck with 3 or weren’t happy with 4 and stuck with Reach.

> 2535472813333744;1:
> My original post was simplifying the concept between two different gaming companies not being able to relate and they have different aspects on how to create a game. All I said was that the game wasn’t going to be the same as the first one then I got attacked by trolls telling me to wait for the beta. Well the beta is here and I was right it is the worst. The game doesn’t look anything similar to the last one and the reactor looks like a busted antenna and the units don’t need their own build like a factory or barracks the game sucks and they aren’t going to fix it.

I didn’t play the beta,but based on what I watched it looks like they took a simple control scheme from halo wars 1 and just threw it away in the trash and started from scratch for no reason,if it ain’t broke don’t fix it

If you’re going to objectively analyze a game, doing it based on how a building looks is… Well, not objective. To be objective, you have to look at all aspects of the game. In my mind (and many others minds) being objective means being correct. Also, using proper grammar is favorable. I don’t know what you mean by “the units don’t need their own build like a factory or barracks”, because I don’t know how to read broken English. [Actually, did you mean “building”? Because if you did, I might understand what you’re trying to say.] I’m not asking for perfection. Just something I can read. And when you say “I got attacked by trolls telling me to wait for the beta”… That’s not objective at all. To call someone a troll because they have a different opinion makes you the troll, not them. And don’t call me a troll. You can look through my posts and see that I’m always objective and reasonable. Whether you would like to admit it or not, I’m realizing you have quite the bias against Halo Wars 2 and CA as I read through your original post.

But anyway. l The Rudy l took the words right out of my mouth when he said:

> You are terrible at arguing. You jump from point to point that bear no relation to each other. You are an idiot.

I don’t know, I’m sure the game will have a substantial amount of flaws but will still be a solid entry in the series despite not being as good as the original. I just want to stay optimistic and judge the final product even though I’m not entirely pleased with certain gameplay elements at the time being ( the originality of the designs doesn’t bother me since every design from classic halo is original in my opinion).

have fun mates

> 2533274912849176;7:
> I don’t know, I’m sure the game will have a substantial amount of flaws but will still be a solid entry in the series despite not being as good as the original. I just want to stay optimistic and judge the final product even though I’m not entirely pleased with certain gameplay elements at the time being ( the originality of the designs doesn’t bother me since every design from classic halo is original in my opinion).
>
> have fun mates

I feel like based on what I saw,they pooped on halo wars simplicity in favor of doing there own thing

> 2533274830166194;8:
> > 2533274912849176;7:
> > I don’t know, I’m sure the game will have a substantial amount of flaws but will still be a solid entry in the series despite not being as good as the original. I just want to stay optimistic and judge the final product even though I’m not entirely pleased with certain gameplay elements at the time being ( the originality of the designs doesn’t bother me since every design from classic halo is original in my opinion).
> >
> > have fun mates
>
>
> I feel like based on what I saw,they pooped on halo wars simplicity in favor of doing there own thing

They are trying to improve upon a proven control style. Luckily we get to test it before release.

Additionally, since they are most likely being forced [read: not their choice] to develop it for PC and not just Xbone, controls need to allow for some more complexity. Can’t really fault them for that.

While definitely rough, the newer controls are not terrible, and in all likely-hood they will be streamlined and re-mapped to a more familiar style upon release based on feedback.

Based on them providing us with multiple betas and pushing the release date back, I trust that they want to get this one right with the fans as well as create a game that they are proud of.

At Helios68…

That’s fair criticism. But what you’re saying hinges a lot on graphics and cosmetics. And the assumption that casual players take thoughtful graphics for granted is one that could be accurate, but still an assumption in the end. From another point of view, you could argue that casual players cherish the looks of a game more than competitive players because they’re not as focused on winning; They’re more focused on having fun with the game. And if you ask me, the absence of micro in the Beta was due to how laggy and clunky everything was. It might have just been me, but It seemed like I had to mash the buttons on my controller just to get it to work. That will undoubtedly be rectified. 343 and CA have shown that they want to give the players what they want. Changes have already been announced. The players wanted a higher population, 343 obliged. There were complaints about the controls, and it has been promised that it will be looked into. They even addressed issues that seem inconsequential such as your concerns regarding bases and their appearance, saying “we’re working to change the appearance of individual structures within the base to better reflect their current state.”

Most of the changes they announced were gameplay-centric. Something that pleases me, as I care much more about the core mechanics of the game than the “polish and nice final creative touches.” Notice this is coming from a player that considers himself a high-level player. Be it far from me to start calling myself a casual. Also, I don’t see the logic in throwing out the “It’s a Beta” argument then talking about how the game feels unpolished. Whether you like it or not, the point still stands. Wait until the game’s release to issue a final judgement. Yes, if the game was released today, It would garner criticism from around the globe. But it’s not out yet. It won’t be for awhile. But anyway, I hope you see where I’m coming from. I came into the Beta with an open mind and came away with little to no traces of disappointment. Yes, things have changed. But I can get over it. I hope you can as well and enjoy the game when it comes out.

EDIT: Also, the devs have said that making the game’s art more embellished is a certain priority amongst other things like UI improvements. This came from the art director himself. Source.

I think Halo Wars 2 will not suck. I strongly believe that it’s campaign will for sure beat Halo 5 Guardians campagin. And with the possibility of Flood returning it will be amazing. It will probably be better than Spartan Assualt and Spartan Strike. The marketing for Halo Wars 2 is going great “Know Your Enemy” reminds me of the “Finish the Fight” marketing, I am so hyped. And I’m glad that they will bring it to the PC even better 343i is getting better.

First you should play it - but yes, the Beta sucks in many ways…

> 2535448706946788;11:
> I think Halo Wars 2 will not suck. I strongly believe that it’s campaign will for sure beat Halo 5 Guardians campagin. And with the possibility of Flood returning it will be amazing. It will probably be better than Spartan Assualt and Spartan Strike. The marketing for Halo Wars 2 is going great “Know Your Enemy” reminds me of the “Finish the Fight” marketing, I am so hyped. And I’m glad that they will bring it to the PC even better 343i is getting better.

Being better than the halo 5 campaign is not a metric for success. Just saying.

I am worried about what we have seen of the brutes so far. CA design team seems to have given them the Ork treatment. Warboss mek klaw decimus is just stupid and doesn’t belong in halo.

> 2533274896616265;13:
> > 2535448706946788;11:
> > I think Halo Wars 2 will not suck. I strongly believe that it’s campaign will for sure beat Halo 5 Guardians campagin. And with the possibility of Flood returning it will be amazing. It will probably be better than Spartan Assualt and Spartan Strike. The marketing for Halo Wars 2 is going great “Know Your Enemy” reminds me of the “Finish the Fight” marketing, I am so hyped. And I’m glad that they will bring it to the PC even better 343i is getting better.
>
>
> Being better than the halo 5 campaign is not a metric for success. Just saying.
>
> I am worried about what we have seen of the brutes so far. CA design team seems to have given them the Ork treatment. Warboss mek klaw decimus is just stupid and doesn’t belong in halo.

Well brutes are kinda stupid. Aside from Atriox and kinda Tarturus and his uncle, none have been especially smart… Its kinda their thing.

the brute can get smart drugs enhancement so they can be smarter an more brutal like Atriox, it might be one of the Created lures for them to join the causes… lol or it be some ONI related experiment to wipe out the remaining convent like the Elite…

> 2533274913913392;14:
> > 2533274896616265;13:
> > > 2535448706946788;11:
> > > I think Halo Wars 2 will not suck. I strongly believe that it’s campaign will for sure beat Halo 5 Guardians campagin. And with the possibility of Flood returning it will be amazing. It will probably be better than Spartan Assualt and Spartan Strike. The marketing for Halo Wars 2 is going great “Know Your Enemy” reminds me of the “Finish the Fight” marketing, I am so hyped. And I’m glad that they will bring it to the PC even better 343i is getting better.
> >
> >
> > Being better than the halo 5 campaign is not a metric for success. Just saying.
> >
> > I am worried about what we have seen of the brutes so far. CA design team seems to have given them the Ork treatment. Warboss mek klaw decimus is just stupid and doesn’t belong in halo.
>
>
> Well brutes are kinda stupid. Aside from Atriox and kinda Tarturus and his uncle, none have been especially smart… Its kinda their thing.

Brutes not generally being smart is one thing, but giving Decimus a blatant (and goofy) warhammer Ork power armor is crossing the line. As much as Brutes are not as directly intelligent as the humans or elites they do have combat tactics from the covenant. Halo 3/Odst brutes were organized, well equipped and acted as a relatively disciplined fighting force. With Atriox being touted as the ‘super smart brute’ I would expect his ability to organize his followers in a similar if not more disciplined manner. To simply give brutes tons of gravity hammers and strap rockets to their backs is a sad and backwards direction to take brute combat tactics (that also directly rips off Ork battle tactics). Even the scavenged wraiths with spikey bitz is a blatant rip off of Warhammer 40k Orks (they scavenge vehicles and strap spikes and heavy armor onto them).

Brutes could be so much more than orks.

Just look at this bullsh*t and tell me that it wouldn’t fit right in to a warhammer 40k game. It is literally a hairy Ork warboss.

The beta was alright, I didn’t go crazy over it. I was a huge Halo Wars fan, played that game to death. I’ll still wait to see how the final game is, but I wasn’t really enjoying the “feel”.

I stopped reading when you the basis of your argument relied on the beta. Not trolling here. When have you ever known a beta to already have everything you wanted? Furthermore, why would you be surprised when it didn’t? I have no opinion on this. I didn’t play the beta. I haven’t even so much as viewed a trailer (It’s on my list of things to do along with insulate my attic and plumbing before winter). I get that we all have opinions and they will vary I just don’t think we have enough info yet to definitively decide whether a game sucks or not. However, I have seen the list of things they are working on based on feedback from the beta and it sounds like they are making strides to perfect it.

I’ve played Halo Wars. RTS games hold a special place in my heart so I am hopeful (expecting?) this will be a great sequel. Only the final product will tell. Although, I will say I haven’t been terribly disappointed by any RTS in the past.

I stopped reading when you the basis of your argument relied on the beta. Not trolling here. When have you ever known a beta to already have everything you wanted? Furthermore, why would you be surprised when it didn’t? I have no opinion on this. I didn’t play the beta. I haven’t even so much as viewed a trailer (It’s on my list of things to do along with insulate my attic and plumbing before winter). I get that we all have opinions and they will vary I just don’t think we have enough info yet to definitively decide whether a game sucks or not. However, I have seen the list of things they are working on based on feedback from the beta and it sounds like they are making strides to perfect it.

I’ve played Halo Wars. RTS games hold a special place in my heart so I am hopeful (expecting?) this will be a great sequel. Only the final product will tell. Although, I will say I haven’t been terribly disappointed by any RTS in the past.

I mean, I haven’t played the beta so I can’t offer my views on the game gameplay wise (I hear they’re having another beta sometime soon, it’s just a rumor, don’t quote me on it), but I’ve seen a lot of the trailers and a couple gameplay vids and heard some feedback. My takeaway from it is that so far, the game is at an OK standpoint. It’s fresh out of its first beta, so naturally there’s going to be a lot of things people don’t like. That’s fine, it’s a beta, we still have time to change it until final release. And so far, from what we’ve gotten, it seems that for the most part, our feedback was taken into account and the game was changed accordingly. Good move. Now we need to see how the game functions with the changes that have been made, and if that second beta actually gets made, then we’ll see how it holds there.

In my opinion, I’m excited for the game. Halo Wars was a game that not that many people looked to as a legitimate game, and they missed out on a cool game that offered some good times. Halo Wars 2 seems to continue that legacy, particularly in the sense of it’s story (which I’m legit hyped for), and I really wanna see how they pull this off.