Nevermind I changed my mind. Halo 4 should reward skill, players should be able to turn any fight around. Therefor the game relies on, who is the better player, rather than which player shot first. Halo 4 should have the same balance as Halo CE, where the 3sk pistol took incredible amount of kill to use, however if you possesed that skill you can turn around any fight with klutch 3 shots.
Thanks to in the Krutch for explaining and changing my views of what true balance is.
No you don’t get it.
Halo CE’s weapons were unbalanced but the GAME was balanced as a whole.
If you go out to balance the weapons against eachother you will get a boring game that is unbalanced by other factors.
People seem to focus so much on the guns themselves being balanced rather than weapon placement, movement mechanics and vehicles.
Sorry, you don’t understand balance.
343 should look to Halo CE’s balance if they want Halo 4 to be good. A weapon’s potential effectiveness should be determined by how difficult it is to use a weapon, e.g. the sniper rifle, CE pistol, etc.
> No you don’t get it.
>
> Halo CE’s weapons were unbalanced but the GAME was balanced as a whole.
>
> If you go out to balance the weapons against eachother you will get a boring game that is unbalanced by other factors.
>
> People seem to focus so much on the guns themselves being balanced rather than weapon placement, movement mechanics and vehicles.
Oh and btw my Idea of balance is,
Higher the skill the required the bigger the reward.
So what you are saying is you want the BR to lose to the Assault Rifle at close Range even though the Skill gap between the weapon are miles apart? yet you want the less skilled ( if any skilled ) weapon want to be the easy victor?
I’m sorry but -Yoink-.
( PS: I don’t play MLG playlists nor do i play anything MLG in anyway, I have just been playing Halo since 01 )
> Sorry, you don’t understand balance.
>
> 343 should look to Halo CE’s balance if they want Halo 4 to be good. A weapon’s potential effectiveness should be determined by how difficult it is to use a weapon, e.g. the sniper rifle, CE pistol, etc.
No offense but your letting nostalgia get the better of you.
CE wasnt in ANY WAY BALANCED it was FUN but not BALANCED
The pistol was amazingly OVERPOWERED, 3-shot kill anywhere on the map and it wasnt hard at all to use
> > No you don’t get it.
> >
> > Halo CE’s weapons were unbalanced but the GAME was balanced as a whole.
> >
> > If you go out to balance the weapons against eachother you will get a boring game that is unbalanced by other factors.
> >
> > People seem to focus so much on the guns themselves being balanced rather than weapon placement, movement mechanics and vehicles.
>
> Oh and btw my Idea of balance is,
>
> Higher the skill the required the bigger the reward.
>
> So what you are saying is you want the BR to lose to the Assault Rifle at close Range even though the Skill gap between the weapon are miles apart? yet you want the less skilled ( if any skilled ) weapon want to be the easy victor?
>
> I’m sorry but -Yoink-.
>
> ( PS: I don’t play MLG playlists nor do i play anything MLG in anyway, I have just been playing Halo since 01 )
ANYONE Could get used to the BR in a couple of months, and what your suggesting is that it should be the all around amazing gun that it was in Halo 3, and that is not BALANCE
what your suggesting is that we return to halo 3 where the AR is useless to the BR in EVERY WAY
Aiming and shooting doesnt offer much of a skill gap, which is why MANY people think that the BR in halo 3 was overpowered and the game balanced tipped off.
What im suggesting is that the Ar should have some use and EVERY WEAPON be usefull and fill its niche
OP I agree with that the game needs balance but i disagree with how you implimented it on some ideas.
IMO SMGs should do double AR damage in CQB but be beat by an AR at a range range. They would be as rare as the shotgun. I think reach got the magnum right minues the bloom but it should clearly beat the BR in CQB be a tossup in mid and lose at a range. The BR should be a 4sk single shot weapon with a capped ROF.
> > Sorry, you don’t understand balance.
> >
> > 343 should look to Halo CE’s balance if they want Halo 4 to be good. A weapon’s potential effectiveness should be determined by how difficult it is to use a weapon, e.g. the sniper rifle, CE pistol, etc.
>
> No offense but your letting nostalgia get the better of you.
>
> CE wasnt in ANY WAY BALANCED it was FUN but not BALANCED
>
> The pistol was amazingly OVERPOWERED, 3-shot kill anywhere on the map and it wasnt hard at all to use
Yeah bruv cuz u 3sk’d all the time…
I just no scope people all the time in Reach and go 49 - 0 cos The sciper is 100% from the hip so…
Oh yeah and I’m santa claus so…
We need niche weapons (AR, PR, PP, etc.) and atleast one utility weapon (BR, DMR, Magnum).
This is how Halo has always been and this is what Reach tried to change. The utility weapon should be able to combat almost all of the niche weapons about evenly, with the niche weapons having very few advantages against the the utility weapons in their respective niches.
Halo CE had the best weapon balance because of this system.
> > Sorry, you don’t understand balance.
> >
> > 343 should look to Halo CE’s balance if they want Halo 4 to be good. A weapon’s potential effectiveness should be determined by how difficult it is to use a weapon, e.g. the sniper rifle, CE pistol, etc.
>
> No offense but your letting nostalgia get the better of you.
>
> CE wasnt in ANY WAY BALANCED it was FUN but not BALANCED
>
> The pistol was amazingly OVERPOWERED, 3-shot kill anywhere on the map and it wasnt hard at all to use
No, you’re wrong.
3 shot kills were really difficult and rare, even the top pros wouldn’t be getting them too often. To add to that, they were even harder the longer the shot was because leading it was so much harder. If you really think it wasn’t hard to use at all you need to do a quick reality check.
Also, the other weapons were powerful as well. It’s not like there was the CE pistol and then everything else was weak as -Yoink- like in Reach. It would take a lot of skill to outgun an AR at close range with a pistol, but the point was that if you were good it was possible. That’s why CE is more fun than Reach, it’s not a game of rock paper scissors.
Clovenwolf, it sounds like you’re god at Halo. I’d love to see your stats, since you’re probably a 50 in MLG with a 4.0 K/D. /s
I agree with the two posts above me but I still disagree with the fact that an assault rifle should lose to a pistol in anything but CQC.
I’m often bothered when I kill someone with my pistol at a medium range against someone using an AR. It’s just one of those little things that bother me, I like realism. Not balance over realism, but at least enough to know whats useful in certain situations based on real life.
I think that instead of bloom 343 should include actual recoil, like the SMG’s had in Halo’s 2 or 3, or that the pistol had in CE. The recoil system worked as far as I was concerned.
So, I enjoyed the fact that I could 3 shot someone with the pistol from a multitude of ranges, but I hate the fact that I am able to do this with a pistol. I would personally keep Halo 3’s assault rifle reticle, make sure all bullets dont leave the outside boundry of its reticle, give it a higher RoF and give it a kick, not some lines going in a direction to signify bullet spread, but actual kick. enough to control if your a veteran of the game, and enough to throw you off if your not used to it.
Of course I’m not expressing what the community wants in what I just said, I am expressing what I want.
> > > No you don’t get it.
> > >
> > > Halo CE’s weapons were unbalanced but the GAME was balanced as a whole.
> > >
> > > If you go out to balance the weapons against eachother you will get a boring game that is unbalanced by other factors.
> > >
> > > People seem to focus so much on the guns themselves being balanced rather than weapon placement, movement mechanics and vehicles.
> >
> > Oh and btw my Idea of balance is,
> >
> > Higher the skill the required the bigger the reward.
> >
> > So what you are saying is you want the BR to lose to the Assault Rifle at close Range even though the Skill gap between the weapon are miles apart? yet you want the less skilled ( if any skilled ) weapon want to be the easy victor?
> >
> > I’m sorry but -Yoink-.
> >
> > ( PS: I don’t play MLG playlists nor do i play anything MLG in anyway, I have just been playing Halo since 01 )
>
>
>
> ANYONE Could get used to the BR in a couple of months, and what your suggesting is that it should be the all around amazing gun that it was in Halo 3, and that is not BALANCE
>
>
>
> what your suggesting is that we return to halo 3 where the AR is useless to the BR in EVERY WAY
>
> Aiming and shooting doesnt offer much of a skill gap, which is why MANY people think that the BR in halo 3 was overpowered and the game balanced tipped off.
>
> What im suggesting is that the Ar should have some use and EVERY WEAPON be usefull and fill its niche
I’m sorry but the more harder the weapon is to master then the greater the rewards should for mastering it.
So me just jumping onto a halo game for the first time ever into multiplayer then pwning a guy who has been playing for years with my full auto and him trying to use a skill based precision weapon is balance?
Your mind has been twisted by the trailers of video games boy.
People say battlefield is a very balanced game, I disagree since the majority of people always use a Fully automatic weapon, that takes low skill to use, effective at all ranges and outshines other weapons in their own niche.
Developers use the word " balance " to lure in new people at the thought that they can pick up any weapon and have the chance at owning with it.
> > > Sorry, you don’t understand balance.
> > >
> > > 343 should look to Halo CE’s balance if they want Halo 4 to be good. A weapon’s potential effectiveness should be determined by how difficult it is to use a weapon, e.g. the sniper rifle, CE pistol, etc.
> >
> > No offense but your letting nostalgia get the better of you.
> >
> > CE wasnt in ANY WAY BALANCED it was FUN but not BALANCED
> >
> > The pistol was amazingly OVERPOWERED, 3-shot kill anywhere on the map and it wasnt hard at all to use
>
> No, you’re wrong.
>
> 3 shot kills were really difficult and rare, even the top pros wouldn’t be getting them too often. To add to that, they were even harder the longer the shot was because leading it was so much harder. If you really think it wasn’t hard to use at all you need to do a quick reality check.
>
> Also, the other weapons were powerful as well. It’s not like there was the CE pistol and then everything else was weak as Yoink! like in Reach. It would take a lot of skill to outgun an AR at close range with a pistol, but the point was that if you were good it was possible. That’s why CE is more fun than Reach, it’s not a game of rock paper scissors.
>
> Clovenwolf, it sounds like you’re god at Halo. I’d love to see your stats, since you’re probably a 50 in MLG with a 4.0 K/D. /s
lol no way in hell am i god in halo
i see your point about leading shot (forgot about the concept of hitscan) however since Halo CE was not exposed to Xbox Live we cannot say this is balanced keeping Online play on the Xbox in mind. This is the same reason Ce’s multiplayer wasnt remade in the Anniversary.
> > > > No you don’t get it.
> > > >
> > > > Halo CE’s weapons were unbalanced but the GAME was balanced as a whole.
> > > >
> > > > If you go out to balance the weapons against eachother you will get a boring game that is unbalanced by other factors.
> > > >
> > > > People seem to focus so much on the guns themselves being balanced rather than weapon placement, movement mechanics and vehicles.
> > >
> > > Oh and btw my Idea of balance is,
> > >
> > > Higher the skill the required the bigger the reward.
> > >
> > > So what you are saying is you want the BR to lose to the Assault Rifle at close Range even though the Skill gap between the weapon are miles apart? yet you want the less skilled ( if any skilled ) weapon want to be the easy victor?
> > >
> > > I’m sorry but -Yoink-.
> > >
> > > ( PS: I don’t play MLG playlists nor do i play anything MLG in anyway, I have just been playing Halo since 01 )
> >
> >
> >
> > ANYONE Could get used to the BR in a couple of months, and what your suggesting is that it should be the all around amazing gun that it was in Halo 3, and that is not BALANCE
> >
> >
> >
> > what your suggesting is that we return to halo 3 where the AR is useless to the BR in EVERY WAY
> >
> > Aiming and shooting doesnt offer much of a skill gap, which is why MANY people think that the BR in halo 3 was overpowered and the game balanced tipped off.
> >
> > What im suggesting is that the Ar should have some use and EVERY WEAPON be usefull and fill its niche
>
> I’m sorry but the more harder the weapon is to master then the greater the rewards should for mastering it.
>
> So me just jumping onto a halo game for the first time ever into multiplayer then pwning a guy who has been playing for years with my full auto and him trying to use a skill based precision weapon is balance?
>
> Your mind has been twisted by the trailers of video games boy.
>
> People say battlefield is a very balanced game, I disagree since the majority of people always use a Fully automatic weapon, that takes low skill to use, effective at all ranges and outshines other weapons in their own niche.
>
> Developers use the word " balance " to lure in new people at the thought that they can pick up any weapon and have the chance at owning with it.
I never said we should outplay the BR with the Ar at ANY RANGE; only in CQC should we be able to beat the BR, this way the BR isnt the all powerful gun it was in Halo 3 and the Ar can be useful again. You keep talking about skill but a skilled player would still be able to throw a well placed nade and one shot the person using the AR.
> > > > No you don’t get it.
> > > >
> > > > Halo CE’s weapons were unbalanced but the GAME was balanced as a whole.
> > > >
> > > > If you go out to balance the weapons against eachother you will get a boring game that is unbalanced by other factors.
> > > >
> > > > People seem to focus so much on the guns themselves being balanced rather than weapon placement, movement mechanics and vehicles.
> > >
> > > Oh and btw my Idea of balance is,
> > >
> > > Higher the skill the required the bigger the reward.
> > >
> > > So what you are saying is you want the BR to lose to the Assault Rifle at close Range even though the Skill gap between the weapon are miles apart? yet you want the less skilled ( if any skilled ) weapon want to be the easy victor?
> > >
> > > I’m sorry but -Yoink-.
> > >
> > > ( PS: I don’t play MLG playlists nor do i play anything MLG in anyway, I have just been playing Halo since 01 )
> >
> >
> >
> > ANYONE Could get used to the BR in a couple of months, and what your suggesting is that it should be the all around amazing gun that it was in Halo 3, and that is not BALANCE
> >
> >
> >
> > what your suggesting is that we return to halo 3 where the AR is useless to the BR in EVERY WAY
> >
> > Aiming and shooting doesnt offer much of a skill gap, which is why MANY people think that the BR in halo 3 was overpowered and the game balanced tipped off.
> >
> > What im suggesting is that the Ar should have some use and EVERY WEAPON be usefull and fill its niche
>
> I’m sorry but the more harder the weapon is to master then the greater the rewards should for mastering it.
>
> So me just jumping onto a halo game for the first time ever into multiplayer then pwning a guy who has been playing for years with my full auto and him trying to use a skill based precision weapon is balance?
>
> Your mind has been twisted by the trailers of video games boy.
>
> People say battlefield is a very balanced game, I disagree since the majority of people always use a Fully automatic weapon, that takes low skill to use, effective at all ranges and outshines other weapons in their own niche.
>
> Developers use the word " balance " to lure in new people at the thought that they can pick up any weapon and have the chance at owning with it.
I never said we should outplay the BR with the Ar at ANY RANGE; only in CQC should we be able to beat the BR, this way the BR isnt the all powerful gun it was in Halo 3 and the Ar can be useful again. You keep talking about skill but a skilled player would still be able to throw a well placed nade and one shot the person using the AR.
> > > > No you don’t get it.
> > > >
> > > > Halo CE’s weapons were unbalanced but the GAME was balanced as a whole.
> > > >
> > > > If you go out to balance the weapons against eachother you will get a boring game that is unbalanced by other factors.
> > > >
> > > > People seem to focus so much on the guns themselves being balanced rather than weapon placement, movement mechanics and vehicles.
> > >
> > > Oh and btw my Idea of balance is,
> > >
> > > Higher the skill the required the bigger the reward.
> > >
> > > So what you are saying is you want the BR to lose to the Assault Rifle at close Range even though the Skill gap between the weapon are miles apart? yet you want the less skilled ( if any skilled ) weapon want to be the easy victor?
> > >
> > > I’m sorry but -Yoink-.
> > >
> > > ( PS: I don’t play MLG playlists nor do i play anything MLG in anyway, I have just been playing Halo since 01 )
> >
> >
> >
> > ANYONE Could get used to the BR in a couple of months, and what your suggesting is that it should be the all around amazing gun that it was in Halo 3, and that is not BALANCE
> >
> >
> >
> > what your suggesting is that we return to halo 3 where the AR is useless to the BR in EVERY WAY
> >
> > Aiming and shooting doesnt offer much of a skill gap, which is why MANY people think that the BR in halo 3 was overpowered and the game balanced tipped off.
> >
> > What im suggesting is that the Ar should have some use and EVERY WEAPON be usefull and fill its niche
>
> I’m sorry but the more harder the weapon is to master then the greater the rewards should for mastering it.
>
> So me just jumping onto a halo game for the first time ever into multiplayer then pwning a guy who has been playing for years with my full auto and him trying to use a skill based precision weapon is balance?
>
> Your mind has been twisted by the trailers of video games boy.
>
> People say battlefield is a very balanced game, I disagree since the majority of people always use a Fully automatic weapon, that takes low skill to use, effective at all ranges and outshines other weapons in their own niche.
>
> Developers use the word " balance " to lure in new people at the thought that they can pick up any weapon and have the chance at owning with it.
I never said we should outplay the BR with the Ar at ANY RANGE; only in CQC should we be able to beat the BR, this way the BR isnt the all powerful gun it was in Halo 3 and the Ar can be useful again. You keep talking about skill but a skilled player would still be able to throw a well placed nade and one shot the person using the AR.
> > > > Sorry, you don’t understand balance.
> > > >
> > > > 343 should look to Halo CE’s balance if they want Halo 4 to be good. A weapon’s potential effectiveness should be determined by how difficult it is to use a weapon, e.g. the sniper rifle, CE pistol, etc.
> > >
> > > No offense but your letting nostalgia get the better of you.
> > >
> > > CE wasnt in ANY WAY BALANCED it was FUN but not BALANCED
> > >
> > > The pistol was amazingly OVERPOWERED, 3-shot kill anywhere on the map and it wasnt hard at all to use
> >
> > No, you’re wrong.
> >
> > 3 shot kills were really difficult and rare, even the top pros wouldn’t be getting them too often. To add to that, they were even harder the longer the shot was because leading it was so much harder. If you really think it wasn’t hard to use at all you need to do a quick reality check.
> >
> > Also, the other weapons were powerful as well. It’s not like there was the CE pistol and then everything else was weak as Yoink! like in Reach. It would take a lot of skill to outgun an AR at close range with a pistol, but the point was that if you were good it was possible. That’s why CE is more fun than Reach, it’s not a game of rock paper scissors.
> >
> > Clovenwolf, it sounds like you’re god at Halo. I’d love to see your stats, since you’re probably a 50 in MLG with a 4.0 K/D. /s
>
> lol no way in hell am i god in halo
>
> i see your point about leading shot (forgot about the concept of hitscan) however since Halo CE was not exposed to Xbox Live we cannot say this is balanced keeping Online play on the Xbox in mind. This is the same reason Ce’s multiplayer wasnt remade in the Anniversary.
Again, not a good argument. You can easily make a gun difficult to use at all ranges even if it’s hitscan.
Imagine if they made the pistol similar to the Reach sniper, except a 3sk at minimum. All you have to do is tweak the reticule magnetism and bullet magnetism to make the gun harder to use, hitscan is not an issue.
Balance is about rewarding players who can use a more difficult weapon.
> > > > > Sorry, you don’t understand balance.
> > > > >
> > > > > 343 should look to Halo CE’s balance if they want Halo 4 to be good. A weapon’s potential effectiveness should be determined by how difficult it is to use a weapon, e.g. the sniper rifle, CE pistol, etc.
> > > >
> > > > No offense but your letting nostalgia get the better of you.
> > > >
> > > > CE wasnt in ANY WAY BALANCED it was FUN but not BALANCED
> > > >
> > > > The pistol was amazingly OVERPOWERED, 3-shot kill anywhere on the map and it wasnt hard at all to use
> > >
> > > No, you’re wrong.
> > >
> > > 3 shot kills were really difficult and rare, even the top pros wouldn’t be getting them too often. To add to that, they were even harder the longer the shot was because leading it was so much harder. If you really think it wasn’t hard to use at all you need to do a quick reality check.
> > >
> > > Also, the other weapons were powerful as well. It’s not like there was the CE pistol and then everything else was weak as Yoink! like in Reach. It would take a lot of skill to outgun an AR at close range with a pistol, but the point was that if you were good it was possible. That’s why CE is more fun than Reach, it’s not a game of rock paper scissors.
> > >
> > > Clovenwolf, it sounds like you’re god at Halo. I’d love to see your stats, since you’re probably a 50 in MLG with a 4.0 K/D. /s
> >
> > lol no way in hell am i god in halo
> >
> > i see your point about leading shot (forgot about the concept of hitscan) however since Halo CE was not exposed to Xbox Live we cannot say this is balanced keeping Online play on the Xbox in mind. This is the same reason Ce’s multiplayer wasnt remade in the Anniversary.
>
> Again, not a good argument. You can easily make a gun difficult to use at all ranges even if it’s hitscan.
>
> Imagine if they made the pistol similar to the Reach sniper, except a 3sk at minimum. All you have to do is tweak the reticule magnetism and bullet magnetism to make the gun harder to use, hitscan is not an issue.
>
> Balance is about rewarding players who use a more difficult weapon.
Okay, lets say 343i made the pistol was as difficult to use as no-scoping the sniper, how would that be a good thing? How does making a weapon you spawn with, super difficult to use a good thing. That would effectively make that weapon useless, (since in this day and age people want an easy way to kill). Compared to the BR, SMG, and AR the pistol would be useless and would not be considered a viable option, (due to the weapon being very hard to use)
> > > > > > Sorry, you don’t understand balance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 343 should look to Halo CE’s balance if they want Halo 4 to be good. A weapon’s potential effectiveness should be determined by how difficult it is to use a weapon, e.g. the sniper rifle, CE pistol, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > No offense but your letting nostalgia get the better of you.
> > > > >
> > > > > CE wasnt in ANY WAY BALANCED it was FUN but not BALANCED
> > > > >
> > > > > The pistol was amazingly OVERPOWERED, 3-shot kill anywhere on the map and it wasnt hard at all to use
> > > >
> > > > No, you’re wrong.
> > > >
> > > > 3 shot kills were really difficult and rare, even the top pros wouldn’t be getting them too often. To add to that, they were even harder the longer the shot was because leading it was so much harder. If you really think it wasn’t hard to use at all you need to do a quick reality check.
> > > >
> > > > Also, the other weapons were powerful as well. It’s not like there was the CE pistol and then everything else was weak as Yoink! like in Reach. It would take a lot of skill to outgun an AR at close range with a pistol, but the point was that if you were good it was possible. That’s why CE is more fun than Reach, it’s not a game of rock paper scissors.
> > > >
> > > > Clovenwolf, it sounds like you’re god at Halo. I’d love to see your stats, since you’re probably a 50 in MLG with a 4.0 K/D. /s
> > >
> > > lol no way in hell am i god in halo
> > >
> > > i see your point about leading shot (forgot about the concept of hitscan) however since Halo CE was not exposed to Xbox Live we cannot say this is balanced keeping Online play on the Xbox in mind. This is the same reason Ce’s multiplayer wasnt remade in the Anniversary.
> >
> > Again, not a good argument. You can easily make a gun difficult to use at all ranges even if it’s hitscan.
> >
> > Imagine if they made the pistol similar to the Reach sniper, except a 3sk at minimum. All you have to do is tweak the reticule magnetism and bullet magnetism to make the gun harder to use, hitscan is not an issue.
> >
> > Balance is about rewarding players who use a more difficult weapon.
>
> Okay, lets say 343i made the pistol was as difficult to use as no-scoping the sniper, how would that be a good thing? How does making a weapon you spawn with, super difficult to use a good thing. That would effectively make that weapon useless, (since in this day and age people want an easy way to kill). Compared to the BR, SMG, and AR the pistol would be useless and would not be considered a viable option, (due to the weapon being very hard to use)
That was an extreme example so you would understand the concept. Obviously it won’t be quite as difficult as no-scoping, but it would be difficult enough that 3sk would be relatively rare.
You’re right, it wouldn’t work with the current pistol because it wouldn’t make sense. The Reach pistol has a slow kill time, it wouldn’t be correct to make a weapon with a slow kill time difficult to use. However, if they made it a 3sk and made it harder to use it would be perfect. You have to realize that even a 5sk or 6sk with a CE pistol is a relatively quick kill. The thing that makes it a good weapon is because of the skill gap. It’s not THAT hard to be able to 6 shot people, but it’s really difficult to 3 shot. This allows players to come back in a gunfight when they’re shots down by pulling out clutch 3 shots, it’s not a matter of who sees who first, but rather who is better.
no in the hands of a good player the br should always beat the assault rife in the hands of a bad player the br should always lost to the assault rifle