Halo 4 Postmortem: A Lesson for ALL

“Here in the aftermath, on the verge of extinction, where fear finds purchase, only a few will stand fast, defiant to the end.”

That quote comes from the Defiant Map Pack trailer for Halo: Reach and to me it describes the forums at this moment in time. It should not be this way, but it is. On one side, people who hate 343i unconditionally not matter what. On another, people who love 343i no matter what. And in the middle between these two extremes, people who reside in the center unsure what to think. 343i stands off to the side unsure of what to do with the community they have been given.

The most recent match that started this new wild fire of controversy was, as you all are probably aware of now, the GDC panel with Josh Holmes. I saw the panel, I heard the controversial remarks about multiplayer and I was pissed. Yet now that I have looked back and examined everything that has occurred since the wee hours of last night and spilled over today, I have come to one conclusion: this was a massive -Yoink-.

On the community side, we descended into the frenzy we usually go into. I won’t deny I was part of that frenzy, but I realize it was the worst way to handle this. The one big topic that could’ve been the catalyst for change and maybe an official response from 343i became a pool of ignorance and insults and ended into failure. AS IT SHOULD’VE WITH THE WAY THE COMMUNITY ACTED. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saint on this forums, but even I realize that the mods acted in the right, but by the same token it has sparked a whole new problem. Now we have flames towards the mods for doing their jobs on top of the remnants of flames about the GDC panel.

Because of this, I believe we as a community need to better evaluate how we go about feedback, ONE BOTH SIDES. Yes, the fanbase does have the habit of complaining about things, even trivial things at times. Yet, that is not an excuse to wipe away ALL complaining as just bitter, self-entitlement and ignorance. What Halo needs now more than ever is constructive feedback.

To 343i, well I may not be qualified to suggest anything to you guys, but if there is one thing I know about gaming communities it is that controversy made by developers I never a good thing. Just look at Hammerpoint Interactive and their WarZ game and the massive controversy that created. An unfinished game was released on the market with missing features and instead of woning up to it, for the longest time one of the executive producers and presence on tgeir forums blamed the community by saying they “misread” the Steam page where the games features were listed, they didn’t, and that over 93% of people liked the game, which wasn’t true, and that only trolls and idiots hated the game, which they weren’t. Needless to say they lost a lot of support fairly quickly and eventually apologized for letting their egos get the best of them and then offered refunds.

I will admit, it was refreshing to hear you voice the many complaints I had about the story, but I can see the community backlash against the multiplayer portion. The Halo community is a very sensitive and easily startled one. It has always been this way, even back on Bungie.net. That said, I don’t think you know the community quite that well. Judging by the reactions from Jessica Shea’s sarcastic remarks about the DMR complaints at PAX to Josh Holmes claims of incorporating all the community feedback into Halo 4, I don’t find myself surprised the community erupted. Perhaps it was hyperbolic, but the reason the jokes didn’t sit well, in my opinion, is that you guys haven’t really solidified yourselves as a presence. That isn’t to say you’ve tried though and many appreciate the effort. But when you know the community has issues they want fixed, avoiding them with humor is probably not the best route…at least not yet.

Better community interaction, I think, is the right way to go. BS Angel and rukizzel can only do so much. I know Twitter is a viable option, but a more personal touch here would likely lead to more acceptance of you being a developer who listens to the fanbase. Delivering Forge Island and an X was a good, is perhaps a bit flawed with the latter, step. Now we just want to interact and be an integral part of Halo. It’s like the book Childhood’s End, you are the Overlords and we know you are up there in your ships, but we don’t really KNOW you.

TL;DR: The community needs to improve how they deliver feedback and react to controversy while 343i needs to improve how they gather and interpret said feedback.

Thanks for reading.

Agreed. It’s better for us as a community to takes things a little bit more seriously and provide a more professional view on whats going on rather than just ranting.

Are some of us annoyed? Yes, including me. But I’m not going to make a hate thread because of it.

343 also needs to take this feedback very seriously and too be honest, they have been doing a good job recently.

We both need to step up out game if we want Halo to be amazing again.

These threads are funny. It’s just a game guys. Every Halo game is going to be different because the devs are smart and want to try new things instead of copy/pasting the same crap over and over again. Deal with it.

> These threads are funny. It’s just a game guys. Every Halo game is going to be different because the devs are smart and want to try new things instead of copy/pasting the same crap over and over again. Deal with it.

For me, Halo has always been more than just a video-game. It was a part of a lifestyle.

Of course every Halo game will be different, but 343 is changing too much for the sake of change and to prove that they are capable of doing things differently. If something works, it is nice to experiment and try something new to replace it, but that does not necessarily mean you should have to get rid of it.

343 did a little bit too much of experimenting for their first game, IMO.

Highly agree with you. The community needs to give feedback in a more professional way instead of whining around meanwhile, 343i should be listening to the community as a whole and cater the game to the whole Halo community not only the casual halo players or the hardcore or the in between.

Well written and this is a step in the right direction WITHOUT the constant harrassing and flaming concerning ANYTHING 343 does. Imagine you were at their position and have to deal with a community that just tears apart every single thing you do by unleashing one -Yoink!-storm after another (just look at some of the Forge Island threads, complaining about the “boring” and flat landscape in a FREE map with new elements like the ever-wanted trees, etc.).

And no, I´m not the “343-Defense-Force” as some may suggest, even I think that some things are at least questionable (“Disabled Spartan Picture”) and that 343 did make mistakes, but remember, its their first Halo game to date and an immense pressure is upon their shoulders. They need to make money / getting sales AND they need to satisfy a very “special” and sometimes aggressive community.

Again sir, well written and I hope this will wake up some of the always negative complainers and stop some of the aggressive posts :slight_smile:

> “Here in the aftermath, on the verge of extinction, where fear finds purchase, only a few will stand fast, defiant to the end.”
>
> That quote comes from the Defiant Map Pack trailer for Halo: Reach and to me it describes the forums at this moment in time. It should not be this way, but it is. On one side, people who hate 343i unconditionally not matter what. On another, people who love 343i no matter what. And in the middle between these two extremes, people who reside in the center unsure what to think. 343i stands off to the side unsure of what to do with the community they have been given.
>
> The most recent match that started this new wild fire of controversy was, as you all are probably aware of now, the GDC panel with Josh Holmes. I saw the panel, I heard the controversial remarks about multiplayer and I was pissed. Yet now that I have looked back and examined everything that has occurred since the wee hours of last night and spilled over today, I have come to one conclusion: this was a massive -Yoink!-.
>
> On the community side, we descended into the frenzy we usually go into. I won’t deny I was part of that frenzy, but I realize it was the worst way to handle this. The one big topic that could’ve been the catalyst for change and maybe an official response from 343i became a pool of ignorance and insults and ended into failure. AS IT SHOULD’VE WITH THE WAY THE COMMUNITY ACTED. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saint on this forums, but even I realize that the mods acted in the right, but by the same token it has sparked a whole new problem. Now we have flames towards the mods for doing their jobs on top of the remnants of flames about the GDC panel.
>
> Because of this, I believe we as a community need to better evaluate how we go about feedback, ONE BOTH SIDES. Yes, the fanbase does have the habit of complaining about things, even trivial things at times. Yet, that is not an excuse to wipe away ALL complaining as just bitter, self-entitlement and ignorance. What Halo needs now more than ever is constructive feedback.
>
> To 343i, well I may not be qualified to suggest anything to you guys, but if there is one thing I know about gaming communities it is that controversy made by developers I never a good thing. Just look at Hammerpoint Interactive and their WarZ game and the massive controversy that created. An unfinished game was released on the market with missing features and instead of woning up to it, for the longest time one of the executive producers and presence on tgeir forums blamed the community by saying they “misread” the Steam page where the games features were listed, they didn’t, and that over 93% of people liked the game, which wasn’t true, and that only trolls and idiots hated the game, which they weren’t. Needless to say they lost a lot of support fairly quickly and eventually apologized for letting their egos get the best of them and then offered refunds.
>
> I will admit, it was refreshing to hear you voice the many complaints I had about the story, but I can see the community backlash against the multiplayer portion. The Halo community is a very sensitive and easily startled one. It has always been this way, even back on Bungie.net. That said, I don’t think you know the community quite that well. Judging by the reactions from Jessica Shea’s sarcastic remarks about the DMR complaints at PAX to Josh Holmes claims of incorporating all the community feedback into Halo 4, I don’t find myself surprised the community erupted. Perhaps it was hyperbolic, but the reason the jokes didn’t sit well, in my opinion, is that you guys haven’t really solidified yourselves as a presence. That isn’t to say you’ve tried though and many appreciate the effort. But when you know the community has issues they want fixed, avoiding them with humor is probably not the best route…at least not yet.
>
> Better community interaction, I think, is the right way to go. BS Angel and rukizzel can only do so much. I know Twitter is a viable option, but a more personal touch here would likely lead to more acceptance of you being a developer who listens to the fanbase. Delivering Forge Island and an X was a good, is perhaps a bit flawed with the latter, step. Now we just want to interact and be an integral part of Halo. It’s like the book Childhood’s End, you are the Overlords and we know you are up there in your ships, but we don’t really KNOW you.
>
> TL;DR: The community needs to improve how they deliver feedback and react to controversy while 343i needs to improve how they gather and interpret said feedback.
>
> Thanks for reading.

I wish I could give you a jar of cookies for this post.

Remember, we have a fickle community with Conservatives and Radicals left and right. I don’t think they would agree to being mature, they’ll probably stick with flaming, threatening, and bashing 343.

I, for one, would think this would be a better place if everyone made a well constructed post in an easy to read paragraph instead of appealing to emotion and adding fuel to the fire.

I agree,on one hand,343 might need to ease up a little bit and maybe take some of the feed back in consideration,but on another hand,they arn’t gonna listein to those who are gonna give a straight up rant about issues and send straight up hatful things in another case.

if you want them to take things into consideration you have to be constructive IE no 343 sucks threads etc. no matter how angry you get,cause it’ll just make them tune you out,being a little more constructive can help them change things if it’s that bad.

> I’m not a saint on these forums

Yes you are.

Excuse each and every one of you…
Various members of this Halo community, and others, HAVE provided “professional” and “beneficial” feedback in an appropriate manner long before Halo Waypoint opened its doors. In spite of recent events, some of us even continue to do so to this very day. The continued ignorance and sarcasm displayed by 343 Industries, at the recent GDC panel, is insulting to the community and franchise as a whole. It astonishes me that various consumers will complacently accept their behavior.

I won’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve done my part to try and improve the state of an entertainment product I supported for well over 10 years. I’ll be -Yoink!- if I support a developer that feigns acknowledgement or simply brushes aside issues with their product. My line has been crossed, yet I remain professional. What will 343 Industries do?

-Always Hope

> It astonishes me that various consumers will complacently accept their behavior.

Which I why I said they should be more responsive to the community, right? What happened at GDC was a misstep, or as I put it a -Yoink-. (Rhymes with flustercuck).

> > I’m not a saint on these forums
>
> Yes you are.

Oh, trust me, Cobra isn’t a saint, but he knows how to compose himself.

Cobra, I enjoyed your post, even tho I skimmed over it.

the problem with alot of the so called complain threads is that they are almost entirely made up of:

“CHANGE EVERYTHING BACK YOU -Yoink-!”

Which is what makes this forum so toxic lately.

But I agree, they need a Community Rep who actually responds in forum on a regular basis.

You can’t expect normal reactions to something like ruining your favourite videogame series. That’s like if some guy takes a huge hammer and destroys your car. Would you react “normal” to that? No, of course not.

The only one who has something to learn, is 343i. The fans had high hopes after the “Fail of Reach”. And 343i basically did nothing, except for downgrading the game on numerous aspects (vehicles, theater, maps, forge, custom settings, missing classic gametypes etc.) and only fixed the obvious things Reach had (Armor Lock, Bloom, overpowered grenades). So how long has the community to wait until 343i realizes what has to be done and what have should been done with Halo 4?

343i had ALL THE TIME OF THE WORLD to look at Reach and learn from it. And they IGNORED the community for the sake of casual gaming.

At this point, there isn’t much that 343 can do to salvage their reputation. They need to come out with a formal apology.

> You can’t expect normal reactions to something like ruining your favourite videogame series. That’s like if some guy takes a huge hammer and destroys your car. Would you react “normal” to that? No, of course not.

Well no, not on the internet. I refer to John Gabriel’s Greater Internet Douchbag Theory (revised)

Normal Person + Anominity + Audience - Consequences = Douchbag

Thank you Cobra, that was a beautifully written post and is the kind of feedback and self assessment this community sorely needs.

People were offended and some things were taken out of context, but now that we have blown off some heat lets start to move on. I feel that over the last few weeks things with the community, 343i, and Halo 4 have really started to improve. I’d hate for that to be ruined over this.

I think that there is a better chance of getting a re-skinned Halo 2/3 then there is of this community acting in a civilized manner. The past few days is more than enough proof of that for me, with “conspiracy” threads for why Forge Island is free, complaints and hatred about the “x” before it was even implemented, and now the pure hatred and flaming that arose from GDC and is now being directed towards the mods.

However I still think that as a community we need to start a thread detailing what we want to see and not see in Halo 5. We also need to make sure that any thread like this or one that tries to reach 343i is posted in multiple places besides just here on Waypoint. This way we can say we tried to get them to listen and see if they truly listen or just ignore us. The one caveat of this tho is that it would have to be done in a civilized, mature, and relatively calm manner.

> However I still think that as a community we need to start a thread detailing what we want to see and not see in Halo 5. We also need to make sure that any thread like this or one that tries to reach 343i is posted in multiple places besides just here on Waypoint. This way we can say we tried to get them to listen and see if they truly listen or just ignore us. The one caveat of this tho is that it would have to be done in a civilized, mature, and relatively calm manner.

I believe something like that is being done in the General Discussion Forum, the unofficial Halo 5 forum at this point. It is a good sign.