This is just outrageous that 343i thinks exclusive and bordless are the same thing. They are not when it comes to input latency. Why would a company think that this doesnt affect input delay and there were no mentions about it either in the last update for the flight. This is just disappointing with the lack of support for mnk players.
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I thought Infinite was built from the ground up for PC and Xbox in parallel. Why is this only being considered post-launch?
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the fact that they even considered that exclusive fullscreen has no effect on input delay is just ignorant. If anything im not playing multiplayer until that is fixed. Its literally putting all the mnk players at a disadvantage.
It doesn’t matter anymore past DX12. You guys are complaining over nothing.
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Exactly what I thought.
They did say this but apart of me never really believed it to be real, I’m no video game architect though just another random OS cert IT guy.
Oh man, I suggest you write them a technical explanation of how dx12 graphics work on windows, so they can set things straight.
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What the hell is exclusive fullscreen? Do I need to update my big black book of computer jargon? Again?
Do you actually know this from a systems/engineering perspective or experimental proof for dx12 games? or is this just something you’ve heard other gamers say?
im not talking about performance. Im talking about compositing. Bordlerless fullscreen is a great feature for alt tabbing out of games but it causes a heap load of input delay on all peripherals on pc. Did u notice that the community was feeling a heavy aim in the flights. The reason is due to the presence of bordlerless FS. And yes they are partially correct when it comes to DX12 performance. But performance is not just defined by ur frame rate and frame timing solely. Hope u get my drift.
okay if u want to argue against thats fine, but its a fact that borderless FS causes an increase in input delay. Try searching it up. Its called compositing. Hope u get what im saying hahah.
dont worry dude im not gonna bombard u with jargon hahah. But you can definitely search it up. The terminology is bordlerless FS compositing.
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yeah im intending to do this honestly. I did mention about i multiple times in the flight but i dont have the voice
I’m not trying to argue. I’m just trying to understand the base truth, not what some random gamers on a forum are saying (and I’m not trying to be dismissive or insulting when I say this).
I’m going to continue looking into it but so far what I’m reading is that games are treated specially by DWM. No links allowed but the article “demystifying-full-screen-optimizations” in the directx blog is my starting point.
I’m not a Windows app developer but I am a computer engineer so I am capable of understanding the situation if presented with the ground info. Jargon away.
Update:
I found a cool blog " Present Latency, DWM and Waitable Swap chains" +“Jackminnit”
Summary is borderless fullscreen can achieve “0 latency overhead” like FSE if the application sets it up properly. Compositing is bypassed.
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A trend that I hate to see. B4B, Forza and now Halo.
yes it can be bypassed if the developers set it up right but i doubt given the state of the flights but who knows. Compositing is an annoying issue for those who are playing on PC. Its just a stupid thing to do and not give players the option to select whatever display option they desire. I strongly stand that ExFS is much better and is the way to go. When combined with Nvidia latency markers it will definitely help. Its up to how 343 develops their game and they way they framed it makes it as if the PC gaming community are baboons or something. And no there is nothing wrong to have opposing opinions. Its completely normal as long as its not disparaging.
When a post leads with “outrageous” I’m quick to be like “probably not”
FSB/FSE/FSO depends on the game engine/what’s being done.
Most games even in “fullscreen” will still function as borderless when you’re in menus, etc.
a good reference is “RodroG’s PC Gaming Analysis” on Reddit.
if you wanna use a finetooth comb, yes Borderless does induce a negligible amount of lag, but you’re not truly going to have an issue with it unless you’re playing a pro level. Even then if everybody is on the same playing field it’s irrelevant.
Not to mention that you don’t design a game around expected latency of $5k gaming PCs on business grade connections, you design around average user/console expected.
So whatever the reasoning behind what we saw in the flight (Which is Shadowfrax voice SUBJECT TO CHANGE) I wouldn’t call it outrageous or unexpectable.
More often than not, people complaining about borderless performance haven’t done a clean Windows install in years among other general upkeep
Not to mention 343 literally talks about this in reference to PC in their dev dairies thingy. Like that’s a PR nightmare outside of optimization issues, which even that factored in: this game is big enough that there will likely be GPU driver updates included for launch.
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please search up compositing because if you think that Bordlerless FS does not contribute to input latency. You need a fact recheck. First off this thread never referred to performance, in terms of frame timing and frame rate. The core issue is borderless FS has always traditionally elevated input latency, hence why most FPS games ship with dedicated FS options. I have done clean windows installs through the BIOs of my motherboard and any game that is run on exclusive FS has a significantly improved response rate. Remeber that this is no longer a console game, its a PC and console game. If latency is something that is not addressed it’s just going to harm the games reputation.
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yep not a good trend.
(In case anyone searches for this topic at a later date)
Per the Test Flight 2 Outcome report from 343:
Exclusive Fullscreen is an interesting one. When reading the feedback from most players, they wanted exclusive fullscreen because they believed it would give them significant performance advantages. While that used to be accurate a few years ago, that is actually no longer the case due to some fundamental changes with Windows 10, and it is not applicable to DirectX 12 (Infinite is DirectX 12 only). Not to get too technical here, but you can read up on this update here. If exclusive fullscreen would have increased perf over our current options, we would’ve prioritized it higher on our list and pursued it. However, there are still other use cases for players, such as accessibility and just personal preference, and we do want to give players the choice. It will not be something that comes immediately post-launch, but we will be investigating how to expose this as an option.