I truly do hope that the UNSC Marines in Halo 5 will actually be more competent and useful. In Halo 4 they seemed a little bit stupid at times and their actions were quite ludicrous in some instances. They didn’t seem to be able to grasp the whole concept of cover and had a very annoying tendency to charge headlong into a whole plethora of enemies that kill them in about 2 seconds. In Spartan Ops,I always came across squads of Marines, and no matter what I did to prevent their deaths, they always figured out ways to get killed. The SPARTAN IVs were pretty good, the AI for them was decent and that’s the way the Marines should have been, but no, instead we get a bunch of semi-useful fodder that can’t seem to aim properly. I mean for crying out loud, when you betrayed them, they hit you with dead on accuracy and could kill you in a few seconds. They’re supposed to be well trained soldiers, not some moronic kids with guns.
Hopefully on the One they can add more “intelligence” to the AI, not sure how it really works though.
Well I think that the whole purpose of them being so incompetent is to add more difficulty and to make you not rely on the AI.
I mean, if say someone is just goofing around, if there was a smart AI, when the person starts to focus on the mission, pretty much the entire area would be finished for him. While if there were dumb AI, he would be down-right killed. But I will have to agree that sometimes they are a bit too annoying.
> Well I think that the whole purpose of them being so incompetent is to add more difficulty and to make you not rely on the AI.
But that’s a very cheap way of adding challenge. Essentially it lets the dev ignore the effect of friendly AI’s on any given encounter so they can continue building the game at a lower level than would be possible if they were simply given more responsive behaviors and full damage capabilities. What it amounts to is a game that, while convenient to make, is less interesting and even technically inferior to those other franchises which don’t hobble the AI to get around design challenges (ex. Section 8, Rainbow Six.)
Improved AI is a must for Halo 5 and if the question becomes “well they’re just too good, the player isn’t as involved” simply work the problem from the other end. Make combat deeper and more challenging (so that even a more capable AI still needs player help) to support what is simply better gameplay.
343i needs to take a look at Halo 3
the Allied AI was the best in that game.
I’ve had moments where marines have saved my behind on LEGENDARY difficulty
but in Reach, they’re a waste of programming past NORMAL difficulty
Halo 4 is no different, not only is there a severe lack of marines in the first place, but their AI was barely changed in a noticeable way.
Like reach, Marines often see dead enemies as valid targets, which leads to them shooting at already-dead enemies for long expanses of time.
anyway, Marines NEED to be improved, they are supposed to provide Assistance, not simply exist.
what’s the point in them being there is they die in 3 seconds?
> 343i needs to take a look at Halo 3
>
> the Allied AI was the best in that game.
> I’ve had moments where marines have saved my behind on LEGENDARY difficulty
>
> but in Reach, they’re a waste of programming past NORMAL difficulty
> Halo 4 is no different, not only is there a severe lack of marines in the first place, but their AI was barely changed in a noticeable way.
>
>
> Like reach, Marines often see dead enemies as valid targets, which leads to them shooting at already-dead enemies for long expanses of time.
>
>
>
>
> anyway, Marines NEED to be improved, they are supposed to provide Assistance, not simply exist.
> what’s the point in them being there is they die in 3 seconds?
Well, Reach’s marines weren’t supposed to be good. I’d have imagined they were bad to make the covenant look that much better. Sort of how in FuD they took short actors and took a tall actor to depict 117’s size.
> Well, Reach’s marines weren’t supposed to be good. I’d have imagined they were bad to make the covenant look that much better. Sort of how in FuD they took short actors and took a tall actor to depict 117’s size.
making the AI work poorly was a bad way of depicting this, on Reach, the UNSC was outnumbered and outgunned, not out-thought
Reach depicted Troopers as complete failures.
for no reason should a Trained soldier use a shotgun like a Sniper rifle, for no reason should a trained soldier throw Live grenades at walls, only to blow themselves up. For no reason should a Trooper fire only a short burst of his AR when an enemy is literally standing right in front of him
there are much better ways of making the covenant look better.
for example, simply outnumbering the Troopers could’ve worked very nicely
or the Troopers could’ve simply had less health, so it gives the impression that the Covenant is better, rather that the UNSC just simply failing at its sole purpose: Combat.
> > Well, Reach’s marines weren’t supposed to be good. I’d have imagined they were bad to make the covenant look that much better. Sort of how in FuD they took short actors and took a tall actor to depict 117’s size.
>
> making the AI work poorly was a bad way of depicting this, on Reach, the UNSC was outnumbered and outgunned, not out-thought
>
> Reach depicted Troopers as complete failures.
>
> for no reason should a Trained soldier use a shotgun like a Sniper rifle, for no reason should a trained soldier throw Live grenades at walls, only to blow themselves up. For no reason should a Trooper fire only a short burst of his AR when an enemy is literally standing right in front of him
>
>
> there are much better ways of making the covenant look better.
> for example, simply outnumbering the Troopers could’ve worked very nicely
> or the Troopers could’ve simply had less health, so it gives the impression that the Covenant is better, rather that the UNSC just simply failing at its sole purpose: Combat.
I’m going to tell you guys this and it will blow your mind when you see it. Its not the AI is the weapons they have. For some reason when given UNSC standard weapons that AI barley use them but when they are given foreign weapons they become masters. <mark>NOT LYING!</mark> Give a marine an AR he fires like he is scared of its noise…give him s Storm Rifle and he will kill Knights.
IDKY but this is in every Halo FPS title, even CE. Remember when the marines took Covenant weapons and they never stopped being useful.
Every change i get i change the weapons for my Marines. It changes the battle drastically. Two more points.
Reach and Halo CE had the most useful AI. There are ways to test this.
1 The Silent Cartographer, right at the beach battle the battle on Normal Heroic and Legendary can go one of two ways. Human or Covenant Victory. The issue is that the harder the difficulty the less marines and more Covenant. On either difficulty the tide turn is if one uses their grenades well.
- Truth and Reconciliation keep your marines alive until you get under the ship. Let the Covenant cannons kill them and you will get reinforcements. (you must act fast) Take out the cannons before the reinforcements arrive, grab the camo, rush into the next area (recommended that you take out as many Covies as you can before going forward. ) Run past the first turret and wait for Foe Hammer to drop more troops. For some reason she will think the guys you left behind are dead and will drop another squad.
If done right you should have quite a few marines with you. The Covenant who try to stop you from boarding will be no more than sheep to the slaughter.
Doing battles like these in 2 and three are harder to get many allied troops but you will see that without Covenant guns the marines and Allied Covenant forces will lose. ( IDKY again but give the Covenant human weapons they will operate batter.)
- On Tip of the Spear when you take out the second cannon by using the warthog a pelican will drop of marines to clear the area. All you have to do is clear out the vehicles for a fair fight and like in Halo CE the battle can only go two ways.
Halo 3 ODST has the easier way to do this. On Oni Alpha site don’t blow the bridge.
- Same mission, just let the marines fight off the brutes when they attack the base.
Lesson. Halo CE marines are badass and can stand well in a fight. 2,3 and ODST are just cannon fodder most of the time Reach they got better but that is comparing to 2,3 ODST. Halo 4 they can fight well if given Covenant weapons but they are worst than 2,3 and ODST. Really WTF happened. Just play Spartans Ops and go to the mission where you save Fireteam Mountain. let them try to take out the shield generator on easy and they will still find a way to fail.
It’s been a while since this has been brought up. Good times, good times.
> I truly do hope that the UNSC Marines in Halo 5 will actually be more competent and useful. In Halo 4 they seemed a little bit stupid at times and their actions were quite ludicrous in some instances. They didn’t seem to be able to grasp the whole concept of cover and had a very annoying tendency to charge headlong into a whole plethora of enemies that kill them in about 2 seconds. In Spartan Ops,I always came across squads of Marines, and no matter what I did to prevent their deaths, they always figured out ways to get killed.
>
> The SPARTAN IVs were pretty good, the AI for them was decent and that’s the way the Marines should have been, but no, instead we get a bunch of semi-useful fodder that can’t seem to aim properly.
>
> I mean for crying out loud, when you betrayed them, they hit you with dead on accuracy and could kill you in a few seconds.
>
> They’re supposed to be well trained soldiers, not some moronic kids with guns.
Yes, the marines are still terrible. Though their damage output has been upped thankfully.
Or rather, they were more durable, so it seemed like they were better. They are equally terrible.
And they actually use cover in that instance.
I wish their dialogue was more interesting. It’s very monotonous right now.
> Well I think that the whole purpose of them being so incompetent is to add more difficulty and to make you not rely on the AI.
>
> I mean, if say someone is just goofing around, if there was a smart AI, when the person starts to focus on the mission, pretty much the entire area would be finished for him. While if there were dumb AI, he would be down-right killed. But I will have to agree that sometimes they are a bit too annoying.
That’s false difficulty as Duncan pointed out. Very few players relied on the AI in past games (unless they actually took the time to save a bunch of them). Anyways, by making Noble Team invincible, it could be said that encouraged relying on the allied AI, as some Reach missions are just impossible on certain difficulties (i.e. Zero Shot) without relying on them.
There are many ways to keep AI in check. The player should be able to choose if he wants to manage them, rather than being forced to.
> Well, Reach’s marines weren’t supposed to be good. I’d have imagined they were bad to make the covenant look that much better. Sort of how in FuD they took short actors and took a tall actor to depict 117’s size.
I doubt there was a canonical reasoning behind the decision to make Reach marines behave poorly. In fact, that’s a pretty far-fetched defense.
I mean for Christ’s sake, Bungie had them taking an eternity to turn around when you wanted to swap a gun with them, in addition to getting inside your vehicle.
It was deliberate sabotage, to make the game harder and nothing else.
343i actually did something about them when they released the Installation 04 map for Reach Firefight and when they made Halo 4. So at least 343i are acknowledging these issues. They even gave marines melee damage, which they’ve been lacking for a long time.
> But that’s a very cheap way of adding challenge. Essentially it lets the dev ignore the effect of friendly AI’s on any given encounter so they can continue building the game at a lower level than would be possible if they were simply given more responsive behaviors and full damage capabilities. What it amounts to is a game that, while convenient to make, is less interesting and even technically inferior to those other franchises which don’t hobble the AI to get around design challenges (ex. Section 8, Rainbow Six.)
>
> Improved AI is a must for Halo 5 and if the question becomes <mark>“well they’re just too good, the player isn’t as involved”</mark> simply work the problem from the other end. Make combat deeper and more challenging (so that even a more capable AI still needs player help) to support what is simply better gameplay.
Agreed.
Well, that is a terrible excuse. There are some players who actually try to limit what their allies can do, try to keep them in check, try to get things done by themselves. I like to call this ‘customization’ and Halo has an incredible history of it. Notably, Halo 1’s megabattles.
In the trilogy, there was plenty of room for controlled encounters. Nowadays, you’re lucky to even get 5 marines doing whatever you want them to.
> Halo 4 is no different, <mark>not only is there a severe lack of marines in the first place</mark>, but their AI was barely changed in a noticeable way.
>
> Like reach, Marines often see dead enemies as valid targets, which leads to them shooting at already-dead enemies for long expanses of time.
The Campaign felt so empty to me, this was one of the reasons why.
Yeah I remember that. Hopefully they will not forget to alleviate it in Halo 5.
> IDKY but this is in every Halo FPS title, even CE. Remember when the marines took Covenant weapons and they never stopped being useful.
Actually, those marines imprisoned with Keyes have overall better AI in addition to the plasma stun ability. This can easily be observed using Halo PC modding programs.
> Every change i get i change the weapons for my Marines. It changes the battle drastically. Two more points.
You have me there.
But Reach was often an exception to that. I once gave 6 marines rocket launchers and they blew themselves up on several occasions. I’ve also given them needlers and plasma rifles and it took them quite a while to kill an Elite.
> > IDKY but this is in every Halo FPS title, even CE. Remember when the marines took Covenant weapons and they never stopped being useful.
>
> Actually, those marines imprisoned with Keyes have overall better AI in addition to the plasma stun ability. This can easily be observed using Halo PC modding programs.
>
>
>
> > Every change i get i change the weapons for my Marines. It changes the battle drastically. Two more points.
>
> You have me there.
>
> But Reach was often an exception to that. <mark>I once gave 6 marines rocket launchers and they blew themselves up on several occasions.</mark> I’ve also given them needlers and plasma rifles and it took them quite a while to kill an Elite.
Classic Halo Marine AI XD ever since 2010!
Things I forgot to mention include the weapon swapping. Halo Reach’s Army Troopers had an extremely annoying tendency to blow themselves up with grenades at the worst of times. Halo 2’s Marines were amazing. They could, with the right amount of support, last for a very long time. They could easily take on most Covenant troops bar Hunters and Brutes, and their comically annoying weapon mishaps were few and far between.
In Halo 3, I found though not as good as Halo 2’s, the Marines were nonetheless useful allies, and could help you out in the long run. Halo 3 ODST, even though the Marines are exactly the same as in Halo 3, their longevity was sharply decreased because their health seems to have almost been cut in half. I was sitting behind some cover with about 8 Marines and we were firing at a few Brute Minors. The Brutes barely ever landed any hit on us, yet I look and I’m down to 2 Marines.
343 better make the Marines in Halo 5 act like proper soldiers. It gets a bit annoying seeing “professional soldiers” blowing themselves up or charging an enemy like a bunch of mindless zealots.
> > IDKY but this is in every Halo FPS title, even CE. Remember when the marines took Covenant weapons and they never stopped being useful.
>
> <mark>Actually, those marines imprisoned with Keyes have overall better AI in addition to the plasma stun ability. This can easily be observed using Halo PC modding programs.</mark>
>
>
>
> > Every change i get i change the weapons for my Marines. It changes the battle drastically. Two more points.
>
> You have me there.
>
> But Reach was often an exception to that.I once gave 6 marines rocket launchers and they blew themselves up on several occasions. I’ve also given them needlers and plasma rifles and it took them quite a while to kill an Elite.
Funny part is…i forgot about those guys. I was talking about the Marines on Assault on the Control Room. Fireteam Zulu.
Something tells me that John is going to be facing off against those Marines and Spartans in the next game…
one thing i want in future halo titles in the sense the humanity is suppose to take the mantle like the librarian wanted why not make the story to allow mabey better marine armor and mabey a energy based human assault rifle the covanet has one the promithans and fourunners have them why not humans make them more advanced more epic space based battles or at least cutscenes
> one thing i want in future halo titles in the sense the humanity is suppose to take the mantle like the librarian wanted why not make the story to allow mabey better marine armor and mabey a energy based human assault rifle the covanet has one the promithans and fourunners have them why not humans make them more advanced more epic space based battles or at least cutscenes
The UNSC doesn’t have to have DEW rifles, but advance looking weapons that don’t fire modern ammunition. If the muzzle velocity is at least 4 or 5x greater then modern rifles and 3 or 4x greater effective range then that would put the UNSC several magnitudes above modern militaries. Were every to most infantry base weapons would be consider Anti-Material to us then we would know the UNSC did good with their weapons. And better looking weapons, halo has some of the worst looking weapons for a 26 century humanity.
Better armor for Marines, god yes. They when from looking somewhat remotely advance on Reach to pathetic 20 century looking BDU in H4. Kevlar, really.
Where is the Exoskeleton that United states has been trying to develop for years, where is the heavy armor plating that can tank 1 or 2 hits instead of no hits, where is the cool looking gadgets or attachments that makes them look advance looking. The only thing I really like about the new BDU’s is the helmet, even then I think they could have done more to it. It would be cool if the helmet could deploy a visor down to seal it, going from an open visor helmet to an air tight close visor.
343i did a poor job on the Marines and many other aspects of H4.
The only real time were the AI was useful was when you gave then a rock launcher and get them inside the passenger seat of a warthog and a gunner, they turn into aim bots. Other then that, they are pretty pathetic. The IV’s look like the are crutching all the time, the Marines have no diversity and are as stupid as ever, that’s until they get into the gunner/passenger seat.
Hopefully H5 will change how the Marines look like and make them look more badass, similar to how every sequel of halo has changed the Marines image.
I super wouldn’t mind having better AI for the Marines. I can’t count how many times a Marine victory shooting has killed me with a Binary Rifle I gave them.
I’d like to see varying levels of AI depending on the unit, too.
Marines: Okay AI (I’m trying not to say “bad AI”), and can hold their own against Grunts and Jackals but have a tougher time with Elites unless grouped up. This unit will victory shoot. Because.
ODSTs: Decent AI, and can hold their own against all types of Covenant forces, but are far from one-man armies. No victory shooting
Spartans: Good AI, tough as nails, can hold their own, and don’t victory shoot. They can also go into CQC against Elites / Brutes / whatever the threat is.
^
This. Seems well balanced. In Halo 5, having smarter AI means when those said AI come into play, simply add more enemies to compensate. Done deal.