Halo veterans thoughts on the community.

I have played halo since CE and I’ve seen the halo fanbase rise and fall. I’m so ashamed to be a halo fan now because everyone here tears each other to pieces over what they want to be halo. The community is falling apart thanks to non fans continuously harassing us and bashing our favorite games and the fans of the series as well. Will we ever be able to bring the community back? And will we be able to make halo shine again?

We need a game that everyone can get behind first, it’s not impossible as some think, it happened 3 times in a row

I am 38 and and the COD trend that is killing this series is the recent obsession with KD. Never heard this obsession until after COD4. I mainly played Halo BTB all these years. Even back playing H2 and H3 online I never ever heard anyone even talk about KD. I am pretty sure kids are getting beat up in school over this or something because this obsession is just ridiculous especially in objective based games. I have been a warthog driver since H2 and have never cared about KD. I have driven team mates to 40+ kills in many games and I have thousands of assists. I am also always trying to capture objectives and help team mates capture objectives. I cant even imagine the games we would have lost if I refused to capture the objective or didn’t drive the warthog because I obsessed with KD. I always usually have 2-3 x the amount of assists of anyone I know. That is just what happens when you are a Warthog driver. My main focus is also always to have FUN.

I mentioned a BTB game I played recently where the enemy team mate went 35 and 5 then complained to his team because they sucked. Yet he would not leave the spawn base to capture other objectives. He is 100% the reason they lost. If he had just went out and helped capture at least 1 other base, instead of worrying about his KD, they would have won. Yes my kd sucked but I was a warthog drive carrying team mates to each objective and we won. Once kids quit obsessing over kd these days, they will find games much more enjoyable.

It isn’t just the halo fan base. I play a couple other games. Holy crap people suck now. Everyone just attacks everyone. As teens say “they has no chill” No one plays for fun, they play to be the next -Yoink!- gamer lol

> 2533274922424373;1:
> Will we ever be able to bring the community back? And will we be able to make halo shine again?

No. The community is split into several groups.

1.)You have the Elite players (these are Elite in terms of skill, they are the players that are exceptionally good at Halo 5 typically ranked Diamond and above). Most of the time the elites harshly criticize anybody that says anything negative about the game especially if the suggestion might hender any advantages that they currently enjoy. ANY suggestion no matter how small that would hurt them, they will strongly insult you. They don’t care if the playerbase is small.Their enjoyment is the only thing that matters. They only want the best players playing. If you are mediocre, they expect you to become a pro or find another game to play.
2.) Then you have the Old School Halo players that despise Reach , Halo 4 and 5 or some combination of the 3. This group will only be satisfied with a Halo 2 clone. They hate sprint. Most of the time they hate every new ability that’s in Reach or later. They quickly like to point out how Halo is dying. Sales are terrible. Yada yada yada.

The rest of the community is splintered even further by lack of split screen. Lack of MC missions will only play as MC. or Other stuff.

The first 2 groups seem to make up at least half the people on this site. Neither group will in no way be willing to compromise for the sake of the playerbase as a whole.

The third group(rest of the community) may be willing to compromise but again that doesn’t matter because of the first 2 groups.

> 2533274825101441;5:
> > 2533274922424373;1:
> > Will we ever be able to bring the community back? And will we be able to make halo shine again?
>
>
> No. The community is split into several groups.
>
> 1.)You have the Elite players (these are Elite in terms of skill, they are the players that are exceptionally good at Halo 5 typically ranked Diamond and above). Most of the time the elites harshly criticize anybody that says anything negative about the game especially if the suggestion might hender any advantages that they currently enjoy. ANY suggestion no matter how small that would hurt them, they will strongly insult you. They don’t care if the playerbase is small.Their enjoyment is the only thing that matters. They only want the best players playing. If you are mediocre, they expect you to become a pro or find another game to play.
> 2.) Then you have the Old School Halo players that despise Reach , Halo 4 and 5 or some combination of the 3. This group will only be satisfied with a Halo 2 clone. They hate sprint. Most of the time they hate every new ability that’s in Reach or later. They quickly like to point out how Halo is dying. Sales are terrible. Yada yada yada.
>
> The rest of the community is splintered even further by lack of split screen. Lack of MC missions will only play as MC. or Other stuff.
>
> The first 2 groups seem to make up at least half the people on this site. Neither group will in no way be willing to compromise for the sake of the playerbase as a whole.
>
> The third group(rest of the community) may be willing to compromise but again that doesn’t matter because of the first 2 groups.

Don’t forget the 4th one. The part of the community that defends anything related to halo. It’s a minority but a very loud minority.

Halo will never be that Halo of past. I’m not talking about gameplay, mechanics, or what not, I’m just talking about the Halo brand. It’s a sad truth that many of us have to realize this.

I’ve been playing Halo since CE and I really like Halo 5. I like all of them, but I’m a big ole Halo fanboy and I’m not too picky, I guess. I’m most critical of Reach’s multiplayer, but I still love it. I find Halo 3’s the hardest, but I still love it. I find Halo 4’s most casual and chaotic, but I still love it. I find Halo 2 to be a BR & grenade fest with the worst weapon balancing (honestly, what’s the point of the other weapons in that game?), but I still love it.

I find Halo 5’s to be most balanced, though … especially in terms of the guns. They’re all useful. I like the abilities, but sometimes they seem a little intrusive as I tend to play a bit more conservatively. I don’t sprint a lot or do the Spartan Charge often, I tend to shoot at an opponent below me rather than ground pound, and I find I do rather well (for me, which is not well at all, lol).

My favorite is still CE.

> 2533274922424373;6:
> > 2533274825101441;5:
> > > 2533274922424373;1:
> > > Will we ever be able to bring the community back? And will we be able to make halo shine again?
> >
> >
> > No. The community is split into several groups.
> >
> > 1.)You have the Elite players (these are Elite in terms of skill, they are the players that are exceptionally good at Halo 5 typically ranked Diamond and above). Most of the time the elites harshly criticize anybody that says anything negative about the game especially if the suggestion might hender any advantages that they currently enjoy. ANY suggestion no matter how small that would hurt them, they will strongly insult you. They don’t care if the playerbase is small.Their enjoyment is the only thing that matters. They only want the best players playing. If you are mediocre, they expect you to become a pro or find another game to play.
> > 2.) Then you have the Old School Halo players that despise Reach , Halo 4 and 5 or some combination of the 3. This group will only be satisfied with a Halo 2 clone. They hate sprint. Most of the time they hate every new ability that’s in Reach or later. They quickly like to point out how Halo is dying. Sales are terrible. Yada yada yada.
> >
> > The rest of the community is splintered even further by lack of split screen. Lack of MC missions will only play as MC. or Other stuff.
> >
> > The first 2 groups seem to make up at least half the people on this site. Neither group will in no way be willing to compromise for the sake of the playerbase as a whole.
> >
> > The third group(rest of the community) may be willing to compromise but again that doesn’t matter because of the first 2 groups.
>
>
> Don’t forget the 4th one. The part of the community that defends anything related to halo. It’s a minority but a very loud minority.

Then you have those people who like to put everyone into neat little groups even though nothing is ever that simple.

> 2787272447958470;3:
> I am 38 and and the COD trend that is killing this series is the recent obsession with KD. Never heard this obsession until after COD4. I mainly played Halo BTB all these years. Even back playing H2 and H3 online I never ever heard anyone even talk about KD. I am pretty sure kids are getting beat up in school over this or something because this obsession is just ridiculous especially in objective based games. I have been a warthog driver since H2 and have never cared about KD. I have driven team mates to 40+ kills in many games and I have thousands of assists. I am also always trying to capture objectives and help team mates capture objectives. I cant even imagine the games we would have lost if I refused to capture the objective or didn’t drive the warthog because I obsessed with KD. I always usually have 2-3 x the amount of assists of anyone I know. That is just what happens when you are a Warthog driver. My main focus is also always to have FUN.
>
> I mentioned a BTB game I played recently where the enemy team mate went 35 and 5 then complained to his team because they sucked. Yet he would not leave the spawn base to capture other objectives. He is 100% the reason they lost. If he had just went out and helped capture at least 1 other base, instead of worrying about his KD, they would have won. Yes my kd sucked but I was a warthog drive carrying team mates to each objective and we won. Once kids quit obsessing over kd these days, they will find games much more enjoyable.

I’ve noticed this too. In objective-based matches, I throw myself at bases or hills or strongholds or at flag carriers, essentially sacrificing myself over and over, just to slow down the other team, then I’ll realize all my team mates are standing on the fringes of the map trying to 4-shot everyone with the BR, oblivious to the fact they’re supposed to be capturing anything.

Maybe it is a new trend, because I’m also in my 30s and I never even bothered to look up my K/D until recent years when I kept hearing people brag about theirs.

> 2533274883669557;10:
> > 2787272447958470;3:
> > I am 38 and and the COD trend that is killing this series is the recent obsession with KD. Never heard this obsession until after COD4. I mainly played Halo BTB all these years. Even back playing H2 and H3 online I never ever heard anyone even talk about KD. I am pretty sure kids are getting beat up in school over this or something because this obsession is just ridiculous especially in objective based games. I have been a warthog driver since H2 and have never cared about KD. I have driven team mates to 40+ kills in many games and I have thousands of assists. I am also always trying to capture objectives and help team mates capture objectives. I cant even imagine the games we would have lost if I refused to capture the objective or didn’t drive the warthog because I obsessed with KD. I always usually have 2-3 x the amount of assists of anyone I know. That is just what happens when you are a Warthog driver. My main focus is also always to have FUN.
> >
> > I mentioned a BTB game I played recently where the enemy team mate went 35 and 5 then complained to his team because they sucked. Yet he would not leave the spawn base to capture other objectives. He is 100% the reason they lost. If he had just went out and helped capture at least 1 other base, instead of worrying about his KD, they would have won. Yes my kd sucked but I was a warthog drive carrying team mates to each objective and we won. Once kids quit obsessing over kd these days, they will find games much more enjoyable.
>
>
> I’ve noticed this too. In objective-based matches, I throw myself at bases or hills or strongholds or at flag carriers, essentially sacrificing myself over and over, just to slow down the other team, then I’ll realize all my team mates are standing on the fringes of the map trying to 4-shot everyone with the BR, oblivious to the fact they’re supposed to be capturing anything.
>
> Maybe it is a new trend, because I’m also in my 30s and I never even bothered to look up my K/D until recent years when I kept hearing people brag about theirs.

I don’t even think it’s about objectives, it’s something much deeper: people don’t understand teamwork.

I have been that guy who charges in to the objectives over and over, dying each time, but I’ve also been the one who stands at a distance and tries to 4-shot people. If I have four teammates running to an armory, and I see enemy spartans creeping around on the roof, I hang back and try to kill or at least harass them for my teammates. I got two kills and an assist doing that very thing last night and my team capped the west armory on Stormbreak. They got the points for the capture, because I was too far away to get inside before that, but I did help.

I’m thinking now that it’s not about play style, it’s about how you use that play style. Is it to your own benefit (which is fallacious) or is it to the benefit of the team?

> 2533274922424373;1:
> I have played halo since CE and I’ve seen the halo fanbase rise and fall. I’m so ashamed to be a halo fan now because everyone here tears each other to pieces over what they want to be halo. The community is falling apart thanks to non fans continuously harassing us and bashing our favorite games and the fans of the series as well. Will we ever be able to bring the community back? And will we be able to make halo shine again?

For the most part halo 5 is a step in the right direction to bring back the original fan base.

> 2533274873204041;11:
> > 2533274883669557;10:
> > > 2787272447958470;3:
> > > I am 38 and and the COD trend that is killing this series is the recent obsession with KD. Never heard this obsession until after COD4. I mainly played Halo BTB all these years. Even back playing H2 and H3 online I never ever heard anyone even talk about KD. I am pretty sure kids are getting beat up in school over this or something because this obsession is just ridiculous especially in objective based games. I have been a warthog driver since H2 and have never cared about KD. I have driven team mates to 40+ kills in many games and I have thousands of assists. I am also always trying to capture objectives and help team mates capture objectives. I cant even imagine the games we would have lost if I refused to capture the objective or didn’t drive the warthog because I obsessed with KD. I always usually have 2-3 x the amount of assists of anyone I know. That is just what happens when you are a Warthog driver. My main focus is also always to have FUN.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a BTB game I played recently where the enemy team mate went 35 and 5 then complained to his team because they sucked. Yet he would not leave the spawn base to capture other objectives. He is 100% the reason they lost. If he had just went out and helped capture at least 1 other base, instead of worrying about his KD, they would have won. Yes my kd sucked but I was a warthog drive carrying team mates to each objective and we won. Once kids quit obsessing over kd these days, they will find games much more enjoyable.
> >
> >
> > I’ve noticed this too. In objective-based matches, I throw myself at bases or hills or strongholds or at flag carriers, essentially sacrificing myself over and over, just to slow down the other team, then I’ll realize all my team mates are standing on the fringes of the map trying to 4-shot everyone with the BR, oblivious to the fact they’re supposed to be capturing anything.
> >
> > Maybe it is a new trend, because I’m also in my 30s and I never even bothered to look up my K/D until recent years when I kept hearing people brag about theirs.
>
>
> I don’t even think it’s about objectives, it’s something much deeper: people don’t understand teamwork.
>
> I have been that guy who charges in to the objectives over and over, dying each time, but I’ve also been the one who stands at a distance and tries to 4-shot people. If I have four teammates running to an armory, and I see enemy spartans creeping around on the roof, I hang back and try to kill or at least harass them for my teammates. I got two kills and an assist doing that very thing last night and my team capped the west armory on Stormbreak. They got the points for the capture, because I was too far away to get inside before that, but I did help.
>
> I’m thinking now that it’s not about play style, it’s about how you use that play style. Is it to your own benefit (which is fallacious) or is it to the benefit of the team?

I understand both sides for sure. However it really needs to maintain a balance on a team. If someone is just sitting back killing in an objective game, and their team is not capturing bases or objectives, the team mate only killing, really needs to focus on the objective or that team will lose. They are usually just too focused on KD.

> 2533274800383882;7:
> Halo will never be that Halo of past. I’m not talking about gameplay, mechanics, or what not, I’m just talking about the Halo brand. It’s a sad truth that many of us have to realize this.

I think many people know Halo is not as big of a brand as it was. If we are just talking about the brand/sales. There are much more competitions than before. COD got bigger than ever. Then there are Destiny and Battlefront. Rainbow six is also coming and looking great. Another fact is XBONE is not the go-to shooter console like the 360 and with the launch fiasco, seem like everyone wants Microsoft and everything it does to fail.

I think they are doing o.k. sales/brand wise, brands rise and fall all the time. I think everyone know that it will not be as big as H3 or even 4. I think they did enough to keep the brand going. As long as it’s still going then someday it will rise again. A realistic come back would probably be around H7 or 8 on the next console, if Microsoft learn from their XBONE launch mistakes.

> 2787272447958470;13:
> > 2533274873204041;11:
> > > 2533274883669557;10:
> > > > 2787272447958470;3:
> > > > I am 38 and and the COD trend that is killing this series is the recent obsession with KD. Never heard this obsession until after COD4. I mainly played Halo BTB all these years. Even back playing H2 and H3 online I never ever heard anyone even talk about KD. I am pretty sure kids are getting beat up in school over this or something because this obsession is just ridiculous especially in objective based games. I have been a warthog driver since H2 and have never cared about KD. I have driven team mates to 40+ kills in many games and I have thousands of assists. I am also always trying to capture objectives and help team mates capture objectives. I cant even imagine the games we would have lost if I refused to capture the objective or didn’t drive the warthog because I obsessed with KD. I always usually have 2-3 x the amount of assists of anyone I know. That is just what happens when you are a Warthog driver. My main focus is also always to have FUN.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a BTB game I played recently where the enemy team mate went 35 and 5 then complained to his team because they sucked. Yet he would not leave the spawn base to capture other objectives. He is 100% the reason they lost. If he had just went out and helped capture at least 1 other base, instead of worrying about his KD, they would have won. Yes my kd sucked but I was a warthog drive carrying team mates to each objective and we won. Once kids quit obsessing over kd these days, they will find games much more enjoyable.
> > >
> > >
> > > [/snipped]
> >
> >
> > I don’t even think it’s about objectives, it’s something much deeper: people don’t understand teamwork.
> >
> > I have been that guy who charges in to the objectives over and over, dying each time, but I’ve also been the one who stands at a distance and tries to 4-shot people. If I have four teammates running to an armory, and I see enemy spartans creeping around on the roof, I hang back and try to kill or at least harass them for my teammates. I got two kills and an assist doing that very thing last night and my team capped the west armory on Stormbreak. They got the points for the capture, because I was too far away to get inside before that, but I did help.
> >
> > I’m thinking now that it’s not about play style, it’s about how you use that play style. Is it to your own benefit (which is fallacious) or is it to the benefit of the team?
>
>
> I understand both sides for sure. However it really needs to maintain a balance on a team. If someone is just sitting back killing in an objective game, and their team is not capturing bases or objectives, the team mate only killing, really needs to focus on the objective or that team will lose. They are usually just too focused on KD.

No doubt, the K/D obsession is a thing. I’m just saying that the lone wolf play style can still be valid if these kids can learn that it is a team game and not just about stats. Using your solo-skill to get kills can be useful to your team if you have the mindset to put it to use for the team; you can rack up protector medals easy if your goal is to cover your allies or to protect an asset (like a spawn location or a boss spawn). In this way you can still keep the K/D ratios and make that work for you.

But that has to be something that the individuals realize for themselves, you can’t tell them that. Hence the lack of understanding of teamwork.

> 2533274802862198;12:
> > 2533274922424373;1:
> > I have played halo since CE and I’ve seen the halo fanbase rise and fall. I’m so ashamed to be a halo fan now because everyone here tears each other to pieces over what they want to be halo. The community is falling apart thanks to non fans continuously harassing us and bashing our favorite games and the fans of the series as well. Will we ever be able to bring the community back? And will we be able to make halo shine again?
>
>
> For the most part halo 5 is a step in the right direction to bring back the original fan base.

  1. I’m glad that someone else says this. I know that the group who will only be happy with a Halo 2 clone don’t agree that this is the step in the right direction. Yes, sprint is in as well as clamber, Spartan charge, ground pound, etc. with the new movement mechanics. But unlike Reach and 4 everyone has these abilities. It brings back what I loved so much about Halo: everyone has the same level playing field starting off a match. It’s back to a race to the power weapons and a race to control the map.
  2. As far as caring so much about K/D: I believe it’s ease of access that killed this. It’s so easy to see and so much easier to post on social media or send a screenshot that it’s become the ultimate goal for a lot of people playing alone. I guarantee you that if you’re playing with a team no one will care about their K/D over winning the game. Those types of players don’t stay on a team long.
  3. Bringing the community back? We need to bring the customization, game type, custom game options, Forge, fileshare, etc. back. We’re playing a picked bare skeleton of the game that we’ve loved so much and it’s stale far too quickly. I want to believe that is the main catalyst to the vast amount of complaints here on the forum.

I don’t have any problem with the community. Its not the communities fault that things have become like this, large communities are always going to be potentially volatile.

The current division is 100% the result of the developers, Bungie included. It shouldn’t be any surprise that no one can come to any consensus, because there has hardly been any consistency when it comes to this franchise. There has been next to no consistent vision that the games have followed and it is no surprise to me that the most consistent period in the franchise(H2-H3) was also the most successful, where the community was at its peak.

Naturally some people understandably lamented the changes coming from CE to H2, but it still felt like it was in the same sub-genre. Then we get to Reach where we have our next big shift in gameplay with uneven starts with AA’s, bloom, no bleedthrough, but it also had throwbacks like health packs, and no dual wielding. Fitting in between something like the original trilogy and what would be Halo 4. These changes were controversial but unlike the changes going from CE to H2 which mostly focused around the dumbing down or simplification of existing mechanics, the changes in Reach were changes to the core gameplay itself and would inevitably cause a division. The crack was formed.

Then we get to Halo 4 which doubled down on all the most controversial aspects on Reach drove a wedge right into that crack and created the rift we have today. Then Halo 5 comes along and tries to bridge the gap, but its so full of holes that it huge numbers of people end up falling through.

So now we have situation where we have 4 different types of experiences(5 if we wanted to separate CE from H2/H3). We have fans of the original trilogy, Reach, Halo 4, and now Halo 5 with gameplay varying wildly in some areas. How do you reconcile all of these groups?

The answer is that you don’t, or rather can’t, especially in a single title. Much of these mechanics are just fundamentally incompatible with each other and trying to satisfy every group at once leaves no one(as a group) very happy.

TL;DR As a Halo veteran the problems I see plaguing the community are the result of developers being unable to commit to a direction. Its no wonder no one can agree on anything when things shift around so wildly.

> 2533274820804117;14:
> > 2533274800383882;7:
> > Halo will never be that Halo of past. I’m not talking about gameplay, mechanics, or what not, I’m just talking about the Halo brand. It’s a sad truth that many of us have to realize this.
>
>
> I think many people know Halo is not as big of a brand as it was. If we are just talking about the brand/sales. There are much more competitions than before. COD got bigger than ever. Then there are Destiny and Battlefront. Rainbow six is also coming and looking great. Another fact is XBONE is not the go-to shooter console like the 360 and with the launch fiasco, seem like everyone wants Microsoft and everything it does to fail.
> I think they are doing o.k. sales/brand wise, brands rise and fall all the time. I think everyone know that it will not be as big as H3 or even 4. I think they did enough to keep the brand going. As long as it’s still going then someday it will rise again. A realistic come back would probably be around H7 or 8 on the next console, if Microsoft learn from their XBONE launch mistakes.

Halo always had strong competition during it’s golden years. There were fantastic games that came out during 2001-2010 BF (before Reach). Sure Halo 4 had decent sales, but the brand took a huge hit from that game. Then MCC came out to build the Halo brand back up, but in reality, that release hurt the Halo brand even more. Only time will tell, but as it stands now, the Halo brand has fallen.

I used to post on the Bungie Halo 2 forums every day. Honestly, I remember the forum community being just like this - a lot of fanboy hyberbole. People cared about their rank and K/D at least as much as people do today.

Also, back then there was no party chat and a lot more people would be on their mic. The “community” on xbox live was a disgrace with almost every game starting and ending with torrents of abuse and hate.

It’s really about the same. Back in the H3 days you had people complaining about holes in elites heads, BR spreads, and bullet lag.