What i feel halo is missing right now is the feeling of reward. we are getting everything spoon fed to us like a bunch of babies.
With custom loadouts i dont have to worry about grabbing the nearest plasma pistol or sticky-nades when a tank is destroying my team. I can just pop them out as soon as i die.
And with ordinance drops all i do is get a couple of kills and boom! instant rocket launcher right in front of me. (with extra ammo added sometimes)
Halo to me is now extremely boring now that i everything served to me on a silver platter. There’s no skill involved, there’s no searching frantically across the map to find a weapon, and the only reward i get is more armor.
ALSO: sorry for the title. You cant get much heard on this forum without a little animosity. Which kind of sucks.
If you look from just your in game perspective you arrive at your outlook, as many do.
If you look at the game from ALL player perspectives over the course of one single game you understand the reason loadouts and ordnance are in modern FPS games like Halo 4. Players do NOT want only one player on the game picking up a weapon on the map and maybe getting to use the power weapon once per game, that’s if they’re not getting spawn killed by a practised team who memorise and force spawns etc.
I agree the randomness of personal ordnance should be moved to set options in a tiered structure so all players have the same choices between rewards. I also think global ordnance should be broadcast to all players for 5 or so seconds before they drop.
This way the game rewards skill-based behaviour, rewarda team work, allows everyone their fair chance at dynamic map/spawn control, alleviates spawn kill farming and cheap objective holding with power weapons/vehicles while providing a mostly fair and balanced approach between regular teams vs. random teams. Each player has a loadout to enjoy their preferred game play, not based on a 7/8 chance and even less when on a team of randoms.
I also agree playlists and settings should provide a disparate mix of classic and Infinity style game types as well as variety of game play. Ranked playlists should be more trimmed down on randomness but the competitive community also needs to move their game with the times and introduce more game types, differing maps and a bit more of the sandbox too.
There is nothing wrong with having classic with some voting options of say 80/20 hardcore/trimmed Infinity and other Infinity, niche or objective playlists 80/20 for Infinity/classic settings.
Provide weighted experiences based on playlists but give them a taste of each others settings in the lesser voting weights. Not so difficult now is it.
The real difficulty is player/community mentality change.
> If you look from just your in game perspective you arrive at your outlook, as many do.
>
> If you look at the game from ALL player perspectives over the course of one single game you understand the reason loadouts and ordnance are in modern FPS games like Halo 4. Players do NOT want only one player on the game picking up a weapon on the map and maybe getting to use the power weapon once per game, that’s if they’re not getting spawn killed by a practised team who memorise and force spawns etc.
>
> I agree the randomness of personal ordnance should be moved to set options in a tiered structure so all players have the same choices between rewards. I also think global ordnance should be broadcast to all players for 5 or so seconds before they drop.
>
> This way the game rewards skill-based behaviour, rewarda team work, allows everyone their fair chance at dynamic map/spawn control, alleviates spawn kill farming and cheap objective holding with power weapons/vehicles while providing a mostly fair and balanced approach between regular teams vs. random teams. Each player has a loadout to enjoy their preferred game play, not based on a 7/8 chance and even less when on a team of randoms.
>
> I also agree playlists and settings should provide a disparate mix of classic and Infinity style game types as well as variety of game play. Ranked playlists should be more trimmed down on randomness but the competitive community also needs to move their game with the times and introduce more game types, differing maps and a bit more of the sandbox too.
>
> There is nothing wrong with having classic with some voting options of say 80/20 hardcore/trimmed Infinity and other Infinity, niche or objective playlists 80/20 for Infinity/classic settings.
>
> Provide weighted experiences based on playlists but give them a taste of each others settings in the lesser voting weights. Not so difficult now is it.
>
> The real difficulty is player/community mentality change.
Yes i could live with a few of these changes, however that doesn’t change the matter that this game was made with “easy mode” in mind. Im sorry to sound one minded here but i miss tradition. And this game really does break it a lot. Giving new players a misguided look on halo and old players a sting where it hurts.
> Yes i could live with a few of these changes, however that doesn’t change the matter that this game was made with “easy mode” in mind. Im sorry to sound one minded here but i miss tradition. And this game really does break it a lot. Giving new players a misguided look on halo and old players a sting where it hurts.
I’ve posted this a few times with similar member views as yours…
TL;DR
The casual crowd and getting a new audience was their vision initially. They stated publicly they wanted to give their version of the game a real good run for a couple of months first. They’ve already started altering many playlists and settings in the last month particularly, received doubles/snipers and weekly exploit fixes already, we’ve got a lot set for this month (TU, map pack, SPOPS ending) and more wih CSR for April. I’m sure they have more willingness internally post XMAS to deliver the good old classic experience, hopefully the maps are up to it. I hope they continue to have a streamlines but varied experience between Halo 4 default (infinity-style) and real classic Halo too.
This issue gets brought up a lot on here. Whether or not he new mechanics of Halo 4 result in a experience based on more randomness and less skill. A lot of people have made some really good arguments rather than just complaining. But it certainly changes things up when before halo 4, one could deduce what weapons the other team may or may not have based of off the weapons their own team has and adjust their strategy accordingly.
For example, It’s really frustrating when your team has the sword and scattershot on Adrift towards the beginning of the match. You see a red dot around the corner. You throw a grenage then jump around with your AR to finish him off and BAM he’s got another scattershot from an ordinance drop.
Some argue this change forces people to stay more “on their toes” and that if you’re really good you’ll be able to win regardless. But the addition of loadouts and personal ordinance drops adds a large number of variables that are nearly impossible to account for and makes it difficult to formulate a specific team strategy.
One of the draw backs that I’ve encountered a couple times results when you have two teams taking an defensive style of play. Even on smaller maps like Adrift it ends up with each team waiting for the other team to “come to them.” This really slows down the play, but it makes sense because no one wants to run around the corner into a Sticky detonator, sniper rifle, shotgun, hammer, sword, etc.
So while i thank Ozzy for his thoughtful post above, much of which i agree with, there are some players who DO WANT only one player to have the power weapon on the map so their team can plan accordingly.
It’s got to be a challenge to make a game like this because people will always find a reason to complain. You can’t please everyone, But Halo 4 is certainly different from all its predecessors. I enjoy playing it. I prefer the older style mechanics before Halo 4, but I’ve had to suck it up a bit and make some changes, In addition to respectfully voicing my opinion when i can to hopefully get some better options in the future.
Game on!
Games are getting more and more accesible to attract newer customers. Its an apparent trend in video games nowadays.
> So while i thank Ozzy for his thoughtful post above, much of which i agree with, there are some players who DO WANT only one player to have the power weapon on the map so their team can plan accordingly.
I completely agree this style of play is intrinsic to what Halo MM games used to be about. I too want the playlist/option to play those basically exact settings. I endlessly played ranked objective H3 for that amazing team work gameplay which did determine win or lose.
I just disagree with some who want the whole of Halo 4 playlists to be like that. There is nothing wrong with having both. In fact the Halo community essentially demands having the variety of both.
IMO 343i dropped the ball by not having the “real classic settings and maps” available at launch and/or in Forge as well. However I understand the studio decision to really go with a unified Halo 4 version. After Reach I think this was really required but it was just taken a little too far an alienated some parts of the community/game types.
We’re getting back to that nice balance these days.
> Games are getting more and more accesible to attract newer customers. Its an apparent trend in video games nowadays.
So very true but on the other hand I never had any issues in being very competitive in Mario Kart where there were all sorts of hidden “casual code snippets” to go against the hardcore player and help the new player. It’s possible to make both camps happy.
Again Mario Kart had an amazing balance between new friendliness and hardcore skills. They also had game modes like time trial and later on you could download other “ghosts” to race against for those seriously skilled time based games. It lends more weight to the playlists variety argument.
In my humble opinion I do have to agree with this post. Infinity Slayer (as it is right now) should be placed in a Social playlist, or like Halo 3 did have a bootcamp playlist which is essentially for complete newcomers to the series to jump into to learn the absolute basics of Halo game play. Once you reach a certain skill ranking this playlist is no longer available to you.
Infinity Slayer can be tuned to be much more competitive but as it stands right now the randomness of it is dragging the game down. This is coming from someone who loves playing Halo 4.
> that’s if they’re not getting spawn killed by a practised team who memorise and force spawns etc.
ANYONE can do that.
You don’t have to be a super-special super-professional player to spend 15 minutes walking around in a map memorizing weapon locations.
Lazy players are losing because the people who took the time to research are winning? How is that a bad thing?
I agree that weapons should have markers for the sake of convenience, but there is no excuse for making the entire system random just because people can’t take the time to practice or research.
> Players do NOT want only one player on the game picking up a weapon on the map and maybe getting to use the power weapon once per game
Do you think anyone does? That still doesn’t justify power weapons being plentiful in-game, they are called POWER weapons for a reason.
Rather than demanding everyone gets a power weapon so the game is horrifically imbalanced, just step your game up.
Because, quite frankly, there should never be five snipers in play at the same time, but I’ve seen it far too often.
> here were all sorts of hidden “casual code snippets” to go against the hardcore player and help the new player. It’s possible to make both camps happy.
Double Jeopardy Time:
What is Dual Wielding?
What is an Automatic Weapon?
What is a Ranking System?
What are Vehicles?
Cod + fiesta slayer = halo 4
Well, Devs figure if they make a Noob friendly game that needs no strategy to play… ppl will flock to it like they do to COD…
nobody wants games that are to hard or to complicated you no longer need stragedy or tactics to beat games these days. it sucks for the people who truly like to challenge a game when everything is just handed down or jumps to an instant cut scene or when there a checkpoint every 4 minutes you dont fill the sense that you truly accomplished anything ! me my self enjoy challenges in video games but halo 4 is way to child friendly for my taste and lets not even talk about mp i just hope the next halo game promotes true challenges and requires skill from players
> > that’s if they’re not getting spawn killed by a practised team who memorise and force spawns etc.
>
> ANYONE can do that.
>
> You don’t have to be a super-special super-professional player to spend 15 minutes walking around in a map memorizing weapon locations.
>
> Lazy players are losing because the people who took the time to research are winning? How is that a bad thing?
>
> I agree that weapons should have markers for the sake of convenience, but there is no excuse for making the entire system random just because people can’t take the time to practice or research.
>
>
>
> > Players do NOT want only one player on the game picking up a weapon on the map and maybe getting to use the power weapon once per game
>
> Do you think anyone does? That still doesn’t justify power weapons being plentiful in-game, they are called POWER weapons for a reason.
>
> Rather than demanding everyone gets a power weapon so the game is horrifically imbalanced, just step your game up.
>
> Because, quite frankly, there should never be five snipers in play at the same time, but I’ve seen it far too often.
>
>
>
> > here were all sorts of hidden “casual code snippets” to go against the hardcore player and help the new player. It’s possible to make both camps happy.
>
> Double Jeopardy Time:
>
> What is Dual Wielding?
> What is an Automatic Weapon?
> What is a Ranking System?
> What are Vehicles?
1. Spawn memorisation, killing & farming:
So players use phones/websites/physical timers so they know when to go to a weapon spawn. Somehow making this in game engine is a bad thing? If you take this one line out of context it seems like I want the whole game that way, you missed the main point in my post about playlists giving the variety. Hardcore classic playlists should have on map spawns and no random personal ordnance where other more “Infinity” based playlists should have the ability for some change. I also detailed a tiered structure that gives all ordnances achieved the SAME choices, guess you missed that part by taking this one line out of context.
It is not lazy players, I’m not a computer and I don’t want to play like one. Further a single player is not capable of spawn trapping, forcing spawns or even killing an entire team off spawn. Just look at abandon setups and you know exactly what I am talking about. Again playlists should accomodate this play but not for the majority of playlists, there is a reason BOTH Bungie and 343i have been designing to remove spawn killing from the game.
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I never said make the system random, go back and read what I did say and don’t put words in my mouth in your replies, nor take what I say out of context.
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I agree some game types enter the realm of insane numbers of power weapons. Again providing the tiered structured personal ordnance or better global ordnance by design through more tweaks to settings is the answer. We can see 343i have a fast timer to reduce the pick up of power weapons and their sheer quantity in play numbers. They just need to remove the personal ordnance random factor and this will also naturally reduce the power weapon surplus you describe and I agree with.
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I never demanded power weapons, I just propose a tiered personal ordnance system that is the same for everyone and predictable in the options you’ll be presented. Remember the Reach invasion tiered approach to loadouts, similar to that.
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Double Jeopardy:
Sure those are there for newer plays but regular teams and skilled players of those points will dominate newer players here once again. I have no issue with a skilled player being rewarded.
I think overall you took some things out of context and pushed your own points too hard without really taking in what I was saying in its entirety. I hope my replies help you understand the perspective I was going for, it was not a random one at all.