Halo MP and the 15 seconds of fun

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

First off, Halo MC looks great and I can’t wait. It’s the game I’ve been waiting for and finally decided to get an Xbone at the end of the year because of it. I would have preferred Halo reach instead of 4, but I understand the logic (hopefully we can get Reach and ODST as campaign DLC later) I also feel like H4 is being forced down our throats at this point, but I have faith the community will pick mostly trilogy games to play (H4’s online community backs me up)

However. We are getting Halo 5 Guardians Beta with it, with all “new abilities”

I figured, great they messed up and are just changing them, then I read the tweet.

“Spartan Abilities are player mechanics and not Load outs AAs”

So I’ve kinda had to guess what that meant. my best guess (I had a few but this makes more sense given the wording).

SAs are abilities all spartans have access to all the time. ex. Double jump (press A twice) Ground pound (press jump then duck) as so on in such a fashion.

I mean this adds new things to the gameplay without leaving players who have a different loadout vulnerable to an opponent. It makes it even. maybe even competitive still.

And no I don’t like the idea. It continues the now standard formula of messing with Halo’s core gameplay, the 15 seconds of fun, the “guns, grenades, and melee”. Adding anything that ISN’T a pick up on the map will ultimately affect every firefight you have. Just as sprint, instant spawning, flinch and the rest of the list a thousand others have made.

Halo MC redeems 343i in many ways, not perfect but it’s silly to think it would be. Maybe H4 is still souring my taste. I got called silly for thinking the Halo 5 beta would actually affect the gameplay mechanics of the final release, but turns out we are getting it a year before launch, so now everyone is changing their stance on its importance.

But do people here like the sound of Spartan Abilities?

Will they change the game just as bad?

Is it just a small part of the game?

And lastly, when we play the beta, will we really make a difference, if we didn’t like the new SAs, do you think 343i would remove something they will have been working very hard on?

2

Considering 343 said they wouldnt do a beta because it was a waste of time and now they are. I strongly believe that our opinion will count this time.

343 knows they messed up and need to make halo 5 work. Im personally happy to see something that everyone has and AA ares gone from Halo 5.

AAs ruined halo for the most part there were some that could work but most were just wrong. AC for 1 should have never been something you can spawn with.

3

> And lastly, when we play the beta, will we really make a difference, if we didn’t like the new SAs, do you think 343i would remove something they will have been working very hard on?

Of course not, removing features already built into the game would be a colossal waste of time. They simply need to tweak it until it is at a usable level.

4

I’m interested to see what they are. A slide to cover wouldn’t be too bad. As long as there is even starts across the board I’m happy. I’d really hate to see different characters have different abilities. I think they are having the beta so early to actually listen to feedback and have time to make changes. However, after Halo 4 I remain skeptical until I have the game in my hands. At least I can fall back to Halo CE & 2 if it sucks.

5

> And no I don’t like the idea. It continues the now standard formula of messing with Halo’s core gameplay, the 15 seconds of fun, the “guns, grenades, and melee”.

So did dual-wielding, boarding, and assassinations, and they didn’t break the game on their own.

Now, 343i has yet to earn my trust that they know what they’re doing, so like you, I’m skeptical. But I’m not going to be definitive in my opinion until I actually see them.

6

> > And no I don’t like the idea. It continues the now standard formula of messing with Halo’s core gameplay, the 15 seconds of fun, the “guns, grenades, and melee”.
>
> So did dual-wielding, boarding, and assassinations, and they’re didn’t break the game on their own.
>
> Now, 343i has yet to earn my trust that they know what they’re doing, so like you, I’m skeptical. But I’m not going to be definitive in my opinion until I actually see them.

And this my friends is how you go about new features.

7

> However. We are getting Halo 5 Guardians Beta with it, with all “new abilities”
>
> “Spartan Abilities are player mechanics and not Load outs AAs”
>
> SAs are abilities all spartans have access to all the time. ex. Double jump (press A twice) Ground pound (press jump then duck) as so on in such a fashion.
>
> It continues the now standard formula of messing with Halo’s core gameplay, the 15 seconds of fun, the “guns, grenades, and melee”.

Some of these abilities may fall into the “melee” category. And who knows, maybe the triangle will change with addition of SA’s. If they work well then I would say it would change it to “guns, grenades, and movement”, in which melee would be included in movement as it is CQC. So they might be able to change the formula up and make it better. But, 343 could also screw it up.

8

> Adding anything that ISN’T a pick up on the map will ultimately affect every firefight you have.

Implying that’s inherently bad.
Implying additional depth is bad.

Melee, jumping, crouching, etc impact every fight you have. The game wouldn’t automatically be better off with those things removed.

> if we didn’t like the new SAs, do you think 343i would remove something they will have been working very hard on?

For better or worse I want Halo 5 to be its own game.

With the MCC I can play vastly improved Halo CE any time I want. I don’t need two copies of it.

9

Technically these “Spartan Abilities” aren’t anything new. Boarding vehicles for example. It’s just been given a name.

Now, additional mechanics like sliding a short distance under cover would be kind of neat actually - It’d be like Evade almost from Reach, except everyone could do it, and the distance wouldn’t be as great.

The ‘groundpound’ animation has me curious. How would you use it? Why would you use it? When would you? Or was that just colorful artistic license for the sake of CGI? We won’t know right away, but it has me more curious than worried.

10

> Now, additional mechanics like sliding a short distance under cover would be kind of neat actually - It’d be like Evade almost from Reach, except everyone could do it, and the distance wouldn’t be as great.
>
> The ‘groundpound’ animation has me curious. How would you use it? Why would you use it? When would you? Or was that just colorful artistic license for the sake of CGI? We won’t know right away, but it has me more curious than worried.

If Thruster is a base movement ability, why limit it to horizontal movement only?

Thruster button + Stick direction = Thrust in that direction (even while airborne)

Thruster button while crouched on the ground + Stick direction = Crouch thrust or “slide” in that direction

Holding crouch button while airborne + Thruster button = Downward thrust dive or “ground pound”

Jump button while airborne = Upward thrust jump

The Ground Pound maneuver would do the same thing that Thruster does in every other direction: move you faster.

If you were chasing an enemy down a hallway you could thrust to close the distance between you and him.

Now, if an enemy drops off of a structure, you can give vertical chase faster than gravity can pull him down.

The ground pound animation at the end should just be a quick animation that stops player movement for the briefest of moments, no gravity hammer blast around the point of impact. The game needs to stop the player for a moment after a ground pound to prevent players from translating that super fast fall speed into super fast horizontal movement speed by landing on a downward ramp and performing a slide jump. You could send yourself across Blood Gulch with a move like that.

You know those math problems that were like “Bus A is $5 to board and 10 cents per mile. Bus B is $0 to board and 50 cents per mile. Which bus is less expensive if you are traveling 12 miles?” It is the same idea with ground pound. The player decides if performing the landing animation is worth the time or if the fall is short enough that he will just drop down normally.

11

> > Now, additional mechanics like sliding a short distance under cover would be kind of neat actually - It’d be like Evade almost from Reach, except everyone could do it, and the distance wouldn’t be as great.
> >
> > The ‘groundpound’ animation has me curious. How would you use it? Why would you use it? When would you? Or was that just colorful artistic license for the sake of CGI? We won’t know right away, but it has me more curious than worried.
>
> If Thruster is a base movement ability, why limit it to horizontal movement only?
>
> Thruster button + Stick direction = Thrust in that direction (even while airborne)
>
> Thruster button while crouched on the ground + Stick direction = Crouch thrust or “slide” in that direction
>
> Holding crouch button while airborne + Thruster button = Downward thrust dive or “ground pound”
>
> Jump button while airborne = Upward thrust jump
>
> The Ground Pound maneuver would do the same thing that Thruster does in every other direction: move you faster.
>
> If you were chasing an enemy down a hallway you could thrust to close the distance between you and him.
>
> Now, if an enemy drops off of a structure, you can give vertical chase faster than gravity can pull him down.
>
> The ground pound animation at the end should just be a quick animation that stops player movement for the briefest of moments, no gravity hammer blast around the point of impact. The game needs to stop the player for a moment after a ground pound to prevent players from translating that super fast fall speed into super fast horizontal movement speed by landing on a downward ramp and performing a slide jump. You could send yourself across Blood Gulch with a move like that.
>
> You know those math problems that were like “Bus A is $5 to board and 10 cents per mile. Bus B is $0 to board and 50 cents per mile. Which bus is less expensive if you are traveling 12 miles?” It is the same idea with ground pound. The player decides if performing the landing animation is worth the time or if the fall is short enough that he will just drop down normally.

My guess is the ground pound will be like air stomp from crysis.

12

Just because it isn’t a gun, grenade, or fist doesn’t make it inherently wrong. While the golden triangle is proven effective, if you keep making the same game over and over without evolving it and simply recreating it with a shiny new skin… you get CoD. For those most vocal about preventing Halo from becoming CoD, the competitive community sure is adamant about sending it down the same avenue…

13

> > Adding anything that ISN’T a pick up on the map will ultimately affect every firefight you have.
>
> Implying that’s inherently bad.
> Implying additional depth is bad.
>
> Melee, jumping, crouching, etc impact every fight you have. The game wouldn’t automatically be better off with those things removed.

Maybe my explanation was over simplified. I think where I dislike the idea of them is when they are used in an offensive manner.

I don’t consider Boarding a game breaker because it wasn’t a fight by fight game changer, only against vehicles. Also dual wielding while available to everyone, you never spawned with two weapons equipped.

Never the less, I love Boarding and I loved Dual Wielding.

I@m glad I made this thread because hearing everyone’s opinion and “the other side”, has helped me get a better idea of how SAs will act in a Mp match and I@m less scared now and more anxious to see how they have been implemented.

To the post above^. You misjudge, or misunderstand us competitive players. I get that it sounds we just want old school halo back, and in a sense we do. We are also getting that with MCC. With Halo 5 and future Halos we just want the rush back. When the game is even, when it’s intense and the whole point is to win by the skin of your teeth, the game is exciting. Many new features added in the last two games detracted from that focus, and it left Reach feeling lackluster and Halo 4 just feel empty. Despite how well things like animation, graphics and weapon feel were done.

14

I think we just need to wait and see. As long as these things are not get out of jail free cards like thruster pack (which I abuse the hell out of) or jet pack. Having thruster pack and sprint is already pushing it as I rarely find myself in a situation I can’t escape if need be. If they add a few more things like that and make them a standard ability, we might have problems. What made previous Halo games so fun to me was that it was just raw gun on gun skill. Being a step ahead of your opponent never hurt either. There was no running away from combat or thrusting behind a wall right before you got headshotted or jumping and jet packing to survive the grenade at your feet etc. It came down to “guns grenade melee”. Knowing how to be effective with this trinity was the key to success. Now it’s “Guns Grenades Melee and if that fails, Flee”.

15

> Just because it isn’t a gun, grenade, or fist doesn’t make it inherently wrong. While the golden triangle is proven effective, if you keep making the same game over and over without evolving it and simply recreating it with a shiny new skin… you get CoD. For those most vocal about preventing Halo from becoming CoD, the competitive community sure is adamant about sending it down the same avenue…

If it ain’t broke… sorry if you’re bored with it. Maybe go play something else. I don’t see anyone ever campaigning for their favorite band to start mixing things up. In fact, the minute a band tries something even slightly different, everyone busts out the torches and pitchforks. I play Halo because I like Halo. Therefore I would prefer they keep it Halo. Change for the sake of change is rarely, if ever, the answer.

16

> > Now, additional mechanics like sliding a short distance under cover would be kind of neat actually - It’d be like Evade almost from Reach, except everyone could do it, and the distance wouldn’t be as great.
> >
> > The ‘groundpound’ animation has me curious. How would you use it? Why would you use it? When would you? Or was that just colorful artistic license for the sake of CGI? We won’t know right away, but it has me more curious than worried.
>
> If Thruster is a base movement ability, why limit it to horizontal movement only?
>
> Thruster button + Stick direction = Thrust in that direction (even while airborne)
>
> Thruster button while crouched on the ground + Stick direction = Crouch thrust or “slide” in that direction
>
> Holding crouch button while airborne + Thruster button = Downward thrust dive or “ground pound”
>
> Jump button while airborne = Upward thrust jump
>
> The Ground Pound maneuver would do the same thing that Thruster does in every other direction: move you faster.
>
> If you were chasing an enemy down a hallway you could thrust to close the distance between you and him.
>
> Now, if an enemy drops off of a structure, you can give vertical chase faster than gravity can pull him down.
>
> The ground pound animation at the end should just be a quick animation that stops player movement for the briefest of moments, no gravity hammer blast around the point of impact. The game needs to stop the player for a moment after a ground pound to prevent players from translating that super fast fall speed into super fast horizontal movement speed by landing on a downward ramp and performing a slide jump. You could send yourself across Blood Gulch with a move like that.
>
> You know those math problems that were like “Bus A is $5 to board and 10 cents per mile. Bus B is $0 to board and 50 cents per mile. Which bus is less expensive if you are traveling 12 miles?” It is the same idea with ground pound. The player decides if performing the landing animation is worth the time or if the fall is short enough that he will just drop down normally.

Thruster pack should stick horizontal movement. It doesn’t have to be any more complex than it is in Halo 4 in regards to upwards movement. I say this because you can already thruster pack upwards in Halo 4 so long as you time up your jumping early and correctly. When you do this right, you have people capable of using thrusters to ninja someone. I know this, I have been a victim of this type of person.

If you played with infinite thrusters in customs, you’d catch on to how you can thruster upwards and not horizontally in the air. It’s not going to be as perfect as jet pack, but you are still going up in some sense.

17

> Considering 343 said they wouldnt do a beta because it was a waste of time and now they are. I strongly believe that our opinion will count this time.
>
> 343 knows they messed up and need to make halo 5 work. Im personally happy to see something that everyone has and AA ares gone from Halo 5.
>
> AAs ruined halo for the most part there were some that could work but most were just wrong. AC for 1 should have never been something you can spawn with.

Halo 4’s was definitely a step forward compared to Reach’s, and considering they’re keeping Halo 2’s MP completely intact with Halo MCC, I’m sure that they’re listening to the diehard fans from the old days.

It may never get close to the days of glory in H2/H3 but I believe in 343 and they feel truly passionate about Halo. I’m sure they will not disappoint!

> I think we just need to wait and see. As long as these things are not get out of jail free cards like thruster pack (which I abuse the hell out of) or jet pack. Having thruster pack and sprint is already pushing it as I rarely find myself in a situation I can’t escape if need be. If they add a few more things like that and make them a standard ability, we might have problems. What made previous Halo games so fun to me was that it was just raw gun on gun skill. Being a step ahead of your opponent never hurt either. There was no running away from combat or thrusting behind a wall right before you got headshotted or jumping and jet packing to survive the grenade at your feet etc. It came down to “guns grenade melee”. Knowing how to be effective with this trinity was the key to success. Now it’s “Guns Grenades Melee and if that fails, Flee”.

I think some armour abilities, like the Thruster, are interesting because they can make some small fights more interesting and can open up some really cool escape/jumps on maps. Jet Pack however should really go IMO. It completely breaks map design and will be too hard to balance IMO.
Agree with the Guns/Nades/Melee trinity which made Halo’s MP really unique and fun, but maybe it is time to slowly change up the game. I know AAs change the game a bit but honestly for the most part none have really taken away from the whole Guns/Grenades/Melee core of the game. Some though are just boring and shouldn’t exist. Thank God 343 caught onto that with bloody Armour Lock.

18

> > Considering 343 said they wouldnt do a beta because it was a waste of time and now they are. I strongly believe that our opinion will count this time.
> >
> > 343 knows they messed up and need to make halo 5 work. Im personally happy to see something that everyone has and AA ares gone from Halo 5.
> >
> > AAs ruined halo for the most part there were some that could work but most were just wrong. AC for 1 should have never been something you can spawn with.
>
> Halo 4’s was definitely a step forward compared to Reach’s, and considering they’re keeping Halo 2’s MP completely intact with Halo MCC, I’m sure that they’re listening to the diehard fans from the old days.
>
> It may never get close to the days of glory in H2/H3 but I believe in 343 and they feel truly passionate about Halo. I’m sure they will not disappoint!
>
>
>
>
> > I think we just need to wait and see. As long as these things are not get out of jail free cards like thruster pack (which I abuse the hell out of) or jet pack. Having thruster pack and sprint is already pushing it as I rarely find myself in a situation I can’t escape if need be. If they add a few more things like that and make them a standard ability, we might have problems. What made previous Halo games so fun to me was that it was just raw gun on gun skill. Being a step ahead of your opponent never hurt either. There was no running away from combat or thrusting behind a wall right before you got headshotted or jumping and jet packing to survive the grenade at your feet etc. It came down to “guns grenade melee”. Knowing how to be effective with this trinity was the key to success. Now it’s “Guns Grenades Melee and if that fails, Flee”.
>
> I think some armour abilities, like the Thruster, are interesting because they can make some small fights more interesting and can open up some really cool escape/jumps on maps. Jet Pack however should really go IMO. It completely breaks map design and will be too hard to balance IMO.
> Agree with the Guns/Nades/Melee trinity which made Halo’s MP really unique and fun, but maybe it is time to slowly change up the game. I know AAs change the game a bit but honestly for the most part none have really taken away from the whole Guns/Grenades/Melee core of the game. Some though are just boring and shouldn’t exist. Thank God 343 caught onto that with bloody Armour Lock.

It does though. The ability to read your opponent and the play is undermined with all of these variables. It makes encounters feel cheap and predetermined. They need to go.