Halo Reach's Legacy and Halo 4's Destiny

I decided to make a forum about a post that was deleted due to trolling about a month ago. Please do not turn this into Reach/stat rage, just debate the topic:
What will be Halo Reach’s Legacy and What is Halo 4 destined to become?

Recently I had a forum buddy post:
"CEA is going to function as a life support until Halo4 hits.
That’s when the plugs going to be pulled on Reach."

These are my personal beliefs on the topic:

I doubt it.
People always hate new stuff.
Im not going to forsake reach, and I doubt a lot of people will be “thrilled” with halo 4;
I say this because:
Make it too competitive (super utility weapon “BR” / no vehicles) -
competitive will worship it and make it a corner stone of MLG
casuals will hate it and destroy the population (20000 to 30000)

Make it too casual (cater to 'living dead/social kids", make game modes like “swat” with assault rifles and shotguns as starts and add a ridiculous amount of gun customization and variation)
DOES ANYONE REALIZE HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE WOULD PLAY HALO IF CRAP LIKE KILLSTREAKS OR PERKS (SHIELD STRENGTH, 4 SHOT DMR PERK) WERE ADDED?
pros will hate it, and among the competitive halo community: halo will be dead.
casuals will add this to their social playground where MW3 will currently reside. this will no doubt tripple/quad the population (possibly even 500000 people online at a time)

Make it in between:
nostalgic kids will rage about it being too different from “halo 2/3’s competitive nature” or not having "halo reachs fun feel"
This is the most likely destiny of halo 4. Kids will rage on “forerunner slayer” and praise halo reach.

There is no way to please a fan base as large as halo’s.
Reach has done an excellent job, but just look at its MINOR flaws, and you can see how easy people forget what has been fixed:
People hate:
Bloom
AA - jetpack/armorlock
“bad maps”
noobs on your team

People forgot:
halo 3’s GARBAGE MAPS - sandbox vairants, construct, isolation, standoff, foundry
BR spread
cheaters/modders (halo 2 anyone?)
boosters
3 bullet AR beatdown
dual wielding
derankers on your team
old veto system (in doubles = "slayer epitaph/crappy sandbox variant + veto = oddball construct)

See what I mean?

I personally think reach will go down as a great halo game, and halo 4 will get some hate, but in the long run will be a great addition to the halo franchise as well.
I also do not think reach will be a ghost town after halo 4. However, it may befall halo 3’s fate and become a land of foreign hosts.

What are your thoughts on the topic?

> Make it too competitive (super utility weapon “BR” / no vehicles) -
> competitive will worship it and make it a corner stone of MLG
> casuals will hate it and destroy the population (20000 to 30000)

Haha, funny. Casual players CAN enjoy a competitive game. coughHalo 2 and 3cough

You can actually make a game that is in-between casual, competitive, and nostalgic, and satisfy the majorities of those three kinds of gamers. The key is that the game has to not mostly suck.

I agree that games should be made for everyone, but i hope we don’t get a 100% casual game again(Reach).
Also competitive games can be played casually, not the other way around.

No, Halo should stay unique. Turing it into another CoD clone wont help increase players.

How many shooters that have come out and tried to emulate CoD’s success are still being played? Zero. How many people play Homefront, or Crysis or whatever? Hardly any. Yet Halo is still getting 500k individual players a day. Players wont leave Call of Duty to play a Call of Duty clone.

Keep Halo the way it is. An arena/weapon pick up, skill based shooter. The series needs to attract new players by the merit of it’s own unique gameplay.

Call of Duty will ALWAYS have more players, because kids don’t have the patience to get good at a game that requires skill. They are content to sit back and watch AI controlled helicopters get all their kills for them.

> No, Halo should stay unique. Turing it into another CoD clone wont help increase players.
>
> How many shooters that have come out and tried to emulate CoD’s success are still being played? Zero. How many people play Homefront, or Crysis or whatever? Hardly any. Yet Halo is still getting 500k individual players a day. Players wont leave Call of Duty to play a Call of Duty clone.
>
> Keep Halo the way it is. An arena/weapon pick up, skill based shooter. The series needs to attract new players by the merit of it’s own unique gameplay.
>
> Call of Duty will ALWAYS have more players, because kids don’t have the patience to get good at a game that requires skill. They are content to sit back and watch AI controlled helicopters get all their kills for them.

Exactly.

Every time a series I was formerly a fan of COD-ifies to try and reach a wider audience, it usually doesn’t get that audience, and the old fans like me always leave in disgust.

If Halo COD-ifies, the result will be the same. CEA would be my final Halo.

> > Make it too competitive (super utility weapon “BR” / no vehicles) -
> > competitive will worship it and make it a corner stone of MLG
> > casuals will hate it and destroy the population (20000 to 30000)
>
> Haha, funny. Casual players CAN enjoy a competitive game. coughHalo 2 and 3cough

Halo 2 was before CoD, when the only viable option was halo. And halo 3 was a crappy game, one of the only reasons MW2 sold as well as it did.

It is possible to have a game that garners to all, both competitive and casual gamers alike.

Look at Halo 3, which had a strong foundation in competitive play and well supported by MLG, as well as having an established foundation in social environments for casual gamers. It’s not impossible, actually, it’s not that difficult.

The “plug” won’t be pulled on Reach, it simply won’t receive as much support because it’ll be a dated game by the time Halo 4 is released. Same happened to Halo 3, support diminished when it became dated. That’s how the gaming industry works.

I stand by the idea of “if you don’t like a game, don’t play it. If you like it, play it”. Too many people look far to deeply into statistics and populations, averages and mechanics, just let them develop the game. We’re not the ones developing Halo 4. Let 343i do what they do best.

Design by committee never works. Just let Halo be Halo. Everyone has a grandiose idea about what would make the perfect Halo game, but no one really knows for sure. No one. To start off the conversation by dividing the community into casual and competitive players does the game no good. Before one design element or game mechanic is even discussed you’ve already introduced all the evils inherent in a bi-partisan atmosphere. You’re a Halo fan first and foremost. Not a casual or competitive. Labeling as such just sets the stage for guaranteed conflict.

Just look at H3. Does anyone remember the forum back in the day? There seems to be a lot that people forgot. To figure out how Reach became to be, look no further than there. Every element in Reach came from somewhere. The history of Reach can be told just by looking at some of the more pressing reoccurring issues and topics in the H3 forum. A lot of the new elements came from there. They were certainly listening. They’re listening now. This is why I contend that design by committee never works. Maybe they shouldn’t be listening as much.

Now, one could argue that the problem was not in addressing the problems, but in the implementation of the fixes. Point taken. But they listened, didn’t they? They tried to fix that thing that you hate. And in trying to fix it, maybe they created a new thing for you to hate even more. That’s why I say they should just stop listening. Just let Halo be Halo.

For me reach will cease to be my primary game when 4 comes out,but I beleive it will hang around on the top 30 live games for ahwile as it is a great game,despite the constant complaining.In my opinion a limited amount of playlist that has a casual/competitive version appears to be what will make people the happiest.That being said I dont think that having as many playlist as reach has while splitting into two varients will work.
Taking what population dispersals we see in reach and not necessarily eliminating game types but perhaps grouping together,I think that a reduced amount of options combined with a ranked version for each will please the most players.These playlist do not define players and their competitiveness,just their desire to play a game with modified parameter.If there was a ranked version for each,then all would benifit as it allows those that wish to compare there skills with others to compete with like minded individuals and those that dont to play for fun.

Well I hope that Halo 4 will have the best of both worlds of Halo 3 and Reach.
But if you ask me, I think MS should make it a launch title for the next XBox console whenever that may be.

lol

Reach will be remembered as the St. Anger of Halo.

And

> Also competitive games can be played casually, not the other way around.

> Reach will be remembered as the St. Anger of Halo.
>
> And
>
>
>
> > Also competitive games can be played casually, not the other way around.

I had no idea what you meant by St. Anger…
I looked it up and got some metallika stuff, I read the articles. I guess you meant “out with a bang” am I right?

> > Reach will be remembered as the St. Anger of Halo.
> >
> > And
> >
> >
> >
> > > Also competitive games can be played casually, not the other way around.
>
> I had no idea what you meant by St. Anger…
> I looked it up and got some metallika stuff, I read the articles. I guess you meant “out with a bang” am I right?

I might be able to help on this one rey,st anger is considered metallica’s worst album by those that are fans of the group.Thus the comparison between reach and st anger.(side note:they all sucked after cliff died coolnamebro)

> > > Reach will be remembered as the St. Anger of Halo.
> > >
> > > And
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Also competitive games can be played casually, not the other way around.
> >
> > I had no idea what you meant by St. Anger…
> > I looked it up and got some metallika stuff, I read the articles. I guess you meant “out with a bang” am I right?
>
> I might be able to help on this one rey,st anger is considered metallica’s worst album by those that are fans of the group.Thus the comparison between reach and st anger.(side note:they all sucked after cliff died coolnamebro)

I see, he is implying that halo reach will go down as a mistake…
I respectfully disagree.

> > > Make it too competitive (super utility weapon “BR” / no vehicles) -
> > > competitive will worship it and make it a corner stone of MLG
> > > casuals will hate it and destroy the population (20000 to 30000)
> >
> > Haha, funny. Casual players CAN enjoy a competitive game. coughHalo 2 and 3cough
>
> Halo 2 was before CoD, when the only viable option was halo. And halo 3 was a crappy game, one of the only reasons MW2 sold as well as it did.

Three words, Medal of Honor.

> > > > Reach will be remembered as the St. Anger of Halo.
> > > >
> > > > And
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Also competitive games can be played casually, not the other way around.
> > >
> > > I had no idea what you meant by St. Anger…
> > > I looked it up and got some metallika stuff, I read the articles. I guess you meant “out with a bang” am I right?
> >
> > I might be able to help on this one rey,st anger is considered metallica’s worst album by those that are fans of the group.Thus the comparison between reach and st anger.(side note:they all sucked after cliff died coolnamebro)
>
> I see, he is implying that halo reach will go down as a mistake…
> I respectfully disagree.

You are correct,and I disagree as well but perhaps not as respectfully LOL.

MW2 and BO have distinct communities and a partial community that wanders between both.

If more players loved/liked Halo3 than Reach or MW2 or BO, they’d be playing Halo3 right now.

The players that DO like Halo3 over Reach do play Halo3. Those that prefer MW2 and BO are those that prefer playing it more than Halo3 or Halo: Reach.

Have to wait about a month to 2 to find out how the BO and MW2 players enjoy MW3. It is quite possible to end up with 3 CoDs at the top and 3 very distinct communities.
And ya know what? That’s how its been on the PC for any franchise for years.

Halo: Reach has sold about as much, if not more, units than Resistance3 and KZ3 combined. As a console exclusive franchise, Halo is loved first for its campaign, second for its MP. That is why even after a Beta that showed off how much Halo’s gameplay was going to change and not change, it still has sold over 8million copies.

The level of casualness is what determines a game’s population over XBL. CoD allows players to drop in and out of games at will, has the majority of its games without friendly fire, allows every weapon to kill with a headshot (yet remain somewhat niche’d, all weapons classes are utility in a manner, some weapons are more niche-specific than others. It’s the most “utility” of each weapon-class that is the most popular), AND the game tells you every 30 seconds that you’ve unlocked something.

So gameplay-wise, how Halo moves forward won’t really determine its population. How it handles its population will.
Ranked games need to remain with the current model of matchmaking. These will be few and perhaps only the most hardcore groups/list. But ya know what? Grifball goes here just as much as MLG.
Unranked games need to go the way of CoD/GoW and allow drop in and out play. Players who are getting their -Yoinks!- kicked need to be able to drop out and find a new room quickly. That way they don’t feel punished the way the matchmaking system can for the casual players that make up large populations.
At no point do I mean Ranked and Unranked is the same as Social. While SWAT and Snipers can be ranked, they need not be until enough interest is put into them being so.
Action Sack can be said to be Social, but BTB is not.

Read this in another forum, and I think this holds true here.

> Posted by: An average gamer
> I think through this discussion you are missing the bigger point here. People aren’t leaving Halo because of a lack of anything. Not everybody abides to your personal checklist of what a game needs to be enjoyable. Halo has always offered its own style of gameplay which Reach is similar to. It is simply not what the people want anymore. It’s not the series which changed so much as the people’s desires. This can happen, has happened, and does happen. Don’t blame the individual game for failing when dozens of others haven’t taken down the new giant yet either. Call of Duty’s styles are what people want now and changing a franchise to be different from what it has always been to simply mimic the current champion will alienate everybody.