I actually wanted jet packs and sprinting in Halo 3, but I do agree that Reach is where things started getting worse.
It was the first Halo campaign I didn’t care that much about, and the art style seemed too pastel.
Then you had the unbalanced armor abilities, and the Forge World that felt boring.
As well as the armor design changes that looked worse in my opinion.
That’s true.
To ignore that the game can’t keep 20,000 players being free to play on PC means you Halo fans are ignoring that gaming has rejected this outdated gameplay.
See…the old school/hardcore aren’t everything.
This franchise can not attract new people.
Younger gamers won’t touch it and whether you people like it or not clearly a percentage of the fan base wanted the faster movement and enhanced mobility…so now they are gone.
The classic fans rejecting to allow the game to change made the series drop from ever being a top played game again…which it isn’t.
Game can’t pull 10,000 viewers on twitch on the weekend and Halo fans think it means nothing .
Could have had Halo 1-3 classic movement and then 4-6 being advanced. But Halo fans wanted to keep getting new game s with no changes equals failure in each game.
Now, the series survived only by the hardcore(which is fine) but it will never achieve those heights again and frankly doesn’t deserve to be Xbox’s flagship game or have this wasted budget.
We could have had 4 games out of those 500 employees over at 343i plus all the help from the coalition and others…
Having this ONE failure of a Halo game costs Xbox fans about 5 new exclusive experience…
Old school or classic Halo simply isn’t good enough to warrant that.
Break the studio apart and make new franchises.
10 years of 500 employees working on this game is worthless.
I think it’s losing players because of all its issues rather than its gameplay.
A lot of things don’t work (Big Team Battle, custom games, Theater, customization).
A lot of things aren’t in the game (Forge, Firefight, Warzone, co-op, various modes).
A lot of things are worse (customization, custom games, campaign variety, progression).
Ideally.
It probably wouldn’t have taken much for them to make playlists with the new features disabled.
Sorry can’t agree on any of that other than customization.l and firefight. Customization because that is what gamers use or think of as far as progression goes nowadays and firefight as co-op can generally always help.
But
Casual non Halo players don’t care about BTB, custom games, theater, forge, warzone…they wouldn’t even care that much about co-op although it would help for a little while.
Hear me out…
This is a free to play game available anywhere that will allow it…those things aren’t needed as none of the other big free to play games have or had those at launch.
The game can’t break 6,000 viewers on twitch and can’t keep 20,000 active players on PC.
That means gaming has moved on from Halo and rejected it.
Yes, of course it’s bugs and issues are attributing to it.
However, eventually the truth has to settle with Halo fans. The franchise can’t compete with modern shooters.
Gamers don’t want slow for the sake of slow…full of restrictions and delays.
It feels dated to people.
No, they wouldn’t. They’d be very foolish and setting themselves up on a really weird hill to defend, as Halo has also been two RTS’s, a top-down isometric shooter, a rail shooter, and two table-top games. Halo hasn’t been limited to an FPS title since 2007, and this view that it “must or bust” be an FPS title - and more than that, one singular ideal of an FPS title - is what is truly stagnation for the franchise.
Y’know, if places like this forum and Reddit are to be taken as any metric, the Campaign almost doesn’t exist. You’re not wrong in that the campaign is central and core to what makes Halo Halo, it’s just a little funny to see.
However that’s indicative of any story-driven FPS. Halo, Cyberpunk 2077, Borderlands, even The Elder Scrolls. If a game has a storyline, it’s generally the focus. Gears of Wars 3 and Splitgate have weapon spawns; that is indicative of Arena Gameplay rather than Tactical Gameplay; games like Call of Duty and Battelfield, where you spawn with a loadout rather than acquiring weapons on the map. (As well no, neither Halo Reach nor Halo 4 got to the point of being a Tactical Multiplayer, as the “loadouts” were limited to basic weapons and not power weapons; there was still a drive for map and weapon control.)
Custom Games, as well, are becoming a norm for many types of games; that doesn’t really distinguish Halo from other titles. It can’t even really be said that the ideological “Thirty Seconds of Fun” or however long it was is a defining trait anymore, it’s become so common.
And did nothing for the longevity of video games. They’re still around, 40 years later and more prevalent than ever before. Even the end of the “Golden Age of Arcades” didn’t end them entirely, as people were still going to Arcades all the way up until the early 2000’s. All of the people saying “Video games won’t last” have been hilariously outdated. They likely won’t last forever, nothing does, but their end won’t be any time soon. And certainly, the “end of gaming” won’t be for “chasing trends”. If anything that will aid it’s longevity; trends keep things relevant and interesting. It’s why no one really plays Pong anymore.
No, it’s really not. The gameplay is important for setting what type of game it is, but even that is fluid. Games like The Elder Scrolls are technically FPS games, but not in a way that anyone would think of it. Cyberpunk 2077 as well, is an FPSRPG, but still an FPS. From that perspective there’s nothing that divides Cyberpunk 2077 from Borderlands. Then games like Brütal Legend, which was a Third-Person Hack-and-Slash with RTS elements.
The storyline and aesthetics are what is most important to a game. It is what actually defines the game as unique, beyond whatever gameplay trend is currently popular. Without it you’re just playing a genre, and that doesn’t really go far.
That makes absolutely no sense, because Infinite has Advanced Movement. It still has sprint, it still has clamber, it still has slide and it even still has thruster, albeit as equipment. On top of that, by adding the grappling hook, it has the most advance movement out of all of the Halo games.
If movement actually was the reason why Infinite has such a low playerbase, then it’s not because the few people who liked Halo’s AMM mechanics left, it is because by still having them the game wasn’t able to bring back the classic crowd.
Classic fans aren’t preventing the game to change. There were countless suggestions for new mechanics given over an entire decade. The issue is that most, if not all, changes that were implemented in 343’s titles mutated the core gameplay beyond the point of recognisability.
If I wanted to play a different game, I’d just go play a different game. I don’t want Halo to become a different game, because that would rob me of the opportunity of actually playing Halo.
You conveniently ignored Reach, which was already an Advanced Movement Mechanics Halo. Meaning that since there already were three games in that style, it would have been time to go back to classic anyways, according to your own logic.
But seeing as Infinite still is an AMM Halo, you not only got your wish but actually got one game more than you asked for.
Yeah, F them for actually wanting to play Halo when they buy Halo!
Yeah. We could have.
We could have had classic Halo and AMM Halo being made alongside another. Not only would that have satisfied both sides of the community, it would finally have settled the debate on which one is more popular.
Unfortunately, 343 and Microsoft bet all their money on one horse because it looked like the one from their competition, but it was infested by arthritis, gout and leprosy.
I’d like to know where you take that from, since we didn’t get a new classic Halo in over a decade, and even the botched re-releases on the MCC were more played than H5G, despite that being an all-new AMM game at the time.
I agree. Let the people you hired because they “hated Halo” develop something else than “Halo” games.
Hire people who actually want to make Halo games for your next Halo game.
That is not true and does not go with what I am saying at all…when you are looking to make someone wrong you will “reach”.
I got it from life and the fact that a billion dollar game attempted to change to compete or keep up with the changing times…life makes that clear. Not trying to be rude but billionaire companies aren’t changing their billionaire product without there either being an issue or seeing the way gaming was going…right or wrong.
This is what I mean. It isn’t a debate.
Trash comment man. This is what I mean you guys are so emotional you take Halo like it is something other than a game. It is a game. Then you get rude for no reason. Lol
Right but it also can’t attract new players or keep the ones who want the advanced mobility.
You are speaking as this the advanced movement can even compete still…it can’t. Even with grapple etc this game can’t compare to faster games it was immigrating…
It either had to not change and stagnate itself or change fully.
It was too little to match what came out and too much to please the old school fans.
Game can’t keep 7,000 viewers on twitch or 20,000 players free to play on steam means gaming has moved on.
…all of which were spin-off games and clearly labeled as such. A game that call itself “Halo #”, however, needs to adhere to the standards set in stone by prior numbered Halo titles.
That is blatantly false.
It might have been true two decades ago, but nowadays, a game’s storyline and aesthetics can be experienced by just watching a Let’s Play on YouTube. There is absolutely no need to engage - and thus actually buy - anything related to the interactive part of the product if all you care about is story.
It’s the gameplay that makes people actually play the game. It’s literally in the word: “gameplay”.
I’m not looking to make you wrong.
You are wrong, and I’ve explained to you why.
Well, since every new AMM Halo played completely differently than the one before, by your own logic that means that there always was an issue, because that billionaire product kept changing each and every time.
It’s just funny to see that they keep chaning everything in a desperate attempt to stop the free-fall of the population numbers, except the one thing that all of them have in common and that just coincidentally was introduced to the franchise at the exact moment its drop in popularity started.
This comment was not emotional. It was an intentional parody of your argument to point out how nonsensical it is.
No, classic Halo players aren’t wrong for wanting “to keep getting new game s with no changes” (which, btw, is a strawman in the first place, as it doesn’t represent reality in the slightest) and no, they are also not to blame for Halo’s decline.
Guess what: Every person has the right to choose what they spend their own time and money on. If AMM Halo didn’t appeal to them, I’m sorry to brake it to you but, they aren’t required to invest in it.
If the developer chooses to develop something that is not in tune with their own franchise and doesn’t manage to capture a new audience outside of its fanbase - Btw, where was your larger gaming audience that allegedly craves for Advanced Movement during the last decade? Because they definitely weren’t playing the new “Halo” games. - then it’s their own fault, not the fault of the consumer for not buying something they don’t like.
Neither could the last couple of “Halo” games. Nothing changed. So why did 343 continue to push in this direction?
Advanced movement doesn’t make a game faster. Higher BMS does. If anything, sprint, clamber and all the other AMM mechanics make the game slower.
The last couple of Halo games all were slower than the original Trilogy. Halo CE to this day is still the fastest games of the franchise.
No, it doesn’t. It just means that Infinite doesn’t satisfy any audience. (Which you literally admitted yourself.)
In no way does that even imply, let alone prove, that gaming has moved on from Classic Halo, because Infinite isn’t Classic Halo.
That’s not equal starts, equal starts is the same starting weapons and equipment ( or lack of ) no matter what.
Didn’t say Invasion is equal starts, what I provided is stuff within the mode that can be argued as equal.
But none of it is equal, you have no prediction on what some other player will pick and thus what their capabilities will be and thus the combat loop is randomized depending on you and your opponents loadout.
Then thats not the games fault thats the players fault.
Would you say the other modes in reach as such Slayer has equal starts with the preset loadouts with guns and equipment on both sides?
Because they’re non-Halo players.
They might have cared if we’d had those modes at launch.
Then the series is done.
If all people want now is something else, then whether it changes into a different game to suit them or stays the same, Halo will be gone either way.
Those are spin-offs.
Halo 5 is a main game.
Role-playing games usually give a lot of focus to story and character improvement.
Most FPS games don’t, or people don’t care, and that’s part of why the campaign in Halo is not usual.
Cyberpunk 2077 is an action role-playing game.
Borderlands is a role-playing looter shooter.
The Elder Scrolls is an action role-playing game.
Halo is not a role-playing game.
Arena shooters are defined by having matches were players use mainly guns to fight in an enclosed battleground, hence the “arena” and “shooter”.
What FPS games other than Halo have official custom games and an official map maker?
Of course video games are still around, but the crash changed quite a few things.
Video games will go away forever, but the industry will change again.
Heretic and Hexen are closer to being FPS games than the Elder Scrolls.
The games in the Elder Scrolls series have a first-person perspective, but since The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, they have also had a third-person perspective, and they have had many role-playing elements since the first Elder Scrolls game.
Before The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, you couldn’t even hit anything unless your stats were high enough.
Saying the Elder Scrolls is an FPS is like saying that the main Kirby games are hack and slash because you can fight with a sword.
While Cyberpunk 2077 and Borderlands could be considered FPS games, there is a lot that divides them.
Cyberpunk 2077, from what I recall hearing of it, like quite a few other role-playing games has a focus on talking to characters and making story-related choices.
Borderlands is a looter shooter.
It’s the closest to an FPS of the role-playing games mentioned.
It’s to FPS what Diablo is to hack and slash.
I like the idea of adding a good story and aesthetics onto a fun game, but you can’t just throw whatever is popular onto an existing, liked gameplay structure and think people are going to be happy about it.
I know it’s not good for business, but when you have a new gameplay structure, it belongs in a new series, or even a spin-off.
It’s the same as when people make movies with the names of games yet they have almost nothing to do with the games.
Final Fantasy XV and Halo 5 should’ve been spin-offs, even if they ended up replacing the main series.
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Mega Man X, Zero and Legends, Metroid Prime, Metal Gear Solid, Persona, etc.
Those games were all very popular, some even more than the originals, but their developers had the sense to make them into spin-offs and some even kept the main series going because they were still popular.
I agree with most of what you’ve said, but this I disagree with.
Halo 3 was very slow compared to 4, 5 and Infinite.
A lot of players didn’t enjoy h5 which was the advanced halo game and most of the players preferred halo 2/3 and halo reach game-style(a simpler games) . Halo 5: Guardians is the most evolved halo game and way ahead of its time.
No, Equal starts means no presets at all. I get a DMR, Mag and 2 nades and so do you no matter what, end of story. Halo’s combat core is built on equal starts and knowing what the enemy will spawn with and how that impacts their ability to play the game.
The time it takes to get into combat after spawn is much faster than in H5, maps are scaled to the speed H3 plays in so it takes a much shorter amount of time to get into the action.
But that is equal because both sides can pick and use the same loadouts (except invasion).
That is not equal, you seem to not understand what equal starts means. It doesn’t matter if both teams have the same loadouts it’s still not equal starts and thus is not welcome in Halo.
Even if the option is there for everyone, spawning with different loadouts is not even starts. While the choice of loadouts worked better for invasion the choices of loadouts broke many BTB and smaller maps.