Halo needs a community that calls out the BS...

Community General Discussion
1

There is a lot love for non-essential items in Halo, here on this forum… to the point where the community is asking for more of the same drivel, while more crucial content gets overlooked and lacks a presence in the game.

All I’m saying is, going forward, let’s use our brains and push for the important stuff in H6 and beyond. We don’t need a lot of armor, we don’t need multiple Beam Rifles when both function the exact same, playable elites… we need game modes and a great suite of multiplayer maps. We need staple playlists and variety at launch… campaign needs to deliver, gameplay mechanics need tweaking to eliminate in-game BS and to provide a more competitively viable experience (looking at you, Spartan Charge)…

We must all realize that we really need the fat trimmed from this series in order for the quality of the content to meet expectations. Think about the business concepts in terms of the development of Halo. The proper bullet points need the proper amount of prioritization. When there’s too much cheese, we need to call it out… 343 can no doubt save some costs in certain areas, and utilize those savings in others to further refine and provide a more complete experience next go 'round!

2

As I’ve told you before, people have no obligation to want the same things from Halo that you do. While I very much want a finished game with a variety of playlists at launch and a fun re-playable campaign. I also happen to enjoy having various weapon skins and armors. I can have both and someone who happens to want a specific cosmetic or multiple has every right to ask for them.

3

> 2533274880633045;2:
> As I’ve told you before, people have no obligation to want the same things from Halo that you do. While I very much want a finished game with a variety of playlists at launch and a fun re-playable campaign. I also happen to enjoy having various weapon skins and armors. I can have both and someone who happens to want a specific cosmetic or multiple has every right to ask for them.

And I’m saying that even though you may have a right to ask for (or prefer) certain kinds of content, that doesn’t mean your preferences are in support of what’s best for the series…

4

> 2533274873580796;3:
> > 2533274880633045;2:
> > As I’ve told you before, people have no obligation to want the same things from Halo that you do. While I very much want a finished game with a variety of playlists at launch and a fun re-playable campaign. I also happen to enjoy having various weapon skins and armors. I can have both and someone who happens to want a specific cosmetic or multiple has every right to ask for them.
>
> And I’m saying that even though you may have a right to ask, or prefer certain kinds of content, that doesn’t mean your preferences are in support of what’s best for the series…

But what is “best for the series”, and why are you the person who gets to dictate that?

5

> 2533274873580796;3:
> > 2533274880633045;2:
> > As I’ve told you before, people have no obligation to want the same things from Halo that you do. While I very much want a finished game with a variety of playlists at launch and a fun re-playable campaign. I also happen to enjoy having various weapon skins and armors. I can have both and someone who happens to want a specific cosmetic or multiple has every right to ask for them.
>
> And I’m saying that even though you may have a right to ask, or prefer certain kinds of content, that doesn’t mean your preferences are in support of what’s best for the series…

You don’t get to decide what is best for the series. What’s best for the series IMO is having good quality games that include a variety of gameplay titles and customization options which make the player base happy. Halo is far larger than you and can please everyone. You don’t get to decide that someone else’s opinions or desires are wrong.

While I tend to value my opinion more than others it isn’t sacrosanct. There isn’t anything that make it necessarily correct. This is a place about discussion of those opinions and simply saying “What you want isn’t in the best interest of Halo.” doesn’t offer anything of real value. It simply devalues someone else’s opinion. You can state, “I don’t think there should be as many cosmetic choice. I think it’s a waste of time.” But you can’t tell other people that they shouldn’t ask for something they want.

6

> 2533274825830455;4:
> > 2533274873580796;3:
> > > 2533274880633045;2:
> > > As I’ve told you before, people have no obligation to want the same things from Halo that you do. While I very much want a finished game with a variety of playlists at launch and a fun re-playable campaign. I also happen to enjoy having various weapon skins and armors. I can have both and someone who happens to want a specific cosmetic or multiple has every right to ask for them.
> >
> > And I’m saying that even though you may have a right to ask, or prefer certain kinds of content, that doesn’t mean your preferences are in support of what’s best for the series…
>
> But what is “best for the series”, and why are you the person who gets to dictate that?

I don’t, but I’ve been a fan of the series since 2003… I’ve grown up with this series, I’ve seen its highs and lows… what it has done well, what it hasn’t. Successes and failures…

I also work in engineering… and engineers are typically practical in thought, analytical… a different kind of businessman. I mean, I’m not the smartest guy in the world, don’t take this the wrong way, but I’m not dumb either… I have had a passion for Halo for a long time, not so much for the story and lore (while I once thought it was great), but a passion for it being a GOOD GAME first and foremost.

I’m saying that Halo needs people like that… that want Halo to be the best it CAN be! Instead, what we have left for the most part are Reach/H4 kids that are all willy-nilly about their preferences… an example…

“Jet-pack is great, because it’s cool to fly around!” - A thoughtless, no-substance argument… the detriments on gameplay were catastrophic and map flow/positioning and control concepts were badly broken due to jet-pack…

We have all of these thoughtless arguments everywhere in the community now, that don’t support the identity of what Halo has always been at its core and heart of its design, and we have a HIGHLY PC environment here that coddles their opinions and tells them it’s ok…

There’s such a thing called “brand identity…” Reach and H4 broke that in a variety of ways… H5 got some crucial elements right but did not uphold this identity in others. Expectations were not met in terms of map/playlist offerings… look at BTB, Forge shipped late… Breakout was more or less a failure, lots of time and resources spent on that… for what? For 500 people in the world to play it at a time?

It’s practically common sense if you break everything down and observe the history of the series. H5 was fine to innovate on the gameplay front, as we are back to 1:1 Arena gameplay with equal player opportunity, but they need to execute on the other critical areas where H2 and H3 excelled.

Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…

7

You can’t dismiss those that started with Reach or Halo 4 like that. They still get a voice and an opinion.

> 2533274873580796;6:
> Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…

Again, why do YOU get to decide what Halo is? Of course Halo is different to you than someone who started with Halo Reach. That doesn’t mean their opinion doesn’t matter.

You’re conflating what you want in a Halo game with what a Halo game should have. Just because YOU don’t want skins or different armor doesn’t mean that it isn’t a part of the game at this point.

You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Your opinion is no less valid than someone else’s. You aren’t the deciding factor. What you do for a living has no bearing on things. I’ve also played since CE and I like skins, I like armor changing. Why does your opinion trump mine?

8

I find it difficult to believe that you’ve been on the forums this long and somehow have the impression that everyone here praises 343i’s decisions. People call out 343i for pretty much everything they do, good or bad, legitimate complaint or just mindless whining. You are not alone in your opinions but you act as though the newer players’ are drowning out your voice with their opinions. And that’s blatantly false. Heck, at this point most posts I see are completely neutral or unrelated to the whole “is 343i good?” debate, probably because everyone is so damn tired of the constant arguing back and forth that almost always devolves into strawmans (from both sides). If you really want a Halo Community that’s “calling 343i out on their BS,” I highly recommend the r/halo subreddit.

9

> 2533274796457055;7:
> You can’t dismiss those that started with Reach or Halo 4 like that. They still get a voice and an opinion.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274873580796;6:
> > Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…
>
> Again, why do YOU get to decide what Halo is? Of course Halo is different to you than someone who started with Halo Reach. That doesn’t mean their opinion doesn’t matter.
>
> You’re conflating what you want in a Halo game with what a Halo game should have. Just because YOU don’t want skins or different armor doesn’t mean that it isn’t a part of the game at this point.
>
> You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Your opinion is no less valid than someone else’s. You aren’t the deciding factor. What you do for a living has no bearing on things. I’ve also played since CE and I like skins, I like armor changing. Why does your opinion trump mine?

It’s in the statistics man… Halo has fallen once the formula/structure was altered and they started throwing imbalanced variables into the gameplay… I’m not trying to be right or be THE GUY lol. This is about Halo… I just hope that people can look at the facts, take a good, hard objective look at what Halo has been, what it needs to be, and arrive at the same conclusion.

I know for a fact that most Halo fans do not spend the time thinking about the game like I do. It’s a lot more willy-nilly (for others… they don’t have that same passion for the game), like I said. But the causes and effects are there. And again, as I said before, we can either be PC about it, or we can acknowledge what’s happened to the Halo series…

One avenue will get the series on track, and the other we will continue to see mediocrity tainting the franchise. It’s our choice as a community…

10

> 2533274873580796;9:
> > 2533274796457055;7:
> > You can’t dismiss those that started with Reach or Halo 4 like that. They still get a voice and an opinion.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274873580796;6:
> > > Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…
> >
> > Again, why do YOU get to decide what Halo is? Of course Halo is different to you than someone who started with Halo Reach. That doesn’t mean their opinion doesn’t matter.
> >
> > You’re conflating what you want in a Halo game with what a Halo game should have. Just because YOU don’t want skins or different armor doesn’t mean that it isn’t a part of the game at this point.
> >
> > You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Your opinion is no less valid than someone else’s. You aren’t the deciding factor. What you do for a living has no bearing on things. I’ve also played since CE and I like skins, I like armor changing. Why does your opinion trump mine?
>
> <mark>It’s in the statistics man</mark>… Halo has fallen once the formula/structure was altered and they started throwing imbalanced variables into the gameplay… I’m not trying to be right or be THE GUY lol. This is about Halo… I just hope that people can look at the facts, take a good, hard objective look at what Halo has been, what it needs to be, and arrive at the same conclusion.
>
> I know for a fact that most Halo fans do not spend the time thinking about the game like I do. It’s a lot more willy-nilly like I said. But the causes and effects are there. And again, as I said before, we can either be PC about it, or we can acknowledge what’s happened to the Halo series…
>
> One avenue will get the series on track, and the other we will continue to see mediocrity tainting the franchise. It’s our choice as a community…

Oh interesting. Can you share your stats sources please?

11

> 2533274950478805;8:
> I find it difficult to believe that you’ve been on the forums this long and somehow have the impression that everyone here praises 343i’s decisions. People call out 343i for pretty much everything they do, good or bad, legitimate complaint or just mindless whining. You are not alone in your opinions but you act as though the newer players’ are drowning out your voice with their opinions. And that’s blatantly false. Heck, at this point most posts I see are completely neutral or unrelated to the whole “is 343i good?” debate, probably because everyone is so damn tired of the constant arguing back and forth that almost always devolves into strawmans (from both sides). If you really want a Halo Community that’s “calling 343i out on their BS,” I highly recommend the r/halo subreddit.

“Newer players” are about all that’s left, relatively speaking… that’s the point. A lot of older fans have jumped ship ages ago. The general mindset of the community has changed because of this…

The rise and fall of competitive MLG Halo ties into this, somewhat (in)directly.

Look at COD now, the fanbase wants “boots on the ground” and they’re getting it. They’re lucky to still have a good amount of their fans that are vocal, because it works… they’re keeping the devs in check. I’m not saying Halo needs to go full blown classic, but the capability to play classic Halo gameplay w/ the classic playlists in MM would be appreciated, as would these playlist with modern gameplay (which is great in H5) as well.

They’re altering the structure and formula too much! People expect the Halo “experience” with each edition of the game. That means good maps, modes, playlists, good campaign/story. Feature rich… H5 has a total of 3 Arena gamemodes, not counting Assault (where is that now? lol)… not acceptable given the series track record.

You can’t make this stuff up man… haha

12

> 2533274796457055;10:
> > 2533274873580796;9:
> > > 2533274796457055;7:
> > > You can’t dismiss those that started with Reach or Halo 4 like that. They still get a voice and an opinion.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274873580796;6:
> > > > Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…
> > >
> > > Again, why do YOU get to decide what Halo is? Of course Halo is different to you than someone who started with Halo Reach. That doesn’t mean their opinion doesn’t matter.
> > >
> > > You’re conflating what you want in a Halo game with what a Halo game should have. Just because YOU don’t want skins or different armor doesn’t mean that it isn’t a part of the game at this point.
> > >
> > > You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Your opinion is no less valid than someone else’s. You aren’t the deciding factor. What you do for a living has no bearing on things. I’ve also played since CE and I like skins, I like armor changing. Why does your opinion trump mine?
> >
> > It’s in the statistics man… Halo has fallen once the formula/structure was altered and they started throwing imbalanced variables into the gameplay… I’m not trying to be right or be THE GUY lol. This is about Halo… I just hope that people can look at the facts, take a good, hard objective look at what Halo has been, what it needs to be, and arrive at the same conclusion.
> >
> > I know for a fact that most Halo fans do not spend the time thinking about the game like I do. It’s a lot more willy-nilly like I said. But the causes and effects are there. And again, as I said before, we can either be PC about it, or we can acknowledge what’s happened to the Halo series…
> >
> > One avenue will get the series on track, and the other we will continue to see mediocrity tainting the franchise. It’s our choice as a community…
>
> Oh interesting. Can you share your stats sources please?

They’ve been widely known for a while now… look at the sales and population numbers. You mods, of all people, should know this.

The core of the game changed, it became something other than what had been established as “Halo” and people started fizzling out…

The OG Arena players are now a dying breed as a result… sad.

13

> 2533274873580796;12:
> > 2533274796457055;10:
> > > 2533274873580796;9:
> > > > 2533274796457055;7:
> > > > You can’t dismiss those that started with Reach or Halo 4 like that. They still get a voice and an opinion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2533274873580796;6:
> > > > > Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…
> > > >
> > > > Again, why do YOU get to decide what Halo is? Of course Halo is different to you than someone who started with Halo Reach. That doesn’t mean their opinion doesn’t matter.
> > > >
> > > > You’re conflating what you want in a Halo game with what a Halo game should have. Just because YOU don’t want skins or different armor doesn’t mean that it isn’t a part of the game at this point.
> > > >
> > > > You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Your opinion is no less valid than someone else’s. You aren’t the deciding factor. What you do for a living has no bearing on things. I’ve also played since CE and I like skins, I like armor changing. Why does your opinion trump mine?
> > >
> > > It’s in the statistics man… Halo has fallen once the formula/structure was altered and they started throwing imbalanced variables into the gameplay… I’m not trying to be right or be THE GUY lol. This is about Halo… I just hope that people can look at the facts, take a good, hard objective look at what Halo has been, what it needs to be, and arrive at the same conclusion.
> > >
> > > I know for a fact that most Halo fans do not spend the time thinking about the game like I do. It’s a lot more willy-nilly like I said. But the causes and effects are there. And again, as I said before, we can either be PC about it, or we can acknowledge what’s happened to the Halo series…
> > >
> > > One avenue will get the series on track, and the other we will continue to see mediocrity tainting the franchise. It’s our choice as a community…
> >
> > Oh interesting. Can you share your stats sources please?
>
> They’ve been widely known for a while now… look at the sales and population numbers. You mods, of all people, should know this.
>
> The core of the game changed, it became something other than what had been established as “Halo” and people started fizzling out…
>
> The OG Arena players are now a dying breed as a result… sad.

Being a mod doesn’t grant special privilege or a peek into the stats.

Again, you’re making the claims. Sources please.

14

> 2533274796457055;13:
> > 2533274873580796;12:
> > > 2533274796457055;10:
> > > > 2533274873580796;9:
> > > > > 2533274796457055;7:
> > > > > You can’t dismiss those that started with Reach or Halo 4 like that. They still get a voice and an opinion.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2533274873580796;6:
> > > > > > Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, why do YOU get to decide what Halo is? Of course Halo is different to you than someone who started with Halo Reach. That doesn’t mean their opinion doesn’t matter.
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re conflating what you want in a Halo game with what a Halo game should have. Just because YOU don’t want skins or different armor doesn’t mean that it isn’t a part of the game at this point.
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Your opinion is no less valid than someone else’s. You aren’t the deciding factor. What you do for a living has no bearing on things. I’ve also played since CE and I like skins, I like armor changing. Why does your opinion trump mine?
> > > >
> > > > It’s in the statistics man… Halo has fallen once the formula/structure was altered and they started throwing imbalanced variables into the gameplay… I’m not trying to be right or be THE GUY lol. This is about Halo… I just hope that people can look at the facts, take a good, hard objective look at what Halo has been, what it needs to be, and arrive at the same conclusion.
> > > >
> > > > I know for a fact that most Halo fans do not spend the time thinking about the game like I do. It’s a lot more willy-nilly like I said. But the causes and effects are there. And again, as I said before, we can either be PC about it, or we can acknowledge what’s happened to the Halo series…
> > > >
> > > > One avenue will get the series on track, and the other we will continue to see mediocrity tainting the franchise. It’s our choice as a community…
> > >
> > > Oh interesting. Can you share your stats sources please?
> >
> > They’ve been widely known for a while now… look at the sales and population numbers. You mods, of all people, should know this.
> >
> > The core of the game changed, it became something other than what had been established as “Halo” and people started fizzling out…
> >
> > The OG Arena players are now a dying breed as a result… sad.
>
> Being a mod doesn’t grant special privilege or a peek into the stats.
>
> Again, you’re making the claims. Sources please.

Lol… they’re all over the Internet bro! Google Halo sales… XBL Halo population bar graphs… the numbers are there.

Not sure what you’re trying to pull… but the facts are there to acknowledge. Whether you want to or not, that’s your decision.

15

> 2533274873580796;14:
> > 2533274796457055;13:
> > > 2533274873580796;12:
> > > > 2533274796457055;10:
> > > > > 2533274873580796;9:
> > > > > > 2533274796457055;7:
> > > > > > You can’t dismiss those that started with Reach or Halo 4 like that. They still get a voice and an opinion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2533274873580796;6:
> > > > > > > Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Again, why do YOU get to decide what Halo is? Of course Halo is different to you than someone who started with Halo Reach. That doesn’t mean their opinion doesn’t matter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re conflating what you want in a Halo game with what a Halo game should have. Just because YOU don’t want skins or different armor doesn’t mean that it isn’t a part of the game at this point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Your opinion is no less valid than someone else’s. You aren’t the deciding factor. What you do for a living has no bearing on things. I’ve also played since CE and I like skins, I like armor changing. Why does your opinion trump mine?
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s in the statistics man… Halo has fallen once the formula/structure was altered and they started throwing imbalanced variables into the gameplay… I’m not trying to be right or be THE GUY lol. This is about Halo… I just hope that people can look at the facts, take a good, hard objective look at what Halo has been, what it needs to be, and arrive at the same conclusion.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know for a fact that most Halo fans do not spend the time thinking about the game like I do. It’s a lot more willy-nilly like I said. But the causes and effects are there. And again, as I said before, we can either be PC about it, or we can acknowledge what’s happened to the Halo series…
> > > > >
> > > > > One avenue will get the series on track, and the other we will continue to see mediocrity tainting the franchise. It’s our choice as a community…
> > > >
> > > > Oh interesting. Can you share your stats sources please?
> > >
> > > They’ve been widely known for a while now… look at the sales and population numbers. You mods, of all people, should know this.
> > >
> > > The core of the game changed, it became something other than what had been established as “Halo” and people started fizzling out…
> > >
> > > The OG Arena players are now a dying breed as a result… sad.
> >
> > Being a mod doesn’t grant special privilege or a peek into the stats.
> >
> > Again, you’re making the claims. Sources please.
>
> Lol… they’re all over the Internet bro! Google Halo sales… XBL Halo population bar graphs… the numbers are there.
>
> Not sure what you’re trying to pull… but the facts are there to acknowledge. Whether you want to or not, that’s your decision.

So you’ve got nothing but speculation. Got it.

I want official MS sources. You’re making the claims ergo they must exist, right? The onus is on you to back up your claims, not me to dig through a bunch of tin-foil hats.

16

I call bs on your stats. Am I doing this right?

17

> 2533274873580796;14:
> > 2533274796457055;13:
> > > 2533274873580796;12:
> > > > 2533274796457055;10:
> > > > > 2533274873580796;9:
> > > > > > 2533274796457055;7:
> > > > > > You can’t dismiss those that started with Reach or Halo 4 like that. They still get a voice and an opinion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2533274873580796;6:
> > > > > > > Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Again, why do YOU get to decide what Halo is? Of course Halo is different to you than someone who started with Halo Reach. That doesn’t mean their opinion doesn’t matter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re conflating what you want in a Halo game with what a Halo game should have. Just because YOU don’t want skins or different armor doesn’t mean that it isn’t a part of the game at this point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Your opinion is no less valid than someone else’s. You aren’t the deciding factor. What you do for a living has no bearing on things. I’ve also played since CE and I like skins, I like armor changing. Why does your opinion trump mine?
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s in the statistics man… Halo has fallen once the formula/structure was altered and they started throwing imbalanced variables into the gameplay… I’m not trying to be right or be THE GUY lol. This is about Halo… I just hope that people can look at the facts, take a good, hard objective look at what Halo has been, what it needs to be, and arrive at the same conclusion.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know for a fact that most Halo fans do not spend the time thinking about the game like I do. It’s a lot more willy-nilly like I said. But the causes and effects are there. And again, as I said before, we can either be PC about it, or we can acknowledge what’s happened to the Halo series…
> > > > >
> > > > > One avenue will get the series on track, and the other we will continue to see mediocrity tainting the franchise. It’s our choice as a community…
> > > >
> > > > Oh interesting. Can you share your stats sources please?
> > >
> > > They’ve been widely known for a while now… look at the sales and population numbers. You mods, of all people, should know this.
> > >
> > > The core of the game changed, it became something other than what had been established as “Halo” and people started fizzling out…
> > >
> > > The OG Arena players are now a dying breed as a result… sad.
> >
> > Being a mod doesn’t grant special privilege or a peek into the stats.
> >
> > Again, you’re making the claims. Sources please.
>
> Lol… they’re all over the Internet bro! Google Halo sales… XBL Halo population bar graphs… the numbers are there.
>
> Not sure what you’re trying to pull… but the facts are there to acknowledge. Whether you want to or not, that’s your decision.

A: It’s up to you to support an argument. An argument asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
B: Even if you chose to support your argument. Even if you were granted that Halo’s population has fallen, you have absolutely no way to determine why. As it stands your assertion that that the population has lessened because it’s ‘too far removed’ from classic game play is unfounded and unsupportable.

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> > 2533274950478805;8:
> > I find it difficult to believe that you’ve been on the forums this long and somehow have the impression that everyone here praises 343i’s decisions. People call out 343i for pretty much everything they do, good or bad, legitimate complaint or just mindless whining. You are not alone in your opinions but you act as though the newer players’ are drowning out your voice with their opinions. And that’s blatantly false. Heck, at this point most posts I see are completely neutral or unrelated to the whole “is 343i good?” debate, probably because everyone is so damn tired of the constant arguing back and forth that almost always devolves into strawmans (from both sides). If you really want a Halo Community that’s “calling 343i out on their BS,” I highly recommend the r/halo subreddit.
>
> “Newer players” are about all that’s left, relatively speaking… that’s the point. A lot of older fans have jumped ship ages ago. The general mindset of the community has changed because of this…
>
> The rise and fall of competitive MLG Halo ties into this, somewhat (in)directly.
>
> Look at COD now, the fanbase wants “boots on the ground” and they’re getting it. They’re lucky to still have a good amount of their fans that are vocal, because it works… they’re keeping the devs in check. I’m not saying Halo needs to go full blown classic, but the capability to play classic Halo gameplay w/ the classic playlists in MM would be appreciated, as would these playlist with modern gameplay (which is great in H5) as well.
>
> They’re altering the structure and formula too much! People expect the Halo “experience” with each edition of the game. That means good maps, modes, playlists, good campaign/story. Feature rich… H5 has a total of 3 Arena gamemodes, not counting Assault (where is that now? lol)… not acceptable given the series track record.
>
> You can’t make this stuff up man… haha

Um… What? CTF, Slayer, Strongholds, Assault (which does count, btw), SWAT, FFA, Breakout 2.0, all the stuff in Action Sack, Fiesta, Doubles, Infection, Grifball, and others I can’t think of off the top of my head. Even if you don’t like them they’re all distinct gamemodes currently available in matchmaking. And that’s not even mentioning the sheer amount of possible gamemodes offered by Halo 5’s Custom Games and Forge. Halo 5 may lack a good story and a good progression system, but content and features are definitely there in droves. Almost the entire Halo sandbox is currently in Halo 5 and yet people are still salty over it not being there at launch. I don’t care. If I enjoy a game I’ll play it and remember it for its high points, not its lows (which is how most people see Bungie’s games, through rose-tinted glasses). I’m still not really pleased with Halo 5 overall, and I haven’t played it regularly in months. But what I really can’t stand are arguments and statements made with poor or false evidence, no acknowledgement of the counterargument, and endless -Yoinking!- statements saying “You’re not a True™ Halo Fan if you like 343i’s games.” Your argument isn’t the worst I’ve seen (by far), but you still use false evidence (“3 gamemodes”), and you completely disregard the counterargument by effectively saying that its supporters aren’t qualified to make a valid opinion. Anyone can have an opinion, but you can’t make an effective argument to persuade people that your opinion is better if you don’t support your claims with verifiable evidence or acknowledging the validity of the other side. Your argument has done nothing to convince me that your view of modern Halo is better than anyone else’s.

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> I call bs on your stats. Am I doing this right?

Nowhere on this thread has anyone claimed anything about stats!! I’ve been over the whole thread and seen nothing stckrboy!!! /s

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> > 2533274873580796;14:
> > > 2533274796457055;13:
> > > > 2533274873580796;12:
> > > > > 2533274796457055;10:
> > > > > > 2533274873580796;9:
> > > > > > > 2533274796457055;7:
> > > > > > > You can’t dismiss those that started with Reach or Halo 4 like that. They still get a voice and an opinion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2533274873580796;6:
> > > > > > > > Halo needs to be Halo, and player expectations need to be met in terms of the kind of in-game variety it offers… not in menu screens selecting armor, skins, character models, etc., but in all aspects and content that pertain to HOW you physically PLAY and experience the game. People need to understand that…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Again, why do YOU get to decide what Halo is? Of course Halo is different to you than someone who started with Halo Reach. That doesn’t mean their opinion doesn’t matter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’re conflating what you want in a Halo game with what a Halo game should have. Just because YOU don’t want skins or different armor doesn’t mean that it isn’t a part of the game at this point.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Your opinion is no less valid than someone else’s. You aren’t the deciding factor. What you do for a living has no bearing on things. I’ve also played since CE and I like skins, I like armor changing. Why does your opinion trump mine?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s in the statistics man… Halo has fallen once the formula/structure was altered and they started throwing imbalanced variables into the gameplay… I’m not trying to be right or be THE GUY lol. This is about Halo… I just hope that people can look at the facts, take a good, hard objective look at what Halo has been, what it needs to be, and arrive at the same conclusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know for a fact that most Halo fans do not spend the time thinking about the game like I do. It’s a lot more willy-nilly like I said. But the causes and effects are there. And again, as I said before, we can either be PC about it, or we can acknowledge what’s happened to the Halo series…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One avenue will get the series on track, and the other we will continue to see mediocrity tainting the franchise. It’s our choice as a community…
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh interesting. Can you share your stats sources please?
> > > >
> > > > They’ve been widely known for a while now… look at the sales and population numbers. You mods, of all people, should know this.
> > > >
> > > > The core of the game changed, it became something other than what had been established as “Halo” and people started fizzling out…
> > > >
> > > > The OG Arena players are now a dying breed as a result… sad.
> > >
> > > Being a mod doesn’t grant special privilege or a peek into the stats.
> > >
> > > Again, you’re making the claims. Sources please.
> >
> > Lol… they’re all over the Internet bro! Google Halo sales… XBL Halo population bar graphs… the numbers are there.
> >
> > Not sure what you’re trying to pull… but the facts are there to acknowledge. Whether you want to or not, that’s your decision.
>
> So you’ve got nothing but speculation. Got it.
>
> I want official MS sources. You’re making the claims ergo they must exist, right? The onus is on you to back up your claims, not me to dig through a bunch of tin-foil hats.

9.7 million UNITS (correction) for H4… huge MP population drop off in mere months… only 5+ million~ for H5… obviously some people were turned off from the series huh?

H3 had over 12 million units in sales? I wonder why there’s such a down-turn starting with Reach… Hmm… these numbers obviously came from some type of press release, nobody is making them up.

Can I ask you one thing… why are you so salty?? :laughing: