For the love of god, please don’t make H5’s map pool anything resembling H4 and H Reach. Gigantic maps with no clear elements that you need to contest are abominations.
I want something in between Halo 2 / Halo3 map design becasue they were perfect.
It won’t. Developers are caught up in using way to much detail and annoying geometry just because it is “realistic.” They also develop their map around a “theme” instead of just making a unique and fun space with gameplay in mind foremost.
What I mean by annoying geometry are things like staircases instead of ramps. You might not think that is a big deal, but it has a huge impact on how you throw your grenades. Things like hallways have been reduced in size to conform to “realistic” hallway height and width, but this negates a players ability to strafe, and makes grenade spam way too effective. Then there are massive amounts of random geometry in structures to make things look more detailed and that can cause you to get stuck on parts of the map that are randomly jutting out, or can cause your grenades to bounce weird.
The maps in Halo 1 and 2 were extremely simple in terms of geometry and the focus was just making a variety of gameplay spaces. That is why those maps were so good. Halo 3 had some good ones, but that is the point where they started developing around a theme and tried to make things ultra realistic.
need to be larger
and no maps like ragnarok because that ruined halo 4
> It won’t. Developers are caught up in using way to much detail and annoying geometry just because it is “realistic.” They also develop their map around a “theme” instead of just making a unique and fun space with gameplay in mind foremost.
>
> What I mean by annoying geometry are things like staircases instead of ramps. You might not think that is a big deal, but it has a huge impact on how you throw your grenades. Things like hallways have been reduced in size to conform to “realistic” hallway height and width, but this negates a players ability to strafe, and makes grenade spam way too effective. Then there are massive amounts of random geometry in structures to make things look more detailed and that can cause you to get stuck on parts of the map that are randomly jutting out, or can cause your grenades to bounce weird.
What? Ramps and staircases have always functioned identically, they just look different.
I dont understand why ppl say that want maps designed like Halo 2 and 3 maps. IMO every game has had its share of good and bad designs. Not to mention the maps have to be designed for the current gameplay.
> > It won’t. Developers are caught up in using way to much detail and annoying geometry just because it is “realistic.” They also develop their map around a “theme” instead of just making a unique and fun space with gameplay in mind foremost.
> >
> > What I mean by annoying geometry are things like staircases instead of ramps. You might not think that is a big deal, but it has a huge impact on how you throw your grenades. Things like hallways have been reduced in size to conform to “realistic” hallway height and width, but this negates a players ability to strafe, and makes grenade spam way too effective. Then there are massive amounts of random geometry in structures to make things look more detailed and that can cause you to get stuck on parts of the map that are randomly jutting out, or can cause your grenades to bounce weird.
>
> What? Ramps and staircases have always functioned identically, they just look different.
>
> I dont understand why ppl say that want maps designed like Halo 2 and 3 maps. IMO every game has had its share of good and bad designs.
Of course ramps and staircases doesn’t function identically. You have the ramp where you easily can bounce controlled grenades, and you have the staircase where every grenade goes wherever it wants too.
I concur somewhat as Halo 4 had some great map designs, layouts, and geometry most of which are of the following: Castle and Majestic Map Packs, Vertigo, Haven, Solace, Adrift, Longbow, Exile, and a few more(no remakes are inclluded).
I also am doing so because Halo Reach had great BTB maps, most of which I hold some of my most prized gameplay: Spire, Boneyard, Forge World Maps, Countdown, and a few more as well.
All of the maps I have listed are have interesting, great, and fluent gameplay as well as for the bigger maps are[
> Gigantic maps with no clear elements that you need to contest
> The maps in Halo 1 and 2 were extremely simple in terms of geometry and the focus was just making a variety of gameplay spaces. That is why those maps were so good.
All though your statement is correct, I am sure that they could be more than capable to add details and interesting things along to a great map design. The key here is to focus on gameplay first and foremost, then after it is finished should they add the great details they had like in Halo 4.
> What I mean by annoying geometry are things like staircases instead of ramps. You might not think that is a big deal, but it has a huge impact on how you throw your grenades. Things like hallways have been reduced in size to conform to “realistic” hallway height and width, but this negates a players ability to strafe, and makes grenade spam way too effective. Then there are massive amounts of random geometry in structures to make things look more detailed and that can cause you to get stuck on parts of the map that are randomly jutting out, or can cause your grenades to bounce weird.
I’m pretty sure that those ‘staircases’ function, do, and have the same purposes, same properties, and the same format as ramps, they just have added details. If you haven’t noticed, stairs, at least how I have tested it, are ramps that look rigid, but have an invisible barrier on top.
> I concur somewhat as Halo 4 had some great map designs, layouts, and geometry most of which are of the following: Castle and Majestic Map Packs, Vertigo, Haven, Solace, Adrift, Longbow, Exile, and a few more(no remakes are inclluded).
>
> I also am doing so because Halo Reach had great BTB maps, most of which I hold some of my most prized gameplay: Spire, Boneyard, Forge World Maps, Countdown, and a few more as well.
>
> All of the maps I have listed are have interesting, great, and fluent gameplay as well as for the bigger maps are[
>
>
> > Gigantic maps with no clear elements that you need to contest
>
>
>
> > The maps in Halo 1 and 2 were extremely simple in terms of geometry and the focus was just making a variety of gameplay spaces. That is why those maps were so good.
>
> All though your statement is correct, I am sure that they could be more than capable to add details and interesting things along to a great map design. The key here is to focus on gameplay first and foremost, then after it is finished should they add the great details they had like in Halo 4.
>
>
>
> > What I mean by annoying geometry are things like staircases instead of ramps. You might not think that is a big deal, but it has a huge impact on how you throw your grenades. Things like hallways have been reduced in size to conform to “realistic” hallway height and width, but this negates a players ability to strafe, and makes grenade spam way too effective. Then there are massive amounts of random geometry in structures to make things look more detailed and that can cause you to get stuck on parts of the map that are randomly jutting out, or can cause your grenades to bounce weird.
>
> I’m pretty sure that those ‘staircases’ function, do, and have the same purposes, same properties, and the same format as ramps, they just have added details. If you haven’t noticed, stairs, at least how I have tested it, are ramps that look rigid, but have an invisible barrier on top.
They added those barriers in after people complained that their grenades were bouncing all over the place. Also, I completely agree that you can add detail without detracting from map design. Heretic is a perfect example of that. Compared to Midship, Heretic looks AMAZING, but both maps function nearly identically in terms of grenade bouncing, and not getting caught on useless geometry.
the solution for all online FPS games… chest high walls!(comedy!)
I just want maps that are arena based instead of being based on pathways and for the more vehicular maps to be more battlefield oriented and not feel like small maps that were upscaled cause it just feels claustrophobic.
IMO, Halo needs many maps at launch and interactive maps at that. Read below for my opinion on Maps.
MAPS AT LAUNCH:
I think Halo 5 requires about 20 maps at launch will be sufficient.
Map Types Required for Launch:
6 Small
6 Medium
6 Large
2 Very Large (Forge World Size)
And Fire Fight Maps to work with Match Making maps. Not to be new maps.
This may seem to be many maps, and a lot of work for 343i, but if half of these maps were evolved remakes of the best Halo maps. Then the hard work is already done. This would give Halo 5, 10 new maps and 10 remakes. Even 5 new maps and 15 remakes would be great.
Player Increase to 32, for Massive BTB and evolved Invasion/Dominion Playlist.
INTERACTIVE MAPS:
We also require Maps to be Interactive. Maps are one of the most important things about Multi-Player. And a game with bad maps, will not play well. I believe Halo Maps needs to have more interactive maps like those of Halo 2 and Halo 3.
The Interactive Maps in Halo 2/Halo 3 were one of the reasons that made these 2 games so great.
CTF on Halo 3 Highground was hard, unless you could open the gate, which made it more easy. This gave the map another objective that needed to be defended and attacked.
The train on Terminal was a blast, as you watched the enemy drive off with the flag in the warthog, only to see it get splattered by the train. Even those in the warthog got a massive laugh out of it.
These interactive environments have all been lost since REACH and need to return. Look at what Dice is doing with BF4 (Evolution Maps). They Look bloody amazing and changes how the game is played.
I love to see more maps that have the following items that can be activated or deactivated:
Light Bridges
Elevators (That can fit a Tank)
Teleporters
Gates
Shield Doors
Auto Turrets / Base Defences etc
For example, Imagine a base up high, and at the front of the base is a large Elevator. You have the base pretty much covered, and the enemy is not having much luck breaking through your defences. The controls to the elevator are in your base, and left unguarded. The enemy teams works together and placed a Scorpion on the Elevator and sneak someone into your base to activate the elevator switch.
Then the Elevator comes up, with the enemy team and they have a Scorpion Tank. All Hell breaks loose. The game has changed or because someone activated a switch which activated the elevator. This would be awesome. And be great to see these elements available in FORGE.
I would like to see more gates that could be open and closed. The main interactive environments in Halo 2/3 were one way. Once activated, they remained open, except for Halo 2 map Containment.
Containment was a great map. The map had a Main Gate at both bases and when the switch for the gate was activated, you only had 30 seconds before it would close again. This created many great fights at the gate and the gate controls, as once you saw your gate open, you knew the enemy would be making an attack. You could also activate the gate as a diversion, as people mostly thought you would enter from the gate, but you sneak in around the side. This was a great map, and probably one of the best Halo maps made.
With the new Xbox One, 343 should be able to add many new and interesting Interactive Environments that were in Halo 2 / Halo 3.
Halo 5 needs to be great, and return Halo to the # 1 spot on Xbox Live, because we all know it deserves to be there.
We need more Halo 2/Halo 3-quality maps in the next Halo game.
I have a bad feeling though that maps will be getting larger, with the incentive to increase the amount of players in a game and all.
Map design is so important.
> IMO, Halo needs many maps at launch and interactive maps at that. Read below for my opinion on Maps.
>
> MAPS AT LAUNCH:
>
> I think Halo 5 requires about 20 maps at launch will be sufficient.
> Map Types Required for Launch:
> 6 Small
> 6 Medium
> 6 Large
> 2 Very Large (Forge World Size)
>
> And Fire Fight Maps to work with Match Making maps. Not to be new maps.
>
> This may seem to be many maps, and a lot of work for 343i, but if half of these maps were evolved remakes of the best Halo maps. Then the hard work is already done. This would give Halo 5, 10 new maps and 10 remakes. Even 5 new maps and 15 remakes would be great.
>
> Player Increase to 32, for Massive BTB and evolved Invasion/Dominion Playlist.
>
> INTERACTIVE MAPS:
>
> We also require Maps to be Interactive. Maps are one of the most important things about Multi-Player. And a game with bad maps, will not play well. I believe Halo Maps needs to have more interactive maps like those of Halo 2 and Halo 3.
>
> The Interactive Maps in Halo 2/Halo 3 were one of the reasons that made these 2 games so great.
> CTF on Halo 3 Highground was hard, unless you could open the gate, which made it more easy. This gave the map another objective that needed to be defended and attacked.
>
> The train on Terminal was a blast, as you watched the enemy drive off with the flag in the warthog, only to see it get splattered by the train. Even those in the warthog got a massive laugh out of it.
>
> These interactive environments have all been lost since REACH and need to return. Look at what Dice is doing with BF4 (Evolution Maps). They Look bloody amazing and changes how the game is played.
>
> I love to see more maps that have the following items that can be activated or deactivated:
> Light Bridges
> Elevators (That can fit a Tank)
> Teleporters
> Gates
> Shield Doors
> Auto Turrets / Base Defences etc
>
> For example, Imagine a base up high, and at the front of the base is a large Elevator. You have the base pretty much covered, and the enemy is not having much luck breaking through your defences. The controls to the elevator are in your base, and left unguarded. The enemy teams works together and placed a Scorpion on the Elevator and sneak someone into your base to activate the elevator switch.
>
> Then the Elevator comes up, with the enemy team and they have a Scorpion Tank. All Hell breaks loose. The game has changed or because someone activated a switch which activated the elevator. This would be awesome. And be great to see these elements available in FORGE.
>
> I would like to see more gates that could be open and closed. The main interactive environments in Halo 2/3 were one way. Once activated, they remained open, except for Halo 2 map Containment.
>
> Containment was a great map. The map had a Main Gate at both bases and when the switch for the gate was activated, you only had 30 seconds before it would close again. This created many great fights at the gate and the gate controls, as once you saw your gate open, you knew the enemy would be making an attack. You could also activate the gate as a diversion, as people mostly thought you would enter from the gate, but you sneak in around the side. This was a great map, and probably one of the best Halo maps made.
>
> With the new Xbox One, 343 should be able to add many new and interesting Interactive Environments that were in Halo 2 / Halo 3.
>
> Halo 5 needs to be great, and return Halo to the # 1 spot on Xbox Live, because we all know it deserves to be there.
This. Oh sweet Jesus THIS ALL THE WAY!
I almost completely disagree with the OP. Big, medium, and small maps have always been in Halo. I’m tired of the idiots on this forum that just want Halo 3 again (but wid b8tr grawfix!). Guys, come on. Some of you really just sour this great community.
> We need more Halo 2/Halo 3-quality maps in the next Halo game.
>
> I have a bad feeling though that maps will be getting larger, with the incentive to increase the amount of players in a game and all.
Depends on what kind of map were talking about. 4v4 maps shouldnt be increased in size but many BTB maps should so long as they play well.
Anyway back to the OP. I agree that map design needs to be better but some of the best maps have come from Halo Reach and Halo 4. Maps like monolith and pitfall as a remake show that old map design still works with the new gamestyle and that they should aim to make the maps more arena based and build using old map design but also making it accommodate sprint as well (dont start)
> > It won’t. Developers are caught up in using way to much detail and annoying geometry just because it is “realistic.” They also develop their map around a “theme” instead of just making a unique and fun space with gameplay in mind foremost.
> >
> > What I mean by annoying geometry are things like staircases instead of ramps. You might not think that is a big deal, but it has a huge impact on how you throw your grenades. Things like hallways have been reduced in size to conform to “realistic” hallway height and width, but this negates a players ability to strafe, and makes grenade spam way too effective. Then there are massive amounts of random geometry in structures to make things look more detailed and that can cause you to get stuck on parts of the map that are randomly jutting out, or can cause your grenades to bounce weird.
>
> What? Ramps and staircases have always functioned identically, they just look different.
>
> I dont understand why ppl say that want maps designed like Halo 2 and 3 maps. IMO every game has had its share of good and bad designs. Not to mention the maps have to be designed for the current gameplay.
I agree, maps must be designed for current gameplay (pinnacle and reflection, halo 2 remakes, in halo reach felt so out of place).
How many maps do you think actually work well with the current gameplay in halo 4? I would wager less than 8 including dlc, which kills any good playlist composition we could have (ragnorak, haven, pitfall, perdition, exile, skyline).
Something tells me 343i knows this and will deliver solid maps…
I’ve enjoyed and hated maps from all Halo games.
Halo 5 won’t be any different. It will have really good maps, it will have really bad maps. Just like Halo 4 does, Halo: Reach did, and Halo 3 did.
> > It won’t. Developers are caught up in using way to much detail and annoying geometry just because it is “realistic.” They also develop their map around a “theme” instead of just making a unique and fun space with gameplay in mind foremost.
> >
> > What I mean by annoying geometry are things like staircases instead of ramps. You might not think that is a big deal, but it has a huge impact on how you throw your grenades. Things like hallways have been reduced in size to conform to “realistic” hallway height and width, but this negates a players ability to strafe, and makes grenade spam way too effective. Then there are massive amounts of random geometry in structures to make things look more detailed and that can cause you to get stuck on parts of the map that are randomly jutting out, or can cause your grenades to bounce weird.
>
> What? Ramps and staircases have always functioned identically, they just look different.
>
> I dont understand why ppl say that want maps designed like Halo 2 and 3 maps. IMO every game has had its share of good and bad designs. Not to mention the maps have to be designed for the current gameplay.
If you know how games are made or how the physics work in Halo, you’ll know that stairs make bouncing grenades up them impossible because they will bounce back at you instead of bouncing up and exploding with strategic placement. It provides an advantage to whomever is at the top, which can have it’s place in power positions to counter grenade spamming, but can alter the flow of the map so that one side may have an unfair advantage form the start.
Getting stuck on random geometric details has resulted in death that I can notice in people that I watch play too many times. Luckily, I don’t stay too close to walls, but I have had my fair share of stuff like this happening in Call of Duty games, Battlefield, and the recent Halos. It is not pleasant, even if it doesn’t result in death.
Gameplay should be the priority, I don’t care who you are. If it makes the game not play as well, it should be reconsidered. I understand you saying the current gameplay calls for different map designs, but the Halo 2, and most of the Halo 3 maps were perfect for the core Halo gameplay. People want the best gameplay Halo can offer, and the best maps they have experienced, which all points to those games.
> For the love of god, please don’t make H5’s map pool anything resembling H4 and H Reach. Gigantic maps with no clear elements that you need to contest are abominations.
As long as they cannot balance weapons well at the first try, it’ll be hard to have good maps.
You can make a huge good effort on map making, but if we wind up with weapons that can make breathing room non-existant, we’re gonna have hit and misses. 