Halo: Reach gave us fake teamwork

Games Other Halo
1

I keep seeing people say that Reach is a more team-oriented game than past Halo games, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. It only appears that way because of the changes that make it LOOK like that.

First, there’s Armor Lock. In past Halo games, in order to stay alive through teamwork, you had to stay with your team and get the teamshots down. Now, however, you can be practically anywhere you want to be on the map and just lock down to wait for your team to come try to bail you out. Armor Lock gives the advantage of having your team help you stay alive without actually having to stay by your team. Also, if you ARE actually rolling with your team, it makes you nigh invincible for the entire game if you have good teammates that are able to back you up well. Staying alive through a fight is now as easy as pressing a button, while before you actually had to work for it.

Second, there’s Jetpack. In past Halo games, in order to take back control of the high ground, you would have to work together with your team to make a push and fight your way up there, forcing the other team out. Now, you can just fly up there, completely ignoring normal map layout and jumping up into or behind the enemy team. And if you go with your whole team, that’s even worse. It’s the advantage of getting the drop on the enemy team without having to follow any pathways.

Third, there’s vehicle health. In past Halo games, vehicles’ health was directly related to the driver’s health and shields, so if he had full shields the vehicle was fine. You had to kill the driver to kill the vehicle, and the only real way to do that without a power weapon was to team-shoot it, and even then it was difficult to get a good teamshoot on a great driver. Now, however, any single person can take down any vehicle just by shooting it enough. It’s the advantage of the teamshot taking down a vehicle even though you’re just by yourself.

Fourth, there’s bloom. Besides the fact that bloom does not work as intended, it makes it harder for a person to come out of a 2v1 situation. However, understand this: It doesn’t make it EASIER to teamshoot, it just makes it harder to take on multiple people by yourself. It makes teamshooting LOOK more effective, but that actually doesn’t change. It’s harder for the one person to come out of the 2v1 not because of the ease of teamshot, but because of bloom slowing down his ability to kill the enemies. I hope someone else can explain this better than I can, but it makes sense if you can understand it.

Armor Abilities in general also apply here because they all make it easier to evade death in some way or another, but the main two that show “teamwork” I discussed above.

Can anyone else list some other ways that this game introduced fake teamwork? I’m almost sure that there are.

2

Honestly, I think Reach just decreased the individual skill gap, therefore forcing teamwork, as the individual has almost no room to excell. Some of the reasons you stated above, just make the individual skill gap smaller(especially bloom). Therefore i do agree that reach hase fake teamwork, just not for the same reasons you do.

3

I politely disagree with you. Not using teamwork can get you by at low levels, but when you start playing better players, it is a must. Playing someone using teamwork can be overwhelming for a team that isnt!

4

> I politely disagree with you. Not using teamwork can get you by at low levels, but when you start playing better players, it is a must. Playing someone using teamwork can be overwhelming for a team that isnt!

I DO play with and against (sometimes) good players and have talked about it with hem, and they all agreed that it isn’t real teamwork. It only LOOKS LIKE teamwork because of how difficult they made it to go it alone, even against bad players. They made “teamwork” easier so that anyone can use it for its benefits instead of actually having to be coordinated to make it work.

Also, thanks for not refuting any of my points that explain how the teamwork in this game is fake. Means a lot. I didn’t say that teamwork doesn’t work and that going alone is the way to go, work on your reading.

5

> I keep seeing people say that Reach is a more team-oriented game than past Halo games, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. It only appears that way because of the changes that make it LOOK like that.

If its looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and acts like a duck…

?

6

> > I keep seeing people say that Reach is a more team-oriented game than past Halo games, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. It only appears that way because of the changes that make it LOOK like that.
>
> If its looks like a psyduck, sounds like a psyduck and acts like a psyduck…
>
> ?

Fix’d :stuck_out_tongue:

7

lolwut

8

The teamwork isn’t learned, but the benefits of teamwork are given to players by the game mechanics. Thanks for disregarding the rest of my post to add to this discussion, Fatal. I can tell you’ll provide a well thought out, meaningfull discussion.

9

Another thing: ATLAS. It gives all the perks of having great callouts from a team without actually using them. It’s all fake teamwork.

10

> Honestly, I think Reach just decreased the individual skill gap,

I know right? We should just crack out the Halo 1 discs…

11

I agree with some of these assessments, most notably the Armor Lock one. Not only are you correct about it removing the need to stay with one’s team, but it also creates another form of fake teamwork:

The most common scenario people present in trying to say why Armor Lock is skill-less is this one: in a 4v4 game, a player on either side has been separated. These two encounter each other, effectively beginning a virtual 1v1 skirmish. One of the players is significantly more skilled than the other, strafing better, landing more shots, what have you. Right before death, however, the less-skilled player enters Armor Lock and starts screaming for his team to come. His team does come, and as a result, the less-skilled player survives while the weakened-but-more-skilled player is finished off by the newly-arriving team.

What we see there is an aspect that you touched upon, but didn’t specifically highlight: not only is the Armor Locker completely dependent on his team, but he is contributing nothing to their efforts whatsoever. People try to claim that Armor Lock is good teamwork, but it isn’t teamwork at all. The person using it is not helping their team in any fashion. There is no give; there is only take.

Your conclusion is the same as mine, though, and is quite correct: AL, and other game mechanics in Reach, allow single players to reap the benefits of teamwork without using teamwork of their own. Ironic for a game that emphasizes “leaving that ‘lone wolf’ stuff behind.”

> > I keep seeing people say that Reach is a more team-oriented game than past Halo games, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. It only appears that way because of the changes that make it LOOK like that.
>
> If its looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and acts like a duck…
>
> ?

Then it’s still not lupus.

12

Cobb, while I have disagreed with many of your stances in the past, I agree with you now. Very well put.

13

Allow me OP.

You feel Reach has fake cooperation, not teamwork.

The teamwork required in Reach is quite real.

On the other hand, the choice to cooperate or simply play LW is almost gone thanks to the tetrahedron.

So now you longer get to choose to play like a team when you have someone much better than you on it.
And you no longer get to LW it as easily when your team and the other team are much less “skilled” than you.

14

Get a team together and use teamwork. (Calling out, covering each other, weapon carry for other team mates, flanking, ect) Then go up against another team that is not doing this and is either just running around as a pack or lone wolfing.
You will see the difference. This is why I like Squad Slayer, it requires alot of Teamwork and when executed properly, your team will be unstoppable. In fact, I just went on a 24 game winning streak with 4 friends in Squad Slayer (meaning 1 random Extra). Teared even the most cocky of well organized clans a new one. lol
Now if we were to just run around with coordination, it would of just been a hit or miss with every game.
While in the past Halo games, the highest skills could easily take down entire teams even if they try and use teamwork. In Reach, 5 Coordinated Recruits could win against 5 uncoordinated Inheritors (implying Rank means skill though it doesn’t necessarily) simply because the recruits have better team work.

@Cobb
While I agree with that AL scenario, there is another tactic that I use with friends alot.
Imagen a team like this:
All with DMRs lets say, Hologram, Armor Lock, Active Cammo and Sprint.
The other team is hold up in the bottom floor Powerhouse. Skill wise, then other team has a slight edge.
Your team has snuck into the top floor and outside bottom floor of powerhouse and is about to make a move. It starts by the active camo jamming the enemies radar from above them. A person with Hologram sends in a decoy from one side and a person with armor lock comes in from another side and immediately uses armor lock. Directly behind that person is the sprinter who uses the short amount of time from the armor locker as cover and the Hologramer comes in next (keep in mind thy are still radar jammed). Now the other team is disgorgement, confused and scattered. The Armor Locker used his armor lock to provide quick cover and protection from a team mate being damaged by grenades and most gunfire.
Now this is an actual tactic I use with one of the teams I play with. Works every time as an anti team camp tactic. Not practical with everyone, but it is an example of how armor lock can help in teamwork.

15

> I politely disagree with you. Not using teamwork can get you by at low levels, but when you start playing better players, it is a must. Playing someone using teamwork can be overwhelming for a team that isnt!

Not really. In BTB somone with a Banshee can sapwnkill the whole team because if you do it right, you actually CAN survive in a damaged Banshee (and all other vehicles, too. There are still parts from Halo 3s health-vehicle system in Reach).

Try this in past Halo games.

Halo Reach was made for the individual casual gamer who couldn’t kill/strafe/move or think -Yoink- in Halo 2 and 3.

16

I disagree as well, I think Reach is just as team oriented as any other Halo game.

As long as you have the ability to choose armor lock, jetpack, etc. the other team has the ability to choose the same thing, and then it comes down to the specific execution of each team member and how they battle as a team and use their skills :slight_smile:

17

so what you’re saying is, reach gives you the benefits of teamwork without the use of teamwork?

yea, i’ll agree to that, i’m not really understand your bloom point but the rest i’ve done myself … hehe…

18

My quote button isn’t quoting, but this is directed at Zaxari:

Yes, rolling with a team is far better than lone-wolfing it, but only really when you have a coordinated team. And really, you supported my argument more than you disproved it. I said that it’s harder to lone wolf it because there are so many things against the single player because of this false teamwork, and that’s pretty much what you said without the same reason: that lone-wolfing it is harder because being in a team is easier.

If there are five recruits that are using better teamwork than the five Inheritors, then they aren’t really Recruits. But my point isn’t about teamwork in general, it’s about how new game mechanics give individual players the benefits of having a team without actually working as a coordinated team. Armor Lock gives extra time to allow a teammate to help you. Jetpack allows you to break a team’s map control. The vehicle health system allows a single person to take out any vehicle in time. Bloom makes it harder to take on multiple people at once not because of the enemy having “better teamwork”, but because you’re forced to slow down. ATLAS gives all the benefits of having amazing callouts without actually saying anything. It’s all given to you, nothing is learned.

As for your scenario, what if there were no Armor Abilities that allowed you to do all that extra stuff, a.k.a. Halo 3 style? How would you clear it out then? Without having all those gimmicks to give you a severe advantage, it would take a hell of a lot more coordination amongst the teammates as well as a lot of individual skill in order to clear it out. Instead, you press your AA buttons at the same time and everything becomes easy.

Besides, what if they all have Camo in there? They all go invisible and hide in obscure places. Every one of their jammers is making your radar constantly on the fritz, they’re watching every entrance without being seen themselves, and they should automatically get the first shot on you guys.

19

My quote button isn’t working. This is in response to this post:

STARCHILD8883 Posted: about 2 hours ago

I disagree as well, I think Reach is just as team oriented as any other Halo game.

As long as you have the ability to choose armor lock, jetpack, etc. the other team has the ability to choose the same thing, and then it comes down to the specific execution of each team member and how they battle as a team and use their skills :slight_smile:

Just because everyone has the same perks doesn’t mean it’s balanced. Also, you didn’t address the main point of my thread.