hahaha…no.
It is you that doesn’t understand halo, sir.
You can read Ex Bungie devs tweets on how Halo was meant to be a fun party game. Like a LAN experience
https://twitter.com/MaxHoberman/status/1565547802729611264?s=20&t=-kp9DPHQzZHSSEax2vfVNQ
A game can be competitive without placing competition over fun. Bungie endured the game would be fun first and any competitive angle would develop naturally from the fanbase, as it did. 343 from Halo 5 onwards has tried to push the game in a less social direction in attempts to reel in new fans from another sect of gaming, as opposed to catering to what made original fans enjoy the game in the first place.
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You would think so right?
But actually max hoberman (lead designer and main call maker for H2mp)
is on record for not being remotely concerned with competitive play.
His goals were accessibility,
reducing frustration: like not having crazy map curvature a la sidewinder only 90 degree angles to improve map navigation,
making sure they have something for everyone, communication and fun.
And as much variability as he could get into his mp suite.
He didnt have any real say in balancing weapons even though the campaign folks used his department as a test bed.
For example fall damage and ladders were removed from mp because he said they werent fun and both made early adopters more cautious. Ladders were clunky and falling off caused frustration and even death in early builds so he scrapped both and the grav lifts were made a core map element in the design of level geometry to remove these issues.
He just wanted to make a fun experience for as many as possible with map knowledge and spawns being the intention of making more chaos by funneling players into death zones. But this as it would in any game routed in arena style spaces lead to an easy translation into competitive behaviours.
He really didnt have the seniority to dictate the smaller things that are focused on when designing for competitive play.
And the other leads were building with the goal of making a fun and epic single player experience not a competitive game.
So its a safe bet that halo2s competitve features were likely an unintended result of just trying to make a fun experience that would showcase xbox live.
Crazy to think halo 2 and 3 dominated esports by being built for everyone to just hop in and enjoy and the skill gap and sandbox creating its own esports meta naturally huh?
But i guess the ground breaking approach to community features and ease of access co.pared to other games at the time just supported this sort of specialisation within the fan base and niche sub communities thrived as a result. Ask any given fan what it meams to be a halo game and almost no answer is the same. Thats the sign of a truly special franchise imo. Max hobbermans “something for everyone” design goal where building a base of fun that players can alter for their own unexpected needs at work.
@mr_taco47 to be fair reach began the trend you lamemt not 343i.
Any of us from back in the day remember reach and remember “dont tell sage, cause he’ll nerf it.” They brought competitve design elements in house and it had a negative knock on effect for that games longevity and success in relation to its predecessors.
Equipment were turned into player power traits with a competitve nature rather than interactive map elements that added an added layer of chaos to any given encounter.
Bloom tried modify how the skill gap worked and dictate more than ever a weapons role in pvp. Etc.
To place the burden squarely on 343i is disingenuous and while ive many critiques of the studios games.
It must be acknowledged that reach deviated greatly from the core of halos philosophy.
It was destiny0 and halo 4 was reach 2.0 ironically beating destiny to the punch of an online story focused mmofpslike approach. Spartan ops being just a lower budget version of destinys whole gimmick.
Admittedly halo 5 saw a major doubling down when 343i wrongly felt halos dna was a competitive sweaty shooter over a chaotic party game with modular parts.
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I think the amount of changes Halo 3 MLG had is evidence of the fact there was a distinct difference between eSports, ranked and social. Even the ranked modes had super undesirable gametypes and maps.
Halo 3 MLG had increased speed, damage, changes to spawns, changes to radar, changes to how weapon’s spawned, reduced weapon pool, no equipment, no vehicles, starting loadout changes, changes to objective settings, changes to weapon placements and custom powerup used because the overshield was borked. They even created two forge maps because the default maps were so undesirable for pure competitive play. MLG felt leagues different to even level 50 ranked.
Halo Infinite has almost identical settings in HCS, ranked and social. They have got a few changes, namely social has rotating weapons, different objective settings, couple more maps, radar and originally was different loadout. So it did feel different, but also still felt competitive by nature because everything is finely balanced. Compare this to Halo 3 where the balancing was all over the place.
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Oh for sure H3 ranked and H3MLG are 2 different games its like the jump from quake live to quake 3 arcade its so noticable haha.
But its certainly emblematic of the core issue i have with infinite as a project.
Since reveal it was ell empty marketing rhetoric about how 343i totaly get halo now.
But actions show they don’t.
The bulldog reveal was a perfect example although many on here said I was wrong.
Though my explanations were prob not as intelligible as they are now.
But its quite obvious that halos mainline success was not due to competitive play or design rather the social party game had the options to cater to that niche without detracting from overall fun factor.
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GBITH3F
Yeah I was around on b.old too, but Reach didn’t fully commit to tearing down what made Halo, Halo. Social features were further expanded and it has my favorite matchmaking experience to this day despite being my least favorite of the original 5 games. Reach, and even Halo 4 with its laundry list of problems and arcade-shooter multiplayer retained the integrated social features and still put fun before competition. Though most everyone just went back to Halo 3 & Reach after a few months, Halo 4 was the last Halo that genuinely felt like a Halo game. Halo 5 was a night and day difference, of which that can partially be attributed to the rise of Justin.tv now Twitch.tv.
Halo 4 and prior were designed with a different player base mindset than Halo 5 and Infinite
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Ya thats a succincte break down of the trajectory for sure.
Reach as great a halo game despite its marking of the beginning in the franchise’s slow departure from its core essential qualities.
Sorry, the most important thing 343 should be working on is (desync) in halo infinite. I looked up where the servers are for halo infinite yesterday and they are all very far from me. I’m in Florida. I have 2 ping fiber internet and I am very tired of my shots not registering. Is a level battle field too much to expect ??? This is 2022 and it is ridiculous !
As long as (desync) is an issue in halo infinite, the ranking system is meaningless and the multiplayer is so lopsided that the joy of playing is being sucked out of it !!!
You just got lucky, being in the sweet spot in relationship to a server. For many there is no hope of ranking up much due to desync issues. I also had desync issues in Guardians.
Here is what my expereince on Halo Gaurdians and Infinite Ranked Doubles is:
1st Game: I get the first shot on his head and don’t miss him once after repeatedly firing on him, but he kills me in 2 shots. My partner says he can not hit anything ! We lose big time !
2nd Game: I am running around slaying everything that moves. They are shooting at me. I win every gunfight. I feel sorry for them. They are clearly at the disatvantage-very unfair!!!
3rd Game: Games starts and a player or both players on other team leave.
4th Game: I get a noob partner and we get distroyed. I can’t carry him.
5th Game: The game seams balanced and we bearly win.
Then it REPEATS.
I have been playing Halo for 22 years and have played champions in Gaurdians and beat them.
I am presently stuck in the ranking of silver due to the servers and the DESYNC !!!
This game is so screwed up for many people like me who are not in the right geographical location to the servers, I guess? THE FUN IS BEING TOTALLY SUCKED OUT, 343 !!!
Agreed. Halo is a competitive shooter. It’s an Arena shooter, which is competitive by default.
You can make fun Arena competitive shooters, Halo is one of them. You can also make fun party game Arena shooters, which is exactly what Halo is.
But due to it being an Arena shooter, yes, it’s competitive by default.
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