Halo`s Fall From Grace

Now before I get started, I wanted to say, this is a fantastic game, I had never played a campaign so good that I actually felt really sad at the end, so freaking awesome. And the multiplayer is so nice. It’s certainly a huge step up from Reach.
But there are some problems for me. And most of them aren’t massive problems, it’s just a compilation of them all that really bogs it down for me.

I am a die-hard Halo fan, I will always be one. Its just how it will be for me, but I am at a point where I dont really want to play Halo 4 and I don`t really want to play Reach, so I might as well go outside. The last bit of that is a quote I got from reddit but I feel the same.

The statement,“A Diamon covered in feces” is a good analogy(it’s a long vid, skip to the last 15 mins or so for the recap).

The potential for Halo 4 is incredible, and fixable, but the Call of Duty-ization of the franchise isn’t sitting well with me. Now before you call BS on that statement, hear me out on this.

  • Halo 4 now has a loadout system akin to CoD. Complete with the ability to make sniper classes, anti-vehicle classes, and a variety of sub-classes.

  • Halo 4 now has mods which are very similar to perks, some are direct copies while others have a Halo-spin on them.

  • Instant respawns along with unbelievable kill times is just like CoD. I’m calling BS on this one for I can die before I can even react from two people instantly shooting at me. Part of that spawns from the extended radar.

  • A flinch system over de-scoping. Just like CoD, but for Halo it’s incredibly disruptive experience.

<mark>Now don’t get me wrong</mark>, Halo needed changes and a new fresh start, but I feel they went too far and took too much out to the point it doesn’t play the same.

In previous games, you normally knew when your enemy had a power weapon, knew when they were going to spawn and could normally discern the locations of enemies based on your teammates locations. And all the changes throws a wrench in the gears of matchmaking.

I was a fan of the loadout system from day one. It would take out of the age-old dispute over AR and BR game types. And I didn’t think much of the ability to choose any primary weapons for loadouts until I got my hands on the game and played it extensively.

I was under the assumption that weapons had a sort of circle of effectiveness starting from the player and moving outwards. AR starting from the beginning, then the BR, then the DMR.

If the DMR faced the BR in the BR’s area of effectivness, the BR had a better chance of winning. And vice versa for all weapons but in reality we got the zero bloom DMR from Reach which makes it DMR>Everything. You can literally out snipe a sniper with a DMR.

When you add that with a fully customizable loadout with any weapon, grenade and side weapon changes what Halo is for me because it alters some of the true blue Halo roots such as driving the Warthog.

I’m not kidding on this. I normally play in a team, and am normally matched up against a team. With that said, you won’t last more than 30 seconds with a slightly underpowered chaingun and about 4 over-charged plasma shots coming your way. When you add that to the unbelievable aim assist on the snipers and other weapons, you will be sniped out of the hog a lot of the time.

And when you take into account of the amount of snipers that can be found on any given game… It’s just… Blah.

And on certain Dominion games it gets to the point where it’s complete hell. Every game I have played on Vortex, whoever gets Bravo base wins the game, hands down. It’s neatly impossible to get through either of their bases after that because they are likely to have two binary rifles and two incineration cannons. What I’m trying to emphasize is that there are often way too many power weapons on many maps at any given moment, and some times there are not.

Now with all the said, I still love to play Halo 4, but sometimes it feels like I’m not playing the same game that I was playing 10 minutes ago. It’s hard to explain but it just feels off sometimes and you can see it in the score boards. On average my friends and I play quite well, but some nights it’s just lag and really bad game after game.

The last few things I want to talk about before Spartan Ops is Oddball. It’s just not the same, especially with instant respawns. There are games like on Haven where the holder will walk around the map and his teammates will progressively cut you off kill you, then they will be killed, all the while, the carrier keeps getting away, even if your team adjusts to the tactic, they just go the other way. And if you do manage to head them off, they either throw the ball off the map or across the map. The ball should reduce player speed by maybe 20%, be a tad heavier and thus can’t be thrown as far, and give penalties to being thrown out of bounds.

Now for Spartan Ops!

I freaking love the concept of Spartan Ops. It would have been a perfect replacement to Fire Fight.

But it feels like whoever was in charge of making it, spent all their money on CGI episodes and to supplement their project were given a cheap forge mission editor. And like, 4 maps to have 25 missions on (so far).

For the hype they you made for this, it’s a serious disappointment.

After the first two chapters and playing 10 missions, half of which were going to an objective and just shooting and blowing stuff up, you go backwards on the same maps is just sad for me.

And then it comes to the story. The plot strings connecting the missions to the episode or more like threads.

Half the time Palmer comes on the radio it’s basically <insert generic female macho line here>, <insert lame insult there>, <insert condescending congratulations>.

With how freaking amazing the campaign was, they should have given Spartan Ops more body and flavour than what it is now.

Finally, if you were to ask me what I think needs to be changed, I would say this:

  • Nerf Boltshot. I don’t feel we should spawn with a shotgun that’s more effective than the scattershot.

  • Lower the aim assist on the DMR and either make it slower or less accurate at extreme ranges.

  • Either make stickies 1 grenade per loadout or make frag and stickies 1 on loadout. I have literally seen like 5 or six grenades thrown at me from just two players.

  • No plasma pistol in loadouts in BTB and make them spawn on the maps themselves.

  • Drastically limit weapons in ordinance and put more emphasis on power ups and small arms power weapons like the needler and sticky detonator.

  • Make Camo either a power up or only obtainable in spawns on the map or ordinance.

  • Make the Ghost more stable, it flips way too easy right now and with players extreme jump height it’s too easy to avoid being splattered.

That’s all I can think of at this moment but feel free to bring up what I had missed.

Please make constructive comments even if they’re negative, mention what they have done right or some things that needs tweaked.

Another Halo Die-Hard here enjoying Halo 4. Just saying.

You’d rather go OUTSIDE than stay infront of your TV/Monitor playing a video game?!?!?!?!?

What has 343 done?!?!?!?!?

Seriously, quit -Yoinking!-, if you don’t like it, don’t play it. Problem solved.

> Seriously, quit -Yoinking!-, if you don’t like it, don’t play it. Problem solved.

Considering how this is a truly constructive thread, then considering your response, you sir, should leave and go back to CoD’s forums.

> > Seriously, quit -Yoinking!-, if you don’t like it, don’t play it. Problem solved.
>
> Considering how this is a truly constructive thread, then considering your response, you sir, should leave and go back to CoD’s forums.

Agreed, as far as threads go this is much more constructive then some.

Halo fell from grace, and landed on its face.

I agree. All these similarities to CoD people keep pointing out almost makes me want to go out and buy Blops 2.

I do think all issues with H4 are fixable as well, and that it has great potential.

However I just don’t see 343 doing it. I think they probably don’t have the resource to spend fixing the issues, and I imagine they are now focusing on Halo 5.

It’s a real shame that H4 didn’t give us, the players, the tools and options to fix the game ourselves. So not only is multiplayer broken but we can’t tweak it or improve it ourselves. Brilliant.

> - Halo 4 now has a loadout system akin to CoD. Complete with the ability to make sniper classes, anti-vehicle classes, and a variety of sub-classes.
>
> - Halo 4 now has mods which are very similar to perks, some are direct copies while others have a Halo-spin on them.
>
> - Instant respawns along with unbelievable kill times is just like CoD. I’m calling BS on this one for I can die before I can even react from two people instantly shooting at me. Part of that spawns from the extended radar.
>
> - A flinch system over de-scoping. Just like CoD, but for Halo it’s incredibly disruptive experience.

Halo 4 now has a loadout system akin to CoD. Complete with the ability to make sniper classes, anti-vehicle classes, and a variety of sub-classes.

I don’t see this as a bad thing. I know you justified your opinions in the thread, but with an entire new tier of weapons (Forunner), along with some new ones in general, I think a loadout system was the best way to appeal to everyone. If everyone started with an AR and scavenged the map for weapons like in Halo 3 (not Slayer BRs, of course), average sized maps wouldn’t be able to give people the gun they wanted due to the large number of weapons.

Halo 4 now has mods which are very similar to perks, some are direct copies while others have a Halo-spin on them.

In two first person shooters that feature a loadout system, there are bound to be similar perks. “Faster Reloading”, “Unlimited Sprint”, even “Carry 2 Primary Weapons” seem like perks that would have been emerged even if CoD didn’t exist.

Instant respawns along with unbelievable kill times is just like CoD. I’m calling BS on this one for I can die before I can even react from two people instantly shooting at me. Part of that spawns from the extended radar.

I don’t have much of a counterargument for this one. I do agree that there should be a 3 second respawn, but the Instant Respawn can increase pace of games. Since everyone sprint it seems like it would be a lot easier to lock down an enemy base if your allies can constantly stream in before enemies can come back to life. As for the kill times, this doesn’t seem like a comparison to CoD. If you’re outnumbered, then yeah, you’re going to go down quick.

A flinch system over de-scoping. Just like CoD, but for Halo it’s incredibly disruptive experience.

For the longest time in previous Halos, I had always hated that I came de-scoped after taking damage. However, not that it’s been replaced with flinch, I have to say I agree with you. I would take de-scoping over flinching any day.

Overall, you made some points I agreed with and some I didn’t, and the games have enough differences that I can’t fairly compare them.

I’ve been with this series since it’s launch, 11 years ago. I’ve put thousands of hours into it. I own some of the books, the art books, the encyclopedia, played the games both competitively and casually… It’s been 11 years.

Halo 4 is the most fun I’ve had with this series since Halo 2 released some 8 years ago. Bungie’s successive iterations on this series have been two steps forward & one step back. Each time. The options, online integration, storytelling, visuals, and customization options have all improved with each title, but the core gameplay has gotten worse and worse. Every. Single. One.

But anyways, since you took the time to make a constructive post I won’t just flame you.

1) Quit comparing this to Call of Duty. The game plays NOTHING like CoD. I know this, I own all three of the Modern Warfare titles. Halo 4 & CoD now share some features like Load-outs, a progression system, gameplay perks, kill-cams, and instant respawns… But that is it. The core game-play is wildly different.

2) Kill-times are slower than they were in Halo 2 & Combat Evolved. There are just more power weapons in play now. Halo 3 & Reach’s ridiculously long kill-times were a huge detriment to the series, lowering the skill ceiling in the process. It takes 1.4 seconds to 5-shot somebody with the DMR, kill times in CoD are less than half a second. Hardly comparable.

3) Instant re-spawns are good for Slayer games, not so great for objective. Increases the pace of play and makes the larger maps feel less empty. Both of which are good.

4) Flinching system is annoying… Only way to get around it is the Stability mod.

I can still tell where people are going to spawn based on my & my teammates locations… The BR & DMR kill-time discrepency is annoying… But no, you CAN’T out-snipe somebody who has an actual Sniper Rifle… Unless they can’t in fact actually, you know, snipe?

Vehicles have always been crappy at higher-level play. Either crappy or wildly over-powered. The ability to carry Plasma Pistols actually gives you a fighting chance, instead of being endlessly screwed while you’re on foot. The vehicles are still deadly, you just have to be more cautions and smarter with your movement. And for the record, the Warthog’s standard chain-gun has ALWAYS sucked.

Sniping is more difficult than it was in Reach, similar to H3… GO back to H2 and THEN you can tell me sniping is easy.

Spartan Ops first two episodes are crap, the 3rd & 4th are actually fun. The writing is bad and Sara Palmer needs to die due to her stupidity, which she puts on display for everyone to see.

halo fall from grace IMO squarely fall on halo legends dvd- my goodness did you see the Dragon ball z spartan fighting the dinosaur? that right there was the decent. As for the game, it’s nothing that a patch cant fix.

> Another Halo Die-Hard here enjoying Halo 4. Just saying.

I’m loving it too. I could not really stand Reach any longer, but I’ve traded one devil for another. But luckily we may have some real good patches coming.

People just need to wake up smell the coffee seriously.

343 does NOT care what kind of game they make, and they do not give a -Yoink- how long people play it. They are going to make money no matter what, because as long as there is Halo in the title it will sell.

Anyone who says this game does not play like COD or isn’t similar to other shooters is in denial. I didn’t want a copy/paste of Halo 3, but I didn’t want numerous changes that just make this game super similar to all other fps console games.

Typical response from people who deny this: “Yup it just doesn’t play like COD or other games it just doesn’t.” Even after they have added so many features from other games that Halo never had, and that did NOT make it POPULAR in the first place! Halo became popular because it was the only COMPETITIVE fps available on console. It was competitive because it was balanced.

It doesn’t matter how constructive you are, or how well your argument is stated, they will always deny everything and say this is still halo. This game is just watered down and generic in my opinion, and I know a lot of people that agree with me.

All you have to do is look at the PATHETIC population to realize how many people have already stopped playing this game 2.5 weeks after release.

I didn’t read all of the post as i was disagreeing heavily with a lot of what you were stating. So ill just reply to what you want addressed.

Nerf Boltshot. I don’t feel we should spawn with a shotgun that’s more effective than the scattershot.
<mark>A range redcution to about half the melee lunge difference would make it more fair.</mark>
Lower the aim assist on the DMR and either make it slower or less accurate at extreme ranges.
<mark>I have no quams with the DMR it self but rather how people play with it. I feel since its a playstyle issue and not a gun issue itself ther can be no fix without making it useless or other weapons useless.</mark>
Either make stickies 1 grenade per loadout or make frag and stickies 1 on loadout. I have literally seen like 5 or six grenades thrown at me from just two players.
<mark>thats because there is a perk that lets you add an extra nade. I find this to be ok since your giving up some other pretty useful Tactical packages.</mark>
No plasma pistol in loadouts in BTB and make them spawn on the maps themselves.
<mark>As of right now this is annoying. But once the game has been around for awhile people will start running wheelman in BTB making PP users less of an actual threat.</mark>
Drastically limit weapons in ordinance and put more emphasis on power ups and small arms power weapons like the needler and sticky detonator.
<mark>Most of the power weapons you can obtain VIA personeel drops have 1-3 out of 10 chance to show. You cannot lower it anymore then it already is.</mark>
Make Camo either a power up or only obtainable in spawns on the map or ordinance.
<mark>Pro vision is a direct counter to AC. Its fine as a load out.</mark>
Make the Ghost more stable, it flips way too easy right now and with players extreme jump height it’s too easy to avoid being splattered.
<mark>i agree on the flipping.</mark>

> > - Halo 4 now has a loadout system akin to CoD. Complete with the ability to make sniper classes, anti-vehicle classes, and a variety of sub-classes.
> >
> > - Halo 4 now has mods which are very similar to perks, some are direct copies while others have a Halo-spin on them.
> >
> > - Instant respawns along with unbelievable kill times is just like CoD. I’m calling BS on this one for I can die before I can even react from two people instantly shooting at me. Part of that spawns from the extended radar.
> >
> > - A flinch system over de-scoping. Just like CoD, but for Halo it’s incredibly disruptive experience.

> Halo 4 now has a loadout system akin to CoD. Complete with the ability to make sniper classes, anti-vehicle classes, and a variety of sub-classes.
>
> I don’t see this as a bad thing. I know you justified your opinions in the thread, but with an entire new tier of weapons (Forunner), along with some new ones in general, I think a loadout system was the best way to appeal to everyone. If everyone started with an AR and scavenged the map for weapons like in Halo 3 (not Slayer BRs, of course), average sized maps wouldn’t be able to give people the gun they wanted due to the large number of weapons.

My main beef with the loadout system is the Boltshot, Stickies and Plasma Pistol. I had always hated being forced to play AR’s on maps which were better suited for longer range weapons.

And my problems with the Stickies and Plasma Pistol are that they really put a damper on using Warthogs. I kid you not, if I played BTB and played 20 games in one night and recorded every time I go in a 'hog. We’d be lucky to last more than 2 minutes and 80% of what will kill me is a PP and sticky combo.

> Halo 4 now has mods which are very similar to perks, some are direct copies while others have a Halo-spin on them.
>
> In two first person shooters that feature a loadout system, there are bound to be similar perks. “Faster Reloading”, “Unlimited Sprint”, even “Carry 2 Primary Weapons” seem like perks that would have been emerged even if CoD didn’t exist.

You are right, and for the most part I don’t mind them, they’re fine, the only one I don’t like is ‘Explosives’. And the Ammo one is a tad OP when it comes to power weapons in my opinion. I was just using them as a reference to how much of CoD I see in Halo.

> Instant respawns along with unbelievable kill times is just like CoD. I’m calling BS on this one for I can die before I can even react from two people instantly shooting at me. Part of that spawns from the extended radar.
>
> I don’t have much of a counterargument for this one. I do agree that there should be a 3 second respawn, but the Instant Respawn can increase pace of games. Since everyone sprint it seems like it would be a lot easier to lock down an enemy base if your allies can constantly stream in before enemies can come back to life. As for the kill times, this doesn’t seem like a comparison to CoD. If you’re outnumbered, then yeah, you’re going to go down quick.

I do agree Halo needed to be sped up, but instant respawns wasn’t the way to go. Being able to be in a fight, die, respawn and kill the guy that just killed you before their shields come back is just wrong in my books.

And for me when I said kill times, 1v1 it’s about the same in most games if they just stood still and shot each other. But 2v1 you’re looking at instant death.

I will use an example of Haven. If you are at bottom middle and round a corner looking at any ramp and there are two guys looking at you with DMR. You just signed your own death warrant. You are dead .9 seconds no matter what.

Those types of scenarios can happen often because of the increased radar, the mod that further increases the radar, or Vision.

And it more comes down to the accuracy of the weapons over kill times, because if you put me in that scenario in any other Halo game I’d be able to instantly see that’s a no-win scenario and maybe have about a 60% chance of getting around the corner that I just came from with no shields, forcing my attackers to push.

It’s just promoting more camping the way I see it because with the ordinance now, people can literally stay put on some maps on spawn and just 5 shot people and never move. (Complex as an example).

> A flinch system over de-scoping. Just like CoD, but for Halo it’s incredibly disruptive experience.
>
> For the longest time in previous Halos, I had always hated that I came de-scoped after taking damage. However, not that it’s been replaced with flinch, I have to say I agree with you. I would take de-scoping over flinching any day.

Yeah, I didn’t like being de-scoped either, it’s disruptive but it lets you fight back more effectively than flinch. I die way too often from flinching, I find when I’m doing the chicken dance, I’d prefer to die than to try and fight through it.

Best way to fix it I feel is remove it from standard player traits, if people want it, they can get it back through the mod that reduces flinch.

> Overall, you made some points I agreed with and some I didn’t, and the games have enough differences that I can’t fairly compare them.

Thanks for your response, it was well brought up and articulate. I hope you have a good evening/day and happy gaming.

> I didn’t read all of the post as i was disagreeing heavily with a lot of what you were stating. So ill just reply to what you want addressed.

> Nerf Boltshot. I don’t feel we should spawn with a shotgun that’s more effective than the scattershot.
> <mark>A range redcution to about half the melee lunge difference would make it more fair.</mark>

I’d say make it loader for a charge up so I know what’s coming, decrease its range as you said and maybe make it one charge per clip.

> Lower the aim assist on the DMR and either make it slower or less accurate at extreme ranges.
> <mark>I have no quams with the DMR it self but rather how people play with it. I feel since its a playstyle issue and not a gun issue itself ther can be no fix without making it useless or other weapons useless.</mark>

I can’t get over the mini-sniper we spawn with. It’s too easy to easily 5-shot kill someone with it at any range. And I have out sniped people many times with the DMR vs Sniper.

<mark>Either make stickies 1 grenade per loadout or make frag and stickies 1 on loadout. I have literally seen like 5 or six grenades thrown at me from just two players.</mark>
<mark><mark>thats because there is a perk that lets you add an extra nade. I find this to be ok since your giving up some other pretty useful Tactical packages.</mark></mark>
<mark>No plasma pistol in loadouts in BTB and make them spawn on the maps themselves.</mark>
<mark><mark>As of right now this is annoying. But once the game has been around for awhile people will start running wheelman in BTB making PP users less of an actual threat.</mark></mark>

I was aware they were using the mod for this, but it brings us to the Reach problem with grenades and stickies are a tad too useful to have 2 of them on spawn. And I know the Wheelman mod will come into play soon. I’m about to have it, but for me, it’s not enough, the chaingun is too underpowered to do anything more than be a nuisance that will be dealt with shortly after everyone pulls out their PP.

> Drastically limit weapons in ordinance and put more emphasis on power ups and small arms power weapons like the needler and sticky detonator.
> <mark>Most of the power weapons you can obtain VIA personeel drops have 1-3 out of 10 chance to show. You cannot lower it anymore then it already is.</mark>

By reduce I pretty much meant remove SAW, UNSC Shotgun, all sniper and rockets.

I get ordinance drops about 2 times a game, and of those times, 70% of the time I get either a Saw, shotgun or sniper. More so Saw than anything else, but still they’re still extremely powerful, it’s more or less a gun that kills in about a second.

> Make Camo either a power up or only obtainable in spawns on the map or ordinance.
> <mark>Pro vision is a direct counter to AC. Its fine as a load out.</mark>

Ok, it’s not a viable counter though. You can’t see someone camo’d through anything. Give it a try. And on top of that, you can’t really ping them with your vision at long ranges while they have a sniper (which is one of the main problems).

> Make the Ghost more stable, it flips way too easy right now and with players extreme jump height it’s too easy to avoid being splattered.
> <mark>i agree on the flipping.</mark>

Glad we could agree on something! Lol.

> halo fall from grace IMO squarely fall on halo legends dvd- my goodness did you see the Dragon ball z spartan fighting the dinosaur? that right there was the decent. As for the game, it’s nothing that a patch cant fix.

I rather liked Halo Legends. I didn’t like all the animation styles but I did like what they tried to do. And I do like some anime which is probably why I didn’t hate it as much as most.

I just think if they made another one it should be more series, maybe made to have a longer story and longer episodes per DVD and a unified animation style that looks very nice.

> > > Seriously, quit -Yoink-, if you don’t like it, don’t play it. Problem solved.
> >
> > Considering how this is a truly constructive thread, then considering your response, you sir, should leave and go back to CoD’s forums.
>
> Agreed, as far as threads go this is much more constructive then some.
>
> Halo fell from grace, and landed on its face.

It can still get up and dust itself off. I just feel we were let down big time.

We needed a beta forever ago just to fix the server issues and holes in the maps along with the weapon balancing act.