Halo Reach was a testing ground for Destiny?

Quick History recap. Bungie starts Halo out as a Macintosh computer exclusive. Microsoft buys Bungie and Halo is the poster child of Xbox. (Greatest thing ever!) Bungie creates a brilliant trilogy in Halo 1-3 and Bungie wants to walk away from Halo and pursue their new venture Destiny. But Microsoft has Bungie contracted for 2 more Halo games and so Bungie quickly makes ODST, however by this point they know their next game after Microsofts contract runs out is Destiny, hint the “Destiny Awaits” Easter Egg in ODST. Everybody caught up? Ok here goes my conspiracy theory…

"Bungie left us with a game that was a disservice to the history of the franchise in a lot of ways." - Sundance DiGiovanni

They used Reach as an experiment for Destiny’s future. They knew they were going to make Destiny at this time so they used Reach as a social experiment without any regard to caring about Halo fans. They did this by adding: create a Spartan by choosing a gender and then customizing them with armor, Sprint, AA’s, Load outs, Challenges, a time played ranking system, Firefight gameplay style… All this crud that they are basically now using in Destiny one way or another. Non of that stuff was in the previous 3 Halo games. Bungie used Halo Reach and the Halo community as guinea pigs to test out their new ideas for their game Destiny.

343 blindly built Halo 4 off of Halo Reach and the shambles that Bungie left them with. However, I truly believe 343 has seen the mistakes made of the past titles. I’m so optimistic about Halo 5 and it’s potential!

Gonna have to disagree with you. I believe that Bungie really wanted to make a great Halo game. Say what you want about Reach, but it’s obvious that a lot of care went into it - all for us. I just think they went a little overboard with trying to make it “special.” It’s the same mistake that 343 would eventually make with Halo 4: adding in elements from other games (namely the ever-popular Call of Duty) thinking that they would work well with and improve the existing gameplay.

Reach was Bungie’s loving goodbye to the Halo series, and I seriously doubt that it was used as a test bed for Destiny’s features, at least not in a truly significant way.

I’m not going to pretend to make Bungie out to be as innocent. But your “conspiracy theory” is funny. The evil empire known as Bungie decided that Reach was going to be a test for another game, similarly sticking the finger up at fans, and MS alike, and therefore deliberately create an abomination - MWAHAHAHA!!!

Okay, on the serious side, i’d say you’re right to some extent. I fully believe that Bungie didn’t try with Reach at all. It really did seem like they were bored with their jobs at the time, and so, sloppily put together the last game that they had to make for Halo, EVER! And give the middle finger to MS at the same time, even though they were bound by contract.

About using Reach as a test, its not unheard of. Every game developer tries out, or tests features in an old game to see how well received it is, and then reinvent it, improve it, or just plain scrap it in the next game, new franchise, or not. In any case, i’ve heard through multiple sources that Destiny isn’t doing very well, particularly in the story department. That comes as no surprise after Halo 3 and Reach though.

My conclusion, either Bungie has become too Activision-ified in the recent years, or they were never good storytellers to begin with, and Halo CE + 2 were flukes. whatever the scenario, i’m not getting Destiny. Doesn’t interest me, at all.

I can see it, myself. I’ve spent anywhere from six to sixteen hours with Destiny at this point (depending on if we’re counting time spent playing the Beta) and I remember thinking to myself at multiple points that some of Destiny’s design choices at least seemed to inform Halo: Reach’s design. A lot of the Guardians’ powers reminds me of Armor Abilities in Halo: Reach - secret weapons in the back pocket that are on a recharge timer. Of course, Bungie had to find a way to flesh out equipment from Halo 3, but I strongly suspect that Destiny helped inform the route Bungie took.

Some of the environments are so strikingly similar to those found in Halo: Reach, too. One of my first thoughts when looking at some mountains in the distance on the Cosmodrome was that the horizon line seemed so reminiscent of the horizons in Long Night of Solace and/or New Alexandria. Also visually, some of the Guardian armor reminds me of the more exotic pieces of MJOLNIR from Halo: Reach - that camouflage netting on the Scout armor reminds me of the Hunter cloak, Emile’s skull carving reminds me of some of the personality in Destiny’s armor, the extra wrist protection and leg packs are kind of similar to the Hunter’s cloaks, the Titan’s marks, etc. I don’t know which game informed which as far as armor goes.

I also found what I feel is some answer to Bungie’s radical departure from the Ranked and Social partitions from Halo 3 in Halo: Reach through Destiny. The Crucible in Destiny is some of the most pure multiplayer you’re going to get - no ranking system, no Custom Games, no Private Matches, no Forge. Just three gametypes (King of the Hill, Team Deathmatch, and Free-For-All) and a bit of Guardian killing. This definitely reminded me of Halo: Reach’s de-emphasis on the competitive aspect of multiplayer - Bungie doesn’t want people to seriously compete; they just want people to play. It’s less about infrastructure and more about just pure gameplay. It’s a silly design choice for them to have stripped the multiplayer so bare, but the result is that the Crucible feels like a natural extension of Destiny and its lore, instead of the pure spectacle of Halo multiplayer. It makes me wonder if this was informing their decisions in Halo: Reach.

It’s also worth noting what is radically different between Halo: Reach and Destiny. For one thing, Halo: Reach tells a tight, well-paced narrative that focuses on actual characters and emotional cutscenes. There’s a weight to everything in the Campaign. Destiny’s campaign and story have almost no weight. Because of the social aspects of the game, there is no pacing - everything is really fluid and shallow. The plotline is paper thin with almost no real structure or characters. It’s all hazy. So where Destiny went down the more massively multiplayer open story pacing, Halo: Reach was downright classic linear Halo storytelling.

The multiplayer infrastructure was simply much more superior in Halo: Reach, too. Destiny’s grand stall of a whopping three game modes available to play with no Custom Games or Private Matches simply doesn’t hold a candle to the breadth of Halo: Reach’s multiplayer content. From Forge maps to the “fun” gametypes like Halo Ball or Chess, Halo: Reach simply was the peak of infrastructure in Halo multiplayer. So much content was organized and accessible and even creatable so easily. This is completely unlike Destiny.

So while I think Destiny informed some of Halo: Reach’s design decisions to a minor degree, especially after actually playing it, I do think Halo: Reach was still more informed by older Halo games. The structure of the game indicates that - the partitions between each mode, the tight narrative story, the huge amount of multiplayer content, etc.

Me and a couple of co-workers were literally talking about this the other day.

I don’t think it’s that hard to sort out a conspiracy based on the premise that a game developer has similar features in two of its own games. It’s not some secret.

What about GTA and Red Dead? I need my tin foil hat for this one.

And of course Reach was a testing ground. Combat Evolved was a testing ground. Marathon was a testing ground. Whether it works or not determines what kind of game you make next.

I don’t think it’s coincidence that a lot of Destiny’s features (such as Armor Abilities and cooldowns) made it into Destiny. I can’t think of any other reason why they would create a game as bad as Halo: Reach if not because they wanted to make a class-based game and were experimenting with ideas.

No, Reach was just a game that suffered from lack of love. Bungie didn’t care, they had better things. 343 didn’t care, it wasn’t there child. Halo Reach could have been a lot better, but both companies didn’t care.

Proof: Very lazy and bad level design by Bungie (copy and past campaign levels as multiplayer levels). Playlists were culled by 343 when Halo 4 released (though their decisions with the Halo 4 playlists really make me question whether they can make good decisions with playlists or not).

Yes the good ideas that were poorly implemented in Reach were fixed in Destiny. But they could have always done that, they just didn’t care.

Weren’t there Destiny Easter Eggs in ODST? Bungie had been planning Destiny LONG before its release.

Bungie loves to cross reference series in each game they produce, it’s like all that really is. Heh, Halo Combat Evolved is like Marathon in opposite day.

I’ve always thought Halo; Reach is a good game, but a very poor Halo game.

I really did see it as a test for Destiny after Destiny’s announcement and seeing the gameplay. Haven’t played Destiny yet but I’m not at all surprised by the comparisons.

That said I still plan to get Destiny when I get an Xbox One.

I haven’t played Destiny at all so my opinion probably won’t amount to much. But I’ve become quite disillusioned in Destiny and Bungie as a whole due to what I’ve learnt. From what I’ve heard of Destiny’s sterile storytelling and uninspired gameplay, It’s clear that Bungie’s new game won’t make up for the recent mistakes of the Halo series – Destiny has it’s own endemic problems.

As for Bungie, in recent years they’ve become quite shrill and corporate. This is evidenced by:

This isn’t the same Bungie that we’ve known and loved. And I doubt they have the capacity to make games of consistent quality to their previous ones.

> No, Reach was just a game that suffered from lack of love. Bungie didn’t care, they had better things. 343 didn’t care, it wasn’t there child. Halo Reach could have been a lot better, but both companies didn’t care.
>
> Proof: Very lazy and bad level design by Bungie (copy and past campaign levels as multiplayer levels). Playlists were culled by 343 when Halo 4 released (though their decisions with the Halo 4 playlists really make me question whether they can make good decisions with playlists or not).
>
> Yes the good ideas that were poorly implemented in Reach were fixed in Destiny. But they could have always done that, they just didn’t care.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion that Halo 4 was half–Yoinked!- in the same way that Halo: Reach felt. Halo 4 at least tried to take the franchise to new and better places. Instead of playing it safe or seemingly testing out gameplay mechanics for future projects as Bungie did in Halo: Reach, 343i tried to advance the storytelling, design and experiences of the Halo series.

Even with all of it’s mistakes (and there are a lot), Halo 4 was a hundred times more ambitious than Halo: Reach. I think Reach was by far the dullest Halo title in scope and it felt as though they had grown tired of the Halo series. And what’s more I feel a lot of the mistakes that 343i made in Halo 4 were caused by the direction Bungie had left the Halo franchise in and by the success of other shooters on the market, like Call of Duty.

It’s hard to ignore the success of Call of Duty among casual gamers and not want to apply that success to Halo. Unbeknownst to 343i, these mechanics would not advance Halo’s gameplay positively or introduce many new fans to the series, because there’s no reason for fans of CoD to play a CoD-like Halo when they can just play CoD. And it appears that Bungie did not learn from this given what I’ve heard about Destiny’s appeal to a casual gaming experience.

If anything, I have a lot of confidence in 343i to redeem the Halo series and bring it back to the near-quality of the first three Halo games. The Master Chief Collection and news of the removal of Halo 4’s broken gameplay features are a sure sign that 343i has listened to us and wish to bring back what made Halo great. I don’t doubt that 343i have a passion for Halo and wish to see it succeed.

I think it was an idea Bungie had that they wanted to use and try out but I wouldn’t go as far as saying Reach was a testing ground for Destiny.

Guys, I don’t think it’s really fair to say that little care went into making Halo Reach.

We got varied campaign gameplay (even if the actual story wasn’t very consistent), a new and improved Firefight mode, Forge World, very expansive custom options, the deepest Spartan customization yet, a fantastic UI, theater mode that worked in all modes, and yes, good multiplayer.

Sure, there were flaws which affected the core Halo gameplay (mainly in matchmaking), but Reach was a great game overall. Stop focusing so much on the negative.

I loved Reach, quite honestly, even more than Halo 3. But after playing Destiny’s beta it isn’t hard to see how much of Reach really was a test bed, a lot of it was.

I think the only things that appeared in Reach that have also appeared in Destiny are the armor abilities. Like, you got sprint, the Defender subclass’s super is essentially the Drop Shield, and you got jetpack returning in the form of the “Lift” ability.

> * Their acquisition by Activision.

That is incorrect, Activision doesn’t own Bungie. They just have a publishing deal with Destiny, but Bungie retains full control. It’s pretty much Activision or EA and both are the most hated publisher on any given day.

I don’t think I fully agree OP.

Reach and ODST obviously were test beds for Destiny on many levels. But to say it was a social experiment with no regard for the sentiment of the fanbase is harsh and probably not true.

More likely Bungie wanted to move Halo forward at first but were limited by MS for the obvious reason that tweaking your most successful franchise too much might alienate players.

However, most likely Bungie just fell out of love with Halo. I’m not a big H3 fan, I like ODST and Reach better. But I do feel that post-H3 Bungie lost touch of their love for their product. Reach is a very fitting tribute to almost 10 years of Halo, but in its essence it lacks soul.
I strongly feel Bungie has had very little influence over what made Halo successful in the first place. CE and H2 were largely products of bad time management (H2) and platform-changes (CE) within the last year of production. Bungie just managed to get the core right, from the start: weapon-melee-grenades, 30 seconds of fun, amazing level design. But things like its story, and indeed the way everything else was done in the first two Halos was the result of having to rush a product in a year and basically redoing everything without having the time to carefully plot things out.
With H3 and onwards they did manage to get the production problem-free but then came the more soulless results.

This quote from GameSpot’s review of Destiny confirms my suspicion (to me at least!) that Bungie works best when their production is troubled. Things I noticed while playing the Beta for a short 4 hours or so.

> This reminder of how wholly unspecial you are is the big finale of a lavishly produced but troubled game that excels in the basics but lacks creativity and heart

Underlined is exactly my main problem with H3, ODST and Reach.

Yes, many mechanics from Destiny were tested in ODST (open world) and Reach (different classes and weapons, customization) but that is only logical.
And while ODST, Reach and Destiny are all flawed, addictive AAA, products, I refuse to believe Bungie is willingly screwing over their customers.

> I wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion that Halo 4 was half–Yoinked!- in the same way that Halo: Reach felt. -snip the rest-

Sorry, but I’m not seeing where I insulted Halo 4 aside from playlist choices. Halo 4 on the contrast did have a lot of effort put into it. But that is another argument for another time.

All I can say for sure is that anyone who enjoyed the Jet Pack in Reach will find the Striker’s double jump VERY familiar.