Look, I understand the need for “Return to the battlefield” in MATCHMAKING. Or in some custom games. But for the love of the forerunners. Why is 343 still killing Halo with it. Death boundries are not good, not fun, not needed and ruin Halo like gutter rails ruin bowling.
In Campaign the only thing stopping the player should be some easily passable invisible wall. Not a damn countdown timer. Bungie and 343 are treating it’s players like children who aren’t allowed out of the block, when we were already out of the block years before.
Other than matchmaking and custom games with options, death boundaries need to DIE.
Remember exploring Halo CE Or Halo 2 or Halo 3. Remember glitching out of maps in custom games. Well now it’s nearly if not totally impossible. Which is stupid, Halo Reach and Halo 4 have tons of exploring to be done. Halo Reach and Halo 4 would have been a little more popular if that was the case. And yes you’d be suprised how HUGE of a community “glitch” and “Exploring” has.
But death boundries are there for a good reason. For example, the near-impossible “Perfection” medal is extremely hard to nab. Sure, players get 15 kills without dying. A bit tough to grab right off the bat. But once you achieve that ‘Running Riot’, you need to head to one heckuva hiding/camping spot so can outlast the rest of the game. With the removal of the ‘invisible walls’, players could, as you said, roam freely. But this could also lead to some serious camping issues, like the Perfection medal. It would instantly become a whole lot easier. And nobody likes a camper, trying to get Perfection or not.
Now I’m NOT saying I completely disagree with you. I’ll admit, glitching out of the map, fun little hiding places, and just exploring in general is a blast. So maybe for the maps that are like islands or something. Like Forge Island, only with the cool structures, and just an enormous playground for dueling Spartans. Also, I can see it happening with the fabled “64 player+ multiplayer”. I’d be okay with that, huge amount of gamers in one map.
I strongly disagree Death Boundaries are their to keep players in the playable space, but also its their to avoid giving players unfair advantages. For example, if I were to Jet pack or launch myself out of the map with a sniper and I could see everyone on the map, but they couldn’t seem me, would that be fun? In regards to MP.
Also you got to take in consideration that balance should always come first when it comes to MP. Being able to get out of the map can be used to have the most unbalanced advantages.
Custom Games:
With Custom Games their should be an option to turn off Death Boundaries at will, but it should purely be in the hands of the map creator to decide to do that or not. Lets say I’m building a map and I’ve put a considerable amount of time into it, should players just be able to get out of the map because they don’t like challenges and want to cheat? No, it should purely be up to the map creator. To have Death Boundaries or not.
Campaign:
Absolutely, not! That’s more of a personal opinion on my part. If you want to explore un-finished parts of the game be my guest.
I’m sorry, but I can’t see any reason for 343 to allow you to break their game. The whole point of the playable space is to be played in. Why not explore the actual game?
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Oh how I love when people ignore what the op says and goes off about how much we need it in matchmaking.
WE GET IT. Are you guys really so selfish as to say it would bother you if someone got out of the map in a custom game with his friends? Really? That’s pathetic,
I can definitely tell which kids started with reach.
Death barriers need to at least be heavily cut back in even Matchmaking.
A play space should not have any level of artificiality to it. It needs to be natural and empowering, instead of artificial and limiting.
What I mean by this, is that if a player is able to do something, just let them do it. If they can get to a spot, let them stay.
It is highly discouraging to the creative and thinking player if they are told they can’t be somewhere. They got somewhere with the tools the game gave them, then the game wants to change it’s mind and say the player can’t be at a certain place? Bollocks.
It is in this regard that invisible walls and death barriers are artificial and limiting.
If developers want to limit a player, work that through map geometry or The Guardians. and not a cheesed ten second count down timer. If a player shouldn’t be atop a high wall, there could be some Guardian turrets nearby that shoot them down. The player can easily see and think, “Oh. Guardian turrets. I can’t go there.” The player has legitimate reason to believe they should not be up there, because the game clearly telegraphs a legitimate reason why they won’t be able to stay up there. Turrets will blast them.
If the real problem is just jet packs in general, though…
Let’s not try to put band -Yoink!- on festering wounds; no jet packs in H5.
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> What you just said literally applies to no one here. At least not fully. How ironic.
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> That’s a rather ignorant thing to say, don’t you think?
Actually it does.
And ignorant you say? I prefer the harsh truth.
> > > Oh how I love when people ignore what the op says and goes off about how much we need it in matchmaking.
> > > WE GET IT. Are you guys really so selfish as to say it would bother you if someone got out of the map in a custom game with his friends? Really? That’s pathetic,
> >
> > What you just said literally applies to no one here. At least not fully. How ironic.
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> >
> >
> >
> > > I can definitely tell which kids started with reach.
> >
> > That’s a rather ignorant thing to say, don’t you think?
>
> Actually it does.
> And ignorant you say? I prefer the harsh truth.
A ‘‘truth’’ that harsh is not going to get you far in these forums.
> <mark>Oh how I love when people ignore what the op says and goes off about how much we need it in matchmaking.</mark>
> WE GET IT. <mark>Are you guys really so selfish as to say it would bother you if someone got out of the map in a custom game with his friends? Really? That’s pathetic,</mark>
> <mark>I can definitely tell which kids started with reach.</mark>
How are people ignoring the OP? I’m currently seeing people on this thread developing their response to what the OP wanted, so how is that ignoring?
Yea, I’m sure it would bother the map creator. Seriously, I’m no Forger, but people who do put time in their map and would like people to play it the way it was designed. Not just break the map and get out of it. So, yea it should be up to the map creator to turn on Death Boundaries if they would like to.
Really? Are you some sort of Prophet, Wizard, or Psychic? How do you know what game people started with? I have been playing ever since Halo 2.
The closest thing you’ve got is ComicBeast1212, and he’s not even in full disagreement with OP. Everyone else explicitly talked about barriers in general.
> And ignorant you say? I prefer the harsh truth.
You must live a very biased and close-minded existence to accept such generalizations as truth. The world is NEVER that black and white. I would hope you had learned that by now.
All death/countdown barriers and most solid invisible barriers should be removable in Forge to make the maps bigger and to enable fun exploration and playing in “new” parts of the map. That’s a given! As for Campaign, there should be some sort of reward silver skull that deletes most barriers once you’ve beaten the game on Legendary or something.
Ah another thing Halo 3 got right. A fair example would be on Sandbox. The player could turn off the guardians by glitching the map. The dark parts were just as fun as the main map. Another great example would be on Standoff where many people became familiar with the game “Jenga”. The kill barriers on Halo were pretty much a player being shot by the guardians or a fall to the death. IMO Halo 3 had the right amount of “exploration without limitation” (lol sounds like an amendment) . In reach I would have killed to not have a kill barrier on Forge World where all the trees were at the top. In Halo 4 well I barely wanted to forge on its maps let alone play on them. Except exile…I like that one
other than MM and an option in MM why are people so against this?
And as someone said before you can really tell who started off in Reach just by how you act upon this. Halo CE/2/3 players all know the fun exploration had in campaign and custom games. People spent HOURS in halo 3 coop and forge trying to get out of maps and such. Even back before XBL people on HBO were exploring Halo CE maps.
When I was 10-11ish I was getting out of Damnation and Sidewinder, and on Halo PC I got further with help. In Halo 2 people would spend hours in custom matches glitching out of maps having a blast.
Death Boundraies are not good, in anyway outside of competitive games. And don’t say “BUT BUT BU MUH DEVS WORKED HARD WHY WHY WHY ARE YOU RUINING HARD WORK”. It’s not ruining hard work, it’s not disrepect, it’s having fun and finding something unique to do in a VIDEO GAME. 343 and Bungie have nothing to hide
You mean to tell me if people see untextured enviorments they will hate Halo 5? You think seeing some floating backround trees and glitchy enviorments will hurt Halo 5.
Hell that’s the point of it. It’s seeing the funny parts of a game. Not to hate on it but to enjoy it.
Best example I would say [IMO] is Delta Halo from Halo 2.
Playable Field=Pretty linear/mid sized map
Exploring Fild=Massive friggen huge map vast and huge.
Please tell me how that’s ruining the game, or hating on 343.
Holding players hands and killing them for having some fun is not going to help Halo get more players. You kill off nearly anyone who liked Halo 1,2,3 because you turn a game that was about fun into a game about having more rules.
> other than MM and an option in MM why are people so against this?
>
> And as someone said before you can really tell who started off in Reach just by how you act upon this. Halo CE/2/3 players all know the fun exploration had in campaign and custom games. People spent HOURS in halo 3 coop and forge trying to get out of maps and such. Even back before XBL people on HBO were exploring Halo CE maps.
>
> When I was 10-11ish I was getting out of Damnation and Sidewinder, and on Halo PC I got further with help. In Halo 2 people would spend hours in custom matches glitching out of maps having a blast.
>
> Death Boundraies are not good, in anyway outside of competitive games. And don’t say “BUT BUT BU MUH DEVS WORKED HARD WHY WHY WHY ARE YOU RUINING HARD WORK”. It’s not ruining hard work, it’s not disrepect, it’s having fun and finding something unique to do in a VIDEO GAME. 343 and Bungie have nothing to hide
>
> You mean to tell me if people see untextured enviorments they will hate Halo 5? You think seeing some floating backround trees and glitchy enviorments will hurt Halo 5.
>
> Hell that’s the point of it. It’s seeing the funny parts of a game. Not to hate on it but to enjoy it.
>
> Best example I would say [IMO] is Delta Halo from Halo 2.
>
> Playable Field=Pretty linear/mid sized map
>
> Exploring Fild=Massive friggen huge map vast and huge.
>
> Please tell me how that’s ruining the game, or hating on 343.
>
> Holding players hands and killing them for having some fun is not going to help Halo get more players. You kill off nearly anyone who liked Halo 1,2,3 because you turn a game that was about fun into a game about having more rules.
Going outside the map is not hating on the developer, but its more of annoying the developer, since you are doing something the developer does not want you to do.
I can understand that people like you want to get outside of maps easily and explore the outside area, but still, the devs probably dont like it when you ‘‘break’’ the maps they made.
> > other than MM and an option in MM why are people so against this?
> >
> > And as someone said before you can really tell who started off in Reach just by how you act upon this. Halo CE/2/3 players all know the fun exploration had in campaign and custom games. People spent HOURS in halo 3 coop and forge trying to get out of maps and such. Even back before XBL people on HBO were exploring Halo CE maps.
> >
> > When I was 10-11ish I was getting out of Damnation and Sidewinder, and on Halo PC I got further with help. In Halo 2 people would spend hours in custom matches glitching out of maps having a blast.
> >
> > Death Boundraies are not good, in anyway outside of competitive games. And don’t say “BUT BUT BU MUH DEVS WORKED HARD WHY WHY WHY ARE YOU RUINING HARD WORK”. It’s not ruining hard work, it’s not disrepect, it’s having fun and finding something unique to do in a VIDEO GAME. 343 and Bungie have nothing to hide
> >
> > You mean to tell me if people see untextured enviorments they will hate Halo 5? You think seeing some floating backround trees and glitchy enviorments will hurt Halo 5.
> >
> > Hell that’s the point of it. It’s seeing the funny parts of a game. Not to hate on it but to enjoy it.
> >
> > Best example I would say [IMO] is Delta Halo from Halo 2.
> >
> > Playable Field=Pretty linear/mid sized map
> >
> > Exploring Fild=Massive friggen huge map vast and huge.
> >
> > Please tell me how that’s ruining the game, or hating on 343.
> >
> > Holding players hands and killing them for having some fun is not going to help Halo get more players. You kill off nearly anyone who liked Halo 1,2,3 because you turn a game that was about fun into a game about having more rules.
>
> Going outside the map is not hating on the developer, but its more of annoying the developer, since you are doing something the developer does not want you to do.
> I can understand that people like you want to get outside of maps easily and explore the outside area, but still, the devs probably dont like it when you ‘‘break’’ the maps they made.
Then why do the devs put Easter Eggs outside the playable areas for players to find?
> > > other than MM and an option in MM why are people so against this?
> > >
> > > And as someone said before you can really tell who started off in Reach just by how you act upon this. Halo CE/2/3 players all know the fun exploration had in campaign and custom games. People spent HOURS in halo 3 coop and forge trying to get out of maps and such. Even back before XBL people on HBO were exploring Halo CE maps.
> > >
> > > When I was 10-11ish I was getting out of Damnation and Sidewinder, and on Halo PC I got further with help. In Halo 2 people would spend hours in custom matches glitching out of maps having a blast.
> > >
> > > Death Boundraies are not good, in anyway outside of competitive games. And don’t say “BUT BUT BU MUH DEVS WORKED HARD WHY WHY WHY ARE YOU RUINING HARD WORK”. It’s not ruining hard work, it’s not disrepect, it’s having fun and finding something unique to do in a VIDEO GAME. 343 and Bungie have nothing to hide
> > >
> > > You mean to tell me if people see untextured enviorments they will hate Halo 5? You think seeing some floating backround trees and glitchy enviorments will hurt Halo 5.
> > >
> > > Hell that’s the point of it. It’s seeing the funny parts of a game. Not to hate on it but to enjoy it.
> > >
> > > Best example I would say [IMO] is Delta Halo from Halo 2.
> > >
> > > Playable Field=Pretty linear/mid sized map
> > >
> > > Exploring Fild=Massive friggen huge map vast and huge.
> > >
> > > Please tell me how that’s ruining the game, or hating on 343.
> > >
> > > Holding players hands and killing them for having some fun is not going to help Halo get more players. You kill off nearly anyone who liked Halo 1,2,3 because you turn a game that was about fun into a game about having more rules.
> >
> > Going outside the map is not hating on the developer, but its more of annoying the developer, since you are doing something the developer does not want you to do.
> > I can understand that people like you want to get outside of maps easily and explore the outside area, but still, the devs probably dont like it when you ‘‘break’’ the maps they made.
>
> Then why do the devs put Easter Eggs outside the playable areas for players to find?
I can only think of one easter egg right now in Halo that is outside the playable area, and that being the antenna man in one of the multiplayer maps. But even he can be seen with a sniper rifle.
Those easter eggs that need proper modding and physically getting out of maps are most of the time misplaced, of they are not meant to be found, like the Black spartan in Halo reach.
> Going outside the map is not hating on the developer, but its more of annoying the developer, since you are doing something the developer does not want you to do. I can understand that people like you want to get outside of maps easily and explore the outside area, but still, the devs probably dont like it when you ‘‘break’’ the maps they made.
Can you think of any sensible reason why a developer would dislike you breaking the map in campaign or during a Forge session? As long as you messing around doesn’t impact the experience of other players in a negative way, there is no reason for them to care.
In a game where the path for the player is clearly marked, the player has to be intentionally attempting to get out of the level. The only reason a developer would want the player to stay on their path would be to not have them acceidentally wander off the path and break the immersion. However, beyond that, there is no practical reason for restricting the player to that path.
There is a lot of creativity, curiosity, and determination that goes into getting outside of the map boundaries. I think it’s admirable that players are ready to go through the effort of getting out of the map just out of pure curiosity even though there really isn’t much to see out there. If anything, breaking the boundaries to see more of the game shows deep appreciation for the game.
The boundaries of a level should primarily be implemented into the structure of the level. If absolutely necessary, an invisible wall can be put somewhere. It’s still the developer’s job to keep the player on the path. But if a player happens to find their way to the invisible wall and if they manage to find a way through it, after all that work they don’t deserve to be killed by a kill boundary.
When it comes to soft kill boundaries, I think they are just lazy design. If there is a place where the player can get without any special tricks, I expect it to be part of the design. There is nothing more frustrating than running into a ten second countdown. I can accept the developer restricting me somewhat, but places where I shouldn’t be able to go should be clearly marked as such.