Halo Infinite M+KB vs Controller [FEEDBACK]

Games Halo Infinite
, , ,
1

Hey all, Onyx The Wolf here! Ill just hop right into it.

A lot of discussion has been stirring around Controller AA vs Raw Input of M+KB in halo infinite.

Let me start by saying, I have nothing against anyone based on their preferred input method, the goal of this feedback is to put everything into perspective and hopefully have some actionable changes and discussion that doesn’t just boil down to “git gud kid”, lets get started.

So, I think collectively we need to be more selective when we talk about the differences in M+KB and Controller.

What I mean by this is that, through testing. It is not aim assist or lock on that seems to be making a difference in TTK in this game. It is bullet magnetism.

What I mean by this is that, through some rudimentary testing, the ONLY aim assist that exists is reticle deceleration, which requires input from the right thumbstick. There is no reticle lock forcing it to drag across the screen like in past halos. Personally, for me, this is totally fine. I understand that controllers cannot operate well strictly on Raw Input.

Edit: A correction to my prior statement courtesy of a response, and proof is given in responses:

Where the quantifiable difference is, is in bullet magnetism, or red reticle activation.

What they have done is actively disabled the red reticle quality of weapons that do not explicitly rely on it. As such, a M+BK player HAS to have reticle at least moderately on target to gain any damage, where as controller player has to only be touching the outline of the target with the edge of their reticle. and they are at least getting partial damage if not full damage.

This is a subtle but very impactful difference. Because what is happening is a deliberate change of a weapon’s properties because you are using a different form of control.

I also believe this to be the reason you see a higher average accuracy on controller vs KB+M as well from sources like halo tracker, and I believe we have all seen videos of skewer shots turning into dang needler shard levels of tracking.

All in all. Beyond the inherent skill required to use a KB+M, 343i saw fit to fundamentally change the properties of a weapon and make KB+M be at an active disadvantage.

And before someone remarks about how KB+M is supposed to be a higher skill input, or that bugs and cheaters exist, or what have you, I just want to point out that the disabling of red reticle and fundamentally altering the capabilities of certain weapons is a deliberate choice made by 343i to actively punish one input method, and one that I disagree with.

The properties of the weapons themselves should NOT differ between platforms. Having altercations to the method of control to create an even playing field is one thing. but when you start creating inconsistencies in your weapon and tool sandbox, you start creating inconsistencies in gameplay, and inconsistencies in actual capability of the weapons.

I am totally open to discuss, lets keep it smart, lets keep it productive, lets work together toward a system we can all be happy with.

EDIT: TO BE CLEAR, I am NOT advocating for the nerfing of controller usage, what I am advocating for is consistent functions in the sandbox regardless of input method. Weapon has X amount of bullet magnetism, that should be consistent regardless of input method.

That is all I have for now. Thankyou for your time!

See Y’all Starside!

8 Likes
2

My belief has been that the combination of aim assist and bullet mag serve as force multipliers for each other. They become much stronger together than either one would be individually. Or at the very least that the aim assist multiplies the effectiveness of bullet mag.

Its hard to test this or find proof, so right now its just a hunch, but once again, I’m strongly against tinkering with how controller feels in game. Input based matchmaking is the only real solution imo.

1 Like
3

Again the only “assist” that Controller players get is reticle deceleration. they don’t get reticle lock, or as it is better known by the people who get annoyed by it while sniping, reticle drag.

And I am 100% okay with reticle deceleration existing for clarity, this is the function that slows your reticle down as your crosshair gets close to your enemy. where the major disparity is, is the distance a reticle has to be within a target to get partial and full damage. And this is where bullet magnetism being inconsistent creates a problem.

I myself am a KB+M player. for me to get partial damage on a BR shot, for example, 30%+ of my reticle has to be on target, in other words, the target has to be inside the reticle, reasonable enough, right? partial crosshair, partial damage, good tight hitboxes.

Jump over to Controller, the reticle only needs a pixel on target, which activates red reticle, and the controller is garunteed at least partial damage if not just full damage.

And this is NOT an inconsistency with the input method, this is an inconsistency with the tuning of the weapons, which flies directly in the face of what halo always (should) have been. consistent sandbox expectations.

In the name of “Evening the playing field” they have, whether it was intentional or not, created a marked and absolute advantage for one input method over the other and in doing so created an inconsistency in the sandbox, to the point of some people don’t even bother with certain weapons because they literally do not work on M+KB without the built in properties they have for a controller player.

1 Like
4

So what do you call this? Is this just drag to you?

https://youtu.be/rd4Ptaddvbk
5

I was actually unaware this occurs. It is something someone specifically helped me test for in a custom game.

So one of two things is happening.

there is a bug that disables AA in cross play, even in custom games -OR- AA is only active in the training ground, which would be funny to me.

But I have heard of bugs that make the AA absolutely insane. I am simply reporting my findings, at the end of the day only 343i really knows what’s going on the background and whether it is a bug or not.

but something they have stated is that Red Reticle activation is completely disabled for weapons on PC that don’t require it. and in doing so it actively harms a large portion of the sandbox, because it actively harms the performance of weapons that are supposed to have certain values applied to them when the red reticle activates.

and the “this is to stop cheaters” is a flimsy excuse at best as people will just cheat in a different way.

1 Like
6

Yeah. That’s what happens when you set both deadzones to 0. And I can’t imagine anyone playing at that setting. The reticle needs to be still. How can you pull off a noscope with that?

No one plays like that.

1 Like
7

All you have to do is go in test range and lightly tilt your right stick. Leaving it still will disable all aim assist. Haven’t tested it yet while only strafing, in past games just strafing would activate aim assist, but no guarantees this time.

Otherwise, this test should be repeatable on both platforms whether in test range or customs.

I don’t have my deadzones set to 0. Just lightly tilted my stick. This was just to show that so long as your controller isn’t idle, there is true aim assist coded into the game, not just reticle slow down.

1 Like
8

again, I was genuinely unaware of this. I appreciate the attention being brought. I will have to repeat test and find out.

That said, the sandbox inconsistency is still something that should IMO 100% be addressed before any debate regarding nerfing/buffing input methods should be had.

1 Like
9

This is why I’m in favor of IBMM. Cause individually the inputs play really well imo. Its only when you put them together that you get issues and disparity.

1 Like
10

That Mouse has bullet magnetism at all is the reason I’m constantly on the edge of bailing on the competitive side of the multiplayer entirely.

I’m also extremely suspect of the claim that magnetism is less on Mouse than Controller considering some of the Battle Rifle kills I’ve seen the game hand me. And other times where it refuses to let me shoot the grenade laying on the ground at someone’s feet.

11

now this i did specifically test, Mouse has no magnetism on a weapon that does not specifically require it (sword, needler) hell, it doesnt even get red reticle on most of its weapons.

and yes, there are cheaters, yes, it is a problem, but that is a problem with the game’s anti cheat, not the systems functions.

12

Bullet mag is definitely there on MKB. But overall, people don’t think it “feels” as good on mouse. Part of that might be the force multiplier effect I mentioned above.

1 Like
13

That’s because your deadzones are too low. The games picking it up as movement from your controller.

14

I’ll reiterate, I actually went and tested it, and in my testing, Bullet Magnetism simply does not exist on M+KB. you get your cone of fire, and that is it. the bullets will place themselves anywhich way in that cone.

with the exception, of course, weapons that are designed to track in Red Reticle range (pulse carbine, Energy Sword, and Needler) because those weapons would actually cease to function without it.

15

I don’t see the option about mouse bullet magnetism in the settings that people keep claiming. Is it there?

16

people are probably claiming it is a setting because it existed in the flight as a togglable option. to my knowledge it does not exist any longer.

17

How do you define this?

https://youtu.be/LzyoJm3SRuM

or

https://youtu.be/WKfBk6r9y2o
18

It looks more like bigger hitboxes rather than bullet magnetism.

19

Try the second video then. And imo “big hitboxes” and bullet mag are pretty much the same. What’s the distinction?

1 Like
20

As far as I read, bullet magnetism follows your target. They say in controller is bigger as you don’t need your very center reticle to be closer to the target range.

In mouse you need to be at least and I quote “1mm closer to target, but 15mm as controller”. I know it feels like an exaggeration but the difference sure is noticeable.

Your second video does look like it has an increased hitbox or bullet magnetism when the target is farther. I still prefer an actual visual comparison of both inputs.