Halo 5's populaion will tank, here's why.

Let me begin by showing you a graph of Halo 4’s population over time.
Look closely.
http://i.imgur.com/PmG3gKo.png
Halo 4 lost 90% of its population within 4 months.

343 clearly hasn’t learned a thing from Halo 4’s colossal failure because they’re building Halo 5 on the very principle that caused Halo 4’s downfall.
Taking away the classic Halo experience and adding terrible gameplay gimmicks such as sprint, which is the main culprit here, just for the sake of “innovation”.
These gimmicks’ only purpose is to appeal to a casual audience. On the other hand they alienate the competitive community because such terrible gimmicks have absolutely no place in a competitive setting. That is why competitive players abandoned Halo 4 almost instantly.
Appealing to a casual fanbase is only good for initial sales. After all the very idea of being a “casual” is that you don’t really stick to one game.
For a game to last, it needs to appeal to both playerbases. Why were Halo 2 and 3 so incredibly popular for such long times? Because they perfected the appeal to both types of players.
Halo 5 is built around sprint, which immediately removes any competitive merit this game could’ve had.
Not to mention all the other useless “innovations” like smart scope that only further deviate the game from Halo’s classic feel.
It’s not a question whether or not it will tank, it will. We’ll just have to see how fast it tanks.

In order to illustrate my point, find me a person with multiple legit 50s in H3 who actually likes the direction H5 is taking.
I have well over 100 players on my friendlist (all 50s) and guess what? Not a single one likes Halo 5.
Go ahead and try, you’ll be very lucky to find someone with multiple 50s who actually likes H5’s direction.

Another Sprint hate post I see? The reason I left Halo 4 was the lack of Rank/True Skill, and the reason why Halo 2 and 3 lasted so long was there wasn’t any real competition at that time, now with the throw away C.O.D games been released something like 2 a year Halo no matter with or without Sprint won’t see the days of old.

ok you know what? stop saying the word competitive i am so sick of that yoinking word everytime i read or hear it i get a headache why must everything be a sport to you?

How do you know if bungie tryed to appeal to casuals for halo 3.

> 2533274805989038;1:
> Let me begin by showing you a graph of Halo 4’s population over time.
> Look closely.
> Halo 4 lost 90% of its population within 4 months.
>
> 343 clearly hasn’t learned a thing from Halo 4’s colossal failure because they’re building Halo 5 on the very principle that caused Halo 4’s downfall.
> Taking away the classic Halo experience and adding terrible gameplay gimmicks such as sprint, which is the main culprit here, just for the sake of “innovation”.
> These gimmicks’ only purpose is to appeal to a casual audience. On the other hand they alienate the competitive community because such terrible gimmicks have absolutely no place in a competitive setting. That is why competitive players abandoned Halo 4 almost instantly.
> Appealing to a casual fanbase is only good for initial sales. After all the very idea of being a “casual” is that you don’t really stick to one game.
> For a game to last, it needs to appeal to both playerbases. Why were Halo 2 and 3 so incredibly popular for such long times? Because they perfected the appeal to both types of players.
> Halo 5 is built around sprint, which immediately removes any competitive merit this game could’ve had.
> Not to mention all the other useless “innovations” like smart scope that only further deviate the game from Halo’s classic feel.
> It’s not a question whether or not it will tank, it will. We’ll just have to see how fast it tanks.
>
> In order to illustrate my point, find me a person with multiple legit 50s in H3 who actually likes the direction H5 is taking.
> I have well over 100 players on my friendlist (all 50s) and guess what? Not a single one likes Halo 5.
> Go ahead and try, you’ll be very lucky to find someone with multiple 50s who actually likes H5’s direction.

Can I be that guy to say that, in my humble opinion, Halo 5 (from what we saw in the beta) is genuinely targeting the competitive community. The faster pace, almost non-existent auto-aim and team focus mean this could have the largest skill gap of any Halo game to date. Including Halo 2.

And why the hate on sprint? If you’d spent any good length of time with the Halo 5 beta you’d know that it didn’t break anything. All I hear from people recently is “That’s not Halo”, “Halo 5 is CoD” and “sprinting is for filthy casuals”. Any change that gets made to the formula and all of a sudden it’s automatically terrible and shouldn’t be released or supported? You’re blind.

If tomorrow, 343i released a game that played exactly like Halo 2 or 3, and asked $60 for it, it would fail in the market. This is because no matter how much people claim to want more “Classic Halo”, people don’t want the exact same game again (even if they don’t know it). If no changes were made between Halo 3 and Halo 5, 343i would take so much hate and anger from players. But when they change anything, they get hate anyway. Seriously, look at what you want in a new release: Halo 3: 2.0, or Halo 5: That Game You Haven’t Played 50 Times On Your 360.

To quote a corrupt leader: “Soon, the Great Journey shall begin. But when it does, the weight of your heresy will stay your feet, and you shall be left behind”

I’m really getting tired of these same hate-threads over and over again…

I mean seriously OP, what new do you bring to the discussion that hasn’t been repeated over a thousand times?

You could record those same old arguments and sell it in form of a prayer wheel…

… Halo 4 colossal failure …
… same failures in Halo 5 …
… catering to the casuals …
… Sprint instantly ruins the game …
… good players would never like such a game …

Wololo!

Jesus… that simplifying world view alone - that ignorance to acknowledge that times have changed since the H3 days.
That ignorance to acknowledge at least something that 343i changed for the better (there is NO competetive merit?!).
That one-sided, arrogant (“only 50’s count”), know-all (“there’s no question H5 will tank”) tone.

If you would at least contribute anything to the discussion!

We probably don’t even know half of H5’s MP features/modes yet - and you’re already declaring the game dead in the water?
Congrats for your clairvoyant capabilities!

> 2533274805989038;1:
> Let me begin by showing you a graph of Halo 4’s population over time.
> Look closely.
> Halo 4 lost 90% of its population within 4 months.
>
> 343 clearly hasn’t learned a thing from Halo 4’s colossal failure because they’re building Halo 5 on the very principle that caused Halo 4’s downfall.
> Taking away the classic Halo experience and adding terrible gameplay gimmicks such as sprint, which is the main culprit here, just for the sake of “innovation”.
> These gimmicks’ only purpose is to appeal to a casual audience. On the other hand they alienate the competitive community because such terrible gimmicks have absolutely no place in a competitive setting. That is why competitive players abandoned Halo 4 almost instantly.
> Appealing to a casual fanbase is only good for initial sales. After all the very idea of being a “casual” is that you don’t really stick to one game.
> For a game to last, it needs to appeal to both playerbases. Why were Halo 2 and 3 so incredibly popular for such long times? Because they perfected the appeal to both types of players.
> Halo 5 is built around sprint, which immediately removes any competitive merit this game could’ve had.
> Not to mention all the other useless “innovations” like smart scope that only further deviate the game from Halo’s classic feel.
> It’s not a question whether or not it will tank, it will. We’ll just have to see how fast it tanks.
>
> In order to illustrate my point, find me a person with multiple legit 50s in H3 who actually likes the direction H5 is taking.
> I have well over 100 players on my friendlist (all 50s) and guess what? Not a single one likes Halo 5.
> Go ahead and try, you’ll be very lucky to find someone with multiple 50s who actually likes H5’s direction.

oooh yeah the “I have a ton of friends who are good at halo that don’t like halo 5 so its not competitive and it sucks” argument. Well in that case, I have multiple friends who are good at halo who played the beta at my house and loved it. So based off of your logic, its a good, competitive game right? And really? Building halo 5 off of the principle of halo 4’s demise?? So a heavy emphasis on equal starts, map control, and an overall dedication to the competitive, arena aspects of the game caused halo 4 to flop? No, first off there was much less competition for halo back with halo 1-3, everyone knows this but chooses to ignore this fact when talking crap on halos modern day population drops. And second off, it was load outs, ordnance drops, and the whole CoD-ish feel of the multiplayer that did in halo 4. And obviously Halo 4 was not the best Halo, but to be honest I haven’t played a better online shooter since Halo 4, it is still better than any shooter to come out in the last 2 and a half years IMO. Just definitely not the strongest halo game. I don’t think H5:G’s population will tank, but it wont be like the old days either. There is just simply too much competition these days (especially other FPS’) and too many young kids hopping from one shooter to the next regardless of the quality difference from title to title. But I actually expect halo 5 to maintain a healthy population for a long enough time. And you can expect this game to sell like hot cakes and push a crap load of XB1’s.

> 2533274805989038;1:
> It’s not a question whether or not it will tank, it will. We’ll just have to see how fast it tanks.

Come on, man, you’ve already used your prophetic abilities to tell us that it will tank. Take it a step further, can’t you push out another mystical prediction and tell us when?

“The Prophets are liars!”

And I already own Halo 3. On two different consoles.

I also have a friend who’s a 50 in H3; he’s gone back and forth on Halo 5, but ultimately says he’s going to get the game. Because as an honorable 50, his approval and opinion matter sooooo much to me.

Sprint in Halo 4 was like a lot of the things 343 tried to bring to Halo 4. Good concept implemented poorly. Loadouts shouldn’t have had perks and should have been for Spartan Ops only. Dominion tried to be Invasion 2.0 but they forget to put in escalating phases. Spartan Ops was cool episodic content but they forgot to put any real variation in the content.

You’re allowed to not like things. But sprint being good or bad for Halo is purely opinion. 343’s opinion is that Sprint is good, and I agree as long as they do it right.

Also, I’m not expecting Halo 5 to have a massive population. But I would expect it to maintain a good 20/30k people at least in a competitive eSports scene.

> 2533274816487930;4:
> How do you know if bungie tryed to appeal to casuals for halo 3.

Because there were ranked playlists and social playlists.
343 is trying their heart out to cater to the competitive community with their new ranked play and equal starts but at the same time they’re not supporting Gamebattles/PGL and are trying to keep the competitive scene in-house with their HCS thing.
Those efforts are pointless because sprint still ruins everything. If you actually knew any good competitive Halo players than you would know they will simply not bother with H5.
If you go on forums with a large majority of competitive and actual competent halo players and post a sprint poll, the result will be 90%+ heavily against sprint.

As for the “do u really want a Halo 3 2.0”
Yes, I do. Halo 3 and 3 were the pinnacles of competitive Halo. In fact I still play Halo 3 on my xbox 360 and so do many of my friends.
If the MCC worked and had an actual functioning ranking system for H3 we would play that instead.
The step from Halo 2 to Halo 3 is an example of innovative changes while still keeping the classic Halo experience.
Halo 4 failed and Halo 5 will fail because it is trying too many radical changes at once.

> 2533274842918190;9:
> Sprint in Halo 4 was like a lot of the things 343 tried to bring to Halo 4. Good concept implemented poorly. Loadouts shouldn’t have had perks and should have been for Spartan Ops only. Dominion tried to be Invasion 2.0 but they forget to put in escalating phases. Spartan Ops was cool episodic content but they forgot to put any real variation in the content.
>
> You’re allowed to not like things. But sprint being good or bad for Halo is purely opinion. 343’s opinion is that Sprint is good, and I agree as long as they do it right.
>
> Also, I’m not expecting Halo 5 to have a massive population. But I would expect it to maintain a good 20/30k people at least in a competitive eSports scene.

I would love Dominion if it had the phases of Invasion. Great gametype regardless. And nice mention of the good concepts being implemented poorly, that’s pretty much what Halo 4 was based around. The first full game made by a company is always going to be an experiment. Look at Halo CE and 2. They are barely comparable in terms of gameplay mechanics and weapons, though that’s mostly do to the pistol and vehicle mechanics.

To say if halo 2 or even 3 were to be released today and hold the same numbers they did now is blasphemy. At the end of the day the whole industry is different. I’m not making excuses for halo 4s numbers cause I honestly couldn’t care less. There enough players for my to find a game im happy. Some of you guys argue player count like you guys make loyalty bonuses or retention commision. No one watching that number go up or down more than the ppl that make the game.

Any my chart you make to compare 343 or microsoft has already made. It’s just like that beta comparison picture. You guys honestly beleive going what to look at H3s beta number and reach’s weren’t the first thing they did. Lol get over yourselves. They are there to deliver a product it’s their job. Microsoft is on them about those numbers more than any consumer could be. Because those numbers don’t affect your pockets

but if you want to make a statement now is your chance MCC should be good by halo 5’s launch for everyone. (It’s good for me as of last patch) after the “new game” feel and the majority have beat the campaign we will see who hold the most players. That will speak volumes. More than any thread or poll.

[deleted]

Yep. Theyre failing to capture new players with these mechanics whilst also alienating most core halo fans with them.

Thats a receipt for 20,000 player population.

> 2533274805989038;10:
> > 2533274816487930;4:
> > How do you know if bungie tryed to appeal to casuals for halo 3.
>
>
> Because there were ranked playlists and social playlists.
> 343 is trying their heart out to cater to the competitive community with their new ranked play and equal starts but at the same time they’re not supporting Gamebattles/PGL and are trying to keep the competitive scene in-house with their HCS thing.
> Those efforts are pointless because sprint still ruins everything. If you actually knew any good competitive Halo players than you would know they will simply not bother with H5.
> If you go on forums with a large majority of competitive and actual competent halo players and post a sprint poll, the result will be 90%+ heavily against sprint.
>
> As for the “do u really want a Halo 3 2.0”
> Yes, I do. Halo 3 and 3 were the pinnacles of competitive Halo. In fact I still play Halo 3 on my xbox 360 and so do many of my friends.
> If the MCC worked and had an actual functioning ranking system for H3 we would play that instead.
> The step from Halo 2 to Halo 3 is an example of innovative changes while still keeping the classic Halo experience.
> Halo 4 failed and Halo 5 will fail because it is trying too many radical changes at once.

Lucky for you, Halo 2 and 3 were remastered.

> 2533274823755997;2:
> Another Sprint hate post I see? The reason I left Halo 4 was the lack of Rank/True Skill, and the reason why Halo 2 and 3 lasted so long was there wasn’t any real competition at that time, now with the throw away C.O.D games been released something like 2 a year Halo no matter with or without Sprint won’t see the days of old.

What?

No competition for h3? H3 came out in 07 against GTA4, COD4 and then MW2, rainbow six vegas, ghost recon advanced warfighter, geara of war, rock band, guitar hero, the orange box, oblivion. Not to mention all the madden, fifa and NBA 2k games that crushed h4.

I am a competitive player, and the reason I left Halo 4 has maybe 5% to do with sprint. yes i would prefer it to be gone, but realize in the modern age of gaming that isn’t going to happen. Plus with Halo 5, they have nerfed it quite a bit. It takes time to reach full speed during which you can get knocked out of sprint, plus your shields dont recharge. They are nerfing it even further by increasing base speed, and reducing sprint speed. These sprint complaints really need to stop, we are at a point now where it is not going to get changed any further so make peace with it.

Here are the reasons I left Halo 4:

Loadouts - which include
-Spawn weapons selectable by the player, not the gametype.
-Perks
-AAs

Being able to select all of those yourself destroyed the equal starts that was core to halo gameplay

-No power weapons on map
-Random weapon drops (seriously wtf?? talk about destroying balance…)
-No descope
-Massive flinch
-Massive recoil

Thats a big list of problems, ALL of which have been removed from Halo 5. You could argue that AA still exist, but they are all part of the same wheelhouse (movement) and everybody has access to all of them all the time, making it equal.

To claim that they are building Halo 5 based off the principles of Halo 4 is false. Is that an opinion? Yes, but its backed up by a lot of evidence (see above^)

> 2533274805989038;10:
> > 2533274816487930;4:
> > How do you know if bungie tryed to appeal to casuals for halo 3.
>
>
>
> Because there were ranked playlists and social playlists.
> 343 is trying their heart out to cater to the competitive community with their new ranked play and equal starts but at the same time they’re not supporting Gamebattles/PGL and are trying to keep the competitive scene in-house with their HCS thing.
> Those efforts are pointless because sprint still ruins everything. If you actually knew any good competitive Halo players than you would know they will simply not bother with H5.
> If you go on forums with a large majority of competitive and actual competent halo players and post a sprint poll, the result will be 90%+ heavily against sprint.
>
> As for the “do u really want a Halo 3 2.0”
> Yes, I do. Halo 3 and 3 were the pinnacles of competitive Halo. In fact I still play Halo 3 on my xbox 360 and so do many of my friends.
> If the MCC worked and had an actual functioning ranking system for H3 we would play that instead.
> The step from Halo 2 to Halo 3 is an example of innovative changes while still keeping the classic Halo experience.
> Halo 4 failed and Halo 5 will fail because it is trying too many radical changes at once.

There will certainly be ranked and unranked playlists in the game. The beta only had 3 playlists at peak and they were testing the rank system so of course it would only have ranked lists.

HCS was not “In house” it was run by the ESL and sponsored by 343/Microsoft et al. ESL also runs CS, Starcraft, DOTA, Hearthstone and LoL. All of which are non-microsoft and non-343 and also sponsored by the development houses as well as outside parties. just look at the shirts the players wear lol

There have been many good, competitive players that praised Halo 5 and said it was a return to competitive halo play provided there were some tweaks. Did you watch any twitch streams during the beta? Many of those tweaks have been made (see the blog post) INCLUDING a further nerf to sprint. Sprint is going to be slower and base speed higher, reducing the delta between the two and making it less of a factor.

In no way am i saying the game is perfect, and im also not saying that i favor sprint because i dont. But all the whining about sprint and claiming how “game breaking” it is, given the proposed implementation since the beta, is waaaaaaay overblown. 343 is turning it into a utility feature instead of a total game-changer.

90% you say. please show me where you got these numbers

> 2533274820925027;15:
> > 2533274805989038;10:
> > > 2533274816487930;4:
> > > How do you know if bungie tryed to appeal to casuals for halo 3.
> >
> >
> >
> > Because there were ranked playlists and social playlists.
> > 343 is trying their heart out to cater to the competitive community with their new ranked play and equal starts but at the same time they’re not supporting Gamebattles/PGL and are trying to keep the competitive scene in-house with their HCS thing.
> > Those efforts are pointless because sprint still ruins everything. If you actually knew any good competitive Halo players than you would know they will simply not bother with H5.
> > If you go on forums with a large majority of competitive and actual competent halo players and post a sprint poll, the result will be 90%+ heavily against sprint.
> >
> > As for the “do u really want a Halo 3 2.0”
> > Yes, I do. Halo 3 and 3 were the pinnacles of competitive Halo. In fact I still play Halo 3 on my xbox 360 and so do many of my friends.
> > If the MCC worked and had an actual functioning ranking system for H3 we would play that instead.
> > The step from Halo 2 to Halo 3 is an example of innovative changes while still keeping the classic Halo experience.
> > Halo 4 failed and Halo 5 will fail because it is trying too many radical changes at once.
>
>
> Lucky for you, Halo 2 and 3 were remastered.

Unlucky for me, both do not function.
Halo 3 is completely unplayable on the MCC and while Halo 2 has improved a bit the overall game is still broken and not worth my time.
I can find matches faster on my TS 50 in Halo 3 on Xbox 360.

> 2533274830733064;18:
> 90% you say. please show me where you got these numbers

Here is an example of a poll on Team Beyond. A community consisting almost entirely of competitive players.
http://gyazo.com/db674b5217cecbb050c4a0e310bf1a9b
As you can see, more than 90% of the votes are strongly against sprint.
The sample size is of course small but this poll would yield the same results in a hypothetical situation where almost all the voters are competitive and/or good players.