Halo 5 Load-Out System: Full Worked System

This is a copy of a Thread I made on 343i.org that got popular so I thought I would put it here, I Copy pasted it into another topic but I thought It felt out of place, so I have removed it and started its own topic. It revamps the whole system and effectively creates a Diverse system that has a lot of choices, but remains balanced, which enables players to fill a lot of different roles on a team.

Primary Weapon Choices:

UNSC Precision:
Battle Rifle: Shield Break 3 Bursts, Health 3 Bursts, 2x Zoom. 36 mag (12 bursts)
DMR: Shield Break 4 Shots, Health 3 Shots, 3x Zoom 15 mag

UNSC Automatic:

Assault Rifle: Shield Break 12 Shots, Health 6 Shots, No Zoom. 32 Mag.
ODST Silenced SMG: Shield Break 18 Shots, Health 10 Shots, 2x Zoom. 48 Mag.

Covenant Precision (Arbiter’s Faction):

Covenant Carbine: Shield Break 6 Shots, Health 4 Shots, 2x Zoom. 18 Mag

Covenant Automatic Weapons:

Plasma Rifle: Shield Break 8 Shots, Health 10 Shots.
Plasma Repeater: Shield Break 14 Shots, Health 10 Shots. (No overheat, venting system, high fire rate)

Storm Precision Weapons (Jul M’daama’s faction):

Needle Rifle: Shield Break 7 Shots, Health 3 Shots (Super Combine), 2x Zoom. 21 Mag.

Storm Automatic Weapons:

Storm Rifle: Shield Break 8 Shots, Health 10 Shots. (Higher Fire-rate than Plasma Rifle, Overheats faster)

Brute Militia Precision Weapon:

Thorn Rifle: Shield Break 4 Shots, Health 3 Shots, 3.5x Zoom, High Bloom. 15 Mag.

Brute Militia Automatic Weapon:

Spiker: Shield Break 14 Shots, Health 12 Shots, Bonus Melee damage large Magazine (52)

Forerunner Precision Weapons:

Light Rifle: (Un-zoomed) Shield Break 4 Bursts, Health 3 Shots, 36 Magazine
(Zoomed) Shield Break 3 Shots, Health 2 Shots, 3x Zoom, 12 Shots a Magazine

Promethean Automatic Weapon:

Suppressor: Shield Break 13 Shots, Health 13 Shots, 48 magazine

Armour Abilities

Now these are centered around more balanced game-play and not player benefits.

Player Self Aid:

Active Camo: Note (These ideas are from another topic and are NOT my original ideas but i liked them a lot so i feel the need to spread these new Active Camo Abilities) Active Camo in its current form is an op camo campers dream. these changes take their dream and turn it against them. The new Active Camo works better the FASTER you move, causing the players position to always be revealed but they will be invisible, So now it is better for crossing open fields where there is little cover opening new strategies instead of improving old camping methods. now that you will always be on radar, there is no need for the radar Jammer, but we will come back to that. While active, Promethean vision will not work on you while you are sprinting.

Evade:
Now that all players have ready to use sprint, evade is limited to one use per cool-down but otherwise is the same as Halo: Reach’s, this replaces Thruster Pack

Jump Pack:
This replaces the currently OP Jet-Pack this is a single use upwards thrust that launches a player into the air by about 10-12 feet in a slow arch movement, similar to the brute jump packs in Halo 3.

Promethean Vision:
Same effects as Halo 4. people are differently affected while they have active Radar Jammer or Active Camo. Drop shields and Re-gen Fields are highlighted in blue and green respectively. Players who are not moving will be fully highlighted red, not just red outlines.

Support Self Aid:

Armour Lock:
By removing the ability to stun those who melee an armour locked player and the EMP effect on players (but will still affect vehicles) this armour ability becomes not overpowered and cannot he abused the way it was in reach. now it will be good for anti-vehicle and explosion surviving, the way Bungie meant it to be used.

Hard light shield:
Provides an alternative to armour lock that gives the user more mobility at the cost of less protection, it will work as it currently does

Grenade Resistance:
10 seconds (Interrupt-able) of lessened grenade damage (players will still killed one hit with full shields when stuck) offers yet another alternative to armour lock that allows full mobility but only reduced damage from grenades and not all forms of damage (AA version of explosives support package)

Stamina:
While active, provides the user with faster reloads and indefinite sprint, lasts ten seconds. (Mix of the mobility and dexterity packages)

Support Team Aid:

Drop Shield:
(Assume a return of the med-packs and health system) Creates a bubble shield (stronger than reaches, weaker than Halo 3’s) that while within it your will automatically regain health But not shields, but they will start to recharge normally.

Regeneration Field:
The Opposite of Drop Shield. This AA will automatically recharge your teams shields but not their health their is also no bubble effect or vision obscuring

Radar Jamming:
Due to the new removal of radar jamming on Active Camouflage, it can be made into an AA that Does this: Creates false enemy and teammate indicators on enemy motion sensors that are within range. prevents the player being seen on Promethean vision while walking or sprinting.

EMP drop mine:
Large EMP AoE detonation that stuns vehicles and drains shields but emits green light and beeps loudly, can be triggered by shooting or pressing AA button again, long recharge time this is a more balanced EMP system than everyone gets PPs, also only two can be placed on map at any time of ALL players on a team.

Secondary Weapons:

ODST silenced Pistol: Shield Break 5 Shots, Health 3 Shots, 2x Zoom
Halo 4 Magnum: Shield Break 4 Shots, Health 3 Shots, 2x Zoom
Halo 3 Magnum: Shield Break 3 Shots, Health 2 Shots, No Zoom, Slowest fire-rate of secondary’s
Second Primary: Player may substitute their armour ability to spawn with a second primary weapon of the same faction as their primary

All player have default frags, not changeable.

Packages are removed entirely, Way-points to power weapons are removed, except when within 5 feet of the weapon, Flinch is removed and replaced with the zoom out when shot.

these are my revised load-out system to balance the game and promote team work, as protectors and and aiding teammates with the support armour abilities will earn you bonus credits used to buy SOME armour pieces, some are unlocked via set requirements e.g 15 perfections. Credits DO NOT act as EXP and the ranking system is similar to Halo 2 crossed with Halo 3’s

I think your Loadout system is too complicated to easily balance. A popular idea from me and a few others about the future of Loadouts has spread like a wildfire around Waypoint.

I’ll detail it here:

Primary Weapons:

  • Assault Rifle
  • Plasma Repeater
  • Battle Rifle
  • Covenant Carbine
    Secondary Weapons:
  • Magnum
  • “Needle Pistol”
  • SMG
  • Plasma Rifle

Due to the fact that a simpler system is easier to balance than a complex one, the Reduced Loadout System restricts Loadouts to only Primary and Secondary Weapons, and only offers four of each. With a total of 16 different combinations that the player can have, gameplay is much more predictable, and the randomness is reduced.

Also, you’ll notice that there are two different niches for each category: Primary Mid Range (BR + CC), Primary Close Range (AR + SR), Secondary Mid Range (M + NP), and Secondary Close Range (SMG + LR). These four different niches balance each weapon in gameplay based on each weapon’s specific niche.

For example, the Battle Rifle will beat the Assault Rifle at mid range, but the Assault Rifle will beat the Battle Rifle at close range. However, despite the fact that the weapons will beat each weapon within their niches, you aren’t out of options if your caught outside of your niche. The Assault Rifle can potentially beat the BR at mid range through short controlled bursts, and the BR can beat the AR at close range with the “2 shots + melee” system.

In order to embrace the philosophy of equal starts, all Loadout options are unlocked from the start. No person will have the ability to play better than another person just because they’ve ranked up more.

Lot of info there… I can’t fault it, but it’s difficult to say what fits best without actually playing, especially with the new weapons.

My ideal loadout choices are: primary/sidearm/grenade/AA. No perks, no PO, and assume the guns are balanced, the grenades balanced a appropriately stocked, and AA’s are significantly pared down in both number, function, and duration from Halo 4’s bloat.

And like AndyCU5 said, unlocked from start. I do believe you can have multiple starting choices and still have starting parity. Halo 4’s spartan points was just dumb… anyone serious about the game unlocked all the options in such short order, what was the point to begin with?

> I think your Loadout system is too complicated to easily balance. A popular idea from me and a few others about the future of Loadouts has spread like a wildfire around Waypoint.
>
> I’ll detail it here:
>
> <mark>Primary Weapons:</mark>
> <mark>- Assault Rifle</mark>
> <mark>- Plasma Repeater</mark>
> <mark>- Battle Rifle</mark>
> <mark>- Covenant Carbine</mark>
> <mark>Secondary Weapons:</mark>
> <mark>- Magnum</mark>
> <mark>- “Needle Pistol”</mark>
> <mark>- SMG</mark>
> <mark>- Plasma Rifle</mark>
>
> Due to the fact that a simpler system is easier to balance than a complex one, the Reduced Loadout System restricts Loadouts to only Primary and Secondary Weapons, and only offers four of each. With a total of 16 different combinations that the player can have, gameplay is much more predictable, and the randomness is reduced.
>
> Also, you’ll notice that there are two different niches for each category: Primary Mid Range (BR + CC), Primary Close Range (AR + SR), Secondary Mid Range (M + NP), and Secondary Close Range (SMG + LR). These four different niches balance each weapon in gameplay based on each weapon’s specific niche.
>
> For example, the Battle Rifle will beat the Assault Rifle at mid range, but the Assault Rifle will beat the Battle Rifle at close range. However, despite the fact that the weapons will beat each weapon within their niches, you aren’t out of options if your caught outside of your niche. The Assault Rifle can potentially beat the BR at mid range through short controlled bursts, and the BR can beat the AR at close range with the “2 shots + melee” system.
>
> In order to embrace the philosophy of equal starts, all Loadout options are unlocked from the start. No person will have the ability to play better than another person just because they’ve ranked up more.

Without having to read much of the Poll or your text: I don’t want the Plasma Rifle (and SMG) to become a loadout weapon. It really do have it’s own niche and placing the weapon in a loadout is going to destroy that. I rather have it reverted back to the Halo 1 version of it, and place it on the map.

I rather have:

Primary weapons:
BR, AR, Carbine, Plasma Repeater

Seccondary Weapons:
Magnum, Needle Pistol, and Promethean Pistol.

I notice that your mostly all mentioning the weapons, no-one is talking about the AAs, and to be honest, they were my major point when I created this, most of the listed weapons are already in game in at least 1 halo game,

The AAs are far more what I centralized on when I created this, so anyone got thoughts on those. the reason I added so many in various functions to to make up for the removal of Perks

Very interested in a diverse weapon Halo game. However, after Halo 4 I am very weary. Stuff got pushed into load-outs that had no business being there (Plasma Grenades, Bolt Shot, Plasma Pistol, etc.).

Br and Pistol
Ar and pistol

The wonderful universal settings of halo 2 and halo 3

> > I think your Loadout system is too complicated to easily balance. A popular idea from me and a few others about the future of Loadouts has spread like a wildfire around Waypoint.
> >
> > I’ll detail it here:
> >
> > <mark>Primary Weapons:</mark>
> > <mark>- Assault Rifle</mark>
> > <mark>- Plasma Repeater</mark>
> > <mark>- Battle Rifle</mark>
> > <mark>- Covenant Carbine</mark>
> > <mark>Secondary Weapons:</mark>
> > <mark>- Magnum</mark>
> > <mark>- “Needle Pistol”</mark>
> > <mark>- SMG</mark>
> > <mark>- Plasma Rifle</mark>
> >
> > Due to the fact that a simpler system is easier to balance than a complex one, the Reduced Loadout System restricts Loadouts to only Primary and Secondary Weapons, and only offers four of each. With a total of 16 different combinations that the player can have, gameplay is much more predictable, and the randomness is reduced.
> >
> > Also, you’ll notice that there are two different niches for each category: Primary Mid Range (BR + CC), Primary Close Range (AR + SR), Secondary Mid Range (M + NP), and Secondary Close Range (SMG + LR). These four different niches balance each weapon in gameplay based on each weapon’s specific niche.
> >
> > For example, the Battle Rifle will beat the Assault Rifle at mid range, but the Assault Rifle will beat the Battle Rifle at close range. However, despite the fact that the weapons will beat each weapon within their niches, you aren’t out of options if your caught outside of your niche. The Assault Rifle can potentially beat the BR at mid range through short controlled bursts, and the BR can beat the AR at close range with the “2 shots + melee” system.
> >
> > In order to embrace the philosophy of equal starts, all Loadout options are unlocked from the start. No person will have the ability to play better than another person just because they’ve ranked up more.
>
> Without having to read much of the Poll or your text: <mark>I don’t want the Plasma Rifle (and SMG) to become a loadout weapon. It really does have it’s own niche and placing the weapon in a loadout is going to destroy that.</mark> I rather have it reverted back to the Halo 1 version of it, and place it on the map.
>
> I rather have:
>
> Primary weapons:
> BR, AR, Carbine, Plasma Repeater
>
> Seccondary Weapons:
> Magnum, Needle Pistol, and Promethean Pistol.

That’s not entirely true.

Ever since Halo 2, the Plasma Rifle has been weakened to compensate for dual-wielding. Despite the greatness that this weapon had in Halo CE, there is a weapon called the “Storm Rifle” that already fits the same niche as Halo CE’s Plasma Rifle.

If you want your CE Plasma Rifle back, enjoy the Storm Rifle. We can give that weapon the stun-effect and increased accuracy and headshot multiplier that CE’s Plasma Rifle and then call it a day. Having both the CE Plasma Rifle and the Storm Rifle in the same game would just lead to redundancy when the recent incarnations of the Plasma Rifle have had an entirely different niche.

Also, the sole purpose of the “Reduced Loadout System” is to ensure that the weapons themselves aren’t altered in order to be balanced. The SMG and Plasma Rifle have been weaker as stand-alone weapons since Halo 2, why don’t we make them secondary weapons?

> Very interested in a diverse weapon Halo game. However, after Halo 4 I am very weary. Stuff got pushed into load-outs that had no business being there (Plasma Grenades, Bolt Shot, Plasma Pistol, etc.).

Well you saw my system, Not one of those are there

When it comes to the Weapon selection I share the same suggestion like Andycu5 has already stated.

I would like to add that loadouts should only contain UNSC and Covenant weaponry. Forerunner weapons should be all superior to their ‘counterparts’, primarily to do the highly advanced Forerunner technology some justice, aside their aesthetics and I think it is easier to make them unique and special when they become their own weapon class instead of trying to fit them into already existing classes.

Also, the DMR (and long range weapons in general) should not be included into loadouts because it has a negative impact on the game flow as a loadout weapon because of its effective range: long range.
Because it is more of a sniper rifle it discourage map movement and leads to static long range battles (i.e. gameplay on Ragnarok).
I think to prevent and solve the current issues that the DMR (long range weapons) is causing as a loadout weapon you could simply place it on the map, perhaps even with a slight buff and to balance it for close range you could smaller the size of its reticle.

> I notice that your mostly all mentioning the weapons, no-one is talking about the AAs, and to be honest, they were my major point when I created this, most of the listed weapons are already in game in at least 1 halo game,
>
> The AAs are far more what I centralized on when I created this, so anyone got thoughts on those. the reason I added so many in various functions to to make up for the removal of Perks

Now to the question: can Armor Abilities fit in loadouts as well?

I would say definitely not in their current state.
However, I think they can perhaps fit.
Aside some individual major and minor tweaking, each Armor Ability should have specific limited uses per life to require some tactical thinking again before using an AA and to prevent thoughtless and constant AA-spam. Besides, the player would value the use of his/her AA much more.
I created a thread around a month ago about the topic if AAs can fit into Custom Loadouts. So in case you are interested on more detailed info about my idea I copied and hide my OP into a spoiler.

I guess many agree that in case Armor Abilities and Custom Loadouts return they have to guarantee balance and equality and should not affect the gamplay in a negative way.

I know, the easiest way would probably be to simply turn AAs into equipment but then you would change the concept of AAs as well in my opinion.
Besides, though I like the competitive aspect of equipment, it has lacked relatively often in its usefulness in my eyes because all depended too much or too often on the “right moment”.

Nonetheless, you should definitely not be able to spam AAs, what I think was a main reason why they have become so unattractive for many people.
There has to be some tactical thought behind the use of Armor Abilities.

Aside some individual tweaking, each Armor Ability should have a specific and limited amount of uses per life. Depending on the kind of AA that amount can differ.
Besides, perhaps you should be able to pick up/switch AAs from/with fallen team mates or enemies, so you would not be at a ‘disadvantage’ in case you ran out of uses and you have the possibility to adapt to the battlefield.

The following list contains my suggestions and ideas for the current AAs and how to possibly solve the current issues they are causing and still keep them in loadouts:

Hologram, Thruster Pack and Auto Sentry
I think there is nothing wrong with those 3, they work fine.
Uses per life:
Hologram – 6
Thruster Pack – 6
Auto Sentry – 3

Regen Field and Hardlight Shield
Regen Field and Hardlight Shield need just a slightly longer recharge time in my opinion and HS can only be used when fully charged.
Uses per life:
Regen Field – 2 or 3
Hardlight Shield – 3

Active Camo and Jetpack
The main trouble makers. Both are indeed arguable to be put in loadouts but I think they can fit with some overhauling.

Active Camo:
It should encourage movement and close quarter combat instead of camping and long range sniping.

  • crouching, regular movement and assassinations let you stay invisible
  • instant AA shut down when shooting or getting hit
  • active duration around 15-20 seconds
  • recharge duration around 60 seconds
  • can only be used when fully charged
  • normal appearance on enemy radars but instead of a red dot you appear as a blue dot
  • uses per life: 3

Jetpack:
No doubt, Jetpack can easily affect or exploit map design but I think that is mainly because you can spam it without hesitation.
Uses per life: 2, perhaps 3

Promethean Vision
Well, I honestly do not like the concept of this AA at all and I would not miss it.
Nevertheless, I gave it a chance and perhaps it would not be so “cheap” when you see the enemy only for the moment (a second) when the “wave” hits him.
Besides, it should get a longer recharge time and can only be used when fully charged.
Uses per life: 3

Nonetheless, the easiest way and probably the overall best as well, would be to place my suggested AAs on the map as an improvement of Halo 3s equipment. Though in case AAs at spawn would stay I think my idea would be an improvement of the current implementation and would allay (or solve) the majority of the issues they are causing.

Sorry double post

> I think your Loadout system is too complicated to easily balance. A popular idea from me and a few others about the future of Loadouts has spread like a wildfire around Waypoint.
>
> I’ll detail it here:
>
> Primary Weapons:
> - Assault Rifle
> - Plasma Repeater
> - Battle Rifle
> - Covenant Carbine
> Secondary Weapons:
> - Magnum
> - “Needle Pistol”
> - SMG
> - Plasma Rifle
>
> Due to the fact that a simpler system is easier to balance than a complex one, the Reduced Loadout System restricts Loadouts to only Primary and Secondary Weapons, and only offers four of each. With a total of 16 different combinations that the player can have, gameplay is much more predictable, and the randomness is reduced.
>
> Also, you’ll notice that there are two different niches for each category: Primary Mid Range (BR + CC), Primary Close Range (AR + SR), Secondary Mid Range (M + NP), and Secondary Close Range (SMG + LR). These four different niches balance each weapon in gameplay based on each weapon’s specific niche.
>
> For example, the Battle Rifle will beat the Assault Rifle at mid range, but the Assault Rifle will beat the Battle Rifle at close range. However, despite the fact that the weapons will beat each weapon within their niches, you aren’t out of options if your caught outside of your niche. The Assault Rifle can potentially beat the BR at mid range through short controlled bursts, and the BR can beat the AR at close range with the “2 shots + melee” system.
>
> In order to embrace the philosophy of equal starts, all Loadout options are unlocked from the start. No person will have the ability to play better than another person just because they’ve ranked up more.

Completely Agree with Andycu5.

OP, a few of us have been having mega discussions on how to improve the loadout system if it returned. As listed above by Andycu5. This is pretty much what we have came up with. And I think most of us seem happy with these loadout settings.

Also you should have noted that the DMR, LR and NR are not listed. This is due to the fact these weapons discourage map movement, because they all have extreme range. And that these would be best suited for Map Pickup. As having one of these gives you a big advantage in Long Range. Whilst the AR and BR type weapons are perfect.

AS Andycu5 said, simpler is better.

AA/Equipment to spawn on map. But some would be single use, and others multiple use depending on their strengths and weaknesses.

Also PERKS should be gone forever as most of these features should be a part of your player traits. AS they have been in previous Halo games.

I also think that AA/Equipment with Game Settings can be edited so you can adjust how many times an item can be used. And also the option of starting with them.

> BR and Magnum
> AR and Magnum
>
> The wonderful universal settings of halo 2 and halo 3

I did agree with you, and even created a post that these should be the only loadout choice. It makes sense. But after discussions with other people.

I do now agree with the below Loadout Weapon Choice.

Primary Weapons:

  • Assault Rifle
  • Plasma Repeater
  • Battle Rifle
  • Covenant Carbine
    Secondary Weapons:
  • Magnum
  • “Needle Pistol”
  • SMG
  • Plasma Rifle

These weapons are all very balanced, so if they were not a part of your loadout choice, why have them in the game at all. You could ask, why have them as a part of your loadout. Because some people like choice, and some people prefer Covy Weapons over UNSC weapons, even know they are almost identical.

See previous post: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst228577_Personal-Loadouts-CAN-Work.aspx

I also agree with SWIFT statement below regarding Promethean Weapons:

> I would like to add that loadouts should only contain UNSC and Covenant weaponry. Forerunner weapons should be all superior to their ‘counterparts’, primarily to do the highly advanced Forerunner technology some justice, aside their aesthetics and I think it is easier to make them unique and special when they become their own weapon class instead of trying to fit them into already existing classes.

> > > I think your Loadout system is too complicated to easily balance. A popular idea from me and a few others about the future of Loadouts has spread like a wildfire around Waypoint.
> > >
> > > I’ll detail it here:
> > >
> > > <mark>Primary Weapons:</mark>
> > > <mark>- Assault Rifle</mark>
> > > <mark>- Plasma Repeater</mark>
> > > <mark>- Battle Rifle</mark>
> > > <mark>- Covenant Carbine</mark>
> > > <mark>Secondary Weapons:</mark>
> > > <mark>- Magnum</mark>
> > > <mark>- “Needle Pistol”</mark>
> > > <mark>- SMG</mark>
> > > <mark>- Plasma Rifle</mark>
> > >
> > > Due to the fact that a simpler system is easier to balance than a complex one, the Reduced Loadout System restricts Loadouts to only Primary and Secondary Weapons, and only offers four of each. With a total of 16 different combinations that the player can have, gameplay is much more predictable, and the randomness is reduced.
> > >
> > > Also, you’ll notice that there are two different niches for each category: Primary Mid Range (BR + CC), Primary Close Range (AR + SR), Secondary Mid Range (M + NP), and Secondary Close Range (SMG + LR). These four different niches balance each weapon in gameplay based on each weapon’s specific niche.
> > >
> > > For example, the Battle Rifle will beat the Assault Rifle at mid range, but the Assault Rifle will beat the Battle Rifle at close range. However, despite the fact that the weapons will beat each weapon within their niches, you aren’t out of options if your caught outside of your niche. The Assault Rifle can potentially beat the BR at mid range through short controlled bursts, and the BR can beat the AR at close range with the “2 shots + melee” system.
> > >
> > > In order to embrace the philosophy of equal starts, all Loadout options are unlocked from the start. No person will have the ability to play better than another person just because they’ve ranked up more.
> >
> > Without having to read much of the Poll or your text: <mark>I don’t want the Plasma Rifle (and SMG) to become a loadout weapon. It really does have it’s own niche and placing the weapon in a loadout is going to destroy that.</mark> I rather have it reverted back to the Halo 1 version of it, and place it on the map.
> >
> > I rather have:
> >
> > Primary weapons:
> > BR, AR, Carbine, Plasma Repeater
> >
> > Seccondary Weapons:
> > Magnum, Needle Pistol, and Promethean Pistol.
>
> That’s not entirely true.
>
> Ever since Halo 2, the Plasma Rifle has been weakened to compensate for dual-wielding. Despite the greatness that this weapon had in Halo CE, there is a weapon called the “Storm Rifle” that already fits the same niche as Halo CE’s Plasma Rifle.
>
> If you want your CE Plasma Rifle back, enjoy the Storm Rifle. We can give that weapon the stun-effect and increased accuracy and headshot multiplier that CE’s Plasma Rifle and then call it a day. Having both the CE Plasma Rifle and the Storm Rifle in the same game would just lead to redundancy when the recent incarnations of the Plasma Rifle have had an entirely different niche.
>
> Also, the sole purpose of the “Reduced Loadout System” is to ensure that the weapons themselves aren’t altered in order to be balanced. The SMG and Plasma Rifle have been weaker as stand-alone weapons since Halo 2, why don’t we make them secondary weapons?

Even though both the SMG and Plasma Rifle has been weakened they are both, and especially the Plasma Rifle: Extremely powerful weapons used to drain shields with.

It’s not a loadout weapon, and I would not want it as a close combat loadout weapon (It’s essentialy just a little bit weaker than the Boltshot and will be higly frustrating). If you would want to make it a loadout weapons you would have to make it closer to the Plasma Repeater - Making the two weapons very equal, and unnecessary.

It say dump the Plasma Rifle, add the effect to the Storm Rifle, place it on the map. The Plasma Repeater is just another AR and needs no tweaking.

The SMG is also just a reskinned AR (At least talking from a Halo 3 perspective).

Worse than Halo 4’s by far.

First off, you’re adding even more weapons into the same class as pre-existing weapons. Do we really need like ten different SMG’s and six different rifles?

All that is going to lead to is balance issues, in fact there are already balance issues in your suggestion, with the storm rifle being a direct upgrade to the plasma rifle.

Second, you haven’t explained the role each one fills. Is the AR or the SMG the mid range automatic? How is the needle rifle different from and balanced with the other rifles? How does the Repeater compare to the SMG or AR?

Third, bringing back poorly designed armor abilities and nerfing them doesn’t make them any less poorly designed. Hardlight shield is much better than armor lock.

> there is a weapon called the “Storm Rifle” that already fits the same niche as Halo CE’s Plasma Rifle.

Only if it recieves tons of buffs.

> I would like to add that loadouts should only contain UNSC and Covenant weaponry.

Loadouts should only contain UNSC weaponry, and covenant weapons should be buffed. Forerunner weaponry isn’t the only type that is far more advanced than human weaponry, and it makes more sense anyways.

> Loadouts should only contain UNSC weaponry, <mark>and covenant weapons should be buffed.</mark> Forerunner weaponry isn’t the only type that is far more advanced than human weaponry, and it makes more sense anyways.

Why should we have to completely change the function of the Covenant Weapons? They’re fine the way they are: Balanced with the UNSC Weapons, and also diverse from them. Also, removing the Covenant Weapons from Loadouts would decrease the choice and individuality offered to the player and it would light some sparks among the “Covenant fans” that stalk through the realm of multiplayer.

Not being able to play as Elites in Halo 4 was already a huge issue, and now you want to further escalate the instability by forcing the fans that adhere to the will of the San 'Shyuum to use UNSC weapons only?

And from a canonical standpoint, it’s a time period that we can consider the UNSC and the Covenant equals - meaning that there’s no reason to have to make the Covenant Weapons superior to the UNSC ones. It’s no longer valid to say that the Covenant are “far more advanced” than we are…

…Because they’re not.

In fact, the Covenant’s over reliance on Forerunner technology has cost them their ability to successfully develop their own technological advancement. Soon, most of the members of the Covenant will soon start to break down into famine, starvation, war, civilizational collapse, and we, humans, will likely take advantage of that and force them to submit ('Manity, -Yoink- yeah!)

It’s sad honestly, this Galaxy could have been diverse with hundreds of different forms of technology, culture, and archetcutre, but now we’re all reduced to follow the footsteps of the Forerunners. And we all know what happened to them…

> Why should we have to completely change the function of the Covenant Weapons? They’re fine the way they are: Balanced with the UNSC Weapons, and also diverse from them.

First of all, doing more damage against shields instead of health is not something that significantly sets them apart.

Plasma Rifle in Halo CE: Medium range powerhouse.
Plasma Rifle every game thereafter: A -Yoink- SMG reskin.

Why should they be removed?

First, so they can be buffed into actually unique weapons like the Halo CE PR was and like the current plasma pistol is.

Second, it just makes more sense canonically. A plasma rifle can rip through a spartan in a few shots, while an SMG can not. Not to mention most of the focus in training would be on human weaponry, and not weapons that are no longer being produced.

> Also, removing the Covenant Weapons from Loadouts would decrease the choice and individuality offered to the player and it would light some sparks among the “Covenant fans” that stalk through the realm of multiplayer.

I’d rather be able to pick up a weapon that stuns people, than have an SMG that simply fires blue bullets instead of orange ones.

There is no real variety in loadouts, while on-map weapons differ drastically from one another.

> And from a canonical standpoint, it’s a time period that we can consider the UNSC and the Covenant equals - meaning that there’s no reason to have to make the Covenant Weapons superior to the UNSC ones. It’s no longer valid to say that the Covenant are “far more advanced” than we are…
>
> …Because they’re not.

The UNSC and Covenant are equals because the UNSC has more numbers and resources.

Covenant weapons are still far more powerful regardless.

> First of all, doing more damage against shields instead of health is not something that significantly sets them apart.
>
> Plasma Rifle in Halo CE: Medium range powerhouse.
> Plasma Rifle every game thereafter: A Yoink! SMG reskin.
>
> Why should they be removed?
>
> First, so they can be buffed into actually unique weapons like the Halo CE PR was and like the current plasma pistol is.
>
> Second, it just makes more sense canonically. A plasma rifle can rip through a spartan in a few shots, while an SMG can not. Not to mention most of the focus in training would be on human weaponry, and not weapons that are no longer being produced.

Doing more damage against shields rather than health, having to cool-down rather than reload, and different behavior of the weapons’ “projectile” speed collectively make the Plasma Rifle different from the SMG in more than color. Your point on canon doesn’t carry much weight, since you can’t really say that a Plasma rifle kills a Spartan “in a few shots”, nor that the Plasma Rifle and/or SMG have been discontinued from production (the BR has been around since or before Harvest’s glassing, but didn’t appear in CE). Also, gameplay holds precedence over canon.

> I’d rather be able to pick up a weapon that stuns people, than have an SMG that simply fires blue bullets instead of orange ones.
>
> There is no real variety in loadouts, while on-map weapons differ drastically from one another.
>
> The UNSC and Covenant are equals because the UNSC has more numbers and resources.
>
> Covenant weapons are still far more powerful regardless.

“No real variety in loadouts”? BR, AR, and Carbine aren’t varied weapons… since when exactly?

“UNSC has more numbers and resources”? Really? Do you really think there were more Humans than all Covenant races combined? More resources? The sources of such things were being glassed (Remember Reach). The Covenant did/does have many more advanced and effective weapon systems (Needler, for instance), but the UNSC’s tech does hold its own and they are balanced for gameplay purposes.

Why do you insist on the Plasma Rifle receiving the “stun” effect, rather than the Storm Rifle (which is meant to be more rifle-like/powerful than the Plasma Rifle) and allowing the PR to remain as is? You would essentially get the CE Plasma Rifle and the Plasma Rifle could be a balanced automatic sidearm.

In one of the Halo books, John gets seriously -Yoinked!- up from a single plasma pistol bolt.

In a Halo 4 cutscene, Thorne kills an elite with a single plasma bolt to the back.

You also have a bad habit of using the previous tense when I’m using the current tense. If the covenant schism didn’t happen, humanity would be long gone. Humanity was losing hard, it was only until the events of Halo 4 that they started changing position. The covenant HAD more resources, they no longer DO. Their technological leadership is gone, and their economy is in shambles.

Canon aside, what I suggest is better for gameplay regardless. Let me provide an example in reverse of buffing the Plasma Rifle. We remove the plasma pistol’s EMP function so it fits into loadouts. Now it’s just a magnum with less range.

> Doing more damage against shields rather than health, having to cool-down rather than reload, and different behavior of the weapons’ “projectile” speed collectively make the Plasma Rifle different from the SMG in more than color.

Both are limited to close range, just in different ways. One is projectile, the other is significantly faster projectile with terrible spread.

But the Plasma Rifle drains shields faster and manages ammo arguably better.

So it functions as an upgrade to the SMG, filling the same role with the added benefit of having a much faster melee-beatdown. Another prime example of loadout imbalance.

Sure, you could give the Plasma Rifle some tradeoff to compensate. But that’s yet another unnecessary balancing act that struggles to keep it in line with the SMG while not being overpowered or underpowered. And on top of that, he wants to add yet another SMG, so now we have four SMG’s that must be balanced with each other.

And if that’s not bad enough, he’s also proposing we attempt to balance six precision rifles with each other. And that’s going to be awful hard to do without simply making them essentially reskins of one another.

> Why do you insist on the Plasma Rifle receiving the “stun” effect, rather than the Storm Rifle

I don’t? I don’t care if the Plasma Rifle model never comes back and is replaced by the Storm Rifle model. I was simply discussing the evolution of the gun’s function, not it’s appearance.

Not once did I mention making the Plasma Pistol nerfed for loadouts. I’d much rather 343i introduce a new Covenant sidearm: a Needle Pistol (mentioned in multiple threads).

The Plasma Rifle isn’t an upgrade to the SMG. While the PR does more damage to shields, the SMG does more damage to health. The SMG may go through ammo more quickly, but the PR must be completely replaced to get more “ammo” (as you can’t convert charge from one to another). Lastly, there is no need to introduce/reintroduce the PR’s “much faster melee-beatdown” when compared to the SMG.

I used the past tense because the Halo games that had the PR had an intact Covenant. Its true that the tables are turning, but those Covenant firearms didn’t simply vanish when the hierarchy was taken down (besides, ONI is providing the Storm Covenant with weapons, so there’s that). There are still Plasma Rifles and they can’t exactly run out of ammunition for them, since they operate on battery charges.

I’m not saying, by any means, that I agree with the OP’s suggestion on how to implement Personal Loadouts. This is what I’d like to see:

Primaries

  • Assault Rifle- Battle Rifle- Storm Rifle (with balanced “stun” effect to differentiate from AR)- Covenant Carbine
    Secondaries
  • Magnum- SMG- Needle Pistol- Plasma Rifle
    No Equipment/AAs at-spawn; probably no ‘perks’.