Halo and Major League Gaming, Halo fan talk

Now before people bash me on how MLG is lame and blah blah blah, I would like to let people know, we all hate MLG being an almost completely different game from default settings. ( At least in Reach. ) My goal is to make you guys fans of MLG and what it TRULY represents. It’s not about pros, trash talk, or anything that people label MLG as. It’s about socializing, making friends. It’s about coming together as a community and having a lot of fun in real life face to face. That is what MLG is about.

The point of this thread is for the average Halo fan to give constructive criticism on MLG. If you were the main gametype creator for MLG, what would you do? Would you allow armor abilities? Would you let loadouts have customization or would you make a set of pre-made loadouts? Big maps for certain gametypes? Small maps? ( But remember MLG is all about 4v4 games. )

The goal here is to understand what YOU guys would want to see at MLG. What would make you want to follow MLG and become a fan. There isn’t a bigger event for Halo gameplay than MLG. This is a way for us to come together and shake hands.

Please, I ask you, keep it friendly and really think about what you say. Blind bashng of MLG or the average Halo community does not help anybody.

With Halo 4 on the way, t it can either be the best Halo events for the next 3-4 years, or people can still fight and bicker for no real reason. Make your choice.

It’s not really the actual MLG that ticks me off so much as all the MLG wannabes prancing around lately.

Nothing but core gameplay.

Standard starting weapons.

No BS armor abilities.

Maps that make sense and are balanced.

I don’t know how armor abilities and the like will work as pick-ups, but if they are functional as such, I would be open to the option of having pick-ups placed strategically around the map, similar to Reach’s current system.

> It’s not really the actual MLG that ticks me off so much as all the MLG wannabes prancing around lately.

You obviously know they’re wannabes. Just ignore them. If you guys actually knew really GOOD people like Ninja, they’re all great guys who just love Halo as much as us all. With Halo 4 being at Dallas 4 days before release, this is a good opportunity for Halo players and MLG. MLG will gain fans and viewership while Halo gets some good coverage. Everybody wins. Just saddens me how -Yoinked!- the community of both sides have gotten.

> > It’s not really the actual MLG that ticks me off so much as all the MLG wannabes prancing around lately.
>
> You obviously know they’re wannabes. Just ignore them. If you guys actually knew really GOOD people like Ninja, they’re all great guys who just love Halo as much as us all. With Halo 4 being at Dallas 4 days before release, this is a good opportunity for Halo players and MLG. MLG will gain fans and viewership while Halo gets some good coverage. Everybody wins. <mark>Just saddens me how -Yoinked!- the community of both sides have gotten.</mark>

What do you mean by both sides? Are you saying that the 2 sides are competitive and casual? Because I cant take you seriously if you think the only type of Halo players are either competitive or casual.

> Nothing but core gameplay.
>
> Standard starting weapons.
>
> No BS armor abilities.
>
> Maps that make sense and are balanced.
>
> I don’t know how armor abilities and the like will work as pick-ups, but if they are functional as such, I would be open to the option of having pick-ups placed strategically around the map, similar to Reach’s current system.

I thought jetpack worked fine as a AA pickup. Others not so much.

> > > It’s not really the actual MLG that ticks me off so much as all the MLG wannabes prancing around lately.
> >
> > You obviously know they’re wannabes. Just ignore them. If you guys actually knew really GOOD people like Ninja, they’re all great guys who just love Halo as much as us all. With Halo 4 being at Dallas 4 days before release, this is a good opportunity for Halo players and MLG. MLG will gain fans and viewership while Halo gets some good coverage. Everybody wins. <mark>Just saddens me how -Yoinked!- the community of both sides have gotten.</mark>
>
> What do you mean by both sides? Are you saying that the 2 sides are competitive and casual? Because I cant take you seriously if you think the only type of Halo players are either competitive or casual.

Notice how I didn’t represent the rest of the Halo community as “casual.” Trying to show a bit of respect here.

I know MLG isn’t like that, just a few people really can make them look bad though. In fact, recently I’ve gotten into their gameplay and have learned many new tactics and actually was able to tie or even beat people I used to never have a chance against. In addition, I’m subscibed to both Bravo and Nak3d Eli on Youtube and watch almost every video they put out. I just do get tired of seeing nothing but the DMR, power weapons, and 1v1’s on Sanctuary.

For the maps I’d say to keep Haven and Adrift, maybe close off the outside areas on the latter if they don’t like them. Any unrevealed base maps I’d say give a chance. Make and accept community maps of course, and try to make them look appealing as well as long as it doesn’t cause framerate. Limit the remakes slightly to just some well forged maps that work with MLG (Select?). I have a feeling players are getting tired of seeing Sanc and The Pit all the time and want a spiritual successor or something completely new.

For the gametype, I think it’d be cool if either full customization is allowed (Maybe throw out any too gamebreaking armor mods though) or if that doesn’t work, then preset loadouts with all 7 primaries and a Magnum secondary with Frags with powerful AA’s on the map.

Power weapons should drop down on the map like they do in the gametypes we’ve seen, however give static timers so good players can still predict when they’ll drop. I think POD’s could work since you have to be a team player to get multiple drops.

> It’s not really the actual MLG that ticks me off so much as all the MLG wannabes prancing around lately.

This. I Admire the true MLG players. But the kids flaunting around saying what is and isn’t good is what’s annoying. The wannabes give them a TERRIBLE rep.

> I know MLG isn’t like that, just a few people really can make them look bad though. In fact, recently I’ve gotten into their gameplay and have learned many new tactics and actually was able to tie or even beat people I used to never have a chance against. I just do get tired of seeing nothing but the DMR, power weapons, and 1v1’s on Sanctuary.
>
> For the maps I’d say to keep Haven and Adrift, maybe close off the outside areas on the latter if they don’t like them. Any unrevealed base maps I’d say give a chance. Make and accept community maps of course, and try to make them look appealing as well as long as it doesn’t cause framerate.
>
> For the gametype, I think it’d be cool if either full customization is allowed (Maybe throw out any too gamebreaking armor mods though) or if that doesn’t work, then preset loadouts with all 7 primaries and a Magnum secondary with Frags with powerful AA’s on the map.
>
> <mark>Power weapons should drop down on the map like they do in the gametypes we’ve seen, however give static timers so good players can still predict when they’ll drop.</mark> I think POD’s could work since you have to be a team player to get multiple drops.

So what you’re saying is you WOULD like to have people earn their drops rather than just having the drop on a set timer? ( aka oldschool ways )

> > It’s not really the actual MLG that ticks me off so much as all the MLG wannabes prancing around lately.
>
> This. I Admire the true MLG players. But the kids flaunting around saying what is and isn’t good is what’s annoying. The wannabes give them a TERRIBLE rep.

Well some people blindly hate things. I agree. But sometimes I see people on waypoint bash others with real gameplay concerns. Why? Just because they don’t drool over everything 343 does. I think both are equally as bad. It’s a matter of ignoring these people.

> > I know MLG isn’t like that, just a few people really can make them look bad though. In fact, recently I’ve gotten into their gameplay and have learned many new tactics and actually was able to tie or even beat people I used to never have a chance against. I just do get tired of seeing nothing but the DMR, power weapons, and 1v1’s on Sanctuary.
> >
> > For the maps I’d say to keep Haven and Adrift, maybe close off the outside areas on the latter if they don’t like them. Any unrevealed base maps I’d say give a chance. Make and accept community maps of course, and try to make them look appealing as well as long as it doesn’t cause framerate.
> >
> > For the gametype, I think it’d be cool if either full customization is allowed (Maybe throw out any too gamebreaking armor mods though) or if that doesn’t work, then preset loadouts with all 7 primaries and a Magnum secondary with Frags with powerful AA’s on the map.
> >
> > <mark>Power weapons should drop down on the map like they do in the gametypes we’ve seen, however give static timers so good players can still predict when they’ll drop.</mark> I think POD’s could work since you have to be a team player to get multiple drops.
>
> So what you’re saying is you WOULD like to have people earn their drops rather than just having the drop on a set timer? ( aka oldschool ways )

No. People earn their drops in POD’s. The neutral ordinance drops are what I was talking about in the highlighted portion, where for example every 2 minutes a Sniper Drops, but not exactly in the same spot each time and players have a decent warning ahead of time.

EDIT: Maybe even have it like sequential kind of the hill where it’s a cycle?

> > > I know MLG isn’t like that, just a few people really can make them look bad though. In fact, recently I’ve gotten into their gameplay and have learned many new tactics and actually was able to tie or even beat people I used to never have a chance against. I just do get tired of seeing nothing but the DMR, power weapons, and 1v1’s on Sanctuary.
> > >
> > > For the maps I’d say to keep Haven and Adrift, maybe close off the outside areas on the latter if they don’t like them. Any unrevealed base maps I’d say give a chance. Make and accept community maps of course, and try to make them look appealing as well as long as it doesn’t cause framerate.
> > >
> > > For the gametype, I think it’d be cool if either full customization is allowed (Maybe throw out any too gamebreaking armor mods though) or if that doesn’t work, then preset loadouts with all 7 primaries and a Magnum secondary with Frags with powerful AA’s on the map.
> > >
> > > <mark>Power weapons should drop down on the map like they do in the gametypes we’ve seen, however give static timers so good players can still predict when they’ll drop.</mark> I think POD’s could work since you have to be a team player to get multiple drops.
> >
> > So what you’re saying is you WOULD like to have people earn their drops rather than just having the drop on a set timer? ( aka oldschool ways )
>
> No. People earn their drops in POD’s. The neutral ordinance drops are what I was talking about in the highlighted portion, where for example every 2 minutes a Sniper Drops every 2 minutes, but not exactly in the same spot each time.

Interesting. I’m going to be very unbiased and not give my opinions by the way. I want this thread to show people at MLG what all fans outside of their community would be interested in watching.

It’s nice to see a mature discussion without flaming, keep that up everyone.

Although in terms of sprint, most AA’s, vehicles and other sandbox weapons I see no reason why they can’t be considered competitive.

Sure I understand a level playing field but after seeing all that is Halo 4 I’m confident that over 90% of things can remain and be competitive. MLG just have to adjust themselves for not so predictable events in game.

Not being predictable does not mean being random.

For example look at high level professional paintball, are you telling me that tripping over, having a paintball misfire, wind factors, new teams vs. old teams etc and all those variables that are unpredictable could be ironed out and over simplified like MLG Halo 3 or MLG Reach?

The simple answer is no, same as formula one or any other real life sport, things are unpredictable and the professional are the ones that iron things out with skill, anticipation, decision and teamwork etc.

For a player like me that plays large amount of Halo and have never touched MLG but respects their level of skill, dedication and professionalism for the most part they have a large gap to bridge to entice a player like me.

I like vehicles, I like radar, I like brute shot, I don’t like spawn camping etc

To me Halo 4 seems to have learned a great deal from Reach and bridging the gap between casual and competitive. I think it’s time MLG made some changes to spice up their game play.

I know forge maps, BR/DMR & grenades get very boring very quickly for me to watch.

Why are vehicles, radar, assault, asymmetrical maps, mid-large maps and all the sandbox goodies not considered competitive?

Golf has many tournament conditions, many player conditions as does car racing and just about every other sport that has kids versions, weekend versions and full blown professional versions.

I know I didn’t play MLG in Halo 2, Halo 3 or Reach because I prefer the game from the developer over the MLG version.

I do however love a lot of what MLG does e.g. faster gameplay, better strafe, fast kill times, teamwork, individual skill retained as well.

I do NOT like MLG no radar, lack of sandbox (of course agree armour lock should never be in competitive play etc), no vehicles etc.

You get where I’m coming from, I’m a veteran, I enjoy messing around, I like to be competitive to the end but I usually play random objective or in a team with BTB.

If MLG want to bring a large audience they need to adjust themselves to align closer to the masses that play Halo. The developer is providing very high level of customisation and hopefully default developer designed maps that enable tournament play.

Combine designer maps (not forge maps), closer to default developer settings and some variables (not wild randomness) and I’d actually start to watch or play MLG more.

> Nothing but core gameplay.
>
> Standard starting weapons.
>
> No BS armor abilities.
>
> Maps that make sense and are balanced.
>
> I don’t know how armor abilities and the like will work as pick-ups, but if they are functional as such, I would be open to the option of having pick-ups placed strategically around the map, similar to Reach’s current system.

This is how I expect to see MLG work in terms of Spawning loadouts.

However, I could see them creating a selection of “BR, DMR, Carbine, or LR” off Spawn, with a Magnum no matter what.

I doubt there will be spawning AAs but I could see there being AAs as powerups.

I wouldn’t mind it if all the loadouts in the game (1-4 depending on preference of Precision weapons) had the same 2 Armour Mods. Say, Resupply Tac-Pack so you can pick up nades off bodies like standard Halo, and then a Sup-Up that works well too.

And I could see them using the Ordinance Drop system if they can customize the possible contents to be gained. So they can make it so the only things that can drop are Ammo for primary weapons, and grenades or something.

I’d like to see MLG adopt a slightly wider variety of weapons on-map though.

For instance, I think in Halo Reach the Concussion Rifle could have fit nicely on a few MLG maps, it’s not too overpowered unless used by a skilled player (like Snipers and Grenade Launchers), it’s completely unique compared to the rest of the sandbox, and it has a decent skill gap. To be honest, I think between it and the Grenade Launcher, there should not have been any Rocket Spawns on MLG maps, as either of them were fitting replacements.

I was really hoping the MLG settings for Halo 4 wouldn’t have to be way different from vanilla like in Reach, but I don’t see that happening with all these “interesting” new features they’re putting in.

There are two things that make me turn me away from MLG

The fan base who act like they’re pro, scream and trash talk in matches, swear by K/D, W/L, and rank, and force MLG on everyone else.

The people, players and fanbase who act like MLG knows more about Halo than someone who has never touched MP match making, and think that MLG should be the ones who control what happens in Halo.

The players who go to actual MLG matches, and compete, those people I respect cause they are good, but when they leave those MLG matches, they’re just everyday Joe to me.

MLG is annoying because of their negative influence on people that turns them into annoying idiots and how they make a lot of people demand that the entire game follows MLG “lead” and design the game around their niche playlist.

and it is niche, they do limit the game to a specific playstyle and no variation. Similar to Grifball, it’s also a limited niche playstyle. But it becomes a problem when many people start to think that this niche should become the norm. Completely unaware that if it does then you’ll lose the majority of players in the game. Why can’t I have a gametype where I can win using the Plasma Pistol? Why is everybody trying to force me to only ever use the BR/DMR? Aren’t I allowed for my own playlist, even if it’s a niche itself?

I’m also kinda against “professional competitive gaming” in general for long various reasons, but I do respect some areas of it. I’ll respect many Street Fighter players for the way they play the game, or even Starcraft players. But I have very little respect for Halo MLG players. Usually because with those other players, if something makes everything else redundant then it’s either patched, or banned until it’s patched. Halo on the other hand limits the game to just that one weapon instead.

Sure, when SF4 was released, it was just boring Ken versus Sagat fights, but they learned new strategies and after several patches we get many different matches from the variations of characters and playstyles. If I watch a Halo MLG match, can I sit down and see an interesting battle between a Plasma Repeater and a Plasa Rifle? Can I watch how someone uses the Spiker against a Plasma Pistol? Are there different attack styles and strategies that the “pros” can use that I can learn and use myself? No, all I see is BR/DMR sidestepping duels.
Several months ago I was near the end of my gym workout and Halo MLG was on the TV (for some reason I don’t know) and it kept switching between Halo 2, 3 and Reach. I had trouble realising which game or matches were being played because they all looked the same.

If you open up and allow variation, you open yourself up to players who can find new ways to play the game and completely change up the format. Look at Boxer of Starcraft fame. He became famous because he used Terran, during a time where they were considered underpowered or redundant compared to the Zerg and Protoss, mircomanaged them around all his foes and completely changed the way people played and viewed Starcraft. All because he took a chance and learned another way to use them.

> > > It’s not really the actual MLG that ticks me off so much as all the MLG wannabes prancing around lately.
> >
> > You obviously know they’re wannabes. Just ignore them. If you guys actually knew really GOOD people like Ninja, they’re all great guys who just love Halo as much as us all. With Halo 4 being at Dallas 4 days before release, this is a good opportunity for Halo players and MLG. MLG will gain fans and viewership while Halo gets some good coverage. Everybody wins. <mark>Just saddens me how -Yoinked!- the community of both sides have gotten.</mark>
>
> What do you mean by both sides? Are you saying that the 2 sides are competitive and casual? Because I cant take you seriously if you think the only type of Halo players are either competitive or casual.

The way I think of two separate sides are those who prefer the balanced mlg play. Like those who play smash bros with no items on. And there is the the other side that plays with everything that the game gives them mastering and learning the weakest of what each thing has in the game. I prefer the latter. Yes there is unbalanced things but honestly I prefer having everything in the game there like with smash bros I love those Items :smiley:

When I think of casual to a game it people who do play the game that much or not really a fan of it. I would say I am more casual with cod, well I have all but 1 of them I bought them because of friends.

> MLG is annoying because of their negative influence on people that turns them into annoying idiots and how they make a lot of people demand that the entire game follows MLG “lead” and design the game around their niche playlist.

So competitive gamers prefer competitive game mechanics? Thats a shocker.

Many of the things the competitive community wants benefits all of Halo’s gameplay,

-Good strafe/movement mechanics so you can out-shoot enemies and have freedom of movement

-Not too much clutter or random factors in the gameplay which is how Halo was until Reach

  • Fast killing high skilled weapons and a Balanced Sandbox to encourage mix and matching

  • Intelligent 4v4 maps that flow well

  • Longevity for the multiplayer through ranking systems and tournament exposure.

Those are the things the competitive community pushes for, a good core Halo game that can be tweaked to suit every playlist.

> and it is niche, they do limit the game to a specific playstyle and no variation. Similar to Grifball, it’s also a limited niche playstyle. But it becomes a problem when many people start to think that this niche should become the norm. Completely unaware that if it does then you’ll lose the majority of players in the game. Why can’t I have a gametype where I can win using the Plasma Pistol? Why is everybody trying to force me to only ever use the BR/DMR? Aren’t I allowed for my own playlist, even if it’s a niche itself?

So…the most hardcore playlist in a FPS is niche, wow that is a shocker. You dont seem to realize that the MLG playlist is designed around tournament settings that are played for big money and tailored to create the widest skill gap. Halo has like 5 main weapons used in competitive play, the norm for competitive shooters is to have only the essentials to remove redundancy and not have unfavorable weapons clutter up the Sandbox. There is 4 niche ranges in FPS short,medium,long, and utility and MLG settings covers all of them. The variety in which they are used, is widely dependent on Sandbox balance which has fluctuated with each Halo title but the essentials have always been there.

> I’m also kinda against “professional competitive gaming” in general for long various reasons, but I do respect some areas of it. I’ll respect many Street Fighter players for the way they play the game, or even Starcraft players. But I have very little respect for Halo MLG players. Usually because with those other players, if something makes everything else redundant then it’s either patched, or banned until it’s patched. Halo on the other hand limits the game to just that one weapon instead.

I dont know what your problem is, Halo has always featured a high skilled utility weapon in competitive play that will never change. It is essential to how 4v4 Halo plays in providing a weapon to defend yourself with off spawn and be a threat no matter where you are on the map. MLG settings have been very close to regular Halo Team slayer settings until Reach where there was more factors added that did not work out in adding to the game. The whole reason different playlists are made is to create different play-styles in the game, if you dont like MLG’s play-style then dont play it.

> Sure, when SF4 was released, it was just boring Ken versus Sagat fights, but they learned new strategies and after several patches we get many different matches from the variations of characters and playstyles. If I watch a Halo MLG match, can I sit down and see an interesting battle between a Plasma Repeater and a Plasa Rifle? Can I watch how someone uses the Spiker against a Plasma Pistol? Are there different attack styles and strategies that the “pros” can use that I can learn and use myself? No, all I see is BR/DMR sidestepping duels.

Of course that is all you’re going to see with your limited understanding of competitive play, the tactics and strategy in Halo games evolves as the game goes on there is no set weapon roles. Halo is more skill-based than role-based it never was a class-based game but more Arena-styled. There is definitely different strategies and tactics the pros use, but the fast-paced and adaptive nature of the game makes the game more about adapting your strategy on the fly rather than executing one.

> Several months ago I was near the end of my gym workout and Halo MLG was on the TV (for some reason I don’t know) and it kept switching between Halo 2, 3 and Reach. I had trouble realising which game or matches were being played because they all looked the same.

Close to the same settings were used, so that would be no surprise. The differences in mechanics however are quite huge if you know Halo.

> If you open up and allow variation, you open yourself up to players who can find new ways to play the game and completely change up the format. Look at Boxer of Starcraft fame. He became famous because he used Terran, during a time where they were considered underpowered or redundant compared to the Zerg and Protoss, mircomanaged them around all his foes and completely changed the way people played and viewed Starcraft. All because he took a chance and learned another way to use them.

[/quote]
Again, comparing a RTS to an Arena-style FPS but ill try to find an example like that. In H2, with the rise in requirement for team-work/coordination due to the slowed kill times, Final Boss was the first team to successively implement “soft roles” into Halo making organized play a higher requirement then straight out slaying skill as we saw in H1 with the huge individual skill gap. Again, trying to fit Halo into the “mold” of other games is impossible, its a unique game with its own set of rules. That is probably why there is so many people ignorant of the game, they dont really understand it.