Hello everyone. I’m starting a series of Polls that I’ll try to do everyday to get opinions on multiple aspects of Halo 4 (Multiplayer,Co-op,Campaign,Forge and Theater). There are multiple reasons behind this: I’m working on a pretty big Halo 5 wishlist and I also want 343 to see our opinions on the things they’ve added to Halo 4’s multiplayer and also see if we would want them back or not in future Halo titles. So please support these threads as they might allow us to have a positive impact on future Halo titles.
Today, I want to talk about Map Ordnance. I feel that, gameplay-wise, it is the biggest issue in Halo 4. There are ways Ordnance could work very well The best way to use Ordnance is the way Team Throwdown does. Map Ordnance is set on Resupply timers, there’s no randomness and everyone knows where each weapon spawn. It also handles Personal Ordnance very well (more on that in the Armor Abilities thread). I think the way Throwdown handles Ordnance is the way all playlists should because it allows for a balanced and more classic experience while being newbie-friendly by showing the location of each weapon.
What do you guys think of the current state of Ordnance?
Also, which topic would you like to see? The current list of topic is (not in order of appearance):
-Campaign
-Spartan Ops vs Firefight
-Forge
-Theater
-Armor Abilities
-Vehicles
-Loadouts/Customization
-Ranking System
-Playlist Structure
-Sandbox
-Maps
-User Interface
-Personal Ordnance
-Sprint
-Power-Ups
-Micro-transactions and DLC
-Peer to Peer vs Dedicated Servers
-Classic Halo vs Halo 4 (this will most likely be saved for the last topic)
-e-Sports support
-Instant Respawn
-Static vs Dynamic Spawns
-De-Scope vs Flinch
-Killcams
-Join in Progress
-Search Options
-Beta test
-Spectator Mode
-Bot Mode
Personally, I like the Infinity settings as a gameplay option. I don’t have a problem with it.
Sometimes, though, I don’t want to play that kind of game. I would like to play a less chaotic game. Right now, SWAT is the only other slayer option, and while it is fun, I would like a middle option: no PODs and no HUD ordnance notifications, and no AAs/tactical packages/support upgrades. Just you and your gun. I have no problem with personal loadouts, but if those were standardized, I wouldn’t mind.
I think there’s a place for POD if that’s the kind of game you want to play. I know many around here don’t like it, but there is a fanbase for it and I include myself in that fanbase.
I personally prefer if there were gameplay options rather than forcing one type of gameplay to apply to everything. Right now, the Infinity settings are too ubiquitous, but the right answer is not (IMO) to get rid of them. The better option is to provide a middle ground between Infinity and SWAT.
HUD indicators need to be removed from every aspect of the game. It dramatically affects gameplay. Not only can it show you when and where the power weapons are at any given time, you can tell when enemies pick up a power weapon, and thus, where they are on the map.
I think there should be options for both, those that like the current settings and those that want a more classic feel. In my personal opinion, I feel that only AA’s should be ordnance and power weapons should spawn in-game on the maps. We should start out with the same precision weapon (BR or DMR) and one secondary (probably a magnum). I don’t mind sprint being in Halo but we can have a few classic playlists that are sprint free.
> I think that it would be much better placed on maps in a permanent position. Even better without the HUD indicators.
I actually like the waypoint over the weapons because they help me know where the weapons are placed when I play a map for the first time. Also, they give you an idea of the respawn timers. I think they should’ve been the only addition though.
Honestly, when the game was first getting hyped with weapons dropping in, I wish the game was put out how I heard the rumors.
Basically, take Halo 3/Reach, weapon placement wise, and have it set that they drop in how things drop in now on timers.
I need BR ammo, drops in at the location it spawns when it is supposed to. I would’ve liked this. It is so hard to get ammo for some guns in this game. BR, Carbine, Suppressor, good luck getting ammo for those besides having to respawn.
Easier to know when a weapon drops in. None of this you got X points, what do you want junk.
Ordinance to me just feels weird. And I don’t want to just go back to Halo 3 or Reach as I get outclassed too many times.’
EDIT: Also, a topic I would like to cover is the Slow Down mechanic that occurs when you are getting shot at.
Makes some sense when running into the bullets. Not so much sense when being shot in the back. Shouldn’t that push me forward in a way?
If anything, I would have liked more of a stagger then a slow down.
> > I think that it would be much better placed on maps in a permanent position. Even better without the HUD indicators.
>
> I actually like the waypoint over the weapons because they help me know where the weapons are placed when I play a map for the first time. Also, they give you an idea of the respawn timers. I think they should’ve been the only addition though.
I understand the appeal for them, but I enjoy learning new maps and weapon times instead of it being pretty much telegraphed to me and everyone else. I think there is room for both though.
> My Opinion
>
> Honestly, when the game was first getting hyped with weapons dropping in, I wish the game was put out how I heard the rumors.
>
> Basically, take Halo 3/Reach, weapon placement wise, and have it set that they drop in how things drop in now on timers.
>
> I need BR ammo, drops in at the location it spawns when it is supposed to. I would’ve liked this. It is so hard to get ammo for some guns in this game. BR, Carbine, Suppressor, good luck getting ammo for those besides having to respawn.
>
> Easier to know when a weapon drops in. None of this you got X points, what do you want junk.
>
> Ordinance to me just feels weird. And I don’t want to just go back to Halo 3 or Reach as I get outclassed too many times.’
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> EDIT: Also, a topic I would like to cover is the Slow Down mechanic that occurs when you are getting shot at.
> Makes some sense when running into the bullets. Not so much sense when being shot in the back. Shouldn’t that push me forward in a way?
> If anything, I would have liked more of a stagger then a slow down.
I agree. Finding ammo for primaries is unheard of in Halo 4.
> My Opinion
>
> Honestly, when the game was first getting hyped with weapons dropping in, I wish the game was put out how I heard the rumors.
>
> Basically, take Halo 3/Reach, weapon placement wise, and have it set that they drop in how things drop in now on timers.
>
> I need BR ammo, drops in at the location it spawns when it is supposed to. I would’ve liked this. It is so hard to get ammo for some guns in this game. BR, Carbine, Suppressor, good luck getting ammo for those besides having to respawn.
>
> Easier to know when a weapon drops in. None of this you got X points, what do you want junk.
>
> Ordinance to me just feels weird. And I don’t want to just go back to Halo 3 or Reach as I get outclassed too many times.’
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> EDIT: Also, a topic I would like to cover is the Slow Down mechanic that occurs when you are getting shot at.
> Makes some sense when running into the bullets. Not so much sense when being shot in the back. Shouldn’t that push me forward in a way?
> If anything, I would have liked more of a stagger then a slow down.
Ammo refill is one of the ways I think Personal Ordnance should work instead of the way it currently is. I’ll talk about that more in the Personal Ordnance thread.
I agree that ordnance is one of the biggest flaws of Halo 4 right now, and what’s really frustrating is it could so easily be fixed.
I would rather see random ordnance eradicated from the game. It serves absolutely no one, and it only provides a random element that can actually determine the outcome of games. Very frustrating. Also, providing a literally unlearnable game mechanic detracts from depth and would seem like a very poor design principle.
I’d like to see initial ordnance respawn per legacy (power weapons @ 180 seconds, mid-tier weapons at 90 or 120 seconds). Not only is this approach fair and balanced, but it’s deep and rewarding for both players and teams alike. Further, it better enables designers to ensure a map consistently achieves desirable gameplay. How Halo 4’s designers allowed random ordnance into the game without kicking and screaming is beyond me.
Finally, I like personal ordnance, but I really dislike Team Throwdown’s treatment. Rather, to address its flaws, either ensure only lower and mid-tier rewards appear, or change the roll function to a wager function and enable players to declare their personal ordnance rewards in their loadouts (yes, exactly like COD). Then, make point requirements commensurate with the reward (e.g. to get grenades, you only need 100 points, but to get an incinerator cannon, you need 700 points).
This treatment would add depth to the currently relatively shallow system that unfairly rewards players and teams for doing nothing really at all.
Quick reminder we are talking about MAP ordnance, not personal.
I personally like a mix of the two. If you play on the Majestic DLC maps, you’ll see that the maps use a combination of the two. On monolith every 2 minutes rockets spawn in the middle, but weapons randomly appear throughout the map as the match goes on. I personally love this style of weapon pick up. It keeps things fresh, yet familiar. I can expect combat to happen in the middle, but can move freely across the map.
What I think needs to happen is have random weapon spawns work closely with player spawns/activity. Have weapons spawn away from players spawning in and away from action, that way it can create additional movement across maps.
As for the HUD I have no problem with giving players additional information. It’s not skillful to be more knowledgeable, but how you use that information.
I think map ordnance like in Team Throwdown & previous games would be fine for the upcoming Halo games. Personal Ordnance however, would have to be revamped for me to ever want see it return. I’ve seen AAs being solely used as the options for it but I think AAs & ammo for your primary & secondary would be better. It would only be obtained for a good amount of kills in Slayer gametypes & for a good amount of objective points in objective gametypes.
I would like to see SPops vs Firefight in the next thread.
> Quick reminder we are talking about MAP ordnance, not personal.
>
> I personally like a mix of the two. If you play on the Majestic DLC maps, you’ll see that the maps use a combination of the two. On monolith every 2 minutes rockets spawn in the middle, but weapons randomly appear throughout the map as the match goes on. I personally love this style of weapon pick up. It keeps things fresh, yet familiar. I can expect combat to happen in the middle, but can move freely across the map.
>
> What I think needs to happen is have random weapon spawns work closely with player spawns/activity. Have weapons spawn away from players spawning in and away from action, that way it can create additional movement across maps.
>
> As for the HUD I have no problem with giving players additional information. It’s not skillful to be more knowledgeable, but how you use that information.
Except that randomness has nothing to do in a balanced environment. One time, I was playing Inf. Slayer and a Binary Rifle spawn right in front of (literally). This should not happen because it can turn the tide of a battle based solely on luck.
> Except that randomness has nothing to do in a balanced environment. One time, I was playing Inf. Slayer and a Binary Rifle spawn right in front of (literally). This should not happen because it can turn the tide of a battle based solely on luck.
Please read over Maximus IL’s opening post on Randomness vs Skill in this thread.
As I stated I enjoyed the Random and Static combo that gives players the opportunity to go for power weapons on a regular basis, as well as find them as they spawn on the map.
If you also noticed in my post I suggested that random spawns should be matched with player spawns/activity to spawn them away from players and action.
> Please read over Maximus IL’s opening post on Randomness vs Skill in this thread.
Load of -Yoink-.
> As I stated I enjoyed the Random and Static combo that gives players the opportunity to go for power weapons on a regular basis, as well as find them as they spawn on the map.
As long as the random ordnance is confined to detonators, needlers, and other low-tier weapons it’s fine, though I don’t really see the point of it.
Things like rockets, railguns, snipers, and arguably shotguns/melees should always be on static timers.