Lol yeah that won’t happen.
I went 14-3 the other night and did not go up a single point. Onyx 1903. I lose one game and go to 1885. An 18 point loss after 14 wins with zero advancement. This has to be looked at.
I have quit playing Halo infinite after two weeks of official launch due to the awful ranking system. I’ve been playing Halo since CE and neve have I hated a ranking system as much as this one.
Halo is a team based shooter, as you said, you are not always in the slayer roll. This system promotes selfish play and not for the win, but for personal stats.
Until this majorly flawed system is fixed, they have lost a long term Halo fan for good. 343 had three tries to make Halo, Halo again and it seems they are incompetent to provide that Halo game we’ve been wanting.
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Thats rough. I had half my rank at D4 lost in two games last night, and can still barely get it back.
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To rank up you essentially have to beat a team ranked above you.
My first thought on you going 14 and 3 is that they probably weren’t.
And remember it’s not K:D… the weighting is for kills per minute. How long did the game go for? Was 14 kills more or less than the other players. And as a reference the “pass mark” is 1.4 kills per minute.
And then you lost a chunk of CSR on the loss. You either lost to a team ranked below you (bringing your MMR down) and/or the system used the loss to bring your CSR and MMR back together (the 14 wins vs mostly lower ranked teams may have pushed your CSR higher than your MMR).
The way the system currently works is that you will tend to oscillate around your expected rank. This can be a bit frustrating… but shouldn’t be as long as you are happy that you are functioning as Onxy in the range 1885-1903.
If you want to go up by 18 points you need to beat a team placed above you… but at Onxy 1908 matchmaking is probably struggling to find you a match (especially if you are running a talented squad).
I don’t know why people are fussing over the exact number… especially when grinding it out of the normal distribution of the population. The system just isn’t that accurate… especially the further you get away from the 1800 mark.
343 either need a better way to show the CSR (stop it oscillating to the user or spread the fall back over 2 to 3 losses instead of the one. Or even better - normalise everyone’s score’s back into the normal distribution of ranks.
Or just bite the bullet and get rid of the number altogether.
That’s not true at all. I have fought high onyx teams and won and go up 4-5 points. I.E. Me being nearly 1600, fighting 1800+ and a few 2k+ I’ll lose hella points. Most of my matches I go around 14-10 or so in that bracket. sometimes even, or negative depending on what goes on. Match history is there for all to see and stats. Every single Halo game I have been either a 50, or mid Onyx. Hovering around 1.2-1.5KD in ranked, with 55% accuracy.
I can carry Golds for the heck of it, and go up 25 points. Even if I lose carrying a gold, I don’t go down as much as if I faced higher ranked opponents.
The problem with the ranking system is it’s just stupid.
Rank just needs a huge overhaul. I’m not the only one seeing this and noticing this. That’s why a lot of people, are just boosting with fake golds and plats because it actually works for wins/loss. YOU ARE PUNISHED SEVERELY FOR LOSING AND REWARDED POORLY FOR WINNING. This is the only Halo ranking system that just makes me want to throw this game in the trash. Once you get into Onyx, it’s absolutely horrible to rank up because as I said, you get punished really hard. I didn’t have these issues in the Diamond ranks progressing up from my placements.
See what I think is going on is, it’s putting my social MMR with my ranked, making it horrible.
How much you go up depends on the relative rank of the team you beat (including the hidden weightings for or against anyone running around as a squad).
It also depends on your MMR vs your CSR. If they have drifted apart they will use the next chance they can to re-align.
And then you have the width of your skill curve. Early in the season it is wide and volatile. You will gain more for a win (especially right after placement when your MMR is high compared to your post-placement CSR).
Your KD and accuracy aren’t really relevant… except that a solid performance helps your team along towards the win.
As long as you carry the Golds to a win over a higher ranked team you will rank up - especially if your MMR > CSR. And again losing with Golds to a lower ranked team won’t hurt too much.
No. The problem is that 343 chose to show the MMR in the first place. They should have put in place a skill-based XP system instead. Plus they haven’t made any attempt to explain it (Josh Menke did an excellent job on waypoint during the H5 era).
Still, a lot of people aren’t putting much effort into understanding it. The number of people I run into that still believe that every win should rank you up is mind-numbing.
The underlying ranking system is fine (TrueSkill2). It works as advertised.
They do need to do a much better job at selling / explaining the CSR.
I do think they have lost control of it. The normal distribution of skill should see people petering out at the 1800 level. Yet we are seeing people ploughing well past this with W/L > 50% and K/D > 1. This should not be happening.
It needs a reset.
That’s a separate issue to the way the ranking actually works.
People will always look to milk the system (sigh).
They definitely need to put a range limit on who you can squad with (and probably an ‘x’ number of games limit before you can squad up).
Isn’t this how a ranking system should work?
As you reach your actual rank you are just oscillating around your actual MMR aren’t you. It feels frustrating creeping up and then falling back… but within the actual accuracy of the system your actual rank is likely to fall within that range of MMR.
Improving / ranking up from where you are should take a LOT of time and effort.
And it doesn’t help that when you get really high up the food chain - the matchmaking system struggles to give you matches against higher ranked teams. If you are running the best team on the server then you are going to get fed a lot of “meaningless” matches where you don’t get a chance to actually rank up.
That’s why tournament structures work so much better for ranking.
What? Now you are just throwing -yoink- out there.
Not tryna hate on you, and I respect your input but you are D2… I know you experienced this. When you are diamond or any other lower rank, you can lose many many games and not derank. IF you win, you constantly go up and losses mean nothing for those ranks. If anything should change it’s THAT, along side hitting the onyx brickwall of progressing. Makes no sense to go up 1-5 points but lose 10-15. a match. Why do you think people are ‘milking’ the system?
Now when you hit Onyx you will see what I am getting at here bro. You win and go up very little, and you lose you get DEMOLISHED in points. How is this exactly ‘my true place’. When I can’t even progress from wins, especially when I know the enemy team is better via halotracker? Plus the games you play aren’t exactly balanced. Once you hit Onyx you can place anyone from 1500-2500+ As I said previously, my matches are there for all to see. Nothing I have said has been false. Otherwise, the influx of people viewing my tracker would have called bs.
How is it bs? I am entirely convinced it throws your social and ranked together. I saw you comment on that dude who played bot matches and went into ranked. It seems the case.
The system is broken, and many of us on the forums realize this. This why we are extremely vocal about it. Even prominent ranked players and pros have voiced their opinion on it. Look at everyone commenting here…
I just can’t figure out why they didn’t use Halo Reach or R6S styled system for this game. Wins are actually wins, performance only matters if you go positive for a bonus, or objective play, and balanced matches with CSR restriction.
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They had to put a limit on the gains to stop Onyx players going up and up. The upper limit should be around the 1800 mark… yet we are seeing players cruising well past that and heading towards 2500.
Match-making just can’t produce enough even games to stop them. The best players/teams on the server just get too many games vs teams ranked below them.
So they lowered the CSR gains for a win… and weighted the losses.
The really “good” teams continue to “milk” the system by manipulating their opponents rank (eg. squadding up with a low ranked Smurf).
You have a MMR for each playlist. Some of the data is shared (offsets for each playlist) - but essentially different.
If you are entering a new playlist it assumes a starting MMR from a previous one. In the case of the bots it took their botcamp MMR across to ranked. It shouldn’t have happened… but was really funny.
Again, all I’ve ever argued is that the system works well as a ranking tool. That’s what it is supposed to do.
But people have started using it as a score to grind. They expect it to keep going up with every win (it shouldn’t). They are putting way too much emotional currency into a number that just isn’t as accurate as they want it to be. 15 points is not a lot… but at the coal face people feel like they have been “DEMOLISHED”.
Yes, yes, yes.
They need to put in an XP based progression system. Weighted for wins, medals, and objective scores.
Something for people to grind.
They could then take out the number from the CSR and just leave it as divisions and tiers (eg. make Onyx also run from 1 to 6). And then the ranking system can be left alone to function as it’s supposed to.
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Let me clarify this is also true for Onyx, @Darwi isn’t wrong. I had twenty games where I lost more than I won and my end rank was almost 40 CSR higher in Onyx.
Start rank: 1,534
20 games, won 8, lost 12.
End rank: 1,572
People are just hitting their upper limit when you start losing more CSR than you gain. If you’re playing like an 1,800 CSR player consistently and you’re in the 1,600s you will still rank up fast, and barely rank down. If that’s not happening to you then your MMR is lower than your current rank or about equal which is why you will just end up around the same rank constantly. If you gave your account to a higher skilled player, you’d see rather quickly that their CSR would start growing much quicker than what you’re used to.
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As usual, my ranked matches today have AGAIN been against only people above me in rank. And my team have lost every time. I went 15-9 in team slayer in a lobby full of mid to high diamonds and I LOST rank. Why is a platinum 6 in a lobby with 7 Diamond 3-6 players. I do not understand. If your ranking system is matching me against people it thinks I can cope with then I should be that rank. Otherwise you are deliberately making it impossible for me to get there. In my matches I am consistently outperforming most of the diamond players in the lobbies I am stuck in but I cannot rank up, because the system is putting completely unbalanced teams together.
I’ll finish on this. At plat 5 WHY did I play against a top 0.2% onyx player…. And why did I not gain rank for going positive in that match? The ranking system is fundamentally flawed.
They literally had a Plat 3 on their team.
I recommend looking at my last 10 matches. Go on. Post the ranks of all my opponents in my last 10 matches: count how many of them are a comparable rank to me. Sometimes there is another plat in the game, most times not. The point is that the other 6 players are almost always Diamond 2-onyx.
What is the purpose of having a platinum rank if I am always the lowest ranked in every match.
No thank you, but you can do that if you want. I was just pointing out that because it completely changes the relevancy of your post.
You can see on Halotracker very easily if the teams are balanced or not, or if one team is more likely to win. In all your games from yesterday, there wasn’t a single game where your team was determined to be the disadvantaged one, actually the opposite. These were your predicted chance to win.
73% - loss
62% - win
50% - loss
50% - win
50% - win
Predictions are based on hidden MMR, which is a much more accurate rank than visible. For instance Diamond 1 is highest placement so some players may be Diamond still but clearly play like Onyx players.
Which is fine, likelihood of winning is one thing. My teammates clearly underperformed then. What I am saying is that to be the lowest ranked on every game is not a fun or even competitive experience. It’s competitive for everyone above me, for me it is a bad experience. And I’ll stand by it, in over 80% of my games I will be the lowest rank.
Ranked matchmaking should not be based on the team, it should be matching individual players against players of a similar calibre, for a competitive experience; ESPECIALLY in a solo/duo playlist.
That’s all I am saying, of course there is a logic to the way it is working, but it isn’t a fair one. All I want is to play people of a similar skill level. If I beat them I move up, if I don’t I move down. It should be as simple as that from my perspective.
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You’re not wrong. Solo/Duo is lower population which is why you may be experiencing more variation in the ranks you are being paired with, especially if you don’t play at peak times. It’s frustrating for sure, if you’re always used as a lower rated balancing tool and having to constantly fight people above your current level. Even if you have the teammates around you.
Crossplay should offer a better chance at playing people your own level due to the higher population.
I’ll give it a go, thanks. The above is just my experience. Hopefully others are having a better one.
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Tried crossplay. You couldn’t make it up. At this point I just have to laugh. Second game in I get the following teams:
My team
Plat 5 (me)
Onyx 1570
Diamond 6
Diamond 4
Enemy team
Onyx 1728
Onyx 1507
Plat 2 (poor guy)
Diamond 3
We actually won the game. Not my best game and I went on a bit of a death spree after the win was guaranteed but nonetheless, went 15-15 and 1 flag cap. My team won 3-0. My rank didn’t increase 
Not that it is worth bothering with that anymore. But how this system was deemed to represent a fair experience for ALL players is absolutely beyond me. It is just catered to the top 5% of players. Everyone else is just tossed to the side as cannon fodder. I might just stick to quick play at this point, I want BR starts and challenging matches, but within reason.
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Last one from me, only because I actually think it is important this feedback gets through. I really should have something better to be doing, I know. I have literally gone back for my last 7 ranked matches, collated the ranks of every player I played with, and below are the results. I knew I was not hallucinating. During these games I was Plat 5-6, so this is the experience of somebody playing ranked at that level, it could be very different at higher levels. Feel free to check on halo tracker, it’s all there.
- The below is not a fun experience for a plat 5, that should go without saying. Please stop filling gaps in high ranking matches with lower ranked players. I don’t want to play with onyx’s constantly. In fact, the reason I went to ranked was that I thought it would give me enjoyable fair matchups for my skill level. The below shows how far off the mark your system is. So here we go. Of 49 players:
Onyx - 11
Diamond 6 - 9
Diamond 5 - 1
Diamond 4 - 5
Diamond 3 - 10
Diamond 2 - 4
Diamond 1 - 3
Plat 5 - 2
Plat 3 - 1
Plat 2 - 1
Plat 1 - 1
Gold 3 - 1
That represents 88.8% of people I play against or with in your ‘ranked’ playlist being a higher rank than me. With 40.8% of players being either diamond 6 or Onyx. And a super fun 22.5% of people being Onyx.
I want season 2 to be a more fun experience, that’s the only reason I bothered doing this. I love halo. I love the game mechanics of infinite, the core gameplay is the best since halo 3, and this has the potential to be an amazing game. But your ranked playlists are not currently fit for purpose. Something to look at. I’ll be sticking to quick play until then