Halo 5: artstyle

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

Hello everyone! This thread is about why the artstyle of Halo 5 (and Halo 4 because it is mostly the same) is not the one that Halo must keep. Before the actual thread starts I want to clarify some points:

  • THIS THREAD IS POSTED IN THE RIGHT SECTION OF THE FORUMS (GAMES/HALO 5 GUARDIANS), DON’T MOVE IT PLEASE. - I think 343 made an amazing job for Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary and Halo 2 Anniversary, so although those games were not out until 2011 and 2014 I will use them to support the classic artstyle because I think Bungie would have made those things in that way if they had modern technology for developing Halo Combat Evolved and Halo 2 - this also because i think the one game that really defined the universe is Halo 3. - I am also going to evidence some good things about the Halo 5 artstyle**#PART 1: THE MENTAL IDEA OF HALO**

  • Human ambientations always had a common line (more realistic than sci-fi buildings and more angles than round parts) but still have a lot of variety: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 - Covenant ambientations always looked purple metallic and smooth rounded: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - Forerunner ambientations were metallic grey had a lot of angles and few small blue lights through walls (Only some particular structures have big light rays that represent some kind of energy that gets from a point to another) : 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - Human weapons could be easily recognized as Halo weapons, they had something unique: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - Covenant weapons have common traits to their structures (most of them), some weapons are iconic to the series, and some are just for some species to use: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - The only Forerunner-tech weapon was the sentinel beam, so we’ll take a look at it (its style is mostly like Forerunner structures): image - UNSC humans looked and behaved always like military and had funny lines: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - The Covenant looked like this: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - Forerunner-tech entities: 1 - 2 - 3 - UNSC vehicles: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - Covenant vehicles: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - Human ships: 1 - 2 - Covenant ships: 1 - 2 - Characters: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - Notes: 1) also Halo Wars contributed to the mental idea of Halo - 2) for some of the art pieces listed above I linked the one I think is more consistent or lore correct despite its possible unconsistency betwewn the multiple gamesIn the period between 2001 and 2011 the mental idea of Halo was this, we got our minds bombarded by these pieces of art and that was our mental idea of Halo.

#PART 2: CHANGE FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGE
With the mental idea of Halo in mind established in 10 years take a look at how things look now in Halo 5, to help seeing the difference you can also compare the images above with these below:

  • Human ambientations are now generic sci-fi and look all the same: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - Covenant ambientation (that are still artificially built) look like organic stuff (weird): couldn’t find more than this - you’ll see better with vehicles - Forerunner ambientation are now shiny metal grey, have undistinguished angolations, unnecessary metallic layers, lights through all the walls and lots of round pieces: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - Human weapons look realistic sci-fi like instead of mantaining the Halo style: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - Covenant weapons like ambientation are now organic-like and deformed and/or have unnecessary added pieces: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 make also particular attention to the fact that the horrible storm rifle replaced the plasma rifle! (one good art piece of Halo 5 is the plasma caster wich looks like a weapon straight from the classic art style) - Forerunner-tech weapons are now expanded with promethan weapons wich are composed of floating pieces that come together to create the weapon (nothing ever floated in forerunner tech before), have lots of orange lights and unnecessary embossed details: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - UNSC humans are not present in Halo 5 but we can see the Halo 4 marines since the armor is the same that we find in Warzone - they are now generic sci-fi like, don’t look and don’t behave like military (they also not have funny lines like in pre-Halo 4 games): 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - The Covenant look now like this: 1 - 2 - 3 - The Arbiter has wrong phenotype - Prometheans have lots of lights and round shapes and don’t feel like promethean technology: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - some UNSC vehicles changed for no reason, some have a weird replace and some look like toys: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - Covenant vehicles look organic, weird and deformed like ambientations and weapons: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - Argent moon as human ship looks identical human ambientations (0 variety and 0 fantasy): image - Covenant ships, same as ambientations, weapons and vehicles, look organic and weird. What the h*** is that? image - Characters: 1 - 2Conclusions:
    Maybe a few points are subjective, maybe a few things can not change anymore (see Chief’s armor), but you can surely understand five things:

  • The new artstyle is a lot different from the classic one - Old fans that played Halo for 10 years knew it in a certain light and are now forced to like the new artstyle - Some things are clearly wrong (see Arbiter’s phenotype) - 343 just wants to separate from what Bungie did because they want to call Halo theirs and in this way they are going away from what Halo actually is - Some things that changed have no reason or explenation for that (although I like it: Master Chief did wake up in Halo 4 with an armor that is completely different from the Halo 2/3’s and that has NO sense to be.)The solution to this problem is to:

  • Replace wrong stuff like the Arbiter’s phenotype with the right one - Co-existence of elements that can’t be replaced (examples: both Pelicans, both Jackals)This has to be done in Halo 6, please 343 don’t destroy our mental idea of Halo.

OFF-TOPIC: If you care about the direction of this franchise and want Halo to go back to its greatness check my other threads! :slight_smile:

STORY - GEARS OF WAR 4 COMPARISON - HALO 5 REVIEW - THE ARBITER IN HALO 5 - CUSTOMIZATION - A BALANCE AND FUN ISSUE - BLOOD

There is still time to stop the game from dying :slight_smile:

#2

> Covenant vehicles look organic, weird and deformed like ambientations and weapons:

> Covenant ambientation (that are still artificially built) look like organic stuff (weird): couldn’t find more than this - you’ll see better with vehicles

> Covenant weapons like ambientation are now organic-like and deformed and/or have unnecessary added pieces: 1 - 2- 3 - 4 - 5 make also particular attention to the fact that the horrible storm rifle replaced the plasma rifle! (one good art piece of Halo 5 is the plasma caster wich looks like a weapon straight from the classic art style)

> Covenant ships, same as ambientations, weapons and vehicles, look organic and weird. What the h*** is that? image

That’s because they are no longer the technology of the original Covenant, and are meant to showcase Sangheili design philosophy, which is significantly more organic. Not that I’m a huge fan of it. I prefer the old Covenant’s designs, looking mechanical, yet still somewhat organic and elegant in design.

> Prometheans have lots of lights and round shapes and don’t feel like promethean technology:

> Forerunner ambientation are now shiny metal grey, have undistinguished angolations, unnecessary metallic layers, lights through all the walls and lots of round pieces:

> Forerunner-tech weapons are now expanded with promethan weapons wich are composed of floating pieces that come together to create the weapon (nothing ever floated in forerunner tech before), have lots of orange lights and unnecessary embossed details:

Well, Warrior-Servant/Promethean design has been established to have a Tron-esque look to it. Unfortunately, 343 seems to think that Builder designs also followed this style, which is one thing that bothers me about the way Genesis looks.

> Old fans that played Halo for 10 years knew it in a certain light and are now forced to like the new artstyle

Well, you aren’t really forced to like it, more just forced to accept that it exists and largely takes the place of Bungie’s designs.

> Co-existence of elements that can’t be replaced (examples: both Pelicans, both Jackals)

Personally hoping for this in future games. I like 343’s designs to an extent, but the remastered Bungie style from HW2’s cinematics and H2A is my favorite.

#3

Alright, so it took a while to read this entire thing (And honestly, I might have dosed off a bit.), but im just going to keep this short and sweet.

The art style is not exactly bad, nor is it much of a problem, however some parts, such as the covenant and forerunner concept, is different only because of how their technology is advancing and how their changes are taking place. While the anniversary art style is decent, those are different for the same reason; Its based on the technology that the armies had at the time the game takes place.

While I do like both art styles and dont really have much of a problem with anything, all im going to say is that most of it is just based on time-era.

#4

I’m glad that you don’t disguise opinions as fact and you use actual facts like arbiters phenotype although to be fair arbiter did change phenotypes a lot through out the franchise.

I feel like 343’s forerunner design would perfect if they used more colors other than metallic grey, had multiple colors of lights, only have floating bits to where they would be useful such as reconfiguration of the building, and tone down the amount of hard light shown (but I wouldn’t mind if a dark dead structure “wakes up” with some bits of hard light here and there). Although bungie also made some questionable designs. http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/6/60/Citadel_Side.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080216040551

The prometheans on the other hand, remove the legs and the head of the watcher and it’s good, redesign the crawlers but still have them be recognizable, the knights can be special snowflakes and keep their design but maybe design them more along the lines of the knight lancer from halo 4 (seriously it looks like they put a sentinel on it’s back which is a good thing) http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/a/a5/KnightLancer.png/revision/latest?cb=20121122174838

The covenant designs in halo 5 can’t really be considered covenant designs as they are sangheili designs. Just have them side by side the classic designs and it’s good. Although one note 343 can take is to not become completely obsessed with magenta and orange glass like bungie did after halo 2. http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/d/d1/Assembly_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090403012321

The UNSC is a mixed bag for me, the scorpion for me is actually a improved design for me and it removes it’s reputation as the worst designed MBT in history practically wise, then there is the generic structures which need to go, but there is the assault rifle which is light years ahead of bungie’s reach design for it, but there is the awful sniper and rocket though, but chiefs armor is good, then there is seeker…see, mixed bag.

Overall what needs to be done is like you said, fix and improve some of the current designs and have them side by side with the old artstyle.

#5

I’ve been an art snob for Halo since Halo came out. So here is my Unpopular opinion:

if you look at how bungie changed the armor from 3 to reach, and see how the pieces have been separated and redesigned to fit more realistically, the armor in Halo 4-5 makes a lot of sense and I really like it as far as an “Evolved” version of the classic armor. While I didn’t enjoy Reach’s visual style, I can see how 343 made the leap, since the armor Bungie made looks similar in layout on the human figure. I’m sure that if Bungie continued on making Halo games then the armor would have looked similar to how it does now. Halo 2 Anniversay is the same style but in a different engine (the saber one I think) and it looks the best there.

also: covenant vehicles look way more alien in Halo 5.

ps: Halo 2 anniversary Engine and models for the campaign are the best for the original games, but I still prefer Halo 2 Classic elites, and I wish we could just see them in Higher poly model.

#6

Bungie and 343 both have pros and cons to their art style and in Halo Wars 2 it seems like they are finally taking the best of both. So hopefully that transfers over to Halo 6.

My thread about art styles, didn’t go anywhere, but I feel as though it should. Halo 6 SHOULD be the best looking Halo game. And most of all, it should be a HALO game.

#7

Halo 5’s aesthetic weakness is Forerunner and Human design.

#8

I don’t mind the idea of freshening up designs, after all, bungie did that with nearly every halo game they produced.
I just do not understand what the hell 343 is going for with theirs.

#9

My answer in bold

> 2535437652903765;2:
> > Covenant vehicles look organic, weird and deformed like ambientations and weapons:
>
>
>
>
> > Covenant ambientation (that are still artificially built) look like organic stuff (weird): couldn’t find more than this - you’ll see better with vehicles
>
>
>
>
> > Covenant weapons like ambientation are now organic-like and deformed and/or have unnecessary added pieces: 1 - 2- 3 - 4 - 5 make also particular attention to the fact that the horrible storm rifle replaced the plasma rifle! (one good art piece of Halo 5 is the plasma caster wich looks like a weapon straight from the classic art style)
>
>
>
>
> > Covenant ships, same as ambientations, weapons and vehicles, look organic and weird. What the h*** is that? image
>
>
> That’s because they are no longer the technology of the original Covenant, and are meant to showcase Sangheili design philosophy, which is significantly more organic. Not that I’m a huge fan of it. I prefer the old Covenant’s designs, looking mechanical, yet still somewhat organic and elegant in design.
> Well, this could be one of those things that 343 won’t surely change as I said for the Chief’s armor…
>
>
> > Prometheans have lots of lights and round shapes and don’t feel like promethean technology:
>
>
>
>
> > Forerunner ambientation are now shiny metal grey, have undistinguished angolations, unnecessary metallic layers, lights through all the walls and lots of round pieces:
>
>
>
>
> > Forerunner-tech weapons are now expanded with promethan weapons wich are composed of floating pieces that come together to create the weapon (nothing ever floated in forerunner tech before), have lots of orange lights and unnecessary embossed details:
>
>
> Well, Warrior-Servant/Promethean design has been established to have a Tron-esque look to it. Unfortunately, 343 seems to think that Builder designs also followed this style, which is one thing that bothers me about the way Genesis looks.
> That is also important, thanks for pointing that out. And by the way the Tron-esque look sucks even in Tron.
>
>
> > Old fans that played Halo for 10 years knew it in a certain light and are now forced to like the new artstyle
>
>
> Well, you aren’t really forced to like it, more just forced to accept that it exists and largely takes the place of Bungie’s designs.
> This is also right but remains a point for the classic style.
>
>
> > Co-existence of elements that can’t be replaced (examples: both Pelicans, both Jackals)
>
> Personally hoping for this in future games. I like 343’s designs to an extent, but the remastered Bungie style from HW2’s cinematics and H2A is my favorite.
> Yes, this is actually the main thing I’m asking for - alongside fixing the Arbiter’s phenotype and forget Halo 5’s forever.

#10

> 2535462398696491;3:
> Alright, so it took a while to read this entire thing (And honestly, I might have dosed off a bit.), but im just going to keep this short and sweet.
>
> The art style is not exactly bad, nor is it much of a problem, however some parts, such as the covenant and forerunner concept, is different only because of how their technology is advancing and how their changes are taking place. While the anniversary art style is decent, those are different for the same reason; Its based on the technology that the armies had at the time the game takes place.
>
> While I do like both art styles and dont really have much of a problem with anything, all im going to say is that most of it is just based on time-era.

So it is right for human ambientations for be all the same and things such as the Arbiter’s phenotype being changes for no reason? Nope. And I remind you we are just 4 years after Halo 3 and Halo Wars’s artstyle that is in 2525 is almost the same as Halo CEA, 2A, 3, ODST and Reach in 2552. Also, as EMPEROR NOVA01 said:

> Well, Warrior-Servant/Promethean design has been established to have a Tron-esque look to it. Unfortunately, 343 seems to think that Builder designs also followed this style, which is one thing that bothers me about the way Genesis looks.

#11

> 2533274892367695;1:
> - Co-existence of elements that can’t be replaced (examples: both Pelicans, both Jackals)

Why can’t they be replaced?

The in-universe explanation for (some of) the anatomical changes is that we’re fighting a different subspecies. So they could just as well include the original subspecies from here on out.
Same with the weapons. The Pillar of Autumn came from reach, yet didn’t have any grenade launchers or DMRs loaded. The Fleet of Particular Justice didn’t have any needle or focus rifles onboard. Similarly, weapons in future games could be from a different stash/supplier.

I’m not arguing the new designes should disappear without a trace. I’m just saying, there’s nothing that would forbid this from happening…

Other than that, I just want to say props for your post. There’s a lot of images in there, well researched, and I can only imagine how horrible it must have been to correctly format the text with this atrocious forum software.

#12

> 2533274974284436;4:
> **A)**I’m glad that you don’t disguise opinions as fact and you use actual facts like arbiters phenotype although to be fair arbiter did change phenotypes a lot through out the franchise.
>
> **B)**I feel like 343’s forerunner design would perfect if they used more colors other than metallic grey, had multiple colors of lights, only have floating bits to where they would be useful such as reconfiguration of the building, and tone down the amount of hard light shown (but I wouldn’t mind if a dark dead structure “wakes up” with some bits of hard light here and there). Although bungie also made some questionable designs. http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/6/60/Citadel_Side.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080216040551
>
> **C)**The prometheans on the other hand, remove the legs and the head of the watcher and it’s good, redesign the crawlers but still have them be recognizable, the knights can be special snowflakes and keep their design but maybe design them more along the lines of the knight lancer from halo 4 (seriously it looks like they put a sentinel on it’s back which is a good thing) http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/a/a5/KnightLancer.png/revision/latest?cb=20121122174838
>
> **D)**The covenant designs in halo 5 can’t really be considered covenant designs as they are sangheili designs. Just have them side by side the classic designs and it’s good. Although one note 343 can take is to not become completely obsessed with magenta and orange glass like bungie did after halo 2. http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/d/d1/Assembly_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090403012321
>
> **E)**The UNSC is a mixed bag for me, the scorpion for me is actually a improved design for me and it removes it’s reputation as the worst designed MBT in history practically wise, then there is the generic structures which need to go, but there is the assault rifle which is light years ahead of bungie’s reach design for it, but there is the awful sniper and rocket though, but chiefs armor is good, then there is seeker…see, mixed bag.
>
> **F)**Overall what needs to be done is like you said, fix and improve some of the current designs and have them side by side with the old artstyle.

I’ll try to reply on points:
A) If you actually read the whole thread about the Arbiter I made and you follow the logic line you’ll understand that the only very different phenotype is the one in Halo 5.
B) I don’t mind if something Bungie did is questionable or not. They created Halo, so every piece of art in their games is how Halo really looks. As I said in another thread:

> If you write a book and the adaptation on the big screen gets screwed up by the director wouldn’t you be mad about that? That’s how I feel when I look to 343’s artstyle. (Not that Halo is mine, but I like how it was created by Bungie.)

Thing is, I like how it was and there was NO NEED to change it.
C)D) Those designs will probably not change because 343 could give an explenation for that (the Sangheili thing for tha Covenant and the Warrior-Servant or Builder thing for Forerunner tech - although they made Genesis that is a Forerunner Builder-tech planet like a Warrior-servant-tech planet that is wrong, because they don’t give a s*** and want everything to lok like Requiem in Forerunner tech now -_-)
E) As everybody says here on the forums most of us want the Halo 2/3 marines back because they are the most significant to the universe. Things that are iconic like the Scorpion have to remain as before Halo 5 or before Halo 4 for the Pelican because that’s what fans love. Spartans do have to look like Spartans and not Power Rangers. And by the way I hate Reach’s assault rifle, 5’s is my favourite except for the colors wich I would prefer dark grey like Halo 3.
F) yep

#13

Opinions aside, this is such a well written post. Well done, OP.

#14

> 2533274807881644;5:
> I’ve been an art snob for Halo since Halo came out. So here is my Unpopular opinion:
>
> if you look at how bungie changed the armor from 3 to reach, and see how the pieces have been separated and redesigned to fit more realistically, the armor in Halo 4-5 makes a lot of sense and I really like it as far as an “Evolved” version of the classic armor. While I didn’t enjoy Reach’s visual style, I can see how 343 made the leap, since the armor Bungie made looks similar in layout on the human figure. I’m sure that if Bungie continued on making Halo games then the armor would have looked similar to how it does now. Halo 2 Anniversay is the same style but in a different engine (the saber one I think) and it looks the best there.
>
> also: covenant vehicles look way more alien in Halo 5.
>
> ps: Halo 2 anniversary Engine and models for the campaign are the best for the original games, but I still prefer Halo 2 Classic elites, and I wish we could just see them in Higher poly model.

I will never get how you fanboys link Halo Reach’s Artstyle to Halo 4 and 5.

These are Spartans:
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5
These are Power Rangers:
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5period.

#15

> 2533274826919611;8:
> I don’t mind the idea of freshening up designs, after all, bungie did that with nearly every halo game they produced.
> I just do not understand what the hell 343 is going for with theirs.

that would be fine if we get both species of Jackals, Elites, enemies having new Halo 5 covie vehicles and Arbiter’s having classic style ones ecc…

#16

> 2533274801176260;11:
> > 2533274892367695;1:
> > - Co-existence of elements that can’t be replaced (examples: both Pelicans, both Jackals)
>
>
> Why can’t they be replaced?
>
> The in-universe explanation for (some of) the anatomical changes is that we’re fighting a different subspecies. So they could just as well include the original subspecies from here on out.
> Same with the weapons. The Pillar of Autumn came from reach, yet didn’t have any grenade launchers or DMRs loaded. The Fleet of Particular Justice didn’t have any needle or focus rifles onboard. Similarly, weapons in future games could be from a different stash/supplier.
>
> I’m not arguing the new designes should disappear without a trace. I’m just saying, there’s nothing that would forbid this from happening…
>
> Other than that, I just want to say props for your post. There’s a lot of images in there, well researched, and I can only imagine how horrible it must have been to correctly format the text with this atrocious forum software.

Well, then I say, why can’t they co-exist? XD And by the way, yes I put there lot of time, thanks for noticing :slight_smile:

#17

> 2533274973979999;13:
> Opinions aside, this is such a well written post. Well done, OP.

Thanks, that’s because I really care about Halo and although I have no more faith in 343 I won’t give up to them until something of Halo 6 is shown :slight_smile:

#18

> 2533274892367695;17:
> > 2533274973979999;13:
> > Opinions aside, this is such a well written post. Well done, OP.
>
>
> Thanks, that’s because I really care about Halo and although I have no more faith in 343 I won’t give up to them until something of Halo 6 is shown :slight_smile:

That’s a better attitude than a lot of other people! Glad to hear you aren’t giving up so easy

#19

Well thought out post OP.

I make no bones about it, I prefer Bungie’s designs on the whole to 343’s. That said, as others have mentioned, I wouldn’t mind if they would blend both the old and new styles at the same time. It appears HW2 is poised to do this, that’s a good thing.

#20

Another one of these threads, SMH.