Hey, so I don’t usually post random stuff like this but I am really bored. Anyway after watching the SDCC halo panel Panel I noticed the board kept calling the, what I would call ranking system, a “Progression System.” At first I thought nothing of it, but it sounded to me like it wasn’t natural to say “progression” but they were forced to. So anyway, are they hinting at a real ranking system?
Anyone else feel this way or am I just crazy?
Thanks for reading!
-Michillin
Ive read in different places (sorry do not know exact sources) on these forums that there are two ranks or progressions. One is a skill rank which deals with multiplayer matchmaking and matching you with similar players and the other is one similar to the one they had in reach(I think). It tracks your experience points and you level up for what you do in the game and how you help your team. Its a bit shotty, but if you browse the forums enough youll see some similar explanations. Also they are both invisible so only you can see them and no one else. There has been talk about an option that makes it visible but i think that is just tue community saying what would be good. I personally would like a ranking system similar to halo 2’s.
Its so lame that the rank that actually takes skills to develop is invisible. Makes me think this game caters to sensitive children or something.
> Its so lame that the rank that actually takes skills to develop is invisible. Makes me think this game caters to sensitive children or something.
Would you rather it cater to egotistical children?
The only purpose of a visible ranking system is for people to hold their “rank/~skill” over others. Its visibility/invisibility has no bearing on Matchmaking’s ability to put you into fair games…so it really comes down to personal preference.
Do you want to hold your rank over others?
Do you care enough to need to judge players based on some “formulated” skill number?
Do you care enough to rationalize this need to judge other people as a simple curiosity of opposing players abilities?
Maybe you don’t care at all. Maybe you care about letting your play do the talking rather than some arbitrary number.
More often than not, it you don’t care, you’re just rationalizing your mediocre skill set at the game because on some level you would feel embarrassed knowing that you can’t get past rank 35. There are sensitive children out there. Mommy wouldn’t want anyone to hurt their feelings.
It all comes down to taunting, really. Unfortunately, that’s the culture of online gaming (don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying everyone out there is an -Yoink-, just that there will always be -Yoinks!-).
Do we want to take the lighting-rod for controversy that is a visible rank out of the player’s hands?
I for one couldn’t care less about the whole debate. Halo 2’s system was flawed. Halo 3’s system was flawed. Halo Reach’s system was flawed. History doesn’t bode well for Halo 4.
If one really wants to have a visible rank, let them. If someone wants to hide it, let them. Either way, egotistical -Yoinks!-, level 35 or 50, will still harass anyone they deem inferior.
I’d be interested to know if a visible rank in Halo 4 would be a literal representational of “TrueSkill” (if TrueSkill is still the primary system used for matchmaking) as, apparently, TrueSkill claims to be able to “accurately” rank players globally - at least in general skill (which I remain extremely skeptical about).
If it’s any other arbitrarily defined formula (a category which I believe TrueSkill still falls under) then who gives a rats -Yoink- about something that can and will be manipulated.
Halo 2’s ranking system was fun. Nobody ever (as far as from my experience) really got past 40 legit, legit. And, because online console gaming was in its infancy, and Halo 2 basically pioneered the dynamic ranking system, nobody really noticed how totally -Yoinked!- up and broken the system was.
Halo 3 made great improvements, people could actually reach level 50, but because of that simple fact, anyone could reach level 50. On top of that, because the system was based on W/L, many other factors were at play - including when you first purchased and began playing the game - whether or not you played by yourself - whether or not your friends were any good - whether or not you took the game seriously - etc…
Achieving a “50” deemed you “superior” to any lesser rank (only by the egotistical children), even though your skills weren’t the thing being represented by that 50…it was your ability to win as part of a team.
So, Reach tried to fix this with the Arena Divisions and Rating system. Your Division would represent your “ability to win as part of a team” and your Rating would represent your “skill.”
Again, problems arose in that the Rating system was semi-flawed because it revolved mostly around kills - something we all know is important, but doesn’t necessarily win you every game. “The little things” a player can do also greatly impacts a game - and are also representative of a player’s skill, but they are not represented properly in the Rating formula.
The Division system was just a more complicated 1-50 system, that still suffered the same problem from the original. It really didn’t mean jack -Yoink-.
So what does Halo 4 have in store? Who know’s. My guess is it’ll probably be just as pointless as any other ranking system that’s every really existed to those that just want to play the game and the most importantly awesome thing to ever grace the Xbox’s of those egotistical children who want to measure the size of their -Yoinks!-.
Regardless, I just want the gameplay to be better than Reach’s. An visible “skill based” ranking system is a superficial product of one’s desire to be “better” than someone else, and have them know it…before you prove it to them.
I remember a time when my buddy and I would play Halo CE split-screen against each-other, and I didn’t need no stupid damn number next to our names to know that he was whoopin’ my -Yoink- with that pistol.
> Would you rather it cater to egotistical children?
1-50 with visible trueskill would be nice to see in Halo 4. I want skill to come back to the ranking system. Not the sorry excuse that reach is where high ranks are an embarrassment rather than to be feared or wanted. Halo 3’s system had its flaws due to the ban filters that were not so automatic as they are now in other games. I few other filters to ban the boosters, derankers, and host booters and the ranking system would work as it’s intended.
I find 1-50 to be a lot of fun and a cool way to see your personal improvement over the weeks, months, and years of playing Halo 3. Saying that 1-50 makes a lot of egotistical idiots is not entirely true. They had a big ego well before 1-50 and will continue to put down others. Just look at reach how people use lolarena or silly k/d to try and tell others they are bad. I laugh every time some says they are superior to all because they were 1% in arena. I don’t care in a broken game and a fail rating system like arena if they were 100% or 1% it makes no difference really to me. I’m pretty sure the whole point fo the system was not to brag but get matched with players of a similar level, but everyone has got to take it the wrong way and ruin it.
If Halo 4 has no visible trueksill they will find another way to put everyone down and be jerks. I’d like to think we can have nice things and just ignore those who try to ruin it.
Over on TheHaloCouncil someone posted that they were speaking with frank at RTX and he mentioned the skill rank will be invisible to everyone besides yourself.
If this is true I am happy with it, at least we will have something to work towards instead of nothing this will keep me/us coming back to the game and also do it’s job by matching us up with the same skilled players!
> > Its so lame that the rank that actually takes skills to develop is invisible. Makes me think this game caters to sensitive children or something.
>
> Would you rather it cater to egotistical children?
>
> The only purpose of a visible ranking system is for people to hold their “rank/~skill” over others. Its visibility/invisibility has no bearing on Matchmaking’s ability to put you into fair games…so it really comes down to personal preference.
>
> Do you want to hold your rank over others?
>
> Do you care enough to need to judge players based on some “formulated” skill number?
>
> Do you care enough to rationalize this need to judge other people as a simple curiosity of opposing players abilities?
>
> Maybe you don’t care at all. Maybe you care about letting your play do the talking rather than some arbitrary number.
>
> More often than not, it you don’t care, you’re just rationalizing your mediocre skill set at the game because on some level you would feel embarrassed knowing that you can’t get past rank 35. There are sensitive children out there. Mommy wouldn’t want anyone to hurt their feelings.
>
> It all comes down to taunting, really. Unfortunately, that’s the culture of online gaming (don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying everyone out there is an -Yoink!-, just that there will always be -Yoinks!-).
>
> Do we want to take the lighting-rod for controversy that is a visible rank out of the player’s hands?
>
> I for one couldn’t care less about the whole debate. Halo 2’s system was flawed. Halo 3’s system was flawed. Halo Reach’s system was flawed. History doesn’t bode well for Halo 4.
>
> If one really wants to have a visible rank, let them. If someone wants to hide it, let them. Either way, egotistical -Yoinks!-, level 35 or 50, will still harass anyone they deem inferior.
>
> I’d be interested to know if a visible rank in Halo 4 would be a literal representational of “TrueSkill” (if TrueSkill is still the primary system used for matchmaking) as, apparently, TrueSkill claims to be able to “accurately” rank players globally - at least in general skill (which I remain extremely skeptical about).
>
> If it’s any other arbitrarily defined formula (a category which I believe TrueSkill still falls under) then who gives a rats -Yoink!- about something that can and will be manipulated.
>
> Halo 2’s ranking system was fun. Nobody ever (as far as from my experience) really got past 40 legit, legit. And, because online console gaming was in its infancy, and Halo 2 basically pioneered the dynamic ranking system, nobody really noticed how totally -Yoinked!- up and broken the system was.
>
> Halo 3 made great improvements, people could actually reach level 50, but because of that simple fact, anyone could reach level 50. On top of that, because the system was based on W/L, many other factors were at play - including when you first purchased and began playing the game - whether or not you played by yourself - whether or not your friends were any good - whether or not you took the game seriously - etc…
>
> Achieving a “50” deemed you “superior” to any lesser rank (only by the egotistical children), even though your skills weren’t the thing being represented by that 50…it was your ability to win as part of a team.
>
> So, Reach tried to fix this with the Arena Divisions and Rating system. Your Division would represent your “ability to win as part of a team” and your Rating would represent your “skill.”
>
> Again, problems arose in that the Rating system was semi-flawed because it revolved mostly around kills - something we all know is important, but doesn’t necessarily win you every game. “The little things” a player can do also greatly impacts a game - and are also representative of a player’s skill, but they are not represented properly in the Rating formula.
>
> The Division system was just a more complicated 1-50 system, that still suffered the same problem from the original. It really didn’t mean jack Yoink!.
>
> So what does Halo 4 have in store? Who know’s. My guess is it’ll probably be just as pointless as any other ranking system that’s every really existed to those that just want to play the game and the most importantly awesome thing to ever grace the Xbox’s of those egotistical children who want to measure the size of their -Yoinks!-.
>
> Regardless, I just want the gameplay to be better than Reach’s. An visible “skill based” ranking system is a superficial product of one’s desire to be “better” than someone else, and have them know it…before you prove it to them.
>
> I remember a time when my buddy and I would play Halo CE split-screen against each-other, and I didn’t need no stupid damn number next to our names to know that he was whoopin’ my -Yoink!- with that pistol.
Very well said… I agree 100%
Best Win win for everyone is MAKE IT OPTIONAL TO SHOW YOUR RANK TO OTHERS maybe even have different settings like / FRIENDS LIST ONLY / Teammates / Just Me
Then the people that want to show it can and, the people that don’t want to show it don’t have to .
If The Ranking system Rank is ONLY going to be VISIBLE to you then so should the PROGRESSION Ranking system .
Show both or show none
Or better yet make it an option
I think Progression System refers to the process of unlocking loadout and cosmetic elements for your multiplayer career. It’s arguably separate (albiet works parallel) to the ranking system. The global one is going to be XP based like most shooters.
The problem with 1-50 is that it’s exploitable and sellable.
If they want to bring it back, it needs changed. For starters, don’t make it what gets searched one. Visible 1-50 should be for display only. Keep the invisible trueskill system working as well to search for players. that makes it harder for derankers to effectively guage how well their attempts are working. Second, make it so that it only counts the last 100 days or so. That makes the selling of accounts effectively pointless as well.
I think they’ve also said its going to be self-viewable as well.
> Its so lame that the rank that actually takes skills to develop is invisible. Makes me think this game caters to sensitive children or something.
You’re forgetting the important part. It doesn’t matter if it’s a visible rank. As long as that rank matches you up with people that have a similar one to yours, we’re golden. It shouldn’t be as strict as Halo 3’s, but it shouldnt be as generousas Reach’s either. At least it’s visible to yourself, and you an see it as something that you can strive for on a personal lvl.
> Its so lame that the rank that actually takes skills to develop is invisible.
Very lame indeed. :[
> Makes me think this game caters to sensitive children or something.
Generally just for people who are sensitive about their rank, and can’t really face someone else being shown as better than them. This is the kind of direction the gaming market is taking these days.
To be honest, if 343 really deem this “invisible rank” as necessary then at least put an option for those who aren’t afraid to show theirs.
This is probably an over-complicated solution, but here’s a potential solution to provide a VSR with little griefing:
Skill Ranks are shown to you and people in your party. When you search for a match and find one, you can see in the pre-game lobby the current ranks of everyone in the match. Once the game begins, they become hidden again throughout the duration of the match, then in the post-game lobby you can see what the ranks were before the changes from this match affect their rank. Ranks disappear in the Post-Game Carnage Report, so once they leave they take their number with them. Ranks do not appear on any service records or profiles anywhere.
So the only way to see the rank of anyone else is to get matched with or against them. This will allow people to see (if they’ve earned their rank legit) at a glance what people might be able to bring to the table, allows you to see where you are stacking up against other players of similar skill to you, and prevents you from going back and telling that 50 that he sucks for a 50.
That’s my 2 cents. If an option to show (for those brave enough) isn’t going to be available, then only show the ranks when it’s relevant to what’s going on. Other than that, they don’t need to be shown at all. Personally, I’d like it if they were shown, but it’s really not necessary in the long run.
It is immature for someone to put someone down because you are better than them in a video game but it is also immature to whine about it when someone is better than you. If your on a game just to have fun you shouldn’t care what others say to you that take the game serious. If they are really bothering you then simply mute them is that so hard and if the send you messages delete them simple as that but please don’t whine.
> > Its so lame that the rank that actually takes skills to develop is invisible.
>
> Very lame indeed. :[
>
>
>
> > Makes me think this game caters to sensitive children or something.
>
> Generally just for people who are sensitive about their rank, and can’t really face someone else being shown as better than them. This is the kind of direction the gaming market is taking these days.
All the matches will still be made by skill, if the system works correctly.
A visible ranking system does nothing but give you bragging rights, which aren’t neccesary.
If you want to know how good someone is, that isn’t decided by the number next to their gamertag, it is decided by their skill in the game. You’ll know they’re good if they beat you or outscore you. You’ll know they’re bad if they get crushed.
If it matters so much, you can start flame wars and boast your rank over your mic.
I hope they can find a good mix between progression and actual skill ranking. Have the progression system as the overall rank, so that anyone can achieve any rank regardless of what they play, but have a section of matchmaking much like ranked in H3 with visible skill rankings. With the progression system no one would have to play ranked, like some players felt they had to in H3 to change their overall rank.
> A visible ranking system does nothing but give you bragging rights, which aren’t neccesary.
Which aren’t necessary to you, you mean.
The reason ranked matches were as competitive as they were was due to the visibility of skill ranking; winning or losing became more important because the effect either result had on your rank, and that result could be seen by everyone. Winning gave you more to brag about and gave a sense of skill-related accomplishment and losing took away your bragging rights. This, despite any problems the ranking system had, kept many people playing and brought enjoyment to a lot of players. This obviously wouldn’t happen with skill ranks hidden, with competitiveness almost definitely decreasing.
What you consider the most appropriate way for players to measure other player’s skill is awfully irrelevant to the issue of hidden skill ranking.
For me its not so important as to whether or not we have a visible ranking system, but a good one. Now, I’m not bragging but I’m an above average Halo player. Jump into any Reach playlist and I would win the first 3 games easy. Probably the next 2 too. But after I play about 5 games the matching gets messy. One game I win really easily. The next was a close tie. The next 2 I lose by 50%. The other day I lost 25-3 in double team, way after I was supposed to be matched properly. In my opinion, the most important thing is to get a system where you are matched with people of the same rank (experience). Then, it wouldn’t matter if it was visible system, because everyone you play would have the same rank anyway.
I think only you being able to see it is great, less kids buying their 50 with their moms credit card.
> A visible ranking system does nothing but give you bragging rights, which aren’t neccesary.
Ranks of any kind aren’t “necessary”. Matchmaking isn’t necessary. The production of Halo 4 isn’t necessary. A stupid statement such as “a visible ranking system does nothing but give you bragging rights, which aren’t neccesary” isn’t necessary.
> If you want to know how good someone is, that isn’t decided by the number next to their gamertag, it is decided by their skill in the game. You’ll know they’re good if they beat you or outscore you. You’ll know they’re bad if they get crushed.
So a bronze-league player in StarCraft II can play a Grand Master player?
No.
A player in ~2700 ELO in League of Legends can play a ~1000 ELO player?
No.
This is where rank becomes useful in determining who the better player is, and something a progression-style system fails at.
> If it matters so much, you can start flame wars and boast your rank over your mic.
I wouldn’t do this personally, but I’m sure a lot of people would. In fact, it makes boasting about your rank much more prominent since they can’t see it in the first place.
So, in the end, have “invisible ranks” really stopped the flow of boasting, insults and flaming?
No.
> To be honest, if 343 really deem this “invisible rank” as necessary then at least put an option for those who aren’t afraid to show theirs.
That’s actually not a bad idea…