Halo 4 Thoughts Day 2: Loadouts/AAs

Games Other Halo
1

Hello everyone. Welcome to day 2 of Halo 4 Thoughts. As a reminder, I’m doing this because I’m working on a wishlist for Halo 5 and want to gather opinions and also to show 343 whether or not we like the direction they’re taking with Halo. Today, I want to talk about Loadouts, Armor Abilities and Customization.

Armor Abilities
I think Armor Abilities are great and are a good evolution of Equipment in Halo 3. However, I think they could be implemented better. Currently, we spawn with the AA we chose in our loadouts. I think that instead of spawning with them, AAs should be map ordnance, like weapons, grenades and power-ups. That way, it gives us another thing to fight for, which promotes map movement. It would also make AAs like Jet-pack and Promethean vision not OP since we would have to fight for them. It would also provide a nice balance between classic Halo and modern Halo, which is what I’m doing in my Halo 5 wishlist.

Also, Camo should return to being a power-up.

Loadouts
Halo 4 introduced loadouts to Halo multiplayer, following the trends in recent multiplayer shooters. Do I like loadouts as they currently are? NO. Could they work? YES. Here’s how:

Secondary weapons: In Halo 4, we are offered the choice between the Magnum, the Plasma Pistol and the Boltshot. We all know how poorly that turned out. In BTB, everyone and their grandma has a PP which means that vehicles are pretty much useless. On small maps, a lot of players use the Boltshot to camp around corners (sometimes with Active Camo. Both of these things lead to an experience that is not enjoyable. That’s why I think that when it comes to secondaries, we should all get a Magnum.

Grenades: In Halo 4, we can choose between frags,plasmas and pulse grenades. I think that we should only be able to spawn with frag grenades because spawning with plasma grenades ruins BTB and nobody uses Pulses anyway. Also, grenades should be as powerful as they were in previous games.

Armor Mods: Halo 4 also introduced Armor mods (or perks). I also think that these should be removed because they offer too many variables (I think that whenever I enter a Halo match, all spartans should be equal) and they negatively impacted the sandbox. Grenades sucked unless you used Explosive (Frags can’t kill a full-shield spartan, WTF?!), you can’t pick up grenades unless you use Resupply.

So basically, the only thing we should choose in our loadouts are the primary weapons (assuming they are balanced). The choices should appear like in Reach but instead of choosing our AA, we choose our starting weapon.

Customization
A thing I love about Halo is the amount of customization that we can do. Every spartan is different, which is awesome. I do think we could improve on this a lot though. Here’s how:

Weapon Skins: Halo 4 introduced weapon skins but IMO they were poorly implemented. There are few of them and they are separate weapons, meaning you can’t have a weapon skin in a playlist with forced loadouts such as Throwdown or Rumble/Doubles Pro. In future games, there should be lots of Weapon Skins like CoD and GoW. We should also be able to put our Service tag and our emblem on our weapons. Equipping skins should work like in Black Ops 2, not like in Halo 4. That way we’ll be able to have our weapon skins in forced weapon playlists.

Armor Design: I personally think the armor design in Halo 4 sucks. The helmets are very ugly IMO. I think having a mix between H3, Reach and H4 armor designs would be great.

Armor Effects: I think those should return because they were awesome in Reach.

Also, which topic would you like to see? The current list of topic is (not in order of appearance):

-Campaign
-Spartan Ops vs Firefight
-Forge
-Theater
-Armor Abilities
-Vehicles
-Loadouts/Customization
-Ranking System
-Playlist Structure
-Sandbox
-Maps
-User Interface
-Map Ordnance
-Personal Ordnance
-Sprint
-Power-Ups
-Micro-transactions and DLC
-Peer to Peer vs Dedicated Servers
-Classic Halo vs Halo 4 (this will most likely be saved for the last topic)
-e-Sports support
-Instant Respawn
-Static vs Dynamic Spawns
-De-Scope vs Flinch
-Killcams
-Join in Progress
-Search Options
-Beta test
-Spectator Mode
-Bot Mode

2

PERSONAL ORDINANCE, JOIN IN PROGRESS, AND SPRINT should be discussed next imo opinion as they are some of the biggest controversies surrounding halo 4

Other than that great post and i 100% agree with you the only thing we should be able to choose in our load-outs are the armour abilities and the primary weapon

3

What we’ve touched on a while back, was the idea that perhaps AAs have a limited use.

So for example if you had a jetpack you would get say 60 seconds of flight before you had to drop it and pick up a new AA/Equipment.

We also discussed the possibility of having AAs along side Equipment as perhaps an AA (or space) which lets you pick up equipment, or different species having one or another (Spartans use equipment/ elites use AAs)

and then there’s the option of having only one or the other

4

I only agree to an extent.

I believe that some AA’s should be pick ups, but I think you should start with some of the more basic ones. To use Halo 4 as an example.

Regen, Hardlight and Thruster can be starters

Turret, Camo, Jetpack and Vision would be pickups. Also Loadouts should be split between Spartan Ops and Matchmaking so that you can use anything in Spartan Ops and only some things in Matchmaking. I do not however believe they should be on Map, and should be Personal Ordnance only.

Secondly: I feel the perks in this game only accomplished weakening us for the most part. Certain things were made perks and nerfed about the Spartans in general, like grenade pick up and capacity, aswell as Shield Recharge. Things like adding sensor range or ammo are perfectly fine and could be reused. But there is no need to nerf the basic settings to accomplish another feature.

Secondary weapons and Grenades: While I agree that having a PP when you spawn is a little absurd, the other absurdity comes from Vehicles being able to reign unopposed because we went back to a Map Placement system for weapons. I would rather have everyone start with one, but limit the ammo in it to one charged shot. Other, full ammo ones, could be dropped on the map from Random Ordnance or Personal Ordnance.

As far as grenades go, Plasmas just need to be limited down to a single one for start, and more can be gathered later from dead enemies or ordnance. If you increase the armor on vehicles, and only give people one Plasma, they will still have to work as a team to take down a vehicle without making the vehicles become too overpowered again.

5

@Road Wulf

Armor Abilities:
I definitely like your idea and think it would work much better than what we currently have but instead of having some AAs in loadouts and others as PO, I think it would be better to have them all on maps because:

  1. It would allow for multiple-tiers of AAs. The 3 you suggested should be in loadouts would be low-tier AAs that could be found near the teams’ spawns/bases while things like PV and Jetpack would be high-tier and would make teams fight for control of those, the same way they do for weapons and power-ups.

-While having AAs as Personal Ordnance would definitely work (in that case I think that we should choose in our loadouts which 3 AAs appear and all of them should be in PO, meaning we don’t spawn with any) much better than AAs currently do (Throwdown uses PO and it works extremely well), I think having them on the maps add another thing that promotes map movement. But I will say that I really like the idea (imagine having how cool having 3 choices for Team Slayer while having 3 other choices for CTF would be).

Perks: I think they should just go away. I think that the spartans themselves should be equal and having perks doesn’t allow for that.

Secondaries and Grenades: The point of BTB is to control the vehicles. And they would not reign supreme since there would be power weapons such as Rocket Launcher and Spartan Lasers along with Plasma Pistols to stop them. That’s how BTB worked and it was much better than it currently is. Having only one charged shot would make the Plasma Pistol useless and no one would choose it. Making weapons when they’re from the loadouts different from when they are picked up is not the way to go.

6

I’m pretty much against returing to Map placement in any form (weapons, AA’s) I can get behind grenade placement so long as that is not the only way you can have grenades (loadouts).

So we’re just going to have to agree to disagree about how AA’s should be aquired, but we can atleast agree that certain ones should not easily accessible.

Edit: Woot! I just noticed I leveled up to Marine finally. happy dance

7

Without map placement, the game just becomes a camp fest. Let’s say I find a power position on a map. I’m able to get a lot of kills with that Sniper that I picked up at the beginning of the match but then I run out of ammo. In previous Halo games, I would’ve came out of that power position, fight my way to the new Sniper and make my way back to that power position. Meanwhile, an enemy might’ve gotten a hold of it meaning I would have to coordinate with my teammates to get him out of there, in order to get back that position. This is something Bungie did very well with their map design, they placed power weapons away from power positions, encouraging map mouvement.

In Halo 4, I’m simply able to call in another Sniper (with 12 bullets in it, WTF?!) and keep camping that position.

You tell me which experience is more enjoyable between those two.

8

Ok, except that in your scenario, it doesn’t take into account the map control becoming camping.

You sit in your power position, while your team holds down the weapon spawn. So you’re allowed to sit there and camp to your heart’s content, and when you run out of ammo you run back to get your guaranteed to be there Sniper Rifle that you team was happy to keep control of.

In a Random system, you might be able to get a Sniper weapon and get into a good position, but just because you call in an Ordnance doesn’t mean you’re getting another Sniper weapon. You may be getting a damage boost/overshield/pulse grenade choice, and you are not guaranteed to be able to keep sitting in your camping position sniping.

Random ordnance keeps people from being able to control certain types of weapons constantly.

9

Any other opinions? Because this guy should not be allowed to talk about Halo.

Also, what should I talk about tomorrow? Currently thinking about doing a Personal Ordnance thread.

10

> Any other opinions? Because this guy should not be allowed to talk about Halo.

Why? Because he disagrees with you?

The Halo engine is quite flexible. If enough folks like random spawns to justify playlists that include them, so be it. You do not have to play those playlists. At the same time, if there are enough folks to like fixed spawns to justify playlists that include them, so be it. He does not have to play those.

Convince 343i that the variety of settings in playlists ought to increase rather than trying to change the game for everyone.

Back to the primary point, for AAs, there may be another way to skin the cat that has merit. Make the AAs come with undesirable side effects that are proportional to their benefits. Designate AAs as needing a self-contained power source (so regen, jetpack, thruster), or as using shield power (camo, PV, sentry, hardlight). If an AA has a self-contained power source, it has a chance to (or always) blows up when taking unshielded fire while actively being used. If an AA uses shield power, it depletes shields proportional to its benefit. So camo would deplete a lot; hardlight a little.

That way AAs become less of a crutch because your opponents can exploit their weaknesses if you overuse them or use them in the wrong situation. It also requires players to consider the risk that using the AA entails.

Right now, camo is annoying because there are no downsides to using it beyond sensor range. But if initiating camo halves shields, and it continues to deplete shields while in use, camping with it becomes difficult. You might get the one sniper kill, but unless you move, you’re a visible, shieldless DMR sponge once it expires.

For jetpacks, the animation when a jetpack flyer’s pack blows up would be infinitely cooler than the twitch/flop/fall sequence. I know this because I’ve compared hitting a jetpacker in midair with a rocket vs. a BR. Though you still have twitch/flop/fall, the extra explosion animation and arcing dead body makes the rocket hit loads better. The increased opportunity to watch midair exploding Spartans alone makes this worth implementing (j/k).

11

> I’m pretty much against returing to Map placement in any form (weapons, AA’s) I can get behind grenade placement so long as that is not the only way you can have grenades (loadouts).
>
> So we’re just going to have to agree to disagree about how AA’s should be aquired, but we can atleast agree that certain ones should not easily accessible.
>
> Edit: Woot! I just noticed I leveled up to Marine finally. happy dance

Why don’t you want map placement? Why should I run out of ammo on my LR, and have to pick up some noob’s DMR?

I think a great way to encourage random ordnance would for it to drop every 3 minutes, and have a drop recon marker and timer. It should only drop in neutral locations, and should always drop the sane thing, but they drop position would be random. The teams would have 3 minutes to shift the balance of power.

I would like forge to be the next subject.

12

@Maximus

Not because of that.
Because of this: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postsm2478423_Halo-4-Thoughts-Day-1--Ordnance.aspx#post2478423

Feel free to read his other posts in that topic if you need a good laugh.

13

> @Maximus
>
> Not because of that.
> Because of this: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postsm2478423_Halo-4-Thoughts-Day-1--Ordnance.aspx#post2478423
>
> Feel free to read his other posts in that topic if you need a good laugh.

I did, but I didn’t laugh. Some folks like chaotic play. I do too . . . but not always. There’s merit to both gametypes. The chaotic type appeals to me when I just want to run around and blow things up with other people who want to run around and blow things up. Other times, I would prefer to play a more controlled game where strategy plays a larger role.

If you check my CSR, you will see that I am not good at all. Perhaps the chaotic play only appeals to me because the controlled play is still too difficult for me to always be enjoyable. I rather doubt it; I think even if I were an exceptional player I would still sometimes prefer to play a more insane game. And just because a noob like me still enjoys chaos does not mean that the noob neither wants to improve nor has the capability of improving. But forcing the noob to always play settings that invariably result in 5-shot-dead-noob may very well frustrate said noob to the point where he or she no longer wants to improve because the game is not fun.

As long as you have the ability to play the type of game you want to play, it really doesn’t matter if he plays a different game. Just my opinion, but I feel that time would be more effectively spent arguing for the inclusion of your gametype instead of the exclusion of his.

14

All you said would be simply negated with a ranking system. And if you guys want the chaos, there’s Action Sack (which I very much enjoy) but -Yoink- like random ordnance has absolutely nothing to do in the main gameplay environment which is supposed to be fun, balanced and competitive, the way it used to be.

15

> @Maximus
>
> Not because of that.
> Because of this: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postsm2478423_Halo-4-Thoughts-Day-1--Ordnance.aspx#post2478423
>
> Feel free to read his other posts in that topic if you need a good laugh.

> Exactly my point. You can’t know, so you can’t plan. So a team that isn’t full of people who have trained together has just as much chance as getting that weapon as the people who would know respawn times down to an art and keep map control over certain weapons to stop anyone else from ever getting them.
>
> In other words, an unbalanced system which caters to specific few.

Sigh…

News flash Road: Better players are supposed to win. That’s what balance is. Catering to the ‘specific few’ is catering to the people who have earned the win.

“Equality to probability in winning”, that’s because the wins are randomly determined, so yeah of course everyone is equal in that right. Doesn’t make it remotely fair or balanced.

> . If an AA uses shield power, it depletes shields proportional to its benefit. So camo would deplete a lot; hardlight a little.

I still prefer on-map AA’s but this is an interesting concept nonetheless. Regardless, I’m not sure if camo and jetpack would still be balanced in loadouts, and it’s an unnecessary downside for AA’s you have to grab off the map.

16

> News flash Road: Better players are supposed to win. That’s what balance is. Catering to the specific few is catering to the people who have earned the win.
>
> “Equality to probability in winning”, that’s because the wins are randomly determined, so yeah of course everyone is equal in that right. Doesn’t make it remotely fair or balanced.

If you’re going to rank it, yep.

If you have no intention of ranking it and it’s just social play then I don’t think it really matters . . . as long as you also have gametypes that provide for the type of balanced / fair play you want. The problem only comes when the two types of play are merged, both parties end up dissatisfied.

> I still prefer on-map AA’s but this is an interesting concept nonetheless. Regardless, I’m not sure if camo and jetpack would still be balanced in loadouts, and it’s an unnecessary downside for AA’s you have to grab off the map.

I like both ways. Since most of the competitive folks feel that AAs as loadout items detract from the competition, I think that for the competitive (or ranked) games, map pickups are the better choice (after all, it’s what the folks who would play those playlists want). But since I bet AAs are here to stay - and there’s no guarantee that they will ever be implemented as map items on any game type - that a way of making them require some thought and skill to use is a reasonable alternative.

17

> Ok, except that in your scenario, it doesn’t take into account the map control becoming camping.
>
>
> You sit in your power position, while your team holds down the weapon spawn. So you’re allowed to sit there and camp to your heart’s content, and when you run out of ammo you run back to get your guaranteed to be there Sniper Rifle that you team was happy to keep control of.
>
>
> In a Random system, you might be able to get a Sniper weapon and get into a good position, but just because you call in an Ordnance doesn’t mean you’re getting another Sniper weapon. You may be getting a damage boost/overshield/pulse grenade choice, and you are not guaranteed to be able to keep sitting in your camping position sniping.
>
> Random ordnance keeps people from being able to control certain types of weapons constantly.

Good maps tend to have multiple power weapons/ups in neutral non-power positions to control, thus promoting movement around the map. If a team chooses to control one weapon with a campy playstyle they are essentially gifting the other team all other power weapons/ups, notifying them of their position and not putting any offensive pressure on the other team. In Halo 3 this tactic very rarely worked and camping almost always didn’t pay off except on very poorly designed maps such as snowbound.

Random map ordnance is just a mess. It eliminates a lot of the strategy involved in the game and results in games being won as a result of luck rather than performance. I enjoy playing a game because I as a player can influence the outcome of that game, the less potential there is for me to influence the game and the more random factors there are the less I enjoy it. I have no problem with a couple of playlists being crazy random playlists but I don’t think the core game should function that way.

18

Added polls.

19

I’m more of a classic Halo guy.

So I would like to see AA’s removed, bring back equipment if anything must be added.

And loadouts should be removed from the game. IMO, they do not belong in Halo.

20

I agree with you but I doubt 343 would ever take out any of those things so we might as well try to make them work with Halo.