Halo and Warfare Realism

Community General Discussion
1

Greetings folks!

I had an idea recently, shooter games have recently followed a pattern of becoming more sci-fi with more tech, and faster game-play. This has become cliche. Why not take a step back. How about instead of making the game more sci-fi, change game-play by applying resources in real world conflict.

My proposal is to employ the use of current modern technologies used in combat.

This can be done in 4 ways:

  1. Specialized Ammunition
    Currently tanks employ a variety of ammunition types, such as AP (armor piercing), HE (High explosive), APCR (armor piercing composite rigid), HESH (high explosive squash head), HEAT (High explosive Anti-tank), HEAT-FS (HEAT-fin stabilized), etcetera. How about employ this feature in Halo as well? How about giving tanks 2-3 different types of ammunition so that they must take the time to switch between ammo types to be effective against different threats. This topic will only cover AP/APCR, and HE. HEAT-FS, HEAT, and HESH are currently falling out of popularity in modern times as composite armor and spall liners are making the damage they cause ineffective.

In order for AP and APCR to do damage, they must hit their target directly, because they must penetrate vehicle armor for the small explosive filler to work. This makes the shells effective when hitting targets directly, and ineffective when trying to kill targets without hitting them.

On the other hand, HE has an explosive filler. It does damage from the explosions it creates. It is not effective against armor as it cannot penetrate. It is however effective against infantry as it generates a massive explosion when it detonates. This explosion can easily kill infantry and cripple light skinned vehicles.

If vehicles in Halo were equipped with these ammunition types as opposed to the assumed Dual Purpose rounds, a layer of tactical depth would be added to the game. Since vehicles in Halo have “infinite” ammunition this addition would be only a reload away. Vehicles such as the Scorpion, Banshee (Fuel Rod Cannon specific), Mantis, and Wasp would receive this modification. To balance against this, only certain types of weapons would have noticeable damage against armored vehicles unless the hit a soft spot (exhaust on the wraith for example). It would be harder for the tank to kill, but it would be harder to kill the tank.

  1. “Instant Gratification”
    Weapons in Halo often don’t have accurate muzzle velocities. Scorpions fire their main guns and often miss the target because the round was slow. Given the fact that Halo is 500 years in the future, ballistics technology should have advanced by leaps and bounds. Most engagements in Halo take place at ranges of less than 1000m. The Rheinmetall L/55 gun (the gun mounted on the Leopard 2) has a muzzle velocity of up to 1800m/s. That means the round would nearly instantaneously reach its target from the moment the tank fired. No waiting. Instant gratification. If this were to be implemented in Halo, the tank would be much more effective, and would force infantry to stay in cover, the way infantry vs armor works. To quote a marine “Tank beats everything!!!”

  2. Give us back grit!
    Halo 5 is very shiny… too shiny. A war zone isn’t clean. It’s muddy, wet, unstable, dirty, gruesome. A grenade going off doesn’t just kill people, it ruins the landscape too. Take away the shine, and give us mud. Battlefield 1 does this perfectly. It immerses you in a conflict bigger than you. It’s not just chunks of metal on gravel, it’s water-filled craters under the haze of battle. Instead of making Halo clean, give it some dirt.

  3. Smoke
    Situational awareness is key in warfare. Halo has too much. You can see all enemies in close quarters on your map. The only thing blocking line of sight are walls. Change up game-play by adding smoke. First, the addition of smoke grenades. A smoke grenade would create a temporary sight blocker. People could guess fire through it, but they would have no solid targets. The screen would dissipate after a short period of time. A player could customize their smoke color like they customize their armor. In addition to this, the smoke grenade itself could mess with the radar of nearby players. So a person would only be able to rely on their limited LOS. This would lead to tense close quarters fights, as players would see enemies when they practically bump into each other. Campers could be ratted out, because the smoke would level the playing field in rooms almost solely controlled by an enemy lying in wait. Second, heavy weapons would generate smoke. The massive muzzle flash the create would kick up a lot of dust and would cause players to often relocate because the dust would weaken their vision.

These are just some idea I have come up with, hope you guys consider them. Look forward to talking with you guys in the comments.

Thanks,
Stamper

2

Viable. Might be hard to implement and keep balance in the games but…viable.

3

What you’re doing is proposing gameplay mechanics because they would be more realistic. But gameplay mechanics should be created with the goal of making gameplay more fun, not necessarily with the goal of making it more realistic. Realism isn’t always a good thing in video games. And personally I think the idea of specialized tank ammo would needlessly complicate gameplay, and I can’t imagine smoke grenades being anything but frustrating and annoying.

Regarding mud, sure it would be fun to have a muddy, gritty multiplayer map. But more importantly, maps should have diverse themes, so players don’t get tired of the same scenery. So no, don’t “take away the shine, and give us mud”. Instead, give us the muddy map, but also give us a shiny map or two, to contrast with it. Incidentally, one of my favorite maps happens to be Apex 7 because I like sunny beaches with palm trees.

4

Sometimes,realism needs to stand back for gameplay balance.
Sure,destroyable enviroment would be cool,but people would abuse it to create for the enemy unreachable areas.

5

I feel like if ODST had a mass online multiplayer, kinda like battlefield, it would be like this.
When I read the title I thought I would hate the idea but I am finding myself enjoying it, OP seems to have put a fair amount of thought into it and I would love to see how this would work in a game. The setting sometime during the Human-Covenant War would be glorious.

6

> 2533274907200114;2:
> Viable. Might be hard to implement and keep balance in the games but…viable.

Try extremely hard to implement

7

Halo already has a realism issue.

point 1 just adds more confusion and button presses for people work through.

point 2 seems more of an issue with just a tank more so than the weapons overall. Just about everything hits you instantly. My next question is how does a banshee or opposing vehicles outlive a tank if you give it instant capabilities? Defeats the purpose of the maneuvering abilities would it not? Hard to dodge things if they smack you instantly anyways.

point 3 requires an engine overhaul for destructive environments like battlefield has (dirty gritty look can still be achieved without it though).

point 4 I can agree with as it wouldn’t be detrimental

8

> 2546678360738636;6:
> > 2533274907200114;2:
> > Viable. Might be hard to implement and keep balance in the games but…viable.
>
> Try extremely hard to implement

Well yeah thats basically what I said.

9

> 2533274907200114;8:
> > 2546678360738636;6:
> > > 2533274907200114;2:
> > > Viable. Might be hard to implement and keep balance in the games but…viable.
> >
> > Try extremely hard to implement
>
> Well yeah thats basically what I said.

I know. I’m just backing up what you said

10

I’ll play Battlefield if I want something like that like that. Halo’s base gameplay is simple and I think it should stay that way.

11

> 2533274880015812;1:
> Greetings folks!
>
> I had an idea recently, shooter games have recently followed a pattern of becoming more sci-fi with more tech, and faster game-play. This has become cliche. Why not take a step back. How about instead of making the game more sci-fi, change game-play by applying resources in real world conflict.
>
> My proposal is to employ the use of current modern technologies used in combat.
>
> This can be done in 4 ways:
> 1. Specialized Ammunition
> Currently tanks employ a variety of ammunition types, such as AP (armor piercing), HE (High explosive), APCR (armor piercing composite rigid), HESH (high explosive squash head), HEAT (High explosive Anti-tank), HEAT-FS (HEAT-fin stabilized), etcetera. How about employ this feature in Halo as well? How about giving tanks 2-3 different types of ammunition so that they must take the time to switch between ammo types to be effective against different threats. This topic will only cover AP/APCR, and HE. HEAT-FS, HEAT, and HESH are currently falling out of popularity in modern times as composite armor and spall liners are making the damage they cause ineffective.
>
> In order for AP and APCR to do damage, they must hit their target directly, because they must penetrate vehicle armor for the small explosive filler to work. This makes the shells effective when hitting targets directly, and ineffective when trying to kill targets without hitting them.
>
> On the other hand, HE has an explosive filler. It does damage from the explosions it creates. It is not effective against armor as it cannot penetrate. It is however effective against infantry as it generates a massive explosion when it detonates. This explosion can easily kill infantry and cripple light skinned vehicles.
>
> If vehicles in Halo were equipped with these ammunition types as opposed to the assumed Dual Purpose rounds, a layer of tactical depth would be added to the game. Since vehicles in Halo have “infinite” ammunition this addition would be only a reload away. Vehicles such as the Scorpion, Banshee (Fuel Rod Cannon specific), Mantis, and Wasp would receive this modification. To balance against this, only certain types of weapons would have noticeable damage against armored vehicles unless the hit a soft spot (exhaust on the wraith for example). It would be harder for the tank to kill, but it would be harder to kill the tank.
>
> 2. “Instant Gratification”
> Weapons in Halo often don’t have accurate muzzle velocities. Scorpions fire their main guns and often miss the target because the round was slow. Given the fact that Halo is 500 years in the future, ballistics technology should have advanced by leaps and bounds. Most engagements in Halo take place at ranges of less than 1000m. The Rheinmetall L/55 gun (the gun mounted on the Leopard 2) has a muzzle velocity of up to 1800m/s. That means the round would nearly instantaneously reach its target from the moment the tank fired. No waiting. Instant gratification. If this were to be implemented in Halo, the tank would be much more effective, and would force infantry to stay in cover, the way infantry vs armor works. To quote a marine “Tank beats everything!!!”
>
> 3. Give us back grit!
> Halo 5 is very shiny… too shiny. A war zone isn’t clean. It’s muddy, wet, unstable, dirty, gruesome. A grenade going off doesn’t just kill people, it ruins the landscape too. Take away the shine, and give us mud. Battlefield 1 does this perfectly. It immerses you in a conflict bigger than you. It’s not just chunks of metal on gravel, it’s water-filled craters under the haze of battle. Instead of making Halo clean, give it some dirt.
>
> 4. Smoke
> Situational awareness is key in warfare. Halo has too much. You can see all enemies in close quarters on your map. The only thing blocking line of sight are walls. Change up game-play by adding smoke. First, the addition of smoke grenades. A smoke grenade would create a temporary sight blocker. People could guess fire through it, but they would have no solid targets. The screen would dissipate after a short period of time. A player could customize their smoke color like they customize their armor. In addition to this, the smoke grenade itself could mess with the radar of nearby players. So a person would only be able to rely on their limited LOS. This would lead to tense close quarters fights, as players would see enemies when they practically bump into each other. Campers could be ratted out, because the smoke would level the playing field in rooms almost solely controlled by an enemy lying in wait. Second, heavy weapons would generate smoke. The massive muzzle flash the create would kick up a lot of dust and would cause players to often relocate because the dust would weaken their vision.
>
> These are just some idea I have come up with, hope you guys consider them. Look forward to talking with you guys in the comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Stamper

All of this would be awesome, but If this were added, it just wouldn’t be the same. It wouldn’t feel like halo, it’d be battlefield. It’d still be kinda cool though

12

Imagine with me, if you will, a Spartan, one of Humanity’s most vital military assets.

Now imagine that vital military asset camouflaging his state-of-the-art MJOLNIR in garish pinks and purples, and plastering his armory in MLG stickers.

Realism went out the airlock approximately five tacky paint-jobs ago. Some return to grit would be nice, but I sure as hell ain’t surrendering Private Pretty-In-Pink.

13

> 2533274932336216;12:
> Imagine with me, if you will, a Spartan, one of Humanity’s most vital military assets.
>
> Now imagine that vital military asset camouflaging his state-of-the-art MJOLNIR in garish pinks and purples, and plastering his armory in MLG stickers.
>
> Realism went out the airlock approximately five tacky paint-jobs ago. Some return to grit would be nice, but I sure as hell ain’t surrendering Private Pretty-In-Pink.

Personally I think that’s a good thing. As long as there are enough color options, Private Pretty-In-Pink can have those garish pinks and purples, while other Spartans could choose more gritty, camouflagy colors like moss, if they prefer. But whether or not it’s realistic, having more options is the key thing. Besides, maybe Private Pretty-In-Pink uses active camo anyway.

14

> 2533274904158628;13:
> > 2533274932336216;12:
> > Imagine with me, if you will, a Spartan, one of Humanity’s most vital military assets.
> >
> > Now imagine that vital military asset camouflaging his state-of-the-art MJOLNIR in garish pinks and purples, and plastering his armory in MLG stickers.
> >
> > Realism went out the airlock approximately five tacky paint-jobs ago. Some return to grit would be nice, but I sure as hell ain’t surrendering Private Pretty-In-Pink.
>
> Personally I think that’s a good thing. As long as there are enough color options, Private Pretty-In-Pink can have those garish pinks and purples, while other Spartans could choose more gritty, camouflagy colors like moss, if they prefer. But whether or not it’s realistic, having more options is the key thing. Besides, maybe Private Pretty-In-Pink uses active camo anyway.

Private Pretty-In-Pink likes to dress for success AND to fight pragmatically, what can I say?

Praise the Active Camo.

15

Okay, so from what I’m gathering, some people enjoy the smoke aspect of it, and people think that grit in Halo isn’t the “proper” direction. How about taking these 2 components and combining them.

Let players use smoke grenades that have custom colors. A player would choose their color just like they do their armor, and when thrown the smoke grenade would release that colored smoke. It would be a clean vivid smoke as to go along with the current art style.

Vehicles would not generate smoke (as much as I would like them to).

16

> 2533274923562209;7:
> Halo already has a realism issue.
>
> point 1 just adds more confusion and button presses for people work through.
>
> point 2 seems more of an issue with just a tank more so than the weapons overall. Just about everything hits you instantly. My next question is how does a banshee or opposing vehicles outlive a tank if you give it instant capabilities? Defeats the purpose of the maneuvering abilities would it not? Hard to dodge things if they smack you instantly anyways.
>
> point 3 requires an engine overhaul for destructive environments like battlefield has (dirty gritty look can still be achieved without it though).
>
> point 4 I can agree with as it wouldn’t be detrimental

One of the counterbalances to point 2 could be giving aircraft a higher map ceiling, and a greater weapons range. Modern aircraft engage targets at massive distances, so would it be possible to increase the ceiling for aircraft, and increase their engagement range? The larger range would also enable the possible introduction of something along the lines of a stationary AA mount or a dedicated SPAAG. Infantry and armor would be put at a disadvantage with this greater ceiling. Tanks would counter this with their ability to hit targets almost immediately, and infantry would have to seek out either heavy weapons, or anti aircraft weaponry. It would open a number of doors in terms of combat. Good pilots would have to stay high and out of range of enemy fire, but would have to take a ride through the danger zone in order to strike their targets.

Just an idea, hope you enjoy!

17

To tag onto what I said about a dedicated SPAD, vehicles of this kind range from stuff like:

AA gun systems mounted on tank or armored car chassis

1200×900 209 KB

Missiles mounted on light tracked or wheeled vehicles

Combination weapons mounted onto tracked or wheeled vehicles (this one looks particularly menacing)

I think the game could really benefit with these additions. Warzone in my opinion is almost claustrophobic when I’m flying. 90% of the time I am flying I am either forced to the map limits to avoid damage, or attempting a ground strike getting hammered by everyone and their small arms. I think it could truly help Halo if implemented properly.

18

> 2533274880015812;17:
> To tag onto what I said about a dedicated SPAD, vehicles of this kind range from stuff like:
>
> AA gun systems mounted on tank or armored car chassis
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Marksman_SPAAG.jpg/1200px-Marksman_SPAAG.jpg
>
> Missiles mounted on light tracked or wheeled vehicles
> http://armour.ws/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Stormer-Anti-air-vehicle-Starstreak.jpg
>
> Combination weapons mounted onto tracked or wheeled vehicles (this one looks particularly menacing)
> https://static.businessinsider.com/image/5538eef569bedd1a4083f31c/image.jpg
>
> I think the game could really benefit with these additions. Warzone in my opinion is almost claustrophobic when I’m flying. 90% of the time I am flying I am either forced to the map limits to avoid damage, or attempting a ground strike getting hammered by everyone and their small arms. I think it could truly help Halo if implemented properly.

All
your points are viable and personally I agree with your stance on many of the points raised, however for the halo we know and play, not just from a game mechanics standpoint but also from a fun factor point it wouldn’t really benefit halo.

The gritty perspective can work by having your armour get dirty and dented during a match and allowing for more destructability on maps, I think that isn’t too much of a stretch. Use of mounted turrets and even the example you gave of AAA can work for future war zone and invasion with increased map size. Instant gratification with the tank for example is varied to the type you are driving, standard, ONI, Hannibal and so on. It is all done for balancing and giving reason for variants to exist.

The various ammo types, countermeasures and removal of some of those loud colour schemes is what would removes the ease of play, fun factor and turns halo from a pick up and play FPS into a simulation shooter. The halo universe has the scope for such a game, but that would have to be a game or mod to its own. As for pink armour and tramp stamped weapons, even war zone is a game in a game, as long as it doesn’t show up in campaign let it be. Also custom playlist can allow for such MP game modes to happen.

If I had to put my two cents in, for grit I would bring back the blood like seen in CE. You are doing hyper lethal assassinations with next to no blood…come now. Instead of various ammo types, give more vehicles a secondary fire option. Bring back use if the tank turrent MG, let a warthog have a fire forward only option if it’s just the driver. Give UNSC flying craft countermeasures to counter guided munitions the same way the alien craft have a manoeuvre option, proximity determining effectiveness.

I think they strike a decent middle ground to satisfy all parties.

19

Also next time use the chain icon at the top of the text box the create clickable links under key words. Saves us all a bit of time. And the last link is a pic of the Russian anti air tank, the Tunguska. It is what I would think the Sundevil, the AAA scorpion should mirror.

20

ok quic fix, play ARMA3 with a halo mod. a lot of these details you have pointed out can be done in forge, but you raise good points my friend.