Halo deserves better, YOU deserve better

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I personally am sick of seeing the BR being the only viable starting weapon in multiplayer in the entire series.

I think the stagnation caused by the BR, or rather the lack of diverse and viable weapons, is ONE of the leading causes of Halo’s recent downfall in multiplayer. Let me explain. There’s no fun in everyone using the exact same gun the entire match no matter how balanced it is. Let me sum up every Slayer match ever: Players stick to cover because the BR punishes movement and players never pick up any weapons unless its a power weapon. If you venture out too far from cover, you’re dead. If it’s Slayer BR on Warlord, I just hide in one of the bottom areas and pray that someone won’t find me. You would seriously have an easier time surviving in a human-sized blender than you would in Slayer BR on Warlord.

Any other weapon besides power weapons are a complete joke. The Needler is a novelty weapon. “Oh look that’s so cool it shoots homing needles!” And then 5 seconds later you get destroyed by a BR at close-mid range and throw that -Yoink- weapon into a slip-space portal where it can’t fool anyone anymore. The Plasma Rifle? Hah, yeah, I’d honestly rather try getting an extermination with the Halo 3 Pistol. The Halo 3 Pistol…

Why does every gun have to suck so much? No wonder people think automatics are noob weapons, the only time you can get a kill with one is by hiding and waiting for someone to walk right past you. The assault rifle is just an smg that has a tiny bit more range. Have you ever won a fair 1v1 medium range battle with an AR against a BR player that can land his shots? And when I say medium range I’m talking at least 20 feet. The answer is no. Even in close range, you have to finish your target by punching him or I guarantee you are at least going to lose your shields in the process.

Now I’m not one to kiss anyone’s -Yoink- but at least 343 appears to be getting this right in Halo 5. The AR should be a deadly weapon in mid range. If you are so obsessed with the BR and so afraid of it being de-throned by the AR then don’t even worry. The BR will always be a better weapon to roll with because it has range and accuracy while still retaining a strong time-to-kill in close range.

Don’t you ever get sick of playing BR starts over and over? I get that the smg sucks, BR starts is the lesser of two evils. But don’t you wish that we could get a proper sandbox that isn’t completely dominated by the BR? I want to have more viable weapons in multiplayer. “But ZoomGears! The SMG works fine if you’re in close range! If 343 buffed it then it would be OP!!”. Well, sir, you are wrong. Halo’s multiplayer consists mostly of medium to long range battles. If it didn’t, then people wouldn’t be carrying a BR with them like it’s the holy grail. If someone is scoped with the SMG and lighting you up, just shoot them once and voila! Descope kicks in and they lose the smart scope buff. If they catch you off guard and you can’t even hit them once, chances are you were a dead man anyways, with smart scope buffs or not.

The Halo 5 AR needs to be the new Halo standard for weapon starts. For one, I like to be able to take a breath and not get shot by 2 people across the map just for peaking around a corner. Secondly, I want to work for a better weapon. Slayer is about fighting for weapons right? Well who says that battle for dominance has to begin and end with power weapons? The whole match should be a struggle over all kinds of weapons. Put 2 BR’s on each side of the map. Now players can be free for once and try new weapons out.

Do BR starts need to exit Halo entirely? No, a lot of people have grown accustomed to it seeing as it’s been the only way to truly play the game competitively since every other gun sucks. Lets face it, the BR is forever a part of Halo. That being said, other guns have to be viable in this game or else people are going to get bored with the repetition of shooting a guy 4 times in the head, over and over and over. Even Cod offers some variety with their weapons, every gun is practically the same -Yoink- unless its a shotgun but at least the game creates an illusion of variety for it’s players.

For the love of god, don’t continue to release the same multiplayer with each release. Don’t be content with Halo being a one gun game. If that’s all you want, fine, BR starts should have its own playlist just for you. But don’t drag down what should be the new standard for multiplayer. Halo deserves better, YOU deserve better.

Thank you for reading.

2

The halo 5 beta was the first time i actually enjoyed AR starts. in my opinion i think that in AR starts there should be only 1 or 2 BRs on the map so one whole team can’t all pick one up or there should be no br’s or dmr’s on the map in AR starts.

3

Its pretty clear to me that you did NOT play the beta… or read about it… In any capacity… at all.

All the weapons are powerful now. a close range BR will get destroyed by a close range AR or SMG. This fact has been praised by almost everyone, the only knock to it is that it has subsequently reduced the TTK so hopefully they alleviate that a bit, but preserve the balance.

4

> 2533274798578400;3:
> Its pretty clear to me that you did NOT play the beta… or read about it… In any capacity… at all.
>
> All the weapons are powerful now. a close range BR will get destroyed by a close range AR or SMG. This fact has been praised by almost everyone, the only knock to it is that it has subsequently reduced the TTK so hopefully they alleviate that a bit, but preserve the balance.

I’m well aware of this, sounds like you didn’t read the whole thing that I wrote. I hope that the final game will play just like the beta and they won’t nerf the weapons.

5

> 2533274833600810;4:
> > 2533274798578400;3:
> > Its pretty clear to me that you did NOT play the beta… or read about it… In any capacity… at all.
> >
> > All the weapons are powerful now. a close range BR will get destroyed by a close range AR or SMG. This fact has been praised by almost everyone, the only knock to it is that it has subsequently reduced the TTK so hopefully they alleviate that a bit, but preserve the balance.
>
>
> I’m well aware of this, sounds like you didn’t read the whole thing that I wrote. I hope that the final game will play just like the beta and they won’t nerf the weapons.

I did in fact read the whole thing, read it again just now to find the one sentence in the middle where you mentioned that Halo 5 looks like they are correcting this. Sorry i forgot about that by the time i got to the end. gotta include a TL:DR for something that long :stuck_out_tongue:

6

> 2533274798578400;5:
> > 2533274833600810;4:
> > > 2533274798578400;3:
> > > Its pretty clear to me that you did NOT play the beta… or read about it… In any capacity… at all.
> > >
> > > All the weapons are powerful now. a close range BR will get destroyed by a close range AR or SMG. This fact has been praised by almost everyone, the only knock to it is that it has subsequently reduced the TTK so hopefully they alleviate that a bit, but preserve the balance.
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m well aware of this, sounds like you didn’t read the whole thing that I wrote. I hope that the final game will play just like the beta and they won’t nerf the weapons.
>
>
> I did in fact read the whole thing, read it again just now to find the one sentence in the middle where you mentioned that Halo 5 looks like they are correcting this. Sorry i forgot about that by the time i got to the end. gotta include a TL:DR for something that long :stuck_out_tongue:

Haha yeah sorry for the wall of text! D: I guess I just prefer not to use TLDR’s. If someone’s not gonna read the whole thing then they shouldn’t really be commenting on it :stuck_out_tongue:

7

I agree 100% I’ve always said that the BR ruins a lot of the game for me.

BR starts on a map with a base at each and an open middle? Yeah. Because people will risk wondering outside the base when they’ll get mowed down in seconds. It just turns in to two teams poking their heads out trying to get headshots, then running straight back to cover all game.

I tend to get really bored and move around the map cleverly, but on your own its pretty damn difficult. I’m all in favour of AR starts.

8

I don’t care about whether we start with a BR or not. We need utility weapons starts, that could be the BR, CE Pistol, DMR, Carbine, Needle Rifle, Light Rifle, etc, it doesn’t matter to me. It been shown time and time again that most of the fanbase agrees. Using default plasma pistol starts are unheard of in CE. Now we come to Halo 2 and player beg for BR starts(which Bungie even admitted was a mistake). We get the same situation in Halo 3 after we start out with AR starts. In Reach the DMR was still the most commonly used weapon. Even in Halo 4 where we were allowed to choose a weapon, the majority still chose a versatile precision weapon, even though the auto weapons were actually pretty good in that game.

Players need to be able to defend themselves off spawn and close range oriented weapon like the SMG and AR simply cannot do that. Once one team gets the ranged and power weapons, they can completely control the movement of the other team. The other team cannot do anything because they don’t have to range to outdistance weapons like the shotgun or rockets, nor do they have the range to avoid them and ward off other ranged weapons. No players should have to struggle just to pick up a weapon that allows them to fight back at most ranges. The main reason the BR is chosen over other precision weapons is due to the nostalgia as it was the starting weapon when Halo was at its peak so understandably some people are attached.

I am tired of hearing the same “every other weapon sucks” line over, and over, and over, and over again. Endlessly repeating the same false line doesn’t make it true. Its ignorance plane and simple. In Halo 2 and 3 there is a very clear minority of weapons that were ignored on account of them being bad weapons not only within their own niche, but within the entire sandbox. And guess what? They were all dual wieldable weapons, that were nerfed into oblivion to account for that terrible mechanic. Nearly every other weapon in the sandbox was useful. Not only that but the SMG, Plasma Rifle, BPR, and spiker were all functional clones of the same weapon so not only were they bad, but they offered virtually nothing to make one significantly more useful than the other. Other terrible weapons include Needler(H2), Magnum(H2/H3/H4), AR(H3/Reach), and plasma rifle/repeater(Reach), All of which are a clear minority in the sandboxes.

If you want to blame anything for ‘stagnation’ then blame dual wielding for ruining a whole subsection of weapons in order to satisfy a shallow mechanic. Reach may have lacked dual wielding but you can still see its effects in the way the AR and repeater were inferior weapons. Fortunately, one thing I will give 343 credit for it that they have been able to make auto weapons good weapons once again, and the pistol in Halo 5.

Honestly if you played the Beta I have no idea why you would be concerned. Balance was the strongest part of the Beta for me. The SMG/AR regularly beat the BR within closer ranges(and beyond point blank) and the DMR/Light Rifle were more effective at range. Even in BR start gametypes I found myself picking up the other weapons because they actually gave me concrete advantages this time around. I didn’t pick anything up because I was desperate, I picked them up because they were good weapon. The Pistol was decent too although I think its needs a rate of fire buff.

With that said, the AR/SMG/Pistol simply do not make good starting weapons. As great as they are in Halo 5, they are not capable of warding off ranged weapons, it simply isn’t their job. The way Halo plays simply doesn’t work well with auto starts. The only time the ‘players move around more with auto starts’ is true is at fairly low levels of play. Once you get into a game where most players know what they are doing, auto starts become one sided affairs once one team gains map control because their versatility(having the freedom to pick up whatever they want) allows they to easily control and manipulate players who spawn with niche weapons. With utility starts teams have an easier time breaking enemy setups because the moment they spawn they have more options than they would with an auto weapon.

TL;DR It doesn’t matter whether we start with a BR, we simply need to spawn with a versatile weapon and the AR/Pistol does not cut in Halo 5.

9

> 2533274834430951;7:
> I agree 100% I’ve always said that the BR ruins a lot of the game for me.
>
> BR starts on a map with a base at each and an open middle? Yeah. Because people will risk wondering outside the base when they’ll get mowed down in seconds. It just turns in to two teams poking their heads out trying to get headshots, then running straight back to cover all game.
>
> I tend to get really bored and move around the map cleverly, but on your own its pretty damn difficult. I’m all in favour of AR starts.

Yeah, I’m definitely not trying to slam the skill and teamwork needed with BR starts but I think that it’s not a proper default setting.

10

> 2533274819446242;8:
> I don’t care about whether we start with a BR or not. We need utility weapons starts, that could be the BR, CE Pistol, DMR, Carbine, Needle Rifle, Light Rifle, etc, it doesn’t matter to me. It been shown time and time again that most of the fanbase agrees. Using default plasma pistol starts are unheard of in CE. Now we come to Halo 2 and player beg for BR starts(which Bungie even admitted was a mistake). We get the same situation in Halo 3 after we start out with AR starts. In Reach the DMR was still the most commonly used weapon. Even in Halo 4 where we were allowed to choose a weapon, the majority still chose a versatile precision weapon, even though the auto weapons were actually pretty good in that game.
>
> Players need to be able to defend themselves off spawn and close range oriented weapon like the SMG and AR simply cannot do that. Once one team gets the ranged and power weapons, they can completely control the movement of the other team. The other team cannot do anything because they don’t have to range to outdistance weapons like the shotgun or rockets, nor do they have the range to avoid them and ward off other ranged weapons. No players should have to struggle just to pick up a weapon that allows them to fight back at most ranges. The main reason the BR is chosen over other precision weapons is due to the nostalgia as it was the starting weapon when Halo was at its peak so understandably some people are attached.
>
> I am tired of hearing the same “every other weapon sucks” line over, and over, and over, and over again. Endlessly repeating the same false line doesn’t make it true. Its ignorance plane and simple. In Halo 2 and 3 there is a very clear minority of weapons that were ignored on account of them being bad weapons not only within their own niche, but within the entire sandbox. And guess what? They were all dual wieldable weapons, that were nerfed into oblivion to account for that terrible mechanic. Nearly every other weapon in the sandbox was useful. Not only that but the SMG, Plasma Rifle, BPR, and spiker were all functional clones of the same weapon so not only were they bad, but they offered virtually nothing to make one significantly more useful than the other. Other terrible weapons include Needler(H2), Magnum(H2/H3/H4), AR(H3/Reach), and plasma rifle/repeater(Reach), All of which are a clear minority in the sandboxes.
>
> If you want to blame anything for ‘stagnation’ then blame dual wielding for ruining a whole subsection of weapons in order to satisfy a shallow mechanic. Reach may have lacked dual wielding but you can still see its effects in the way the AR and repeater were inferior weapons. Fortunately, one thing I will give 343 credit for it that they have been able to make auto weapons good weapons once again, and the pistol in Halo 5.
>
> Honestly if you played the Beta I have no idea why you would be concerned. Balance was the strongest part of the Beta for me. The SMG/AR regularly beat the BR within closer ranges(and beyond point blank) and the DMR/Light Rifle were more effective at range. Even in BR start gametypes I found myself picking up the other weapons because they actually gave me concrete advantages this time around. I didn’t pick anything up because I was desperate, I picked them up because they were good weapon. The Pistol was decent too although I think its needs a rate of fire buff.
>
> With that said, the AR/SMG/Pistol simply do not make good starting weapons. As great as they are in Halo 5, they are not capable of warding off ranged weapons, it simply isn’t their job. The way Halo plays simply doesn’t work well with auto starts. The only time the ‘players move around more with auto starts’ is true is at fairly low levels of play. Once you get into a game where most players know what they are doing, auto starts become one sided affairs once one team gains map control because their versatility(having the freedom to pick up whatever they want) allows they to easily control and manipulate players who spawn with niche weapons. With utility starts teams have an easier time breaking enemy setups because the moment they spawn they have more options than they would with an auto weapon.
>
> TL;DR It doesn’t matter whether we start with a BR, we simply need to spawn with a versatile weapon and the AR/Pistol does not cut in Halo 5.

The stagnation isn’t directly the BR’s fault. It’s more of a failing from the rest of the sandbox. Dual-wielding isn’t worth it, weapons with low range are easily glanced over in favor of the only weapon that can stand on its own.

I believe that AR/Pistol starts do work in Halo 5. I remember seeing people on here crying for an AR nerf because it could actually compete at mid range. It’s not going to win you the match single-handedly but it gives everyone a fair chance on spawn. The Pistol also compliments the AR without being a true precision weapon.

Thank you for commenting. It puts a smile on my face to see someone write such a lengthy response to something I made.

11

This also differs from map to map. Empire worked well with AR starts, the beta maps that I played were fine with AR starts. when it comes to slightly larger maps though it will turn in the same old situation. it they removed BR’s off map in AR starts I feel it would work better.

12

> 2533274884665671;11:
> This also differs from map to map. Empire worked well with AR starts, the beta maps that I played were fine with AR starts. when it comes to slightly larger maps though it will turn in the same old situation. it they removed BR’s off map in AR starts I feel it would work better.

I agree. Blood Gulch would turn into the same old story once people got ahold of DMRs and BRs.

For maps such as this, I think it would be best to bite the bullet and let people spawn with a true precision weapon.

13

The AR starts for the first week of the beta did play better than the week 2-3 br starts. It should be map specific imo. If i had to pick one for halo 5 it would be AR starts.

14

> 2533274833600810;10:
> The stagnation isn’t directly the BR’s fault. It’s more of a failing from the rest of the sandbox. Dual-wielding isn’t worth it, weapons with low range are easily glanced over in favor of the only weapon that can stand on its own.
>
> I believe that AR/Pistol starts do work in Halo 5. I remember seeing people on here crying for an AR nerf because it could actually compete at mid range. It’s not going to win you the match single-handedly but it gives everyone a fair chance on spawn. The Pistol also compliments the AR without being a true precision weapon.
>
> Thank you for commenting. It puts a smile on my face to see someone write such a lengthy response to something I made.

Its a failure of a specific subset of the sandbox. Can we please get away from the ‘only weapon’ type of comments? Having a weapon stand on its own does not mean it needs to be versatile in order to do so. The BR stands on its own because it fufills its versatile role, the SMG/AR in Halo 5 stand on their own because they actually work well within their given niche.

The auto weapons were passed over in H2/H3/Reach because they couldn’t stand on their own within their own niche, let alone the entire sandbox. I will remind you that the weapons that went unsused were a clear minority. Its not “People only use BR’s and power weapons”, it its more accurate to say “People don’t use bad duals and autos”.

The AR does not ‘compete’ at mid range with the BR and other range. They are all clearly superior at that range. The potential usefulness of the AR scope is not that it can compete with those weapon, but outrange some of other close range oriented weapons. Players used the pistol if they wanted to fight back against ranged weapon. As much as I like the pistol it simply doesn’t have the range to effectively fight back at mid-long range.

Trying to fight from the outside to the central structure(I forget what it was called) on Empire with nothing but a pistol against sniper/BR/DMR was a painful experience against experienced teams. Its the same issue we had in past games, except that the weapons are actually good within their own niche, but once again when you only have one effective niche you can be easily exploited.

I found the BR/AR to be the most enjoyable starting setup in the Beta as we had a versatile starting weapon and a very good close range weapon. Its not that I necesarily care about the BR, it just happens to fit that utility niche that spawning players require. I would say buff the pistols effective range, but then it would be filling the exact same role as the BR, making one of them redundant. If there is anything that has been plaguing this series since Halo 2, it has been redundant, functional clones, which is why I would rather see the pistols rate of fire buffed(or damage or both) in order to make it a worthy close-mid pickup in order to make best use out of the sandbox we have.

15

> 2533274833600810;1:
> I personally am sick of seeing the BR being the only viable starting weapon in multiplayer in the entire series.
>
> I think the stagnation caused by the BR, or rather the lack of diverse and viable weapons, is ONE of the leading causes of Halo’s recent downfall in multiplayer. Let me explain. There’s no fun in everyone using the exact same gun the entire match no matter how balanced it is. Let me sum up every Slayer match ever: Players stick to cover because the BR punishes movement and players never pick up any weapons unless its a power weapon. If you venture out too far from cover, you’re dead. If it’s Slayer BR on Warlord, I just hide in one of the bottom areas and pray that someone won’t find me. You would seriously have an easier time surviving in a human-sized blender than you would in Slayer BR on Warlord.
>
> Any other weapon besides power weapons are a complete joke. The Needler is a novelty weapon. “Oh look that’s so cool it shoots homing needles!” And then 5 seconds later you get destroyed by a BR at close-mid range and throw that -Yoink- weapon into a slip-space portal where it can’t fool anyone anymore. The Plasma Rifle? Hah, yeah, I’d honestly rather try wearing a hornets’ nest as a helmet, at least that way the pain wouldn’t just be in my soul.
>
> Why does every gun have to suck so much? No wonder people think automatics are noob weapons, the only time you can get a kill with one is by hiding and waiting for someone to walk right past you. The assault rifle is just an smg that has a tiny bit more range. Have you ever won a fair 1v1 medium range battle with an AR against a BR player that can land his shots? And when I say medium range I’m talking at least 20 feet. The answer is no. Even in close range, you have to finish your target by punching him or I guarantee you are at least going to lose your shields in the process.
>
> Now I’m not one to kiss anyone’s -Yoink- but at least 343 appears to be getting this right in Halo 5. The AR should be a deadly weapon in mid range. If you are so obsessed with the BR and so afraid of it being de-throned by the AR then don’t even worry. The BR will always be a better weapon to roll with because it has range and accuracy while still retaining a strong time-to-kill in close range.
>
> Don’t you ever get sick of playing BR starts over and over? I get that the smg sucks, BR starts is the lesser of two evils. But don’t you wish that we could get a proper sandbox that isn’t completely dominated by the BR? I want to have more viable weapons in multiplayer. “But ZoomGears! The SMG works fine if you’re in close range! If 343 buffed it then it would be OP!!”. Well, sir, you are wrong. Halo’s multiplayer consists mostly of medium to long range battles. If it didn’t, then people wouldn’t be carrying a BR with them like it’s the holy grail. If someone is scoped with the SMG and lighting you up, just shoot them once and voila! Descope kicks in and they lose the smart scope buff. If they catch you off guard and you can’t even hit them once, chances are you were a dead man anyways, with smart scope buffs or not.
>
> The Halo 5 AR needs to be the new Halo standard for weapon starts. For one, I like to be able to take a breath and not get shot by 2 people across the map just for peaking around a corner. Secondly, I want to work for a better weapon. Slayer is about fighting for weapons right? Well who says that battle for dominance has to begin and end with power weapons? The whole match should be a struggle over all kinds of weapons. Put 2 BR’s on each side of the map. Now players can be free for once and try new weapons out.
>
> Do BR starts need to exit Halo entirely? No, a lot of people have grown accustomed to it seeing as it’s been the only way to truly play the game competitively since every other gun sucks. Lets face it, the BR is forever a part of Halo. That being said, other guns have to be viable in this game or else people are going to get bored with the repetition of shooting a guy 4 times in the head, over and over and over. Even Cod offers some variety with their weapons, every gun is practically the same -Yoink- unless its a shotgun but at least the game creates an illusion of variety for it’s players.
>
> For the love of god, don’t continue to release the same multiplayer with each release. Don’t be content with Halo being a one gun game. If that’s all you want, fine, BR starts should have its own playlist just for you. But don’t drag down what should be the new standard for multiplayer. Halo deserves better, YOU deserve better.
>
> Thank you for reading.

yes, AR starts in Halo 5 were much better then the week where they had BR starts. The game ran so much better with AR starts

16

> 2533274819446242;14:
> > 2533274833600810;10:
> > The stagnation isn’t directly the BR’s fault. It’s more of a failing from the rest of the sandbox. Dual-wielding isn’t worth it, weapons with low range are easily glanced over in favor of the only weapon that can stand on its own.
> >
> > I believe that AR/Pistol starts do work in Halo 5. I remember seeing people on here crying for an AR nerf because it could actually compete at mid range. It’s not going to win you the match single-handedly but it gives everyone a fair chance on spawn. The Pistol also compliments the AR without being a true precision weapon.
> >
> > Thank you for commenting. It puts a smile on my face to see someone write such a lengthy response to something I made.
>
>
>
> Its a failure of a specific subset of the sandbox. Can we please get away from the ‘only weapon’ type of comments? Having a weapon stand on its own does not mean it needs to be versatile in order to do so. The BR stands on its own because it fufills its versatile role, the SMG/AR in Halo 5 stand on their own because they actually work well within their given niche.
>
> The auto weapons were passed over in H2/H3/Reach because they couldn’t stand on their own within their own niche, let alone the entire sandbox. I will remind you that the weapons that went unsused were a clear minority. Its not “People only use BR’s and power weapons”, it its more accurate to say “People don’t use bad duals and autos”.
>
> The AR does not ‘compete’ at mid range with the BR and other range. They are all clearly superior at that range. The potential usefulness of the AR scope is not that it can compete with those weapon, but outrange some of other close range oriented weapons. Players used the pistol if they wanted to fight back against ranged weapon. As much as I like the pistol it simply doesn’t have the range to effectively fight back at mid-long range.
>
> Trying to fight from the outside to the central structure(I forget what it was called) on Empire with nothing but a pistol against sniper/BR/DMR was a painful experience against experienced teams. Its the same issue we had in past games, except that the weapons are actually good within their own niche, but once again when you only have one effective niche you can be easily exploited.
>
> I found the BR/AR to be the most enjoyable starting setup in the Beta as we had a versatile starting weapon and a very good close range weapon. Its not that I necesarily care about the BR, it just happens to fit that utility niche that spawning players require. I would say buff the pistols effective range, but then it would be filling the exact same role as the BR, making one of them redundant. If there is anything that has been plaguing this series since Halo 2, it has been redundant, functional clones, which is why I would rather see the pistols rate of fire buffed(or damage or both) in order to make it a worthy close-mid pickup in order to make best use out of the sandbox we have.

On Empire there are two Sniper spawns so that is going to help you out and there are also 2 Battle Rifles on the outside portion of the map. The BR does still outclass the AR at mid-range but a scoped AR is also nothing to be laughed at in medium range. That, with grenades, a pistol for precision and cleaning up 1-shots and the use of Spartan Abilities to help quickly close the gap should be enough to have a fighting chance. Not a guarantee, but a chance.

17

That title OP… not the best choice (because it could be anything) - but otherwise good work, I fully agree!

That utility argument isn’t fully working for me:
1.) The more powerful AR (both in damage and reach) in H5 is actually significantly reducing the problem of not being able to fight back after respawn.
If you combine the AR with a capable pistol it’s even better.
Of course the BR player still has an advantage… but in the end you have to make a choice:

  • go with that which makes a fair spawn system and good map design even more important
  • or go with BR starts which has the downside that it immediately alters players’ behavior in that they’re less likely to go into close combat (even with H5’s more potent close range weapons).

2.) As has already been mentioned: It also highly depends on the open nature / size of the map…

3.) … and the skill-level.

What about that?
In ranked games…

  • Low or medium skill-games:
  • AR/pistol on small less-open maps
  • BR/AR on large open maps
  • High skill-games:
  • always BR
18

> 2533274833600810;16:
> On Empire there are two Sniper spawns so that is going to help you out and there are also 2 Battle Rifles on the outside portion of the map. The BR does still outclass the AR at mid-range but a scoped AR is also nothing to be laughed at in medium range. That, with grenades, a pistol for precision and cleaning up 1-shots and the use of Spartan Abilities to help quickly close the gap should be enough to have a fighting chance. Not a guarantee, but a chance.

We are not talking about the beginning of the game where everything is even, we are talking about the down time between sniper spawns where one team has sniper control. Two BRs simply doesn’t cut it against a ‘fully equipped’ team where they are free to choose what they want to pick up. If you have to justify it with ‘well there are two BRs outside’ it implies you cannot effectively fight back without picking one up(or something similar).

All those things you mentioned, grenades, cleaning up one shots, spartan abilities, the other teams has all these same options and more so we are back to square one.

19

> 2533274819446242;18:
> > 2533274833600810;16:
> > On Empire there are two Sniper spawns so that is going to help you out and there are also 2 Battle Rifles on the outside portion of the map. The BR does still outclass the AR at mid-range but a scoped AR is also nothing to be laughed at in medium range. That, with grenades, a pistol for precision and cleaning up 1-shots and the use of Spartan Abilities to help quickly close the gap should be enough to have a fighting chance. Not a guarantee, but a chance.
>
>
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> We are not talking about the beginning of the game where everything is even, we are talking about the down time between sniper spawns where one team has sniper control. Two BRs simply doesn’t cut it against a ‘fully equipped’ team where they are free to choose what they want to pick up. If you have to justify it with ‘well there are two BRs outside’ it implies you cannot effectively fight back without picking one up(or something similar).
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> All those things you mentioned, grenades, cleaning up one shots, spartan abilities, the other teams has all these same options and more so we are back to square one.

If one team is skilled enough to acquire all the weapons and lock down their section of the map, don’t they deserve to win? Isn’t the whole point of Slayer to get as many advantages as possible and win the game with it?

Everyone starts out equally. Whoever is better is going to win. Grabbing all the weapons and then winning with them isn’t being cheap. If your team uses proper teamwork and you are all decent at the game, I assure you that a comeback is possible as long as the score isn’t 49-23.

20

People have been complaining for years that their close range AR can’t compete against a mid range BR. It’s such a dumb complaint, and what’s even more dumb is the fact that 343 actually listened to these whiners and made the AR practically on par with the BR in H5. It seems to me like people don’t understand that the AR isn’t meant to cover anything past close range. In addition, they expect a pistol that can cover any ranges the AR can’t the way CE’s did. Newsflash: the BR is the new CE pistol. Use the BR as a secondary if you don’t want to be caught up at mid range with an AR that can’t fight back at that range.

The AR never needed a scope, maybe a slightly tighter spread, but that’s it. Starting with a BR and an AR is the way to go. The pistol’s role in the sandbox has diminished since the BR replaced it way back in Halo 2. It’s really only still here to represent nostalgia for CE.