Halo 4's Forge: A Dissapoinment

Just to start out, I’d like to assure you that I know what I’m talking about. I’ve been forging since the release of Halo 3, and I’ve made over a hundred maps in Halo 3 and Reach. I know what I’m talking about. This is a list of all of the things that make Halo 4’s Forge mode inferior to Reach’s. I’m not trying to make anyone mad, I’m just trying to get 343’s attention so that they can hopefully either fix these issues in Halo 4 or remedy them in Halo 5. Please don’t troll this thread.

1- Halo Reach had a much better forging environment.

I didn’t even like Forge World all that much to begin with, as there was only one type of scenery on the entire map. However, at least the map was big enough to allow players to make a large variety of maps, in Halo 4 the maps are either too small in general or lack good forging spaces. Here, I’ll show you. Forge World’s good forging spaces included but were not limited to: The island, the cave, the quarry, the canyon (long ways), the canyon (short ways), Montana, Alaska, that overhang next to the waterfall, in the air, the coliseum, that one spot over the cave in the canyon, and the massive amount of space over the ocean. In Halo 4? Well, Impact has one decently sized rock and the air, Erosion has the air and the coliseum, and Ravine is just terrible. Why can’t we just have another big map like Sandbox? With a giant desert, a massive sky bubble, and a crypt?

2- Same palette, harder to look at and more issues.

I’d hoped that 343 would hear the cries of the forgers from Halo Reach, who’ve been asking for a new Forge palette since the beginning of 2011. Why can’t each map have a unique palette again? Like Foundry and Sandbox? Hell, Forge World’s palette may have been bad but at least the shape of the pieces made sense, the blocks were perfect squares, whereas in Halo 4 they’re irregularly shaped on the sides. Why even do that? It makes it next to impossible to make a floor without bumps, holes, or Z-fighting. This decision made no sense at all. Not only are the pieces more obnoxious to use, they’re more obnoxious to look at. Sure, grey is a boring color to look at, but white? White objects onscreen straight up assault your retinas, especially when every item you’re looking at is white.

3- Magnets don’t work.

Yep, arguably the most shown off tool added to Forge isn’t functional. How so? Well, the magnets are only designed to line up objects with the same object and occasionally a few others. And not even that’s reliable, some objects don’t even line up correctly with the same object using the magnets. Take the Large Brace, you have to turn magnets off to line these things up because they aren’t placed symmetrically. That’s unacceptable.

4- Severe lack of Custom games and Custom options ruin forge maps.

What happened to Race, Invasion, Assault, and all of the other gametypes that were removed? What happened to actually being able to create new gametypes that felt really different from the core game? Halo’s longevity is mostly due to its community and Custom Games, you take that away and you’re losing a lot.

5- Every annoying glitch that was in Reach is still present in Halo 4.

Will every object on the map you just made tilt slightly when you save it? Probably. Will your save overwrite another map of yours? Possibly. Does the 90 degree snap finally work well? Hah! Good one. Well, does the 45 degree snap still work at least? Nope, that one got messed up. How did none of these issues get fixed?

6-Removal of vital features to Forge.

This is the one that I can’t for the life of me wrap my head around, Halo 4’s forge tools are a step forward only to be smacked in the face with a bus and shot back. Wait, scratch that, Halo 4’s added features aren’t even a step. It’s a gradual lean forward before getting hit with a bus. There is no reason, I repeat, no reason that the Precision editor should’ve been removed. That was one of if not the most useful tool in Reach, it allowed players to create smooth floors with no bumps or Z-fighting, allowed people to line up different types of objects near-perfectly, allowed players to make smooth racetracks, and much much more. Even if magnets were functional they wouldn’t be a worthy successor to the precision editor. Another thing, why take away the ability to zoom? There’s no reason for that, that’s a really simple and really useful ability.

7- It’s impossible to grab an item from anywhere but the center.

Self explanatory, this decision makes less than no sense.

8- Half a File Browser.

I don’t care if this is going to be added in later, it’s been four months. There is no excuse. Having no online filebrowser this long after the game’s release is inexcusable. It wouldn’t be so bad if they had made people’s fileshares viewable from the custom game lobby Halo 3 style, but they aren’t. Awesome!

> I don’t care if this is going to be added in later, it’s been four months. There is no excuse. Having no online filebrowser this long after the game’s release is inexcusable. It wouldn’t be so bad if they had made people’s fileshare viewable from the custom game lobby Halo 3 style, but they aren’t. Awesome!

I have a feeling the whole industry is laughing at them right now. I also wonder how many people quit since the game launched.

Place at start: False does not work and no infection yet so very few custom games.

I’ll bump for your obvious effort into this thread, and I do agree with you. I would gladly pay 10 dollars for a exclusively forged based DLC, and even a simple remake of forge world I would pay for. Honestly, what we have now is not cutting it.

Those 3 years were spent making campaign and Spartan Ops, almost no involvement and innovation on Forging and Customs.

I agree 100% I feel like they just only cared about Spartan Ops and Campaign and had no intention of making Forge and Custom games great… they just threw it in there…

Oh hey ZZZ! Someone else from BPS forums. How nice. I remember some of your maps. Do you still host those custom games where you’d invite from that substitute gamer tag? :confused:

In any case, totally agree. Forge has had good things removed and good ideas input in a terrible way.
Say, you know how those 6-10 Spartan Ops maps are massive? Imagine forging on those.

> Oh hey ZZZ! Someone else from BPS forums. How nice. I remember some of your maps. Do you still host those custom games where you’d invite from that substitute gamer tag? :confused:
>
> In any case, totally agree. Forge has had good things removed and good ideas input in a terrible way.
> Say, you know how those 6-10 Spartan Ops maps are massive? Imagine forging on those.

Likewise, it’s nice to see someone hailing from the good ol’ BPS forums (Though I’m kind of on hiatus from Bnet because the new layout bothers me…)

Anyways, I just think a DLC / add on would be the best idea with a nice open map with some forgeable water / a large skybox and perhaps some smoother pieces (and maybe fine editing, if that’s possible…) to be added in would be great and I would certainly pay for it.

And yes, I’ve been putting that spare GT to use lately. Though not for machinima purposes any more as Halo 4’s tools for it have disappointed as well…

I have done a lot of forging in reach and I don’t forge any in Halo 4 I tried it but everything you pointed out was what makes me mad. Specifically the magnets are broken and the precision editor is gone. Why that makes no sense.

Still trying to figure how to make a cft map. No ideas.

Halo 4 forge is great you probably don’t know how to use it. My friend has been in forge all day for the last 5 days…it’s kinda annoying cause he won’t play anything else.

BTW you can make a race gametype in Halo 4 and magnets do work.subcribe to this guy you’ll see forge and customs are great.

Let me just start by saying that I came in here to add on my own reasons for disliking Forge, maybe to get the devs to notice, but WHOOPS, Triple Z here just named every single one.

I forge. It’s what I do. Halo 3 was core CTF, Reach, Invasion and Symmetrical Objective Maps.

When I heard 343 was ‘improving’ Halo 4 forge, I thought great! New shading! fixed z fighting and no more silly frame rate issues.

That was it.

Then they got rid of Zoom, then precision forge, then they made the Coliseum wall smaller, then they gave us impossibly small and unusable land to build with all the limited features. THEN they got rid of invasion, and I gave up.

I never like race, to be fair. But I never thought of it as a game breaker. But I played the crap out of Invasion. Something about the rush and total team cooperation on Spire made that gametype so much fun.

> Halo 4 forge is great you probably don’t know how to use it. My friend has been in forge all day for the last 5 days…it’s kinda annoying cause he won’t play anything else.

LOL shut it man, you don’t know who you’re saying that to.

> > Halo 4 forge is great you probably don’t know how to use it. My friend has been in forge all day for the last 5 days…it’s kinda annoying cause he won’t play anything else.
>
> LOL shut it man, you don’t know who you’re saying that to.

Lol what you’re a forger like him too? xD I try but I don’t have the time to been in there for hours trying to make a perfect map. I have a few incomplete BTB maps cause I stopped after about an hour lol

I’ve made quite a few maps that never reached the light of real world day. But ZZZ? Infection runs in his forge blood IMO.

I only had a few maps in reach tested. None of them perfected to get me to try and mass test, since A, Halo 4 was being released and B, The maps just never got to that state.

Halo 3 however, I thoroughly enjoyed coming home on the weekend to my friend saying “So what map do you have for us to play this weekend?”.

Two issues hurt Halo 4’s Forge a bit.

  1. 343 is a new group making a new game that no one was supposed to know about for a long time. So I don’t think they looked for too many outside influences. Plus, Halo for Bungie was just a completely inspired effort. Halo 4 was an obligatory Halo title.

  2. Current gen technology. Next-gen tech, I believe, will allow the designers to get more creative.

> I’ve made quite a few maps that never reached the light of real world day. But ZZZ? Infection runs in his forge blood IMO.
>
>
> I only had a few maps in reach tested. None of them perfected to get me to try and mass test, since A, Halo 4 was being released and B, The maps just never got to that state.
>
> Halo 3 however, <mark>I thoroughly enjoyed coming home on the weekend to my friend saying “So what map do you have for us to play this weekend?”.</mark>

I had 1 great Halo 3 map everyone enjoyed playing. Some people even say it’s like a map bungie made but scrapped it. I wish I could remake it in Halo 4 but I can’t cause there are no tubes :frowning:

@higlight that is how Halo 4 is for me now. I downloaded over 50 maps and my friends always ask me when I get on “got any new maps today?” reasons like that is why I say Halo 4 forge is great.

Any points that I don’t address below are points that I agree with.

> Not only are the pieces more obnoxious to use, they’re more obnoxious to look at. Sure, grey is a boring color to look at, but white? White objects onscreen straight up assault your retinas, especially when every item you’re looking at is white.

I haven’t found this to be the case. White is as colorless and neutral as grey, without being as dull. The camera also “adjusts” to light similarly to the human eye, so if things are appearing too brightly, then it may be your TV settings.

> There is no reason, I repeat, no reason that the Precision editor should’ve been removed. That was one of if not the most useful tool in Reach, it allowed players to create smooth floors with no bumps or Z-fighting, allowed people to line up different types of objects near-perfectly, allowed players to make smooth racetracks, and much much more.

It definitely wasn’t one of the most useful tools in Reach’s Forge. Precision editing is nice, but it’s nowhere near the level of phased physics or gametype labels. I can see how its removal would be bad for racetrack Forgers, but if you’re building a conventional map and you need it enough for its absence to be intolerable, then you may want to rethink how you’re putting pieces together.

That said, its removal is indeed weird. A Certain Affinity interview hinted that it was simply an oversight. Take from that what you will.

> 7- It’s impossible to grab an item from anywhere but the center.
>
> Self explanatory, this decision makes less than no sense.

I’ve never ran into this bug.

> I don’t care if this is going to be added in later, it’s been four months.

It’s already in.

> There is no excuse.

The File Browser has to be able to hold and supply a theoretically infinite amount of content to a hundred thousand concurrent users, in a timely manner, with multiple complex search types.

Is it bad that the Browser was dead on release? Yes. Is it impossible to justify? No.

> Place at start: False does not work

It works on almost all objects. It will not affect Player Trait Zones or anything in the Spawning category, and it probably doesn’t affect Gravity Volumes. This all appears to be by design.

> Halo 4 forge is great you probably don’t know how to use it.

That’s a bold presumption to make. :\

I’ve played several of Zip Zap Zop’s journey maps, and each one was impeccably constructed and balanced. He definitely knows how to Forge.

Hey Cobb, you have any maps made yet? I just got back into Halo 4 after a hiatus in Halo Wars.