HALO VETERAN FEEDBACK BTB IS FUN BUT UNDERWHELMING

Hello, this is my second topic on Halo Infinite’s feedback. I’m a long time Halo Fan, and I’ve had a blast testing the Halo Infinite Flight.

I recently made a topic regarding the current state of aiming if you want to read more about why it is so frustrating.

But I’m here to talk about Big Team Battle.

The most important aspect of BTB is that it is fun! It’s a lot of fun to play with friends, but it’s not without core fundamental issues that need to be fixed before launch. Mainly, this iteration of big team battle doesn’t feel big in the least sense. It’s more like a randomized arena with more players. If this is 343’s vision, then I get it, but this could be so much more.

1- Let’s begin with what BTB is about: Vehicles.
There’s simply… no vehicles, there’s no vehicle mayhem, there’s no variety in vehicle combat.

Back in Halo 2 and 3, bases spawned from the get go with so many vehicles, a banshee, a scorpion, or a wraith tank, two warthogs one of which could be a gausshog, mongooses, you name it.

This was great because players could engage in vehicle combat from the beginning, and you would get these exciting duels between a scorpion and two hogs, or a hornet against a ghost. Anybody remembers how satisfying it was to hit a banshee with a wraith mortar round?

This aspect is completely gone from Halo Infinite, because bases have very few vehicles, and then the pelican drop-ship will drop random weak vehicles on timers, so there’s never any sort of variety in vehicle vs vehicle combat. Which leads us to our next point.

2- Pelican drop-ships, and weapon ordnance: Randomness.
By far the most confusing element of BTB is the randomness in the pelican drops and the ordnance drops. I do not like this AT ALL. Currently, it mostly drops Ghosts, and ordnance is so random, but this isn’t just a weighing issue, no, no. This is flawed to the core, let me explain:
I understand that 343 wants BTB to be an almost cinematic experience, but this cannot take precedence over gameplay. Thankfully, there’s an easy way to fix this, without removing these two things altogether.

By simply making vehicles spawn in set locations on a timer, like it has always been before. It is totally OK to have vehicles spawn out of thin air. It’s reliable, it’s predictable, it’s fun and the most important thing: more players can drive more vehicles in a single game. Furthermore, it encourages cooperation and it is BIG.
The problem with the pelican drop is that very few players get rewarded for a seemingly important event. Hence, it is underwhelming.

Then there’s the ordnance drops. Currently, it is so underwhelming, you just come across these things every once in a while, it feels unrewarded, unfair, it is not fun, it’s random. This can also be easily fixed.
Remember the mission Delta Halo back in Halo 2? Remember how cool it was to see a pelican approach and have it drop weapons all over the battlefield? I do remember, and I wish 343 would change the current implementation for the pelican to drop weapons instead of vehicles.
Let me explain why this makes more sense and why it would be better for BTB: as players see the pelican approach, they can follow their trajectory, they know the pelican will be dropping weapons all along the path. So players can rush to the pelican and get rewarded with cool weapons, it also encourages cooperation with players swapping guns or fighting the enemy team for the ordnance.

3- Active fighting time is very low: Starting Weapons.
The respawn time is 5 seconds. In objective game-modes, it’s 10 seconds. You would think that when you get killed, you can get onto the fight right away. This is not true, and even though Halo has never been about mindlessly rushing into the battlefield, the current BTB implementation has less action and fewer battles happening because of a single issue: the starting kit.
BTB has to be a BR start, no question about it. Every argument against it is ridiculous, specially after the fact that there’s A LOT of precision weapons littered all over the map. What this causes is that when you spawn, you will inevitably run towards weapon racks to pick up a BR or a Commando. So in the end everybody has precision weapons anyways.
The difference is that aside from the 5 second respawn time, I have to spend an extra 15 to 30 seconds looking for a precision weapon rack.
This is taking the fun away from BTB, forcing players to enter this loop is not good. Specially if you get killed once you reach a battle zone, you’re forced into that 20 second respawn loop.

4- Hacking is boring and pointless: Loot Caves.
The loot cave was exciting the first couple of times. A few games later and people just ignored them. It takes a lot of time to open and you can’t leave the immediate area, but the worst offender is how there’s nothing inside. A power weapon and a power up.
This is the same problem with the pelican drops, a seemingly big event that leaves more players frustrated and empty-handed. Sometimes the hacking player gets nothing.
This can also be easily fixed: Add a lot more loot inside, maybe even a vehicle. Oh, no, that would be so broken, you might think, but fret not. The way this can be balanced is by notifying ALL players that a hack is taking place.
This increases player engagement, it feels fair and rewarding and worth fighting for, it would be BIG.

These are all my observations regarding BTB. Things I didn’t mention, like maps or game types I don’t have an issue with. And I think 343 did a great job on those regards (except the random flag spawns).

Thanks for reading, please discuss.

My biggest gripe with the BTB is just how badly they are managing vehicle balance. I don’t appreciate the vehicle drop at all. Sometimes, the dropped vehicle get damaged in crossfire before anyone can even hop into them. We should at least have them at the beginning of the match and they can continue with their drop thing after they are destroyed. As much as the equipments are fun, they are frustrating. Especially for the vehicles, I don’t like how this new sandbox is literally littered with anti vehicle equipment at every corner of the map. Replusor isn’t a big deal in this regard. It’s the grapple that annoys me a lot. There must be a way to tackle players trying to board you using their grapple hook. If not, I don’t think I will last long with vehicles. Also the mangoose design, I don’t like it. Don’t like it at all. The warthog looks like a RC car to me. Compared to all the other improvements In visuals, the warthog still looks plastic-y to me. Missing the metal shine/appearance Bungie games had. As for the map, I actually liked this new map and the behemoth as well. The loot cave are tho…not exciting. I haven’t played the BTB flight but I think both the team have the loot cave right? I think there should have been just one in the middle of the map. Whoever gets there first starts hacking it, and you will hold your place and defend yourselves from the enemy trying to hijack your postion. Also instead of the weapon and power ups, it could have been power vehicles.

> 2533274821521504;1:
> BTB has to be a BR start, no question about it. Every argument against it is ridiculous, specially after the fact that there’s A LOT of precision weapons littered all over the map. What this causes is that when you spawn, you will inevitably run towards weapon racks to pick up a BR or a Commando. So in the end everybody has precision weapons anyways.

No… no it doesnt and you just answered your own reason why. At the end of the day, BTB is a social mode and needs to have the lowest barrier for entry skill wise. This means not spawning with a precision rifle given it requires more skill then an AR. That being said, a BR will out perform the AR at longer ranges which does make it more effective in BTB.

There are also TONS of spawns for precision weapons which makes the complaint that we dont spawn with the almost irrelevant given the ease of access. The games current state allows a low skill barrier for players while also constantly providing precision weapons for those that want them.

> 2535473783523584;2:
> My biggest gripe with the BTB is just how badly they are managing vehicle balance. I don’t appreciate the vehicle drop at all. Sometimes, the dropped vehicle get damaged in crossfire before anyone can even hop into them. We should at least have them at the beginning of the match and they can continue with their drop thing after they are destroyed. As much as the equipments are fun, they are frustrating. Especially for the vehicles, I don’t like how this new sandbox is literally littered with anti vehicle equipment at every corner of the map. Replusor isn’t a big deal in this regard. It’s the grapple that annoys me a lot. There must be a way to tackle players trying to board you using their grapple hook. If not, I don’t think I will last long with vehicles. Also the mangoose design, I don’t like it. Don’t like it at all. The warthog looks like a RC car to me. Compared to all the other improvements In visuals, the warthog still looks plastic-y to me. Missing the metal shine/appearance Bungie games had. As for the map, I actually liked this new map and the behemoth as well. The loot cave are tho…not exciting. I haven’t played the BTB flight but I think both the team have the loot cave right? I think there should have been just one in the middle of the map. Whoever gets there first starts hacking it, and you will hold your place and defend yourselves from the enemy trying to hijack your postion. Also instead of the weapon and power ups, it could have been power vehicles.

wait… hold on… your making these criticisms without actually playing the flight? I mean, its ok to have a perception, but its difficult to have any validity when you openly say you havent actually participated in any of these systems in the context of btb.

ANyway, thats off topic. There are 2 lootcaves in the middle of the map on each side (left and right). No team has a lootcave on their side. Both have to be fought over and generally are. The vehicle system does 2 things really. It provides a feeling of escalation throughout the match as well as tries to balance out the power of the teams. For example, if one team is currently up by 2 in ctf, near the end mark the game may give the losing team a tank and the winning team a wasp. If the teams are tied, both should get the same vehicle. Currently, the main issue I have with this system is it starts to kick in too late in the game for my liking. Right now it starts with 5 min left when it should start with 7-10 min left. Give more people more time to play with the bigger toys.

As for the hog, its fine to not like the look but we need to realize metal isnt shiny. The hog has a similar look to that of a humvee, its pretty on point.

As for equipment, my only issue is it seems the hitbox for the grapple is a bit too big with vehicles so its pretty easy to pull off. There are 2 ways to address this, either reduce the hitbox to make it harder to hit (a tricky balancing act) or give vehicles a way to counter. The banshee kind of does with its flip, but the wasp has nothing. The wasp is quick and since grapple is multiplicative with movement (if you grapple a moving object, your speed is essentially increased with the opbjects speed), let the wasp speed up and then stop, making the grappler fly by them and breaking the grapple. Ground vehicle grapples are pretty easy, if getting grappled, hop out and throw a dynamo nade = easy kill.

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> > 2533274821521504;1:
> > BTB has to be a BR start, no question about it. Every argument against it is ridiculous, specially after the fact that there’s A LOT of precision weapons littered all over the map. What this causes is that when you spawn, you will inevitably run towards weapon racks to pick up a BR or a Commando. So in the end everybody has precision weapons anyways.
>
> No… no it doesnt and you just answered your own reason why. At the end of the day, BTB is a social mode and needs to have the lowest barrier for entry skill wise. This means not spawning with a precision rifle given it requires more skill then an AR. That being said, a BR will out perform the AR at longer ranges which does make it more effective in BTB.
>
> There are also TONS of spawns for precision weapons which makes the complaint that we dont spawn with the almost irrelevant given the ease of access. The games current state allows a low skill barrier for players while also constantly providing precision weapons for those that want them.

I explained why having so many precision guns in the map is detrimental to the flow and the gameplay loop. You just decided to ignore it.

I couldn’t agree more with you. I’m an og fan and btb has always been my favorite playlist.

BR starts always gave you a chance off spawn to defend against vehicles, power weapons and from being spawn trapped. As it is right now it’s easy to get picked off across the map just trying to rush to a weapon pad to get a ranged weapon. The AR is like 343s new starting precision weapon which makes no sense because that’s not what it’s supposed to be in the sandbox. It’s almost like they known we’ve wanted BR starts in h5 but just refuse to give it to us.

The AR should be a beast of a weapon but you shouldn’t spawn with it. I’d much rather have a viable BR and then pick up a beast AR for close quarters combat.

The vehicles need to spawn more frequently around the bases. The pelicans should only drop in special variants of those vehicles. Why not spawn in a Hannibal mantis or an oni gauss hog. Make those evens more meaningful and unique. Not spawn in a ghost every 3 minutes.

but yeah btb is extremely underwhelming, it’s sad that I enjoyed social arena more than btb when I’m a HUGE btb guy. Heck I even really enjoyed warzone and this mode had nothing to make it btb 2.0 other than the player count. It needs some work

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> > 2533274821521504;1:
> >
>
> No… no it doesnt and you just answered your own reason why. At the end of the day, BTB is a social mode and needs to have the lowest barrier for entry skill wise. This means not spawning with a precision rifle given it requires more skill then an AR. That being said, a BR will out perform the AR at longer ranges which does make it more effective in BTB.
>
> There are also TONS of spawns for precision weapons which makes the complaint that we dont spawn with the almost irrelevant given the ease of access. The games current state allows a low skill barrier for players while also constantly providing precision weapons for those that want them.

Send low-skilled players with ARs against intermediate+ players with BRs, and see how long the low-skilled players keep not wanting precision weapons. There will be a point very soon after launch where a majority of the 12-man team will be queuing at the precision weapon spawns because they know that’s their only way to compete in the longer-range fights of BTB.
The AR and Sidekick seem to be headed towards nerfs, where the vast majority say the BR is in the perfect place. If that happens, then we will all need to rethink our stance on the weapon spawns of BTB.

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> > >
>
> Send low-skilled players with ARs against intermediate+ players with BRs, and see how long the low-skilled players keep not wanting precision weapons. There will be a point very soon after launch where a majority of the 12-man team will be queuing at the precision weapon spawns because they know that’s their only way to compete in the longer-range fights of BTB.
> The AR and Sidekick seem to be headed towards nerfs, where the vast majority say the BR is in the perfect place. If that happens, then we will all need to rethink our stance on the weapon spawns of BTB.

Low skilled players will.always get killed by high skilled players no matter what you give them. The AR is actually decent enough that a couple of lower skilled players can take down a very skilled player together. Can’t say the same is true for them when they have BRs at range.

I’m a super competitive player but I can see the merit in why this is good for casual Halo. The eSports settings need to pop still, but I’m glad the game can be more fun for everyone.

BR starts in Big Team would be lame. They’ve specifically designed the maps to have less sight lines and to encourage more CQB encounters. If 12 months ago you told me the gravity hammer wasn’t useless in the new Halo big team mode I’d be laughing.

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> > > >
> >
> > Send low-skilled players with ARs against intermediate+ players with BRs, and see how long the low-skilled players keep not wanting precision weapons. There will be a point very soon after launch where a majority of the 12-man team will be queuing at the precision weapon spawns because they know that’s their only way to compete in the longer-range fights of BTB.
> > The AR and Sidekick seem to be headed towards nerfs, where the vast majority say the BR is in the perfect place. If that happens, then we will all need to rethink our stance on the weapon spawns of BTB.
>
> BR starts in Big Team would be lame. They’ve specifically designed the maps to have less sight lines and to encourage more CQB encounters.

Wait, you’ve seen more than just the one map?
I thought Fragmentation was great for BRs. Medium range sight lines all over the place, with few enclosed spaces. Hell, you can easily avoid the enclosed space areas, but you can’t avoid walking through areas where BR is king. You want to leave your base, you gotta walk through a sizable open area. I don’t know where you’d be able to reliably get in melee range aside from the center room. Sure doesn’t feel like they designed this map in particular to encourage CQB. If anything, feels like an even mix of close, medium, and long range zones.

> 2533274821521504;5:
> > 2533274840624875;3:
> > > 2533274821521504;1:
> > > BTB has to be a BR start, no question about it. Every argument against it is ridiculous, specially after the fact that there’s A LOT of precision weapons littered all over the map. What this causes is that when you spawn, you will inevitably run towards weapon racks to pick up a BR or a Commando. So in the end everybody has precision weapons anyways.
> >
> > No… no it doesnt and you just answered your own reason why. At the end of the day, BTB is a social mode and needs to have the lowest barrier for entry skill wise. This means not spawning with a precision rifle given it requires more skill then an AR. That being said, a BR will out perform the AR at longer ranges which does make it more effective in BTB.
> >
> > There are also TONS of spawns for precision weapons which makes the complaint that we dont spawn with the almost irrelevant given the ease of access. The games current state allows a low skill barrier for players while also constantly providing precision weapons for those that want them.
>
> I explained why having so many precision guns in the map is detrimental to the flow and the gameplay loop. You just decided to ignore it.

If the maps end up designed for say the pistol then no. Halo 5 suffered with BR starts because of all the RRR issues and 343 being dumb about ignoring the forge creators and putting BRs in anyways. For infinite to justify BR starts, or any long range utility weapon really they need to make sure the maps have a lot of cover to them, or else it’ll just be 5+ people team shooting you with a BR🤷‍♀️ And that’s not fun. Hence the intention of magnum starts for halo 5 (that ended up not happening). RRR also needs to be taken into consideration

> 2533274821521504;5:
> > 2533274840624875;3:
> > > 2533274821521504;1:
> > > BTB has to be a BR start, no question about it. Every argument against it is ridiculous, specially after the fact that there’s A LOT of precision weapons littered all over the map. What this causes is that when you spawn, you will inevitably run towards weapon racks to pick up a BR or a Commando. So in the end everybody has precision weapons anyways.
> >
> > No… no it doesnt and you just answered your own reason why. At the end of the day, BTB is a social mode and needs to have the lowest barrier for entry skill wise. This means not spawning with a precision rifle given it requires more skill then an AR. That being said, a BR will out perform the AR at longer ranges which does make it more effective in BTB.
> >
> > There are also TONS of spawns for precision weapons which makes the complaint that we dont spawn with the almost irrelevant given the ease of access. The games current state allows a low skill barrier for players while also constantly providing precision weapons for those that want them.
>
> I explained why having so many precision guns in the map is detrimental to the flow and the gameplay loop. You just decided to ignore it.

So what about the player that sucks at the BR so the second they respawn they now have to run and get the AR because they don’t like any other weapon?

Why do all the BR players say the same thing? They act like everyone wants to play the game like them! Some people just like running around with there friends and not have to worry about mastering the BR play. Other people like using covenant weapons or more unique melee weapons. BR starts removes even the slight viability of these other weapons because if you swap out your BR you are dead. There was many times in BTB where I would respawn and run straight back to the objective and get back in the fight and actually survive with the base loadouts and then from there start swapping out to a better loadout. So anyone saying that you Must swap out the AR for a precision weapon in BTB is just wrong because you really didn’t. Now if we had BR spawns that would be a different story because I wouldn’t be able to move anywhere on the map without getting BR one cycled.

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> > > > 2533274821521504;1:
> > > > BTB has to be a BR start, no question about it. Every argument against it is ridiculous, specially after the fact that there’s A LOT of precision weapons littered all over the map. What this causes is that when you spawn, you will inevitably run towards weapon racks to pick up a BR or a Commando. So in the end everybody has precision weapons anyways.
> > >
> > > No… no it doesnt and you just answered your own reason why. At the end of the day, BTB is a social mode and needs to have the lowest barrier for entry skill wise. This means not spawning with a precision rifle given it requires more skill then an AR. That being said, a BR will out perform the AR at longer ranges which does make it more effective in BTB.
> > >
> > > There are also TONS of spawns for precision weapons which makes the complaint that we dont spawn with the almost irrelevant given the ease of access. The games current state allows a low skill barrier for players while also constantly providing precision weapons for those that want them.
> >
> > I explained why having so many precision guns in the map is detrimental to the flow and the gameplay loop. You just decided to ignore it.
>
> If the maps end up designed for say the pistol then no. Halo 5 suffered with BR starts because of all the RRR issues and 343 being dumb about ignoring the forge creators and putting BRs in anyways. For infinite to justify BR starts, or any long range utility weapon really they need to make sure the maps have a lot of cover to them, or else it’ll just be 5+ people team shooting you with a BR🤷‍♀️ And that’s not fun. Hence the intention of magnum starts for halo 5 (that ended up not happening). RRR also needs to be taken into consideration

You bring up interesting points.

But again, there’s plenty of precision weapons in fragmentation yet team shooting was never a problem.

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> > 2533274821521504;5:
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> > > > 2533274821521504;1:
> > > > BTB has to be a BR start, no question about it. Every argument against it is ridiculous, specially after the fact that there’s A LOT of precision weapons littered all over the map. What this causes is that when you spawn, you will inevitably run towards weapon racks to pick up a BR or a Commando. So in the end everybody has precision weapons anyways.
> > >
> > > No… no it doesnt and you just answered your own reason why. At the end of the day, BTB is a social mode and needs to have the lowest barrier for entry skill wise. This means not spawning with a precision rifle given it requires more skill then an AR. That being said, a BR will out perform the AR at longer ranges which does make it more effective in BTB.
> > >
> > > There are also TONS of spawns for precision weapons which makes the complaint that we dont spawn with the almost irrelevant given the ease of access. The games current state allows a low skill barrier for players while also constantly providing precision weapons for those that want them.
> >
> > I explained why having so many precision guns in the map is detrimental to the flow and the gameplay loop. You just decided to ignore it.
>
> So what about the player that sucks at the BR so the second they respawn they now have to run and get the AR because they don’t like any other weapon?
>
> Why do all the BR players say the same thing? They act like everyone wants to play the game like them! Some people just like running around with there friends and not have to worry about mastering the BR play. Other people like using covenant weapons or more unique melee weapons. BR starts removes even the slight viability of these other weapons because if you swap out your BR you are dead. There was many times in BTB where I would respawn and run straight back to the objective and get back in the fight and actually survive with the base loadouts and then from there start swapping out to a better loadout. So anyone saying that you Must swap out the AR for a precision weapon in BTB is just wrong because you really didn’t. Now if we had BR spawns that would be a different story because I wouldn’t be able to move anywhere on the map without getting BR one cycled.

The starting kit can be AR, BR.

Simple.

It’s so annoying hearing everyone whine for AR starts at the launch of a halo game EVERY TIME then when the game drops and they start getting spawn camped by players with BRs, everyone wants br starts.

If you’re a worse player, you’re going to lose to whatever the opponent uses. The problem isn’t br starts, the problem is you’re not good at the game. That’s okay! But making it so you have ARs will not help you compete when the other team grabs all the ranged weapons and suddenly the game isn’t so fun anymore.

> 2535445923795921;14:
> It’s so annoying hearing everyone whine for AR starts at the launch of a halo game EVERY TIME then when the game drops and they start getting spawn camped by players with BRs, everyone wants br starts.
>
> If you’re a worse player, you’re going to lose to whatever the opponent uses. The problem isn’t br starts, the problem is you’re not good at the game. That’s okay! But making it so you have ARs will not help you compete when the other team grabs all the ranged weapons and suddenly the game isn’t so fun anymore.

That might be true in older Halos but in halo infinite grabbing all the precision weapon spawns isn’t a viable strategy for pro BR players anymore. Halo infinite plays very different to how Halo 3 plays with AR starts.

Halo Infinite is very viable with AR starts and it is easier for new players. The precision weapons are harder to use so if there is BR starts bad player would be at an even more severe disadvantage than if there is AR starts. The AR rewards player that arent the best and the BR punishes pro players for missing even one shot. So BR starts would widen the the skill disparity even more than AR starts. No thank you that doesn’t belong in unranked casual social play. In ranked play I fully agree but social play it shouldn’t be there. Just how SWAT isn’t a social game mode neither should BR starts which just reinforce competitive play and aggressive camping

> 2533274969977277;15:
> > 2535445923795921;14:
> > It’s so annoying hearing everyone whine for AR starts at the launch of a halo game EVERY TIME then when the game drops and they start getting spawn camped by players with BRs, everyone wants br starts.
> >
> > If you’re a worse player, you’re going to lose to whatever the opponent uses. The problem isn’t br starts, the problem is you’re not good at the game. That’s okay! But making it so you have ARs will not help you compete when the other team grabs all the ranged weapons and suddenly the game isn’t so fun anymore.
>
> That might be true in older Halos but in halo infinite grabbing all the precision weapon spawns isn’t a viable strategy for pro BR players anymore. Halo infinite plays very different to how Halo 3 plays with AR starts.
>
> Halo Infinite is very viable with AR starts and it is easier for new players. The precision weapons are harder to use so if there is BR starts bad player would be at an even more severe disadvantage than if there is AR starts. The AR rewards player that arent the best and the BR punishes pro players for missing even one shot. So BR starts would widen the the skill disparity even more than AR starts. No thank you that doesn’t belong in unranked casual social play. In ranked play I fully agree but social play it shouldn’t be there. Just how SWAT isn’t a social game mode neither should BR starts which just reinforce competitive play and aggressive camping

You’re still ignoring my main argument.

Picking up precision weapons adds 10 to 30 seconds to your Respawn time. Essentially reducing the total time you’re actually engaging in fights.

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> > > It’s so annoying hearing everyone whine for AR starts at the launch of a halo game EVERY TIME then when the game drops and they start getting spawn camped by players with BRs, everyone wants br starts.
> > >
> > > If you’re a worse player, you’re going to lose to whatever the opponent uses. The problem isn’t br starts, the problem is you’re not good at the game. That’s okay! But making it so you have ARs will not help you compete when the other team grabs all the ranged weapons and suddenly the game isn’t so fun anymore.
> >
> > That might be true in older Halos but in halo infinite grabbing all the precision weapon spawns isn’t a viable strategy for pro BR players anymore. Halo infinite plays very different to how Halo 3 plays with AR starts.
> >
> > Halo Infinite is very viable with AR starts and it is easier for new players. The precision weapons are harder to use so if there is BR starts bad player would be at an even more severe disadvantage than if there is AR starts. The AR rewards player that arent the best and the BR punishes pro players for missing even one shot. So BR starts would widen the the skill disparity even more than AR starts. No thank you that doesn’t belong in unranked casual social play. In ranked play I fully agree but social play it shouldn’t be there. Just how SWAT isn’t a social game mode neither should BR starts which just reinforce competitive play and aggressive camping
>
> You’re still ignoring my main argument.
>
> Picking up precision weapons adds 10 to 30 seconds to your Respawn time. Essentially reducing the total time you’re actually engaging in fights.

No it doesn’t. I never really went out of my way to pick up a precision weapon so I never wasted any time. Also going around the map and picking up weapons has been part of halos DNA since CE so honestly maybe you just aren’t made to play Halo games lol

Edit and for your argument that we could spawn with BR and ARs I wouldn’t like that either because I don’t like running 2 rifles so I would then have to run around and swap pout the AR for a pistol or power weapon which would take time also i don’t like using the BR all the time so that would be very boring to me but the problem with BR starts is I wouldn’t really be able to switch out the BR because everyone would have one.

The problem with BR starts isn’t that it’s not a good loadout. It’s actually probably the better loadout and balance. The problem with BR starts is that if you start the game with a perfect loadout then what’s the point of even spawning any weapon other than power weapons? You would have absolutely no reason to even change you loadout in a match if you start with BRs and to me that ruins one of the coolest things about Halo that makes it different than other shooters. The way in how we use the sandbox to adjust our loadouts on the fly to be able to combat the enemy in unique and cool way each game! The BR start remove this very loved mechanic.

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> > > > It’s so annoying hearing everyone whine for AR starts at the launch of a halo game EVERY TIME then when the game drops and they start getting spawn camped by players with BRs, everyone wants br starts.
> > > >
> > > > If you’re a worse player, you’re going to lose to whatever the opponent uses. The problem isn’t br starts, the problem is you’re not good at the game. That’s okay! But making it so you have ARs will not help you compete when the other team grabs all the ranged weapons and suddenly the game isn’t so fun anymore.
> > >
> > > That might be true in older Halos but in halo infinite grabbing all the precision weapon spawns isn’t a viable strategy for pro BR players anymore. Halo infinite plays very different to how Halo 3 plays with AR starts.
> > >
> > > Halo Infinite is very viable with AR starts and it is easier for new players. The precision weapons are harder to use so if there is BR starts bad player would be at an even more severe disadvantage than if there is AR starts. The AR rewards player that arent the best and the BR punishes pro players for missing even one shot. So BR starts would widen the the skill disparity even more than AR starts. No thank you that doesn’t belong in unranked casual social play. In ranked play I fully agree but social play it shouldn’t be there. Just how SWAT isn’t a social game mode neither should BR starts which just reinforce competitive play and aggressive camping
> >
> > You’re still ignoring my main argument.
> >
> > Picking up precision weapons adds 10 to 30 seconds to your Respawn time. Essentially reducing the total time you’re actually engaging in fights.
>
> No it doesn’t. I never really went out of my way to pick up a precision weapon so I never wasted any time. Also going around the map and picking up weapons has been part of halos DNA since CE so honestly maybe you just aren’t made to play Halo games lol
>
> Edit and for your argument that we could spawn with BR and ARs I wouldn’t like that either because I don’t like running 2 rifles so I would then have to run around and swap pout the AR for a pistol or power weapon which would take time also i don’t like using the BR all the time so that would be very boring to me but the problem with BR starts is I wouldn’t really be able to switch out the BR because everyone would have one.
>
> The problem with BR starts isn’t that it’s not a good loadout. It’s actually probably the better loadout and balance. The problem with BR starts is that if you start the game with a perfect loadout then what’s the point of even spawning any weapon other than power weapons? You would have absolutely no reason to even change you loadout in a match if you start with BRs and to me that ruins one of the coolest things about Halo that makes it different than other shooters. The way in how we use the sandbox to adjust our loadouts on the fly to be able to combat the enemy in unique and cool way each game! The BR start remove this very loved mechanic.

But this has never been the case, power weapons have never been ignored because you have a BR. In h3 every weapon that is ignored isnt because you have a br, it’s because that weapon sucks and serves no purpose that isn’t better served by something else.

For concrete evidence let’s look at some weapons that are STILL used with br starts

Sniper
Shotgun
Grav hammer
Splaser
Beam rifle
Rocket launcher
Plasma pistol
Brute shot
energy sword
Sometimes mauler/needler
ALL equipment, nades, and vehicles

Okay so now what weapons are we left with? Well, it turns out most if not all these weapons suck -Yoink- and are only useful when you have nothing else to use. The AR is a better option than many of them.

Plasma rifle
Magnum
spiker
Carbine (literally a worse BR)
Smg

So you’re missing out on a few weapons that you most likely wouldn’t pick up over an AR anyways, at least if you’re actually trying to win (which is the crux of the argument, that anyone trying to win will only use the best weapon available and the br is always the best).

> 2533274821521504;1:
> Hello, this is my second topic on Halo Infinite’s feedback. I’m a long time Halo Fan, and I’ve had a blast testing the Halo Infinite Flight.
>
> I recently made a topic regarding the current state of aiming if you want to read more about why it is so frustrating.But I’m here to talk about Big Team Battle.
>
> The most important aspect of BTB is that it is fun! It’s a lot of fun to play with friends, but it’s not without core fundamental issues that need to be fixed before launch. Mainly, this iteration of big team battle doesn’t feel big in the least sense. It’s more like a randomized arena with more players. If this is 343’s vision, then I get it, but this could be so much more.
>
> **1- Let’s begin with what BTB is about: Vehicles.**There’s simply… no vehicles, there’s no vehicle mayhem, there’s no variety in vehicle combat.
>
> Back in Halo 2 and 3, bases spawned from the get go with so many vehicles, a banshee, a scorpion, or a wraith tank, two warthogs one of which could be a gausshog, mongooses, you name it.
>
> This was great because players could engage in vehicle combat from the beginning, and you would get these exciting duels between a scorpion and two hogs, or a hornet against a ghost. Anybody remembers how satisfying it was to hit a banshee with a wraith mortar round?
>
> This aspect is completely gone from Halo Infinite, because bases have very few vehicles, and then the pelican drop-ship will drop random weak vehicles on timers, so there’s never any sort of variety in vehicle vs vehicle combat. Which leads us to our next point.
>
> **2- Pelican drop-ships, and weapon ordnance: Randomness.**By far the most confusing element of BTB is the randomness in the pelican drops and the ordnance drops. I do not like this AT ALL. Currently, it mostly drops Ghosts, and ordnance is so random, but this isn’t just a weighing issue, no, no. This is flawed to the core, let me explain:
> I understand that 343 wants BTB to be an almost cinematic experience, but this cannot take precedence over gameplay. Thankfully, there’s an easy way to fix this, without removing these two things altogether.
>
> By simply making vehicles spawn in set locations on a timer, like it has always been before. It is totally OK to have vehicles spawn out of thin air. It’s reliable, it’s predictable, it’s fun and the most important thing: more players can drive more vehicles in a single game. Furthermore, it encourages cooperation and it is BIG.
> The problem with the pelican drop is that very few players get rewarded for a seemingly important event. Hence, it is underwhelming.
>
> Then there’s the ordnance drops. Currently, it is so underwhelming, you just come across these things every once in a while, it feels unrewarded, unfair, it is not fun, it’s random. This can also be easily fixed.
> Remember the mission Delta Halo back in Halo 2? Remember how cool it was to see a pelican approach and have it drop weapons all over the battlefield? I do remember, and I wish 343 would change the current implementation for the pelican to drop weapons instead of vehicles.
> Let me explain why this makes more sense and why it would be better for BTB: as players see the pelican approach, they can follow their trajectory, they know the pelican will be dropping weapons all along the path. So players can rush to the pelican and get rewarded with cool weapons, it also encourages cooperation with players swapping guns or fighting the enemy team for the ordnance.
>
> **3- Active fighting time is very low: Starting Weapons.**The respawn time is 5 seconds. In objective game-modes, it’s 10 seconds. You would think that when you get killed, you can get onto the fight right away. This is not true, and even though Halo has never been about mindlessly rushing into the battlefield, the current BTB implementation has less action and fewer battles happening because of a single issue: the starting kit.
> BTB has to be a BR start, no question about it. Every argument against it is ridiculous, specially after the fact that there’s A LOT of precision weapons littered all over the map. What this causes is that when you spawn, you will inevitably run towards weapon racks to pick up a BR or a Commando. So in the end everybody has precision weapons anyways.
> The difference is that aside from the 5 second respawn time, I have to spend an extra 15 to 30 seconds looking for a precision weapon rack.
> This is taking the fun away from BTB, forcing players to enter this loop is not good. Specially if you get killed once you reach a battle zone, you’re forced into that 20 second respawn loop.
>
> **4- Hacking is boring and pointless: Loot Caves.**The loot cave was exciting the first couple of times. A few games later and people just ignored them. It takes a lot of time to open and you can’t leave the immediate area, but the worst offender is how there’s nothing inside. A power weapon and a power up.
> This is the same problem with the pelican drops, a seemingly big event that leaves more players frustrated and empty-handed. Sometimes the hacking player gets nothing.
> This can also be easily fixed: Add a lot more loot inside, maybe even a vehicle. Oh, no, that would be so broken, you might think, but fret not. The way this can be balanced is by notifying ALL players that a hack is taking place.
> This increases player engagement, it feels fair and rewarding and worth fighting for, it would be BIG.
>
> These are all my observations regarding BTB. Things I didn’t mention, like maps or game types I don’t have an issue with. And I think 343 did a great job on those regards (except the random flag spawns).
>
> Thanks for reading, please discuss.

i agree, i’ve had multiple times through the flight where i got my loot stolen by my teammates or the enemy because i can’t leave the area.