So I imagine one of two things happening. Either they make an expansion for Halo Infinite that will switch the engine from Slipspace to UR5 with a campaign element and improved multiplayer. Or, as another thought, they will abandon the 10 year plan altogether for Infinite in favor a brand new title that will do the same.
1 Like
Itās for the best. Most MS studios are working with Unreal at this point, it will make sharing workers and experience much easier, content production should be much much faster. Needing 6 months for a 4v4 arena map is complete nonsense. Overall, unless a studio has a lot of talented technical people making your own engine is a foolās errand. Spencer finally cleaning house is a good thing, a lot of mediocre managers floated around for way too long.
Iām interestedā¦ Theoretically, how difficult or time-consuming would it be to move an existing game from one engine to another (and if someone has more knowledge or experience on UE5, have Epic focused on tools to make that more convenient with the engine)?
I have very little knowledge on game engines and game development so, like seemingly pretty much everyone else, Iām more inclined to believe the switch to UE5 (assuming itās true) would mean an all-new game is in the works.
As said before, switching to UE5 is a giant step in the right direction. A) you have so many talented people already knowing the engine since Epicās great pricing/licensing policy. So even if 343 continues to rely on contractors (which is a crappy system and should be changed as well), they get staff up and running in no time.
B) You donāt need to care about technical stuff that much because you have epic taking care of it. But you can still develope inhouse tools.
To all the people worrying about the identity, especially when it comes to physics of the halo experience:
Especially as a big studio, you can still mimic those attributes, almost to a 100%.And to be fair: vehicles feel like crap anyway since 343 took over. Compared to H3 the warthog in BTB feels like a 200 pound elictric car.
IMO the best thing for the franchise would be to shut everything down for at least a year and reboot the whole thingā¦ including MP. Maybe put a new version of the MP in open beta to get feedback right away.
I donāt think they would be able to mimic Haloās physics. Great thread from a dev working with UE here: https://twitter.com/TechnicalHalo/status/1620615167687135232
IMO, the community should be worried if they switch to UE. Might kill Forge, and physics-based customs, and general feel of Halo will be damn hard to achieve because physics canāt be networked properly with UE the way it is in Haloās various versions of BLAM!.
Kind of want to expand upon why UEās physics are terrible for Halo here for people who donāt follow that link:
One of the biggest issues Infinite has faced, particularly MP, has been desync. Desync, generally, is a lack of cohesion between clients and the server - meaning the game state is not in agreement between them and this leads to things like player models not appearing in the same spot, and player projectiles and grenades, not appearing in the same spot. This is obviously bad.
Now, with UE using a non-deterministic physics engine, you basically get exactly the same results as Haloās current desync - but by design (Slipspace desync is a bug, UE desync is just how it works for physics). First, letās break down the terminology - a deterministic model will produce the same results every single time given the same set of input parameters. A non-deterministic model can, and will, produce different results given the same set of input parameters. Because of this, if, say, you start toppling a Jenga tower, you will get different results on the various clients. Or if you have a group of player models standing on a Warthog and something moves and one or more game clients disagrees on . Or if youāre playing coop and something explodes and sends objects flying, they go in different places and directions on the different game clients.
Now, Havok (which underlies Haloās BLAM! as the physics engine) is deterministic, but apparently has issues with networking perf when integrated with UE (sounds like the same mess Haloās in now, right?). Which, basically, means if Halo does in fact switch to UE, the below options are what would be available to make it feel like Halo:
Completely customize UEās native physics engine to be deterministic and network appropriately
Completely customize Havokās plugin and rework the plugin/engine to play nice
Cut game physics back and cut back Forge to work within UEās physics and object limitations
Personally, I donāt believe the first two are likely given the current size of the studio (an overhaul/customization of UE to do what Slipspace already does seems like a big lift) and I donāt want to play a Halo game that cuts physics and forge back to the point of being just another bog-standard UE game.
2 Likes
I cant blame 343 for that part only because Microsoft does that so they donāt have to pay full time employees and that means they donāt have to pay benefits and they get a tax credit for doing it this way. I donāt get how they donāt understand this is hurting the game by hiring temps every 2 years or 1 year(however long the contracts are)
Microsoft does use tricks and loopholes to keep contractors around long as possible. One contractor posted that they worked āoff siteā (work from home) during the contract cooldown period and then was brought back onsite after that. This contractor was around for ~5 years. I donāt think the contractor angle is as cut and dry as the community seems to think it is.
1 Like
MS needs to either dissolve 343 and christen 344 to start fresh, or give them the support they need by slaving some of their other studios to the Halo franchise. Gears of War is dormant, they are buying Activision and all of its support studios, Halo Wars 3 is in some far off future, and Fable is still dead, so what are Microsoft devs even doing right now? Why arenāt they consolidating what staff they DO have in order to make one good game at a time?
Iām sorry, what? Halo 4 was not a terrible game at all, stop being stuck in the past.
1 Like
Yes, please. Halo Infiniteās story needs to be completely retconned into PERMANENT NON-CANON STATUS so the franchise can actually have a chance at having a cohesive story again.
Can confirm though my friend at 343 that Tatanka is dead and 343 is moving to Unreal Engine.
1 Like
Itās gonna feel like trash and wonāt even feel like halo
If the switch to Unreal Engine does happen, itās most likely so they can keep using more soulless contract workers who have absolutely no ties to Halo and wonāt bother forming any because itās not worth the effort on their part. Microsoft is a complete disaster if they think firing some 343 employees will magically fix things. A ton of blame lies squarely on Microsoft and their hiring practices. Thereās a lot more involved in the development of a good video game than throwing lifeless bodies at it.
If they donāt care, they wonāt really try. Give them a reason to care, and you will get a better game from them.
2 Likes
It wonāt feel like Halo. Not to me (and most people who grew up on Halo 2/3, I think will feel that way) at least. It will feel like Halo 5, which was already clunky feeling to me, with added clunk cause itās UE.
The Halo 5 crowd will most likely love it. Or they could hate it because of how close to their beloved Halo 5 it is, but itās just not quite rightā¦ Itās off.
Sad day for Infiniteā¦
Weāll probably get some more Seasons of contentā¦ but thatās a fork in any resources to fix the problems in the game.
As in completely canned?
Sadder day for CA.
I really hope they can capture the feel of Halo.
I donāt play a lot of other FPS - but people are always talking about how UE games have a particular āfeelā.
And Iām gutted for the Forge team.
1 Like
Yes, the team is still experimenting with a battle royal but Tatanka is dead.
Letās hope thatās exactly what happens, the series needs a serious rework/reboot already.
You can tweek the physics in UE. Iām sure they can make it very close, if not identical. Just takes resources.
Devs can also add the ability to pre compile shaders. Again it just takes resources.
Maybe with all the resources they save not trying to fix a broken engine, they can make a good game with continuous content.
1 Like
You can tweak physics, but the problem is networking it for MP and coop, all while keeping the overall physicalized object count high (as we have come to expect from Halo) and keeping the game performant. This is where UE falls down - networking physics objects with the stock physics engine cannot produce good results like Haloās engine can, the Havok plugin for UE (reminder, Halo 2 to Halo Infinite use Havok as the basis for its physics) is not performant and has issues with networking, and this leaves a big lift for 343 to do a massive rewrite of UEās default physics engine or to completely overhaul the Havok physics engine plugin. Given that they arenāt interested in maintaining Slipspace, do you really think theyāll be interested in overhauling 3rd party stuff? IMO, I donāt think they will, and I think theyāll kill a lot of what makes Halo feel like Halo if they donāt.